In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson speaks with facilitation experts Tammy Shubat and Robin Cory, both Voltage Control certification alumni. Tammy shares her journey from leadership to facilitation, focusing on relationship-building and creating safe spaces for bold participation. Robin discusses her facilitation approach, inspired by Tammy, and emphasizes thoughtful session design to foster engagement and creativity. Together, they explore the challenges and opportunities in the nonprofit sector, highlighting the importance of collaboration, purposeful gatherings, and centering relationships to drive meaningful change within mission-driven organizations.

Show Highlights

[00:01:33] First Sparks of Facilitation
[00:06:42] Tools, Techniques, and Intuition
[00:10:30] “Wreck and Rebuild” and Improv Activities
[00:13:54] Designing for Bold Thinking
[00:21:14] Honoring People and Setting the Stage
[00:25:44] Warming Up for Bold Participation
[00:28:38] Head vs. Heart: Actions and Connections
[00:34:09] Future Challenges: Collaboration and Collective Impact

Links | Resources

Tammy on Linkedin

Robin on Linkedin

About the Guest

Tammy has worked in health promotion and education for more than 22 years, and specifically for the last 17 years with Ophea, advancing health and well-being in Ontario schools. Currently in the Director of Partnerships and Public Affairs role, Tammy aligns provincial and national partners, business development opportunities, and strategic objectives for Ophea, and for the sector at large. With a practice in grounded in social justice and anti-oppressive approaches in education, Tammy is a proud member of the 2SLGBTQ community, an advocate, and a mum.

Robin Cory is a strategist, facilitator, and coach dedicated to turning bold ideas into meaningful action. With over 20 years of experience, Robin has worked alongside non-profits, foundations, and collaboratives across Canada to sharpen their strategies and deepen their impact.  

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

Subscribe to Podcast

Engage Control The Room

Voltage Control on the Web
Contact Voltage Control

Transcript

Douglas:

Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab podcast where I speak with Voltage Control certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method agnostic approach so you can enjoy a wide range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances of enabling meaningful group experiences. This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening. If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our Facilitation lab community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in real time with peers.

Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab and if you’d like to learn more about our 12-week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com. Today I’m with Tammy Shubat and Robin Cory. Tammy is at Ophea where she facilitates and enables partnerships and public affairs for the organization and for the education sector more broadly to advance the health and well-being of kids in schools across the province of Ontario. Robin leads a strategy and facilitation practice that helps mission-driven organizations at pivotal moments gain strategic clarity, make powerful decisions, and take bold action. Welcome to the show.

Robin:

It’s such a treat to be here. Thanks, Douglas.

Tammy:

So happy to be here with you both.

Douglas:

Yeah, it’s a treat for me too because I usually don’t have two people on at the same time. So I get two alumni in the room with me today. I’m so excited to dive in with both of you, to hear both your stories and it’s an intertwined story because you work so closely together. You do a lot together, so it’ll be inspiring to hear how you collaborate. So let’s start at the beginning. Could you each share the moment of facilitation that first caught your attention?

Robin:

My mother was really a born facilitator. As a child, I got to witness her in lots of community settings, whether it was advocating for a new school in our neighborhood or leading community meetings or door-to-door fundraising. So I really saw her in action and left me really inspired. And as I went through school, high school in particular, I gravitated towards roles where I got to lead groups and influence people and work in teams and it really gave me a buzz. And I’ve since then continued through university and through jobs to be leaning into that passion.

Tammy:

I love that, Robin. I feel like I would’ve probably in my earlier life self-identified as a leader, but maybe not as a facilitator. And I think probably my spark was probably seeing you facilitate for the first time when you came to Ophea about 10 years ago to sort lead that initial strategy exercise. I remember just being so taken by your approaches and how you engaged people and how far you sort of pushed the questions that you were sort of asking us. And so I would say you were my spark to the practice of facilitation as something that I wanted to maybe embed in my own practice in some way.

Robin:

And our kind of journey together has been such a fun one. And it’s so interesting to hear you reflect on that because really today we operate as peers and spend so much time co-facilitating that it’s hard to even imagine that you are inspired by me, because I’m so very inspired by you in many, many ways.

Douglas:

Tammy, in your alumni story, you mentioned previously identifying more as a leader versus a facilitator. Oftentimes, I’ve seen that come down to how language and vocabulary influence how we self-identify. When you reflect back to those days of just having that lens of leadership, how much of what you were already doing was rooted in some of these beliefs and philosophies that we now hold dearly in facilitation?

Tammy:

It’s a great question, Douglas, and I wish I could be kinder to myself because I’ll be honest and say I think my, I really loved in my earlier days, having the room and having the space and I always thought I had something so great to say. And I remember even thinking to myself, “I can’t wait for this person to stop talking so I can say what I have to say because it’s so much better than what that person has to say.” So I think it’s actually taken a fair bit of growth in my own learning trajectory to see my role differently, which is perhaps less as the contributor or the most powerful voice in the room, but rather as the person who has the ability to perhaps tease out a variety of perspectives that can enrich the conversation in a more full way. So I would say my early days were not exemplary. They were perhaps great ground for learning though. And I’m sure a few people put me in my place, which is wonderful and has gotten me to maybe where I am now.

Robin:

Admittedly, I can relate to that feeling certainly. And I also think, Tammy, when I think about you in a room, what I think is actually such a powerful part of the way that you facilitate is that you hold the space and you invite people’s contribution in such a sort of warm and welcoming and inclusive way, but at the same time, you actually aren’t afraid to assert a point of view. And I think sometimes in facilitation it’s this dance between really creating space for others but also offering perspectives and questions and ideas that are going to move the conversation forward. And I feel like you do that selectively and intentionally and it really does indeed, I think move the conversation forward.

Tammy:

Thank you for that. And I love that point in the sense that I think the idea of a neutral facilitator is false. None of us are. And actually in fact, even if we’re pretending to really just facilitate the voices in the room, we’ve designed the facilitation, you obviously have a desired outcome. So I think I appreciate that and I think I appreciate that perspective around the dance that that is. And so how do you strike that sort of balance in the spaces that you create versus where you may be contributing more pointedly?

Douglas:

That makes me curious, do you have tools and techniques that you rely on or is it intuition that enables that? What’s helping you determine when to step back or when to step forward? When is my opinion valuable to the group? When is it disruptive?

Tammy:

I love that question. So there’s a lot of intuition in how I would operate for sure, but I think I’m always watching for cues and I think for those, for what you’ve just articulated, I tend to prefer in-person facilitation because it allows me to read the room in a really different way than in a virtual facilitation. So in an in-person facilitation, I’m always watching body language, where people are sitting, where they’re looking, if they’re having sidebar conversations, those are all cues to me around somebody in this room has something to say or there’s this underlying feeling of dis-ease.

And so how might I pose a question that allows folks to bubble up what it is might be going on under the surface? I think I struggle a bit more with that with virtual facilitation because I think people use so many tools differently, like the mute function or they’ll go off-screen or I think the strategies for engagement I haven’t fully maybe figured out, but I’m trying to. But yeah, but there’s a fair bit of intuition there in terms of when I might inject my perspective. I don’t know, Robin, how you feel that.

Robin:

Yeah, something I’ve seen you do and I think I try to do as well is potentially frame up a hypothesis. “So based on everything that I’m hearing, it feels like where you are leaning is this.” Or, “Based on everything I understand and know about your organization and your context or your team, it strikes me that Y would be a really healthy and effective path forward.” Let’s say. And then it at least creates that opening for them to say, “Actually, no.” So it’s a hypothesis they can react to or get the feeling of, “Absolutely, yes.” And then that sometimes helps to just move the conversation to the next level. We actually don’t have anything that we need to discuss anymore, we’re actually aligned and clear.

Tammy:

I love when you do that session-effective approach.

Douglas:

Do you recall a time when that happened recently?

Robin:

It’s funny, as Tammy was talking, I was thinking about a session I had yesterday, and actually I don’t think it was the best version of this, but it was an attempt to do this and I think it yielded the results I wanted, but I sometimes think the risk is, so what happened yesterday in this conversation I was leading was that I felt like there was a point of alignment where I was trying to distinguish between in my work what an organization might think of as their ultimate impact, which is kind of that big lofty goal they’re driving towards, but they’re not likely to be able to hold themselves accountable for it, and hunger and homelessness, that kind of thing. Versus the intended impact, so what are the things that they can directly contribute to and hold themselves accountable to or for?

And in this moment yesterday I kind of declared, like I said, “I think we can all agree that your organization is not likely to drive or be able to hold yourself accountable to this particular ultimate impact, so let’s talk about what you can hold yourself accountable to.” And they pushed back actually and said, “That’s actually not our operating assumption. We do believe that we can contribute meaningfully to that ultimate goal as big and lofty as it might be.” And that was really helpful for me to hear. It wasn’t a point at which I was going to agree or disagree with that, but it actually really was an important thing for me to know about how that organization relates to that particular goal.

Douglas:

That reminds me of a powerful technique, posing the wrong answer or a prototype for folks to respond to. Oftentimes, if I have a thought, I like to couch it in, “This is probably wrong, but what do you think about it?” Because it makes it safe for them to tear it apart or let them go, “Actually, yeah, that does make sense.”

Tammy:

Totally.

Robin:

Yeah, yeah. Or, “This is here for you to wreck and rebuild.” My partner, Margot loves to say that and I adopt that as well. And that really gives people freedom. Usually they’re like, “No, no, no, we don’t need to fully wreck and rebuild.” But then you can kind of dial back and say, “But we could tweak or change these few things.” And giving people permission to do that I think does create an opening.

Douglas:

Wow, that wrecking and rebuilding is making me think about. Fortunately, an activity that was used as a closer for a recent facilitation lab facilitated by Lori Wilson, also known as fortunately, unfortunately. Unfortunately We is an improv game where participants take turns creating the story together, alternating between positive and negative developments. The first person starts by describing a fortunate event, beginning with the word fortunately, we, the next person follows up with something unfortunately, kind of tearing down the previous thing, starting with unfortunately, then it goes back to fortunately and so on. It’s quick, playful, and challenges everyone to think creatively and stay present.

Robin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

That’s cool.

Robin:

That’s a good one. I really like that. It reminds me a little bit of the pre-mortem where you start with all the things that could go wrong at the beginning of a process as opposed to waiting for the post-mortem at the end of a process. And I think it reveals similar things of how do we preempt or potentially avoid certain things from happening? How do we lay the track or put the conditions in place for this to really be successful?

Tammy:

I think, and even just in both of those examples, sorry, it opens up space for, it is precisely what you folks said around giving people permission to participate in that way where we’re not going to tiptoe around the issues. We will give ourselves permission to actually boldly engage with what we’re going to talk about today or participate and be able to take that risk. So I love that.

Douglas:

Let’s further explore this idea of taking bold risks. What are some of your other favorite ways of doing that?

Tammy:

We talked a little bit about this morning, Robin. It makes me think about maybe just style. I think maybe we set the stage differently, but I think sometimes for me it’s about relationship building with people in the room first to allow for that. So if I’m, for example, facilitating in a space that might have folks with different levels of power within an organization, or the board is there with the staff, and so we’re trying to create something collaborative off the top where they’re able to work together.

So in a recent facilitation that Robin and I did together, we did something arts-based at the beginning. That seemed like a little bit fluffy, but for a lot of the more junior staff who were in the room, they really valued that as a beginning point. It allowed them to become more comfortable in the space and to open up on something that was, I’m going to say maybe lower risk in the moment, but allowed them to take more risks later on during the day. So I think that’s one of the ways. I think Robin, you do a really good job often, perhaps maybe less so with an activity, but more around what are the conditions for participation today. But go ahead.

Robin:

Yeah, no, I agree. I think doing that early work to set the table so that people feel like it is a space where you can be bold and sometimes the boldness comes out of the messiness and the friction, and so how do you make sure that there’s freedom to imagine and to dream. And we used, actually it was in terms of the cascade in that particular session’s design, Tammy did a beautiful job actually in the morning with this particular exercise. It was called Pionki, and it was this really cool thing that they built that looked like a spider. It kind of looked like a mobile if you picture hanging from a crib. And it’s, I think you said a Polish word, and it’s all about harmony and good fortune and interconnecting this with people. And so everybody kind of built their strand of this Pionki as a group and then they had to assemble it. So it actually hung together and worked.

And I thought that was really powerful, because it did let people see where they were coming from and they actually had to discuss something related to the strategy and related to something that they were connected to around Ophea’s work and Ophea’s strategy. As the day followed, we spent some time talking about the context and some of the conditions that might be standing in the way of some of the kinds of outcomes that Ophea is driving toward. And then we actually ended the day, so back to your question, Douglas, about bold, how do you set the stage for people to think boldly? We actually used the deflection point exercise that I learned as a part of the Voltage Control program that allowed people to first start talking about with Ophea’s plans as they’ve been laid, what would be the status quo outcomes? What do they think they could achieve if they continued on the path that they’re on?

Then we talked about what does the bold path look like? So what if you were to times 10 your impact? What if you were to take audacious and transformative steps towards even greater impact? What would that look like? And then we talked about the rockets and the anchors. So what are those things, the rockets that are going to kind of propel you towards the bold path and what are the anchors that have the risk of pulling you down to status quo? And we’re really at the early stages of a strategic planning process with Ophea. So I thought it gave us some really good fodder for what boldness could look like and help us kind of calibrate where people’s thinking are right now. And in some cases we’re going to need to push them further, and in some cases we’re going to be able to, I think, lean into some of the things that people surfaced. Is that fair, Tammy?

Tammy:

Totally. And I think I want give you your flowers for how thoughtfully you designed that particular activity because I think that could be a quick sort of somewhat mechanical activity. But I think Robin put a lot of thought into the design and the questions that would support people in really identifying what truly were some of those bolder opportunities and what actually might hold people back. And I think and really played it, we played it out a fair bit before actually moving into the facilitation. Like, how might people answer this question and how will this sort of play out in the broader facilitation? And I think we were able to sort of stick with that activity for quite a long time and I feel like it really unlocked some of the bigger opportunities and maybe some of the bigger barriers that we’ll face in trying to get there. So it was really powerful.

Douglas:

Robin, hearing her talk about how you just didn’t throw the structure at them has reminded me of your alumni story and how you shared your intention of transitioning from relying on structure to navigating complex dynamics with more ease. I’m hearing that you thought about the people, the questions, and the prompts you need to get the desired reaction. It seems like you’re actually leaning into those dynamics a little more rather than just throwing the structure out there.

Robin:

Yeah, yeah. And that’s part of, I think one of the things that is so helpful about having a co-facilitator, even though Tammy in this case was the client and sort of hired me to do this work, we’ve done so much co-facilitation in the past I think, and Tammy brings that skillset that usually when I’m doing things with her organization, we are co-facilitating it. And so I think that sometimes if I don’t have a Tammy, I do have to kind of just go in on faith and trust that the exercise is going to work well. But what’s nice is the thought partnership of being able to sort of, as Tammy said, sort of test what could this look like with your crowd? How do we think people might answer this? What are some of the things that might come up that I wouldn’t expect? And going into rooms, I do like to have that preview wherever possible of what could happen and how I might be able to get ahead of that.

Tammy:

I think that’s one of your greatest strengths as a facilitator, Robin. I think it’s what you bring to the facilitation process. As someone who’s worked with you for a really long time, I would say there are a lot of folks who have tools and who can just throw a tool out there and facilitate. But I think the thought that Robin puts into the design in advance really is one of her greatest strengths as a facilitator. Because I think I’ve worked with many facilitators who will just sort of throw tools or throw canned exercises into a room based on what they think might be a standard process or a standard outcome that groups are trying to achieve.

But I think the way in which Robin tries to understand context and how a particular question might land with a group of people really brings that extra added value, because when she plays that out and then we actually bring it to the space and it does land in a particular way, it can be really transformational for a group of people versus just what folks might just mechanically go through an exercise. It’s a tremendous value that she brings to that process for sure. I often joke with my colleagues, it’s never easy to work with Robin. It feels like… No, I mean that in a loving way. I’m not looking for easy. It’s like she pushes you and pushes you and asks that next question and, “What if we think about it this way? And what if we think about it that way?” And twists the whole thing up to then move us through what will be a better experience? It’s absolutely worth it, but it’s not easy and that’s a good thing.

Robin:

I still remember when we were planning for last week’s session, we were at a cafe, actually, Douglas, when we were planning it, and Tammy looked at me and she said, “I’m done.”

Douglas:

Tapping out.

Robin:

“I think we got it. I think we got it.”

Douglas:

That’s so good.

Robin:

I do kind of really get into it. Yeah, but I tend to work with partners and clients that are kind of up for it and Tammy most certainly is.

Douglas:

Great point, Tammy. You’re throwing accolades at Robin for bringing this attention and care to what might surface in the room. It’s also important to acknowledge the fact that you value it and you’re embracing and encouraging it and you’re able to articulate insights on the team. There’s a lot of leaders that facilitators might go to and ask the same questions, try to get the same stuff, and either they don’t value it or they don’t have the right observational tendencies or abilities to be able to reflect the important stuff back. And it’s a real gift to have to collaborate with partners like this that can help point out some of the things so that we don’t have to just guess or totally just tune our radar into the moment without any prior knowledge.

Robin:

Yeah, totally. I want to give an example actually, because I think hopefully for listeners, some of the facilitation examples are instructive, but in this particular session just because it was so recent, it’s top of mind. When we talk about the way we set the stage for being able to have people feel connected, in addition to doing that exercise, the art exercise, the other thing that Tammy actually built into the session was that there were two staff members that were hitting their 15 year anniversaries with the organization. And it was a strategy conversation, it was a board staff retreat, but she felt like it was a good moment to actually honor these two staff members.

And so I’ve been to lots of anniversary celebrations of people that hit milestones in workplaces, and this was very unique. What they had actually done was they had, for each of the people had put up on the wall, what’s their catchphrase? What was their core values? What were their favorite places? What were their favorite foods? What were their favorite expressions? And that was all up there as Tammy and other people were kind of saying, acknowledging things right down to if this person were a mascot for the organization, what animal would they be? And what about the fox or what about the raccoon represents them? And admittedly, I was listening, I’m like, “This is long.”

And Tammy knows that I’m all about, “We got 10 minutes. We got 10 minutes.” But I sort of obviously pulled myself back and I thought, “My God, how beautiful is this moment? And how honored do these people feel? And how rare is it to really deeply acknowledge people who have contributed so many years and so much to an organization and have them be seen and appreciated in front of all the people they probably care most about?” This was the board of the organization, this was the full staff of the organization. So really hats off to you, Tammy, because those are the things that I know we didn’t even talk about it in the debrief, but that I think really made for the kind of environment that then enabled us to get to where we got to.

Tammy:

Thank you. I appreciate that so much. I think, and we’ve talked a little bit about this, one of my biggest drivers, or maybe one of my core values is how people feel. How people feel, and also to have people feel something as a result of something that we go through together. And I think whenever there’s a moment, and even if it’s a longer moment, to embed that, I actually think it goes a long way in the rest of the day. So I’m happy to spend the time there. But yeah, thank you. I’ll find your mascot animal, Robin, next time I’ll identify your mascot animal for you.

Robin:

I was hoping, I was hoping.

Tammy:

It’s coming.

Douglas:

Tammy, in your alumni story, you mentioned letting go of control and learning to be present. I’m curious, how’s that journey going and how did it impact how you showed up at this recent session?

Tammy:

That’s a great question. I think I will say that’s a lifelong journey for someone like me, Douglas.

Douglas:

Of course.

Tammy:

I’m an A type personality who enjoys a tremendous amount of control, and I think that’s why I like being front of room, because I’m not at the mercy of how other people are going to run a show. I feel like Robin’s probably the only person I trusted to run a room with. But I think in recent years I’ve had a lot of positive experiences in, I would say more collaborative approaches that leave a little bit to chance because I think there’s always a way to sort of steer it from the sides rather than the center, if that makes sense. So I think in this particular example of this day and that arts-based activity, I didn’t realize how worried I was about how that was going to go or not go.

I spent a stupid amount of time getting materials ready, thinking about how people were going to thread their stories together, thinking about all these little elements for what was really just an introductory activity. I probably spent more time there than I should have, but I think it was because I was leaving so much up to chance in that moment, in that particular activity in the room. And it could have flopped, they could have not been able to pull it off. They could have not wanted to engage, but it didn’t. And I think there’s perhaps a whole bunch of reasons for that. And also we just have a good bunch of people who are willing to take a risk. But to some degree, maybe some of those conversations and the staff accolades and stuff at the beginning maybe set the tone for a space of low enough risk that it was a space of care that we were in.

Robin:

Yeah.

Douglas:

You talked earlier about using art and getting people comfortable and preparing them to be bold. That got me to thinking about how singers will warm up their voices. If they just start to show up and then just start seeing immediately, they might damage their voice or they might just not be ready or capable of doing the things they might demand of their vocal cords. And it’s these transformations and change that takes time and care. And so asking people to be bold and innovative or just behave in ways that aren’t asked to day in, day out is hard without a transformation or a transition.

Robin:

Yeah, it’s funny, I was thinking of a quote that I actually wrote down that Eric, I think it was Eric who said during the Voltage Control training, and he drew it from psychological safety, it sounds like sort of pedagogy. And the quote was, “You need to decrease social friction to increase intellectual friction.” And I think there’s something there about the way in which Tammy’s oriented to forming connections that, and we’ve joked before about Tammy maybe being more the heart and me being more the head. Although I don’t think, I think there’s a strong overlap in our Venn diagrams on that. But I do really try to channel that in designing sessions so that you’re really having people feel connected socially and connected to each other so that we can have sometimes really tough conversations intellectually. And I don’t know if that directly answers your question, but that’s what was sort of sparked for me when you were asking it.

Tammy:

And if I were to maybe amplify that, I would say I think we’re, even if I think about facilitating five or six years ago or in a pre-pandemic context, I think that the world is a bit of a different place now, and I think this desire or need for connectivity is greater maybe than it was before. I think people are increasingly disconnected. People work in their remote work environments, they’re largely connecting online. Sometimes we’re bringing them together in a room and we expect this muscle that they used to have to be ready to go, and it’s not actually.

And so I actually do think it is worthwhile taking a little bit more time in the upfront to set the conditions for everyone to be able to be present and be in the room and contribute in the way that we’re hoping that they will. And I think they crave it, but I don’t think they know how quite, I think. And I notice that there are some generational differences in that as well, there are identity-based differences in how people are able to show up. But I do think now more than ever, there’s a need for us as facilitators to sort of zoom in on that maybe as part of our practice.

Robin:

Yeah. And we didn’t actually say the heart and the head. We talked about people feeling a focus on you, sort of focusing more on connections and me focusing more on actions and decisions. And I think that there is, just apropos to what you just said about the lack of people being physically together, is that I’m finding there’s a lot more work you got to do to get people to the point of making decisions and taking action because they’re not, to your point, doing that, engaging with each other in the same ways with the same regularity and sometimes not about tougher things. So because you’re a box on a screen, you’re just not going to put the energy often into disagreeing.

It’s like, I’ll just be okay with that, or I’ll go off-screen and deal with it elsewhere. Versus when you’re in spaces live, there’s just more friction that happens, like healthy friction and you work that muscle of working through it. So I think as facilitators, it puts more of an onus on investing the time and energy in doing some of that. And I have to hold back my desire to quickly get to decisions and actions and do more of that, making sure the ground is fertile for that.

Tammy:

If I were to give a nod to one, I’m going to say approach that really helped me during the cert was the e-learning course on a narrative futures design. And so I think that’s an approach that has served me as a facilitator, I think, in thinking about this moment and the disconnection that folks are experiencing. And it really opens up the space to dream in a way that perhaps other approaches haven’t. And so I’ve really enjoyed utilizing that, especially if we’re doing sort of forward-thinking work and as opposed to designing to solve a problem. Let’s imagine the desired state, not with all of the obstacles or barriers sort of discourse that we would typically use when we facilitate. So I think that is one particular approach that supports dreaming and connection and these sort of approaches that I think really serve having people show up in a space in a particular way.

Robin:

And Tammy, you said, I remember after because that was one of the electives in our Voltage Control course, and I remember afterwards you were saying that you’ve been finding it particularly effective with young people.

Tammy:

Yeah, yeah, because I think if we think about generational impacts of the pandemic or even just sort of where we’re at in the world, I think there’s certain generations of young people that you speak to that maybe don’t dream or that possibility of dreaming has sort of gone away. The perception of the future is not so great, but if you ask them to, they’re very capable, but I think no one’s asking them to. They’re always caught in these conversations about these really dire social issues or these moments that we’re in as opposed to how might we dream or imagine the world that we want to be in and contributing to.

Robin:

Yeah, and one of the things I know that has resonated both with Tammy and me that came out of our Voltage Control conversations and training is this idea of the spaces we create being these temporary worlds, I think is how you all talk about it. And so to that point about dreaming, we have the privilege as facilitators to be able to create this world, this space where people can do things that they don’t do outside of the room. And if we do it well, that creates an opening for people to connect in different ways, to think together in different ways, to potentially lead to different kinds of results than they can have. And the practice of operating in this temporary space potentially in new ways, maybe more creative, maybe more silly, maybe more vulnerable ways can then carry over if we do it well into other environments.

And I think that what I’m finding in this moment, particularly working in the nonprofit sector where the virtual work has remained, I think more so than in corporate settings where people are going back to work more days of the week, I’m finding that the moments where I get the opportunity to lead staff sessions or bring teams together around strategy conversations are some of the rarest in-person moments they have. They’re just precious moments. And so I feel like there’s a privilege, but there’s also responsibility in making sure with these rare moments where people are together in the same room, that we’re not just checking the box around, have we come up with the right strategic priorities? But we’re really maximizing that time to, usually organizations have lots of different goals that they’re packing in to what they want to achieve in a single day or a single retreat.

Tammy:

What I tend to try to do with that one, Robin, just around this idea of this temporary world that we’ve created is if I’ve intentionally sort of done that at the beginning, I always try to end with what of this world would you like to take forward with you in your day to day? Because I think although these moments are rare, I would like for that way of being or existing or engaging to be less rare for folks. So what is it of what we created in that moment that they would like to embed in their practice or in their regular meetings or in their day-to-day? Because I think that is the culture shifting stuff that an individual touch point can sort of have in the future.

Robin:

What a great prompt. I love that.

Douglas:

Let’s point our attention toward the future and hear about the challenges and opportunities you’re most energized to take on.

Robin:

I think that the challenge that I am probably, as Tammy knows, spending the most time thinking about, is really about how to more intentionally, maybe more creatively, maybe more effectively be able to bring multiple stakeholders, organizations, groups together that can align around shared goals and need to really chart a course towards achieving them. And I think in this moment there, we kind of had a heyday of collective impact a decade ago where I think people really were drawing from and leaning on that pedagogy. And I feel like there’s still collaborative work, there’s still collective work, but I feel like there isn’t as much as is needed to address the complex issues that we face.

And I’m really clear we’re not going to solve some of the big intractable things that we’re, or seemingly intractable things that we’re faced with on any dimension, homelessness, climate, food insecurity, all the things that organizations I work with deal with one organizational strategy at a time. It’s just not going to happen. And so the interplay between different players is what gets me really excited. And how do you create those spaces for innovative thinking and dialogue and alignment around them? So I’m looking for opportunities to do more of that and organizations that want to sort of be together in a sandbox to try on some different ways of working together.

Tammy:

And I think if I were to piggyback off of that, Robin, because we’ve chatted about this a fair bit, and I think we’ve tried through some of our facilitations to do some of that broader sector work, but it’s hard. It’s difficult in this current climate and context. I don’t know if this is true in the US, but in Canada, charities and nonprofits are really struggling. There’s a number of smaller ones that are shutting their doors. There’s a real, I would say, survivability mindset as opposed to a more collaborative mindset or a mindset of abundance where we might all sort of benefit from working more together.

So I think as someone who works within an organization who is pleased to collaborate, it’s been really difficult to even convince funders to put money into a pot for a number of organizations to work together. So I think that continues to maybe be the challenge of the future, but it is certainly the only way to solve the problems that we’re seeking to solve. So I think continuing to, in the absence of really direct pathways to achieving that, what are some of the creative ways that we can pull that off is I think a bit where we’re at in a future state, but it’s definitely, it is a driver. There is no one individual charity or organization that will change the world on the issue that they’re trying to change the world on. It’s not possible.

Robin:

Yeah, and you see this up close with the kind of system level work you do as an organization. So it’s kind of in your DNA to work this way.

Douglas:

Amazing. You’re doing important work, and I’m glad you’re focused on it. I hope you catch the next wave of collaboration and collective work.

Tammy:

Yeah, totally.

Robin:

Yeah. Thanks, Douglas.

Tammy:

Yeah, I hope so.

Douglas:

As we come to a close, I’d like to invite you to leave our listeners with a final thought.

Tammy:

My final thought for listeners would be to reflect on the importance and the value of relationships in the work that we do. And so at the end of the day, we are all in relationships with each other. Some of them are good, some of them are strained, and we’re seeking to enhance those. And without centering our practice on those relationships, I think we will inevitably leave people behind.

Robin:

That resonates for sure. I am a huge Priya Parker fan. The Art of Gathering I know was one of the books we read as a part of this, and my, I guess final thought would be around, for anyone out there that’s gathering people or facilitating conversations or leading meetings, there’s a really simple truth at the heart of her book, which is that you need to start with purpose. And while it seems obvious, so many meetings happen without actually crystallizing why we are coming together. And so starting your with that question of why and what will be different and working backward from that outcome, so you were designing with that why in mind is something I go back to often from her work.

Tammy:

You definitely walk that talk, Robin, because-

Robin:

Thank you.

Tammy:

You definitely asked me that question probably three times in the last three weeks.

Robin:

Thank you for the validation.

Douglas:

Well, it was my pleasure having you on today. It was so great chatting. Hope to see you again soon.

Tammy:

Likewise. Thank you for your time, Douglas and Robin. It’s always a delight to share ideas with you, so thank you.

Robin:

Yeah, same, Tammy. And thanks Douglas, and thanks for the gift that keeps giving of this program.

Douglas:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast. If you enjoy the episode, please leave us a review and be sure to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released. We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog or I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics, and collaboration. voltagecontrol.com.

The post How Can Facilitators Foster Bold Participation and Collaboration in Nonprofit Organizations? appeared first on Voltage Control.

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson engages with Charles Hoskinson, CEO of Input I Output and Co-Founder of Cardano. They delve into themes of facilitation, collaboration, and governance, particularly focusing on Charles’s work in developing a decentralized governance model for Cardano. Charles shares insights from facilitating workshops across 50 countries to draft Cardano’s constitution, emphasizing the importance of communication, trust, and consensus-building. The conversation also explores the impact of historical governance models and modern organizational design on decentralized systems, offering valuable lessons for fostering innovation and collaboration in diverse groups.

Show Highlights

[00:01:56] Talking Stick Artifact
[00:03:13] Decentralized Governance Insights
[00:06:03] Challenges of Governance Creation
[00:8:44] Building Consensus Across Cultures
[00:13:28] The Role of Trust in Transactions
[00:19:32] Failure and Leadership
[00:33:06] Objectivity and Trust
[00:35:00] Working Groups and Community Input
[00:39:35] Future of Decentralized Governance

Links | Resources

Charles on X

Case Study: Facilitating the World’s First Blockchain Ecosystem Constitution

Cardano on the web

About the Guest

Charles Hoskinson is a Colorado-based technology entrepreneur and mathematician. He attended Metropolitan State University of Denver and the University of Colorado Boulder to study analytic number theory before moving into cryptography through industry exposure. His professional experience includes founding three cryptocurrency-related start-ups – Invictus Innovations, Ethereum and IOHK – and he has held a variety of posts in both the public and private sectors. He was the founding chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation’s education committee and established the Cryptocurrency Research Group in 2013 .His current projects focus on educating people about cryptocurrency, being an evangelist for decentralization and making cryptographic tools easier to use for the mainstream. This includes leading the research, design and development of Cardano, a third-generation cryptocurrency that launched in September 2017.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

Subscribe to Podcast

Engage Control The Room

Voltage Control on the Web
Contact Voltage Control

Transcript

Douglas:

Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab podcast where I speak with Voltage Control certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method agnostic approach so you can enjoy a wide range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances of enabling meaningful group experiences. This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening. If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our Facilitation Lab community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in real time with peers. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab and if you’d like to learn more about our twelve-week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com. Today, I’m with Charles Hoskinson, founder of Cardano, co-founder of Ethereum and CEO of Input Output. He’s also a bison rancher, runs a healthcare clinic in Wyoming, serving over 11,000 patients, owns a construction company and takes a keen interest in synthetic biology. Welcome to the show, Charles.

Charles:

It’s great to be here. Doug, how you been?

Douglas:

I’ve been great. I’ve been really looking forward to this conversation because I’m really kind of wowed by the project around the Constitution, and as I was reflecting on this, it brought up some memories for me along the way. Specifically it was, I remember my first visit to the IO offices and you were leading a really engaging tour and at some point you showed us this Native American artifact. I’ve viewed it as a primitive technology for improved conversations. And I’m just curious if you could start off maybe by sharing a little bit about that artifact and what it means to you and how it connects to your philosophy on communication.

Charles:

Yeah, so I got that right here. This is a talking stick, it was used by the Sioux amongst other Great Plains Indians, and basically how it works is whoever has a stick gets to talk and if you talk out of band, they hit you in the head with a stick. That’s why it’s got a bone on it, but I always love having it in the office. I’ve only had to use the talking stick once. I have a lot of artifacts and what’s really cool is that when you come in the office, we have everything from hyperdimensional spaces here that are kind of compressed in a cube to Samurai armor over there. We have the talking stick and a lot of paintings, a lot of sculptures and all of these things. I pick them up because they connect to something that I’m interested in. I have an ant hive in the office where they poured molten aluminum into an ant hive and then they dug it out and cleaned it off.

And it shows you power of complex systems where simple rules apply again and again can actually result in these amazing structures. But the Native American art is some of my favorite. I collect Kachina dolls and I have a lot of various things throughout North America. When you look at governance of the Iroquois or the Cherokee Nation, especially the Iroquois, they had this decentralization about how they made decisions and consensus building behind how they made decisions and almost like a participatory democracy. And it was just really extraordinary that you could think, wow, these guys had to find a way to get along and they had to find a way to communicate even though they would only meet maybe a few times a year, and there was a lot of challenges and difficulties there and no modern technology, yet they were still able to build a stable government.

So there was a lot of lessons there about how do you build a decentralized government? How do you build a government of equals? You don’t have a king or a president, more like a council of elders. And that was something that stuck with me when I learned about it as a teenager and throughout the years I kind of learned all the upgrades and updates to these types of things. And the Maori people over in New Zealand, for example, have a very sophisticated system, they also have a very sophisticated reputation system that’s concept of mana, which is like the amount of credit that you have in society in many different senses. So having traveled through Africa extensively, I also picked up a lot of tribal traditions there. And there’s a lot of really cool interesting things in Asia, especially Central Asia. You spend some time in Mongolia and you see how they made decisions and they pull these things together.

It’s really sophisticated for the technology that they had. So I always wanted to put that into a system and build it. And with Cardano is a great example is Cardano has no executive function. Most governments, they have a judicial branch, a legislative branch, and an executive branch. And you have one group of people make the laws, one group of people that execute everything and one group of people interpret it whether everybody else is being honest. Well, with Cardano, we have a pseudo judicial function, it’s the Constitutional Committee and we have very strong legislative function, but there is no president, there is no executive branch, there are no bureaucracies or things. You have members-based organizations, these other things, but they’re voluntary and they have no monopoly over power and they can be fired at any time and these types of things.

So it’s an interesting experiment because if you don’t have a strong executive function, then everything has to come from the bottom up instead of the top down in the way that the system operates, which is not really what people tend to think when they think of effective governance or they think of a strong government or a government that’s highly efficient. But yet there are many examples like Switzerland for example, with its Confederacy structure or other countries where this has worked. And there’s organizational design examples where that works. Like Holacracy is probably the most prominent example of that, and Sociocracy is another where that could work.

So we were highly inspired by a lot of these different concepts and we worked through them and we tried to put something together and the single hardest part is bootstrap, which is why you guys came in because we had this issue of how do you build consensus and consent when you have no incumbent decision system. In America, we have this concept of a vote and we have a concept of a voter, and it’s pretty clear how to do that. So when you want to elect a president or elect a senator or a congressman or a governor, you know how to do that. Well, what if you don’t have a concept of a voter and you don’t have a well-established consent system or a Constitution, how do you get to America from nothing? And that was kind of where we were at.

So we thought workshops were a super cool idea and we needed facilitators, and that’s how I met you guys. And we had workshops all across the world, 50 countries, 65 workshops just for the Constitution and a lot of other workshops for CIP 1694. And the first one was here in the office. And I remember that day very clearly, because everybody’s very skeptical. They’re like, “You’re just not going to pull this off. It’s going to descend it to chaos and everybody’s going to vote against it and it’ll get bike shedded.” And it was a tremendous exercise and building of consensus.

Douglas:

Why do you think there was so much skepticism?

Charles:

Well, because it depends on your philosophical beliefs about humanity. And unfortunately, when you have a strong executive function and you live in a very cynical society, and we are in the age of cynicism, when my grandfather was growing up, my grandfather lived in a very optimistic time in America. And so when John F. Kennedy said, “We will go to the moon.” Everybody believed him because like, “Oh yeah, the government always does it. They’ll figure it out.” Because this is the government that when FDR said, “Hey, I need you to go build the world’s largest office building in a swamp and you have six months to do it.” Leslie Groves said, “You got it, sir.” And he went and built the Pentagon. So there was this can-do spirit of, “We don’t really know how to do it, but we’re just going to figure it out and it’s going to get done.”

And people had a great degree of confidence in the government’s ability to deliver. And then over time, this postmodernism kind of leaked its way into society and now there’s a skepticism that no matter what, it’s never going to be as good as you think it is. It’s probably not going to happen. Even if it does happen, there’s something wrong with it. So a great example is that when William Shatner went to space, this was like a Rorschach’s test for generations. So the older people who grew up watching him on Star Trek, they were like, “That’s the coolest thing in the world. That’s so amazing. Wow, Captain Kirk finally made it to space.” They felt some pride because it’s like a hero that they grew up with. And he finally got to go to space and do that thing. And then the younger generation said, “Oh, global warming this, and it’s a waste of that. And why did you send a 90-year-old fat guy to space and just a marketing stunt and…”

It’s the exact same set of facts, exact same set of people and two radically different interpretations of that event. So when you look at the Cardano governance to work, what you’re really saying under the hood is, “Okay, well, here’s what’s going to happen, people who have never met each other from all over the world, different languages, cultures, different perspectives, different socioeconomic classes are going to come together and those people who have never met each other from all those differences are going to find a way to set those differences aside and collaborate without compensation on a common product, somehow agree and then produce something that other people get to use, perhaps not them.” And most people when they hear that, they’re like, “Yeah, I don’t think so. We’d have peace in the Middle East if you could pull something off like that.”

But it turned out we had the right thread and it was one of the most challenging things I ever did in my lifetime to kind of come up with some methodologies to bring those types of people together and act as a peacemaker and deal with fights and also just educate people on missing skills of collaboration. It’s very easy to work with people who have been trained to collaborate, even if they’re competitors, even if they’re philosophically opposed to you. There’s ways you communicate, there’s ways that you, there’s a respect behind the communication. So it’s like you think ahead, what do they need to know to do their job? There’s an understanding of how to negotiate and how to disagree without being disagreeable. There’s a lot of moving pieces to people that are well-trained in negotiation and communication and collaboration skills. If people aren’t trained that way, then what ends up happening is the minute that they feel like it’s not going their way, they immediately take all their toys, go home, go to Twitter, complain about it and try to burn everything down and get upset about that.

But if they’re trained in that way, then they use the process and together you kind of eventually get to where you need to be. So a big part of the process was just education and teaching people collaborative skills and teaching people iterative skills and teaching people the art of negotiation and growing people up and managing expectations and saying, “Look, just the very fact we came together and wrote a Constitution, even if it’s not a perfect Constitution, is a monumental achievement because people from 50 countries had to come together and get something done.” And that’s a consensus of those people. And if that process is reused, we can write a significantly better one because everybody has confidence that we can do that, because we know we could come together and get these things done. So the very first one is really a minimum viable product and it’s a trust building product, but once you have that, you have this great foundation to stand on and you can grow from there.

And once people got that in their head that this is a long goal, it’s a long game and it’s not about winning every round of the game, but rather it’s about participating and playing the game and learning and growing from the game, then they got substantially more collaborative. The learned helplessness went away and the cynicism disappeared almost overnight, and then people got excited to roll up their sleeves and get to work and get it done. And boy, it was challenging to get it done, because it’s just so many meetings and so many communications. There was, wee tallied it up, over 5,000 man hours of just deliberation on the Constitution.

Douglas:

There’s also the phenomenon when people build things together, it connects them, it draws them closer, it becomes their artifact. They’ve had some say in some participation in it, so they own it.

Charles:

Yeah. And that’s the most fun of it is that once people get over that hostility and they start working together, then they actually come up with interesting things and they enjoy working together so you don’t have to twist their arms and force them. They’ve made lifelong friends and those delegates that went to the Constitutional Convention, they’re still talking to each other. They’re still friends with each other, they still have those relationships, and a lot of these people are like, “Hey, I grew up in Norway. I never thought I would be best friends with a guy in Senegal or somebody in Cameroon or somebody in Argentina.” It’s not a common thing, and yet now it’s there and you’re on a first name basis. It was really like the United Nations, when you walked in and saw those flags. It was a truly remarkable thing.

Douglas:

It was amazing to see so many groups come together. Pretty impressive really to think about hitting on 50 countries and bringing that much voice to so many people.

Charles:

And you can’t rest on your laurels. The most important part of it is just saying, “Hey, how do we structure this in a way so that we can continue the collaboration?” So if it was just the end all be all, and once we sign the Constitution, we’re done, we all move on, that’s a great achievement. The bigger achievement is an iterative process where year by year people continue to come together, it gets larger and more meaningful, and then you treat it like an open source work project. And what’s really cool is that in a very short period of time, like three to five years, you can probably have the best Constitution ever written because people just keep working on it, they’ll keep thinking about it, they’ll keep beta testing it and adding new capabilities to it, and you can build a lot of sophistication. One of the things that I think modern society has lost is the value of trust.

And I’ll give it an example. I talk about this often. So let’s say you’re doing a real estate transaction and you and your neighbor trust each other. Okay, you have a ranch, they have a ranch, 100 acres, whatever, and you go over there, you talk to them, you have dinner with them, say, “Hey, I want to sell you these 100 acres. I need the cash.” And you’re like, “Yeah, okay, yeah, I’ll buy that. That’s fine.” So you handshake on it and you start putting all the paperwork together and it turns out there’s some issue with it. So how do you solve that issue? Trust the guy. So you go over and say, “Hey, I have this issue, blah, blah, blah.” He say, “Oh yeah, don’t worry about it. I’ll fix that for you.” Okay, you shake hands, you’re done. Buy the land.

Okay, so then let’s say you hate your neighbor. You absolutely detest this person. You have no relationship. Same piece of land, same transaction. So the facts and circumstances are identical, but when you go to buy the land and first thing that happens, you get a lawyer, because you don’t trust him, he gets a lawyer, because he doesn’t trust you, you negotiated out this contract, takes a lot of legal work. Then halfway through you run into that same issue. Then all of a sudden you’re in litigation and you’re suing each other. It takes two, three years to resolve a litigation. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, depends on the nature of the litigation. And then at the end of the day, you close the deal, you get the land, the outcome is the same. The difference is I had beer and steak with him, shook his hand and we got it sorted and I spent $100,000 or whatever you bought the acres for.

And the other one, I hate his guts. I spent two to three years to close the transaction and millions of dollars. And the only difference, the only delta between those two realities is trust. That’s it. So when you build systems that over time produce trust, what ends up happening with that is you create a momentum where you can do remarkable work quickly and get things done quickly. And you’ll notice that the ratio of organizational design to trust, the historical ratio of this, where high trust things tend to have low bureaucracy and low trust things tend to have high bureaucracy, because you don’t need the bureaucracy. The bureaucracy’s purpose is to de-risk. And if you trust everybody, then you know that even if some mistake happens, that person’s got your back and he or she’s going to go and take care of you and figure that out. So you don’t need layers and layers and layers of accountability and audit and oversight and this department and this manager and this manager and that.

So look at NASA in the ’60s versus NASA today. So NASA in the ’60s, there was a political mandate, move fast and break things. So even when astronauts died, like when that terrible Apollo disaster happened and the astronauts burnt to death in the capsule, there was an understanding that NASA was going to get this done, and so they just let them be NASA and they moved forward. Then after Challenger in Columbia, it badly damaged the reputation of NASA and it changed the culture so that we can never have a failure, which meant they had redundancy after redundancy, redundancy after redundancy, and that culture was so restrictive, it’d take 20 years to do anything and it’d always be $5 billion. Then SpaceX comes along and you have a culture where people are like, “We trust the leader. He’s going to take us to Mars. Everybody’s aligned with the mission and if we break some things along the way, it’s encouraged.”

So when the rockets blew up, the Falcon 9s and Musk was right there on the beach with these guys collecting pieces of rocket right off the beaches. And Starship is a phenomenal example of that where you see blow up all the time and they make this exponential progress on the platform, because they’re totally comfortable as a culture losing two or three Starships a year or four Starships a year, but they know that within five years that’s going to be a productized platform. You tried this with NASA, they’ve tried it for the last 20 years, they haven’t been able to match it. So culture of trust is what gets you there. When I went to the SpaceX facility in Hawthorne, they’re building a rocket every two days, a full rocket every two days. It’s just, I’ve never seen anything like it. And everybody just works as a team, they communicate extremely well. It’s very horizontal and structure, so there’s not this high vertical bureaucracy, just everybody has a domain and there’s a lot of admiration and respect there.

So I really admire organizations that figure out how to inculcate that, develop that, and I think good systems produce trust over time. People just believe it’s going to work. Chinese people trust the Chinese government. It’s a really weird thing. We Americans, we look at it, we say, “Well, China’s a dystopian hellscape because, they have social credit and these other things.” Well, when they look at the approval rating of Xi or these other people from people rank-and-file China, most of them believe in the next 10 years, China will be more progressed, more prosperous and more powerful than the last 10 years, and that will be shared adequately with the people of China because gone from nothing in the 1970s where people would starve to death on a pretty regular basis to one of the world’s greatest superpowers, and they did this decade after decade after decade.

So whatever they’re doing in that system, it’s producing trust in its citizens for that. And so trust doesn’t necessarily equate to our notion of honesty and our notion of morality or our notion of ethics. Trust just basically means that for whatever the system is intended to do, you over time start believing it’s probably going to do that and it’s going to do it well and efficiently and it’s going to do it more likely than not to my satisfaction. You might disagree with that system or disagree with the methods, but that’s the thing. And blockchain is much the same. It’s a high trust system, and the number one thing for blockchains is not market utilization and TVL or any of the things, it’s the trust in it, which is why Bitcoin is still number one. It’s the most trusted asset on the planet, even though it has seven transactions a second and it takes an hour for finality, and there’s not really strong smart contracts or any of these things. It’s the trust that makes Bitcoin so powerful.

Douglas:

Yeah, it’s interesting. I think you hit on something that is a little in my mind, differentiated from trust, which is the ability to allow failure. Leaders that when something goes wrong, freak out and treat it as a anomaly and something that’s really, really bad, you create a phenomenon where no one wants to mention that things are going poorly and then that leads to more catastrophic failures because we can’t even surface the small ones.

Charles:

Yeah.

Douglas:

And I think this gets into Amy C. Edmondson’s work around psychological safety. It’s like, are we fearful to even talk about things that are not going to plan? Because teams that can talk about these things and surface stuff and fail forward, to your point, they move a lot faster, because they’re making big, bold discoveries.

Charles:

But that’s the trust issue at its core too, because at the end of the day, you don’t trust the leadership to protect your interests. You know you’re going to make mistakes and if the response to mistakes are find someone to blame and kill them, that’s a very different environment than these leaders historically, they might yell at me for it, but at the end of the day, they’re not going to fire me or prevent or destroy my career. We understand part of the business is failure, and when you’re a leader, you have to clearly understand and articulate what your tolerance is for your product and for your endeavor to failure, you have to put those rules out there. And there are some cases where failure is not an option. The aerospace industry is a great example of that. Failure translates to what we just saw in Washington, D.C. with a Blackhawk helicopter crashing into a passenger jet. That’s somebody’s children. It’s one of the most tragic and horrible circumstances, and every single person, they feel sick to their stomach if they’re connected to it and they say, “This is the worst day of my life.”

That’s failure where it’s not an option and you can’t have a culture that says, “Well, that’ll happen every now and then, but in general, we’re getting it done.” But in other systems like agile prototyping or aerospace prototyping or other things, when you’re dealing with a group of people where they’re deeply inspired and they’re willing to encumber risk and they sign up for that, like the test pilots testing supersonic aircraft or these types of things, and they died all the time, it didn’t matter because they signed up for that and they were all in the same boat. They were explorers in a certain dimension and that culture permitted that to exist. So really you have to ask what tolerance for failure do you have and how does the organization respond to failure? I think the Navy did a phenomenal job with the submarine programs. They had the Thresher and the Scorpion, and both of those were lost because of poor design and accidents.

And so they responded by saying, “Look, we’re not going to go and punish every admiral and go and yell at the submarine companies or anything. We’re just going to create a program of excellence.” It’s called SUBSAFE. Actually, the Navy had to go and teach NASA after Challenger how to build stuff. So after Challenger happened, the Navy came in and they say, “If you’re actually going to build spacecraft, this is the program you have to follow.” And SUBSAFE is a really rigorous way of constructing submarines. Since the Navy did it, I think they’ve only lost one submarine the entire history and they had hundreds before, and that was the one. So every system has to be upfront with those expectations and then you build a culture accordingly. And then there’s, what do you do when failure occurs? Because failure does happen and do people feel like they’re going to be treated fairly or do people feel like the exercise is more about subscribing blame?

And this is the dark side of NASA. When failure happens, especially with Challenger, the game was not to admit it, but rather hide it and find ways to bury it in the guts of something. And Feynman and others had to dig it out with a presidential commission, but eventually they figured it out. But bad cultures, they tend to hide enough and make things oblique, whereas good cultures, people proactively search for the truth and they bring it on up and they don’t care about the consequences of the truth, they just want it out there, because they think it makes everybody’s life better and they have the capacity to say they’re sorry. It’s a two-way relationship. Every society has a forgiveness mechanism, a lever of forgiveness that they pull. And in some societies, it’s quite easy. In other ones it’s quite draconian and harsh. Like in China, anytime there’s a financial collapse, they’ll just go execute some of the bankers.

They have these trial, they pull them out and they’re like, “Oh, this guy, mortgage crisis, whatever.” They go execute them, makes them feel better. I guess in other societies, they don’t punish people at all. Like in ours, 2008, there was too big to fail and these guys robbed us of billions of dollars and they got to retire with hundreds of millions of dollars and there was no consequences for anything that they did. So that’s the other side of the pendulum is what a society’s response to these types of things and both a personal liability and a professional liability, and what’s the organizational response to these things? And then there in that structure, you start thinking about, well, how do you build psychological safety if it’s even possible at all? In some cases it’s not.

Douglas:

How do you view building this trust that’s so essential and the safety that’s so essential when you’re talking about distributed teams and you look at the Cardano community, all the folks that were involved in drafting the Constitution, coming from wildly different backgrounds with different interests and goals in mind, different careers. What does trust building look like there? How did that even happen?

Charles:

Well, first and foremost, you have to be willing to let people express themselves without beating them down even if they disagree with you. That’s a huge component of it. And it’s hard at times because sometimes they say things that are just materially not true, and I sometimes struggle with that or they don’t give you the benefit of the doubt when you’ve earned it. If somebody, I’ll give you an example, if every day for two years a person finds someone’s wallet and it’s got some money inside of it and they go out of their way to return it to that person with the money inside of it, and then somebody leaves their wallet in front of you and then they immediately snatch it and say, “Oh, thank God I took it, because you would steal my money.” You’d probably get a little off about that because it’s like, “Well, my track record here indicates something very, very different and you know that I have this track record and you know how I act.”

So you get pretty offended when people accuse you of things like for example, some people with the budget process say, “Well, the only reason Charles is doing this is just to loot and steal all the money from the budget.” And deep down inside they know that that’s a lie, and they know that that’s not what we’re doing. And they know that if we were going to go down that road, we had many opportunities before to structure it in a different way where we could have achieved that end and probably not had any consequences for it. But instead, we acted as good citizens and built a collaborative process and bring people together. So if you respond the wrong way and you respond negatively and harshly, unfortunately those people say it in today’s society, they have no accountability and then they immediately clutch their pearls and play the victim and they make it a David versus Goliath thing.

The very powerful person is picking on this very weak person and they go and try to create sympathy from people who aren’t intimately connected to the situation. So that is one of the issues, and you see that a lot. So many people, they get very panicky or flighty when an event happens. Like we’re having a budget issue right now where the budget process has always been broadcasted roughly the same way, and we say, “Look, the Constitution first, then the product roadmap, then the budget. And the budget’s going to be a proposal and there’s going to be competing proposals and there’ll be a reconciliation step.” So give Intersect and IO some time to put a coalition together and figure out some basic principles and a basic sizing that needs to be done. And by the way, we’re going to do that under NDA or under private groups, because we don’t want intermediate work products to be leaked because it would be an unfair representation for intermediate products to go out there because some of those things are stubs, some of those things, there’s no intention.

Other things, the price of ADA was 25 cents and it just hasn’t been updated, and people think it’s now four times more expensive. And if every single time you do an intermediate work product, it immediately goes to the internet and people freak the hell out and they get super upset and then they take sides and judge you based on that, then nobody will contribute because they don’t want to get attacked and they don’t want to be part of that toxicity. So unfortunately, somebody in that group leaked it, or at least I guess an early draft of things that wasn’t accurate. And now we have a whole bunch of people dogpiling on Twitter doing that, and it diminishes the credibility of the process and then it makes everything we do thereafter look reactive. So even if we do the right thing, “Oh, they only did the right thing, because we went to Twitter and criticized those people.” As opposed to. “They were planning on doing this all the time.”

And I’m not sure exactly how to resolve that. It is a deeply frustrating modern phenomena in politics. Two generations ago for the really serious stuff, nobody thought that the people in Washington would just be so blatantly against the American people. Let’s say there’s nuclear weapons crisis with the Soviet Union like the Cuban Missile Crisis, for example. Eisenhower and Kennedy were talking to each other every day, Republican former president, Democrat president, and 100% of Washington was aligned. And they’re like, “What can we do? How can we help? This is a national security issue. We’re all in the same boat.” Now in Washington, every national security issue, they look at it through the lens of, “How can I gain political power as a result of manipulating this event to my own interest?”

So there’s zero trust in these types of things. If you ever have a meeting with a person who’s politically opposed to you, they don’t have your back. Even common decency’s out the window now. Like Bernie Sanders for example, and Tulsi Gabbard, she gave up her career in the Democrat party. She was a rising star. She could have been president one day as a Democrat. She gave up her career by backing Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton and criticizing Hillary Clinton and how she kind of strong armed the 2016 nomination against Bernie. And Bernie’s probably going to vote against Tulsi running for DNI. It just shows you how far partisan politics have gone. If I know that this person gave up their career to support me and they had integrity and fought hard for something that was important to me, I wouldn’t betray that person, stab them in the back for a job that I knew they were qualified for, but I’m only voting against them because it’s a party line thing. Where’s the good in that?

So when you see a system behave that way, you tend to just lose all trust in it and you start doing pretty extreme things. So it’s a delicate thing and it’s a hard thing and events happen and they make you a little angry at times. And then you’re very disappointed in people and their conduct, especially when they do things a certain way. And at the end of the day, if you have benefit of the doubt, then you realize that even if it’s not a perfect work product, the person’s heart is in the right place and you can work with this person. So if somebody’s heart’s in the right place and they produce something you don’t like, your first response should be just pick up the phone and call them and have a conversation with them because they could be persuaded and you’re both on the same side. You both want the same outcome.

What you do as an adult, you explain, “I think you’re trying to achieve this and this and this is that, right?” They say, “Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m trying to achieve.” Say, “Okay, well here’s the problem with what you’ve proposed, if we go down this road, we’re going to run into A, B and C. And I think if you do choose this alternative, you won’t have A, B and C, but you’ll still achieve the same end.” And then they hear it out and they say, “Oh yeah, actually that makes a lot of sense. I think we’ll go with the thing you’re doing.” Or they’ll disagree and they’ll say, “I thought about the thing you’re doing, but here’s this other thing you had no idea about that I know about and I’m going to tell it to you and that’s why I was forced to do the proposal that I had.” And people say, “Oh yeah, that does kind of make sense.”

So maybe there’s something on your side that you had considered, because you’re not God. You can’t step into somebody’s brain and trust works in both directions. Does the person talking to you respect you enough to listen to you? Does the person talking to you respect you enough to acknowledge that you’re a human being with your own independent ideas and maybe just you have more knowledge about this than they do and that’s the reason why you’re proposing the type of thing. And it goes back to that benefit of the doubt. We live in a society now where people have a hard time conceiving that certain people have access to other information. Like when Trump said COVID was made in a lab, that’s a pretty credible source.

I understand a lot of people, all politics, he’s an evil orange monster and all this stuff. Whatever you think, he is the President of the United States and maybe just the President of the United States is given information we don’t see. He was arrested for that. The whole classified information Mar-a-Lago thing. So the president gets to see stuff we don’t get to see. So if the president says something, especially something very significant like that, it’s a credible source in more cases than not, but we just let our politics get in the way or our personal distaste get in the way, and that’s another big problem. So you have to have objectivity is I guess what I’m getting at and you have to divorce the names and your reactions to the names and the people and where they come from from the conversation, and you have to objectively look at these types of things and then you have to say, “Okay, objectively does the argument and the data make sense?”

And if you are taking things on faith, you have to look at the totality of the person’s track record and say, “Historically in these contexts, have they been reliable or unreliable?” There is no secret in the world that I do not get along with Vitalik Buterin. He has very little respect for me. He thinks I’m less than a piece of dirt on the ground, and there’s a rule in the Ethereum Foundation, they are never allowed to mention Cardano. But let’s say somebody accused Vitalik Buterin embezzling money from the Ethereum Foundation, I wouldn’t believe it unless there was overwhelming evidence for it because I know from his track record, he’s had hundreds of opportunities throughout his career to steal money, to take the easy road, and he’s not motivated by money at all.

I’ve seen it myself working with him, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and say, “Unless there’s overwhelming evidence for that and circumstances for that, it’s probably made up rumor and it’s probably not true.” That doesn’t mean I agree with him or I like him or we even get along, but I can objectively separate the person from the event and say, “Well, what’s my lived experience with it? And also what have I seen through his conduct over the last 10 years?”

Douglas:

I was thinking about the working groups that I observed and how there was this interesting tension around the need and the value for transparency and also this notion of getting content to a point where it was consumable. And so if we wait too long until we perfect it, then the community is getting concerned. It’s hard for them to extend the trust long enough for folks to get things to be presentable and ready. Curious what your thoughts are on this idea of like, “Well, if we want to be transparent, but we also need to get things to a shareable state.”

Charles:

Yeah.

Douglas:

Tell me about that tension there.

Charles:

It depends on the work activity that you’re behind. So if you are doing something that everybody agrees on the outcome, it is really good to share that as soon as humanly possible. Like Ouroboros Leios is a great example of that. It’s a protocol we’re implementing for Cardano, and if we’re successful with it’ll make Cardano probably 100 times faster than what it is right now. That’s awesome. Very, very happy about that. So everybody agrees about the outcome. They say, “Oh, we want it.” Where they disagree is about the process, how to get to that outcome, the resources required, the design, these types of things. So what you do is create a working group, bring as many people as you can together and then publicly broadcast the intermediate work products and then everybody grabbing a shovel and they want that to happen. When you have a process where there are winners and losers in that process, and budgets by definition and political campaigns by definition are winners and losers because if somebody got funded, it’s seldom the case that everybody got funded.

So there’s somebody who eventually gets left off and for that particular person, that’s existential and it’s the most meaningful and important thing in the world and they feel cheated and they feel like it was an unfair process and the process has to be torn down, they were a victim of that process. So when you know ahead of time that people have that type of reaction, the problem with intermediate work products is you’re debating winners and losers sets sets, and the problem is you haven’t made your conscious choice of which one of these you want to bank on, and because of that, you’re going to get the worst of all worlds where you get basically prejudged for things you didn’t even do. What if it’s as simple as Bob just put in a stub for $100 million for development and just left in one company because he hasn’t gotten the final list of it?

Then if I saw that and I was on the other side, “Oh, that one company got all the money and none of us got anything, these guys are terrible and they’re planning on stealing from all of us.” That’s why you got to keep that secret until you’re absolutely certain that you can live with the consequences of the red button, the launch button. And you say, “Okay, it is what it is. We just have to live with it.” The other circumstance is competitive and in some cases your intermediate work products can be stolen by your competitors, and when they get taken, they can be used for their own products and that’s less of an issue in an open source decentralized ecosystem. But it could be an issue if you have a fork of the chain.

Let’s say that there’s a Cardano and a Cardano Classic, or there was Ethereum Classic and there was a Bitcoin Cash, and let’s say you’re working on a new protocol that’s super awesome and you want your ecosystem be first to launch that protocol so that you can basically not lose the fight between these two competing chains that are going after each other. So in those circumstances you don’t share, even though perhaps sharing would be better if you didn’t have a native competitor. The nice part about Cardano is it’s so technologically different from the EVM ecosystem, we don’t have any of those concerns. Nobody’s trying to steal eUTxO or Plutus or Ouroboros.

We’re kind of living in our own world, and even if they want to like Haskell, it’s a weird language what’s going on? It’s not easy for them to do that, and that’s actually means that we can be far more collaborative and far more open with people. And that’s why we have 168 scientists we’ve worked with for the 230 papers we’ve published, and that’s why our code is so open and all the protocols are so open and the prototyping process is so open, there’s just no interest in espionage for that. Whereas maybe you’re a layer two on Ethereum and you’re just exactly the same as all the other layer two neighbors, you’d be a little bit more careful with that and you want to try to create some first mover advantage.

Douglas:

That’s fascinating. I want to come back to the convention and the workshops leading up to it. What impact do you think the facilitative approach made to the final outcome?

Charles:

Everybody entered in with trust, and that’s why the convention worked. It was hard because there was strong disagreements, but because they trusted each other, they were able to converge to a compromised state. If people didn’t enter in with trust, it would just be physically impossible. There’s too much to go against the tides, the cultural stuff, the language stuff, the asymmetries and experience and knowledge and power and money. There’s just too much there, but everybody entered in with trust and that’s the thing that made the difference at the end of the day.

Douglas:

When you think about the future developments around community-driven governance within Cardano or other broader blockchain spaces or contexts, where is it headed? What is the future?

Charles:

We see it. We see it with Metagov over in the Ethereum space. We see it with Tezos, we see it with Polkadot, we see it with Dash and Cardano, and all of these are examples of decentralized governance. In real time, you’re really asking three things. Does the system have three properties, integrity, efficiency and effectiveness? Integrity means you start with a founding intent and does the system preserve that founding intent? So the Constitution is the founding intent of Cardano. Then you have the efficiency, which is how quickly can the system converge to make a decision? Is it a day, a week, a month, a year? And it could be different for different types of decisions like hard forks versus protocol parameter changes or treasury withdrawals. But how quickly does that take? And effectiveness is how good are the decisions you’re making? So if you set an outcome, can you make that outcome?

So for example, we say something like, “We think this budget for 2025 will double the size of Cardano as measured by transaction volume and TVL.” Did it happen? If it did, it’s an effective system because those were the measurement criteria. That’s the outcome we wanted to achieve, we achieved it. So typically you have a governance trilemma where you only get two of the three if you’re good. Sometimes you get all three, but it’s hard. So China is a great case study in efficiency and effectiveness, but no integrity. What I mean by that is from a western perspective, integrity to me means that you don’t persecute minorities. Integrity to me means you protect human rights, integrity to me means you value freedom of commerce and expression. But when I see Jack Ma be disappeared because he disagrees with the government or camps set up in Western China because they had belonged to an ethnic minority or eminent domain used to basically just take people’s land and if they complain, shoot them, that’s not a preservation of human rights and integrity.

On the other hand, gone from a backwater to a superpower in five decades. So it’s a very effective, efficient system upon that optimizing function. Then you have places like Switzerland, which are high integrity. They have rule of law, they protect human rights. No one Swiss thinks, “God, is the government going to purge me?” In fact, they’re more about some of these rights than most western nations and they’re very effective. So effective translates to when they make a decision, it tends to have a good outcome. That’s why they’re one of the richest countries in the world. They’re horrendously inefficient. It takes a long time to make a decision in Switzerland, and Zurich is a great example. If you go to the basement of one of the buildings, they have this beautiful large wooden model of the city of Zurich, and you have to go through these stages of steps.

Whenever you want to build something in Zurich, you have to actually, they’ll add it to the wooden model and the account council will debate it and talk about it. It’ll take 20 years to get a permit to build a skyscraper or to modify something inside Zurich because they say, “Oh, we have like 800 years of legacy with this city. We don’t want to squander it because you’re going to make some pretty building, but it won’t fit in.” So everything in Switzerland operates this way. They think in terms of decades and centuries, and Japan is the same way in certain places where everything is deliberate and takes a long time to get done, but it tends to be very effective. So efficiency goes away. So you typically get two of these things and really bad systems, you don’t have any of them. You’re inefficient, you’re ineffective, and you have no integrity.

A lot of dictatorships end up this way. They start highly effective and highly efficient, and then the dictator gets old and crazy and he has sycophants all around him, and then the efficacy disappears and the efficiency disappears inside the system. We see that with Russia, with Vladimir Putin where he was thinking, “Oh, I have this badass army and they can do all these incredible things.” And they were just straight up lying to him. They were fake armies on paper and fake training on paper and equipment. So when he made a war plan to invade Ukraine on four fronts and try to take the whole country in two weeks, he’s thinking, “Oh, this will be easy because everything I was told is this way.” And it turns out it was a disastrous decision for him because, because they didn’t actually have what they said they had, and that’s why they’ve gotten mired down in this three-year meat grinder, which has killed about 800,000 Russians and 600,000 Ukrainians, 1.4 million people.

It’s a remarkable loss of life. So bad bureaucracy has those types of consequences. It kills people, it slows things down. It’s ineffective. So we’re now assessing Cardano on those three criteria. Once the Constitution’s in place, we have a litmus test for integrity and we have a point to measure and we say, “Did the government ever try to make or make a decision that violated the constitutional intent?” If it did, we lost integrity. If it didn’t, we preserved it. And then you look at things like the budget, the roadmap, and other events like protocol parameter changes, hard forks, and you say, “How long did it take?” That’s your efficiency. And then you look at the outcome of those events and say, “Is the system making good decisions and is Cardano consistently growing in these types of things?” So that’s your efficacy inside the system, and we can measure it year by year.

And what’s cool is you can measure your neighbors too. Like Ethereum for example, when they did the DAO hack, the bailout there, I would argue it broke the integrity of a blockchain. They’re supposed to be irreversible, code is law. They don’t agree. But that’s after they did, that meant that Ethereum now has the option to do that. The same with staking discrimination where they’re getting some other people who approve transactions to be OFAC compliant as validators, and so they can censor the Mempool to remove transactions that are on the OFAC list. So now there’s transaction discrimination. So I remember in the early days at Ethereum, we put up “censorship resistant” out the door, “immutable” out the door. So for me, it’s not an integrity system, but people love that ecosystem. They seem to think that way and they don’t value that. So that can be like China, I guess there’s no coincidence that Vitalik speaks Chinese.

These things are okay. They have a different viewpoint of these types of things. Where Bitcoin, that will never happen. We all know that. They’re hard hardcore people. They have one view, it’s called maximalism, and there’s only one God, it’s Satoshi, and they follow that to the core. So the most important of the three for Bitcoin is integrity. So much so they’re willing to sacrifice any notion of efficacy and efficiency. It takes three to five years to put a major upgrade into Bitcoin with Taproot being the last one in 2021, and they’re debating all these upgrades. But it takes years for those types of things to come in. It takes us months.

And the power of an on-chain government is it allows you to move trade-off windows. So what we’re banking on is we can preserve an integrity like Bitcoin has, but we can move as fast as Ethereum does in terms of upgrades and be that efficient. Then we’re also banking that the wisdom of the crowds will make the decisions we make over time more effective. So over time the budgets will get more effective and over time the product roadmap will get more inclusive and effective for what we need and we’ll see. But if it works out, it’s a great case study in governance models and it’s something to learn from.

Douglas:

So thinking about the community-driven approach to drafting and voting in the constitutional draft, what challenges do you foresee in scaling this approach as you think about bringing in more community members, more ADA holders, more voices?

Charles:

I think that the thing is designed to scale, and we know that because we’ve gone from nothing to 780 DReps. We’ve gone from nothing to 108,000 people participating in governance in some form or fashion, and we’ve done all of that without the network collapsing and actually having to spend hundreds of millions of dollars. That’s a really amazing thing. The workshop is the single most expensive artifact, and I’d like to have it as an ongoing concern, but really for a representative sample of the world, you’re talking about seven of the order of magnitude of about five to 10 million per year. And not just for governance workshops, but also product and budget workshops. So I think they have a place and purpose, especially in areas that are very disenfranchised, that just don’t have native access to the ecosystem and they don’t have the money to travel.

So that’s a model that you pull out and you use. And also when people start developing their own communication channels, like the DReps are starting to all talk to each other and they’re forming coalitions and they are in the same Discord and they have regular meetings and these types of things, that is an organic bottom-up coordination. And once it occurs, then it becomes very efficient. So if you want to percolate information through the entire ecosystem, it’s very straightforward. You just do three, four things and then boom, you’ve talked to half of Cardano. Now innovation also can help. One of the things we’re working on in terms of technology is I really want a Pub/Sub mechanism that when you go ahead and delegate your ADA or your vote to a stake pull operator or to a DRep that you also auto-subscribe in your wallet to their comms channel so those people can push messages to you.

I really think that that would be an amazing feature. And we’ll probably roll something like that over into LACE and then hopefully gradually get into the Cardano protocol. Well, minute you have that, if you’re a DRep or if you’re a stake pool operator, you now have a button to click to talk to every person who trusts you. That’s really powerful, because you don’t know those people. It’s a permissionless system. They could be in Nigeria, they could be in Vietnam and not speak English. They could be anywhere in the world when you really think about it. And when they delegate to you, they’re not giving you their name, their email, or any of these types of things. So having a comms channel where those messages can be pushed, super valuable, because then you know how to reach everybody.

But wait a minute, if everybody, like 70% of the Cardano users are delegating to SPOs, and about 20% right now are delegating to DReps, and that’s growing every day. Once we have those systems in place, just by talking to a few hundred DReps and a few thousand SPOs, you literally can talk to every person in Cardano. That’s the power of networking. So that’s awesome. So you just create a horizontal communication channel for that. And even if you want to coordinate and scale at a level of 10 million people or 100 million people, you now have an effective way to do that. So part of the game is just making sure you have the right comms channels and the right collaborative media workshops. Their primary thing isn’t information discussion. You can do that over Zoom. The primary thing is trust building, because when people actually meet each other and they spend time with each other and they get to know each other, that creates a reality where they’re like, “I now know this person. I now understand where this person is coming from.”

And everything that seemed dramatic and weird, it evaporates away and we’re all reading from the same hymn sheet now. So it’s important that you have in-person touch points on a regular basis in a decentralized thing, because there’s what we call relationship entropy. And so if you don’t meet up, the opposite thing happens over time. You start becoming more suspicious of people, you start having fights with people, and then you stop giving them the benefit of the doubt. So workshops pull people together and they restore the relationships, and then people pull apart organically. So you have to do that on a recurring and regular basis, and we’re trying to figure out how to do that as an ecosystem in a cost-effective way because there’s just a lot of people and there’s a lot going on, but I think it is one of the most important things you can do to keep a decentralized ecosystem cohesive.

Douglas:

Incredible. Well, Charles, we’re coming up on the end here, so just want to say thanks for joining today and really enjoyed the conversation and look forward to seeing you again sometime soon.

Charles:

Absolutely. You’re a permanent member of this ecosystem now, whether you like it or not, because you were part of there at the beginning of governance, and we’re going to do as an ecosystem is keep learning. Minimum viable governance is so exciting because it’s a foundation, it’s not an end, and you can build on that. So now that we have great dirt work and we just put the flat work down, we got the concrete down, we can build one hell of a structure on top of that, because it was pretty thick pad that we poured. So I am real excited and real happy and thank you for everything you do. And I love talking about these topics.

And usually when I do interviews they’re like, “When is the price of ADA going up?” Or, “How do we win against Solana?” Or these things. And getting to talk about the actual collaborative models is phenomenal. And I’d highly recommend you interview Tam Haasen, the president of IO, because this is what she does. She’s super, super good at these things and she’s in love with the idea of building better collaborative models, and it’s always fun to talk about them.

Douglas:

Ooh, yeah, I’d love to. Fantastic. Well, thanks for the recommendation, and again, thanks for coming on the show.

Charles:

Thank you, Doug. Cheers.

Douglas:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review and be sure to subscribe and receive updates when new episodes are released. We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog where I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics, and collaboration. voltagecontrol.com.

The post From Talking Sticks to Blockchain: Revolutionizing Governance Through Collaboration appeared first on Voltage Control.

“It’s so much more beneficial when everyone gives up ownership of ideas and creates something that belongs to the whole group.”- Emilia Åström

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson interviews Emilia Åström, facilitator at Howspace and co-creator of “Perspectives.” Emilia shares her journey from competitive advertising to collaborative facilitation, inspired by her experience at Hyper Island. They discuss the transformative power of facilitation in fostering inclusive, innovative group dynamics and how structured methods like design thinking enhance leadership and learning. Emilia also highlights the impact of digital tools and AI in large-scale facilitation and emphasizes facilitation as a mindset that enriches both professional and personal growth.

Show Highlights

Links | Resources

About the Guest

Emilia Åström is Head of Community at Howspace, where she facilitates peer learning communities for leaders in learning and transformation. With over a decade of experience, she was part of the early days at Mural, helping define best practices for remote collaboration. She co-authored MethodKit for Remote Workshops and created the toolkit Perspectivas for inclusive advertising with Publicitarias. Emilia began her career in digital strategy and has since used design thinking and facilitation to guide advertising agencies and teams through complex digital transformations.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

Subscribe to Podcast

Engage Control The Room

Voltage Control on the Web
Contact Voltage Control

Transcript

Douglas Ferguson:

Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab Podcast, where I speak with Voltage Control certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method-agnostic approach so you can enjoy a wide range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances of enabling meaningful group experiences.

This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening. If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our Facilitation Lab community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in real time with peers.

Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab, and if you’d like to learn more about our 12-week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com. Today I’m with Emilia Astrom at Howspace, where she facilitates peer learning communities for leaders in learning and transformation.

She’s the co-creator of Perspectives, a card deck for inclusive advertising developed with Publicitarias.org, and co-author of MethodKit for remote workshops and hybrid teams. Welcome to the show, Emilia.

Emilia Astrom:

Thank you, Douglas. Really great to be here. I’ve been longing to talk to you again and have this conversation, so.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, looking forward to it. It’s been a while. We were just remarking and it’s like pretty much a year, which is remarkable.

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah, time goes by quickly when you’re busy and have fun.

Douglas Ferguson:

Indeed, indeed. So I want to go back a little bit to the origin story here of how you got started. I know for you, Hyper Island was pretty pivotal in your early journey.

So let’s look at that first moment at Hyper Island. What was it like for you, the one where you realized facilitation could be more than a technique, but a calling?

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah. I had been working in advertising previously, so I came from an environment where it was quite common that you would compete against other creatives with your ideas, and then the best idea would be picked up. So when I started Hyper Island after that, and I had the first experience in a facilitated design thinking workshop, I was just really amazed with how a whole group were able to in such short time, come up with such great ideas together.

And before that, I hadn’t really known that human-centric design or facilitation existed and that there was a job you could actually do. So when I met the facilitators who came there when I first started Hyper Island, my idea or intention was to continue to work as a digital strategist or a creative. But I quickly found that it was much more interesting and I was much more fascinated with how can you make others come up with better ideas more quickly?

So that’s how it started, just that feeling of really belonging in a group, feeling that flow or coming up with great ideas together, and I just wanted more. So I continued to explore and study that, and look at what the facilitators who came to Hyper Island to teach courses and workshops would do. And then at the beginning, I would just imitate them and try to do the same, but then I started to explore and create more things on my own as well. So that’s how it started.

Douglas Ferguson:

A couple of things I was thinking about there was the point you made about the competitive environment in the ad agency.

And then the flip side, you’re talking about pulling out the great ideas from others or creating conditions where people come up with the great ideas.

How would you categorize those things, like how are they different, this competitive atmosphere versus this atmosphere where we’re drawing ideas out?

Emilia Astrom:

I guess in some way, the competitive atmosphere can be beneficial too. It can inspire you to be improving and to learning new things. But at the same time, I think that through a more collaborative experience or way of working, you’re much more able to join those ideas together and get the best of everyone.

So that we can come up with something that’s bigger, that’s considering more different perspectives and coming up with better, more strong ideas together. So you also get to better ideas quicker than you would do maybe through developing them individually, separately.

Because you can take all those different good parts from the different ideas and put them together much more quicker.

Douglas Ferguson:

What were some examples of early moments when you started to realize this power of shifting to a more collaborative and a more maybe inclusive approach?

Emilia Astrom:

I think it was really during Hyper Island, we had one week that was focusing just on idea development, and we had some really excellent guest facilitators who came to the school to facilitate those sessions. And those people later, I stayed in touch with them because I was curious to learn more. And there wasn’t that many people in my group either who were curious about facilitation, so I stayed in touch with them and continued to learn more afterwards.

But it was just in those workshops, the way that they were guiding the group through different steps and activities, and I realized how the structure could actually also help you build more creative and come up with better ideas. That moment in that workshop was really changing the perspectives for me. And I also think that I had, as [inaudible 00:06:19] advertising, I had always felt like I struggled a bit with coming up with good ideas.

I didn’t feel like I was maybe that creative or had that good ideas. But with those tools that you get through human-centric design and design thinking, I really felt like I got tools that helped me come up with better ideas. And I was really excited to share that with others as well, to let others have that experience that I had in that workshop in that moment.

Douglas Ferguson:

This kind of feeling that you had, it seems like you were compelled to share with others.

Is that something that’s been pervasive throughout your career or your life, this idea of spreading the news to others and assisting?

Emilia Astrom:

I think so. Actually, I remember a story that my mom used to tell me several times about when in kindergarten, she would observe how I would come up with games and stories, and come up with worlds that the other children would then join in and participate in. And I would come up with like give people roles.

I would come up with missions and we would all go out in the forest and do something together or build something, and so I think that’s something that I’ve probably always been pulled towards. And in school, that could sometimes be a little bit of a challenge, being too inspired and wanting to share your ideas with the group and try to steer the work of the groups as well.

And I think that through facilitation, they also got some tools that helped me make the most of that inspiration and curiosity and the desire to create things. Create worlds and play with others, but in a more constructive and more focused way that could also create better results for everyone. That’s a very interesting question. I never really thought about it that way.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. It’s interesting you were talking about this innate curiosity thing, behavior or trait that you have, and how these facilitation tools are allowing you to maybe funnel that or harness it in a way that’s really productive.

And I’m curious, were there some early tools or some early processes where the light bulb went off to say, “Oh, this feels real natural”?

Emilia Astrom:

When I facilitated or when I participated in a facilitated experience?

Douglas Ferguson:

I’m curious about either. And to your point, sometimes participating in stuff, you could go, “Oh my gosh, this is going to be a game changer. I have to incorporate this.” But certainly when you’re practicing yourself, it’s a totally different experience.

So I’d just be curious, what jumps out to you as maybe a poignant moment around connecting back to that innate interest and curiosity to create these worlds? And was there a particular structure or experience that really stood out that helped you bridge that gap?

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah. I think the first design thinking workshop I was part of that I mentioned, where we very clearly separated the conversation we had, or the moment where we explored the challenges or the needs of the people we would be designing for. And then have a more structured idea generation session where we also used the structure.

And this is something that Hyper Island later also included in the Hyper Island toolkit page, where you can find it yourself if you want to try later. But there’s an exercise called Mash-Up where you come up with different, you start by mapping different needs, different digital technologies, different maybe channels and platforms.

And then you connect them together to come up with new combinations and new ideas and you create new things together. So I think that was a really powerful thing for me, that also by using sticky notes, you take things apart but then you can put them together.

So I think that was a really powerful way as well that I learned through how also the visual aspect of facilitation can work in a really powerful way.

Douglas Ferguson:

So was that the first time you experienced someone sequencing a meeting or a session into its constituent parts so it flowed?

So you were focused on one piece and then moving to the next, versus what we tend to default to, which is like, “Oh, let’s just figure it all out”?

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah, definitely. In advertising, which I was used to before, you usually use a brief format where you do state what the problems and challenges, and needs and opportunities and insights are that you can use to develop your ideas. But after the brief has been created, everyone goes in their own direction, and then you have more of that sometimes you call it a technique like the blue sky.

You just go out in the world and wait for the perfect idea to hit you. Maybe you look at some references, some inspiration, maybe you look at some trends to try to get some ideas, but it’s not a very structured process and that can be a really great way to come up with ideas as well. So I definitely think that both, just a natural, creative process where you dream up new ideas over a longer period of time can have its place.

But sometimes you don’t have the luxury of time to come up with solutions quickly. And sometimes you also need to ensure that you follow a structured process, so that you make sure to do your proper research, that you test things to make sure that they really solve the problem that you’re setting out to solve. So I think that was also something that I was really just amazed with initially.

And thinking back at it now, those are things like today, I take those things for granted, it’s such an ingrained way of how I work. But initially, this was something that was really, really powerful, and this was over 15 years ago now, time goes by quickly. But thinking back at what it was like that first time when I realized this, it was really powerful.

It felt like a whole new world opening up, a whole new level of solving problems and collaborating with others.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, I would argue it’s a whole new level of leadership.

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah, that as well. And I think today finally, facilitation is starting to become more part of the discussion more often of what skills we believe that leaders need.

And I absolutely think and today, fortunately when looking around me, when looking at the people I work with, facilitation is starting to become something that most leaders know about and start to apply a little bit.

I think we could do it even more than better, but I’m really happy to say that the awareness of facilitation and the benefits of it are starting to spread more and more.

Douglas Ferguson:

It is very encouraging to see this trend of folks recognizing facilitation and honoring it more. Too often, we see folks talking about leadership as presentation skills or executive presence or this and that.

But as you mentioned earlier, this ability to draw things out of others, to not be the one that has to have all the answers, but to help everyone on the team have great answers. I would argue that’s probably the best leadership skill you could have.

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah. And when I was young and my intention was to continue working in advertising and become a creative or strategist, I think one thing that drove me back then was probably a bit more like, “How could I have better ideas? How can I contribute a bit more through my ideas?”

But through discovering facilitation, really that was a big change as well, just realizing how it’s so much more beneficial when everyone give up that ownership of ideas, and let them do something that belongs to the whole group.

And how that can really, yeah, also support leaders in thinking about, “How can we support the group to have better ideas together?” So that was really interesting as well.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it also is an interesting lens into how different cultures and different teams and different industries approach problems. Because when you’re focusing on facilitation skills, it typically exposes you to lots of different groups.

Whether that’s through your community of facilitators or just through the nature of the variety of work that you’re doing, and you’re no exception to that. You facilitated across continents and industries and formats. So I’m curious, what do you see as the through line in all those experiences?

Emilia Astrom:

I think that’s something that I started to realize more and more just recently. When I started out with facilitation, it was more of helping teams coming up with better ideas, but then now when I reflect back on it. Because recently, the last years, I’ve been finding myself more and more intentionally using facilitation as a way to help teams change the way they work and learn together in order to be able to change as well.

And I think looking back at the way I used facilitation when starting out, that was actually also about facilitating change. Because at that point, and this was back in 2010, then there were a lot of changes happening with new digital channels and tools coming in. And organizations were trying to find new ways of adapting to these new digital tools, and adapting to these new ways of working that this meant for them.

And human-centric design in facilitation was a tool that I found that I could use to help teams analyze what were the needs and what were the challenges of these new circumstances, and the new digital environment that we suddenly found ourselves in? So I think maybe those two parts, human-centric design as a way to facilitate change and learning, because change and learning are also very closely related.

It’s very hard to change if you’re not learning something new. And learning often means that something is changing as well, the way I changed by learning about facilitation kind of.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it’s certainly difficult to change when you’re in a fixed mindset.

And learning forces you into more of a growth mindset or a curious space, because you’re already framing and opening yourself up to learning new stuff.

So your brain is changing, you’re less change-adverse, I guess, is the way I like to think about it.

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah. And I think facilitation also makes you less more adaptive to change, because many facilitation techniques and facilitation practices, it’s embedded in the methods and the tools that we use.

The reflection and the looking back at what we did and thinking about how we can improve, so that’s something that really supports that mindset of change in growth as well, I think.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. When done well, it certainly does reinforce just by the nature of doing it, it keeps us in that growth mindset.

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah, no, absolutely. And as a facilitator, it’s always important to learn and grow and learn new things. I think throughout my career, I haven’t been planning too much or thought too much about the future what I would like to do. I feel like I’ve been more of a receptor just listening to my surroundings and seeing what my surroundings need.

And maybe that’s also in a way something that comes through facilitating, because you become a more attentive listener. You’re listening to your environment to feel what the people in the room needs, while still focusing on where you need to go in a way, what is it that you are trying to achieve, what the group is trying to achieve?

So you move between the both, listening and learning to grow, and that’s also something that’s embedded in many of the facilitation methods and tool that we’re using thinking about, “What’s the desired future state that we want to go towards?” And even when designing workshops, we often start with the end goal state.

So I think that’s something that also becomes very present in the way we think and work and learn through the facilitation mindset. So that’s another benefit that I think you’re getting from being more aware of facilitation, just being more mindful about how you listen, how you learn, how you grow.

But also thinking about the future and the desired state, and how we can design our will to get there. How we can facilitate us getting there. Sorry, that became very abstract, I realize now, that I’m thinking about growth and learning.

Douglas Ferguson:

The thing that’s emerging for me is this idea of when you internalize facilitation, when it becomes a deep part of your practice, it’s not just something you show up and do for work, or it’s not just something that you sprinkle in to meetings and experiences you have with folks. It has a shift on how you view the world, how you navigate the world.

Because you’ve internalized it at a deep level, so you’re a better listener, whether that’s in personal relationships with family and loved ones, or whether it’s like you’re buying a car, you’re noticing these details. Or maybe it impacts how you negotiate anything and how you move through, and also to your point, how open you might be to possibilities.

And so I would say it tunes your radar in a way that, I think, is valuable in a broader scope than just in work life.

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah, totally. I’ve noticed in the last years especially how I subconsciously or unintentionally or sometimes with intention too, start to facilitate or be more present and more mindful about how I go about every day and life events. And I also observe a lot in my environment all the time what different experiences are like, what it feels like, what I can learn from it.

So I get a lot of ideas for my facilitation just from interacting with, as you mentioned, products or services or holidays, and these everyday ceremonies and rituals that you go through like Christmas, and I don’t know, midsummer and things like that. I also think that international perspective helps in a way with that. Having lived in different cultures and different countries, you become an outside observer as well.

And after moving back to Sweden recently, I’m also observing more from the outside in a way, even though this is my culture and where I’m from. And that’s also something that’s really helpful for the facilitation mindset as well. Changing environment, which is something you do automatically by facilitating in different environments as well, which is something that helps us be more aware and observing too.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it’s a lot easier to observe if you leave and come back.

Emilia Astrom:

Exactly. And that’s also, talking about growth and facilitation, I think that’s also been something that’s been really helpful for me as I’ve been growing through my career and moving from different industries, and different contexts, and obviously using the experience I had from before. But then also applying, looking for new things that I need to learn and apply it to this new context.

Because even if I started out in advertising, I quite quickly started moving on working with large enterprises in general, supporting them with adopting new ways of working, more human-centric, design-centered and more facilitation. And that was also interesting, I think, when I started my career, I started out with facilitation during the big wave of design thinking when that was really trending.

And that was something that everyone wanted to do and work with, but then I think today it’s a little different. That’s something that more organizations already have embedded in their organizations today, so there may be not as many organizations that are asking me today to come and help them to adopt the more human-centric way of working.

Today, I feel like it’s more about coming up with collaborative ways of learning together, coming up with collaborative ways of facilitating change and transformation. Making those processes more co-creative, more involving by using or also leveraging the collaboration, and improving it to use it as a tool to change the culture. And by that, being able to really anchor and succeed with change.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it can have a really big impact. And speaking of impact, your work with Publicitarias and Tech Elevator highlights your commitment to inclusion and impact.

And I’m curious how that’s going now and what’s new, is emerging around that work for you?

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah. And that’s another area where I feel like I really, and that was also unexpected in a way, that’s something I could never have imagined would be something I would do during my career. But that’s another space where I really felt and saw the positive impact that facilitation can have, using facilitation as a tool to create positive change in different areas and industries.

So for example, with Publicitarias, which is a foundation founded in Argentina that works for more inclusive communication and advertising. With them, the main project I did, was together with their community and together with experts, facilitate a human-centric design process through which we co-created a tool that individuals and teams at advertising agencies.

But then the tool was actually used across brands and marketing departments, universities, schools, and many other places. But using facilitation both to gather the whole community to co-create this tool together, that would be something that the community members themselves could use to become change agents in their own terms and in their own environments.

And the tool is basically it’s a deck of cards, which is an idea that I had gotten from MethodKit and Ola Moller, which is also one of the facilitators I met through Hyper Island. So that was another actually way that Hyper Island had a really big impact on and inspired me in many ways.

But it was really encouraging and inspiring to see how this tool that we created together using design thinking and facilitated methods, then became a tool that enabled almost anyone. Or I would say anyone to facilitate a structured idea generation and evaluation process with their team in a safe way, that would be playful.

And allow other teams to have valuable and transforming conversations that would help change the way they work and the way they looked at advertising. And that’s also connected to, we touched on that earlier before, the power of just visual tools in facilitation.

So through these visual tools, it would also be easier for teams, by coming with those visual tools, you would help build credibility for the conversation. You would feel that it had more importance, but also help create that shared vocabulary that you need to really produce the change and new behaviors and ways of working.

Because through the cards, you could then have a more structured approach to how you would evaluate your ideas. It would help remind you of new ways of looking at things so that you could come up with ideas in a different way. And this is something that through also packaging this facilitation tool in a way like this, we were able to train thousands of people through our workshops.

We also printed and sold the cards. So there are hundreds of advertising agencies, universities and freelancers out there who also have these tools and can use them with their teams that they’re working with. So what started with a relatively small community became something that grew.

And we actually also heard some success stories about agencies that used these tools, and were able to radically change the way they looked at how they would communicate about different products. So that was really, really strong to see how a simple facilitation technique can have such a big impact.

Douglas Ferguson:

And how has Howspace challenged or expanded your understanding of digital or asynchronous facilitation?

Emilia Astrom:

I think, yeah, that was really interesting. So just to set the perspective, so before I started working with Howspace, where I’ve been working for a year now. I was working for almost nine years together with Mural, which is a digital whiteboard that you can use for human-centric design and facilitation as well.

But I think when you collaborate with human-centric design methods in a visual whiteboard, that’s something that it’s easier to do with smaller groups. But as soon as you want to scale, that can easily be a little bit more messy, and I’m talking big scale, like hundreds or thousands of people.

So what’s been really interesting with Howspace, has been to explore how facilitation can work in a digital way with larger groups of people or even entire organizations. At Howspace, we’re working with customers who are using Howspace to facilitate transformation with organizations where the invite may be 4,000, 5,000 people to participate.

And that has been really powerful to see that you can have the conversation at that skill and still make sense and meaning of it. And that also comes back to that shared vocabulary, that shared experience and collective knowledge that you need to be able to really anchor the change, and have people change the behavior, change the conversation so that the change becomes visible and in the everyday.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, that sounds exciting. When folks are able to realize this vision they have for where they want to go and bring along that many people, it’s really quite profound.

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah. And I remember when I started out working with facilitation, and during the first years, I don’t think I did that much digital facilitation, to be honest. Most of it was in person and at that point, I wasn’t even imagining that you could do these things with thousands of people at the same time. And that’s also something that wouldn’t have been possible at that point either maybe, because we didn’t have AI tools yet that could help make sense of those amounts of information.

And that’s also been very interesting starting to work with Howspace to explore just how artificial intelligence, especially GenAI, can be used to help make sense of information so that you can really get something out of those big groups’ conversations. Not just seeing all those individual messages and go beyond just word clouds. But actually being able to make sense of it, get some key insights, but also turn that into options that people can make decisions on in real time.

So that has been really eye-opening for me. And I think most people I’ve been talking to in the last year who use generative AI or AI in facilitation, the use cases I’m still hearing the most are maybe you use artificial intelligence to plan your session in advance. Maybe you use it to support your transcripts of the video calls. Maybe afterwards, after the session, you take all the insights and you synthesize them and summarize them with the help of AI.

But with Howspace, it’s been really interesting to explore how you can also use AI in real time, in the moment of the session to get insights and to advance the process with the group. So that’s been really interesting to explore and something that I’m looking forward to do more of in the future as well.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. We actually held a workshop at South by Southwest on this very topic, how most people look at AI as a utilitarian tool, that it’s a one-to-one. Like I as an individual, I’m going, to your point, use it for my planning, use it for some retrospective.

And it’s very much a, “It’s going to do a task for me and I’m going to get a thing out of it.” But bringing in the AI as a collaborative partner has some really interesting, I would say, outcomes. And it’s not about adopting some tool right now, I think it’s about adopting a mindset of like, “Hey, let’s use this in different moments, in different times, in different ways.”

And eventually, the tools are going to show up that are intended to be used in that way, and then it won’t feel so foreign. Because I think that we’re going to see more and more of the stuff just embedded almost like AI teammates and coworkers.

Emilia Astrom:

Yeah. And that’s something that people talk about quite a lot. I think still in the future, we’re probably still going to want to have real human facilitators to have that human touch, and who can really read the room and understand the feelings.

But I also think it’s really valuable to use artificial intelligence as a co-facilitator or another team member in the room, who can help come up with better ideas, help synthesize and things like that in real time.

So that’s really interesting to explore as well, how we can collaborate with it, and how we can embed it more and more into the facilitation until the point where we almost don’t notice it. It’s so natural and such part of the process.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yes, I love that. And then I’m just curious if you have any reflections? We talked about facilitation being a really important leadership skill.

And I’d love to hear if you have any advice on, or just for any of our listeners that might be interested in how they might harness the power of facilitation, or even how organizations might better harness it?

Emilia Astrom:

I think there are many different ways. I think something that I’m working with quite a lot right now, is on one hand, the role of facilitation in transformation. And I think that’s an interest that are starting to emerge more in the last years, as with the challenges of the world and the economy, the pressure, of course, on people leading transformation to be able to show impact potential results is becoming increasing all the time.

And then I think facilitation has really showed up as one of those tools that you can use as a leader who’s leading change, to ensure that you’re getting the results that you’re hoping for. And doing so by as we talked about initially, my first insights about facilitation and human-centric design. It allows you to have more perspectives present earlier, which ensures that you maybe make less mistakes later on.

It also ensures that you’re testing and getting feedback ongoing. So hopefully, that would ensure to set you up for success and avoid making some mistakes, and getting more value out of the change that you’re trying to produce earlier. And the other area where I’m working quite a lot right now is how I can use facilitation to facilitate social learning and knowledge sharing.

And that’s also in a way connected to the change. Because I think organizations are starting to become more aware of just the need for before implementing a big change, make sure that people have the skills and the tools they need to be able to adopt those new ways of working. I think still in the news, in Sweden at least, you can quite often read about organizations or public institutions are implementing new systems or new ways of working.

But without having that training initially, and then the adoption doesn’t look as you had hoped, and there’s a lot of costs as a result of that. So having that learning facilitated as part of that, is also very powerful. And what’s also very interesting, especially now with new technologies like AI

What I also heard quite a lot recently is how central learning teams often have a hard time to keeping up producing learning materials and content in the same speed that the employees are adopting new technologies and ways of working, and especially in the case of AI. So being able to facilitate these knowledge-sharing possibilities and facilitating this social learning also becomes a way to keep up to speed with new change.

And in that way, being able to support the change and transformation that needs to take place, but I also think that it’s a way for us to have more fun and to connect more at work, and that’s something we wanted especially now. After the pandemic and many years working at home, and now we’re also being asked to come back to the office.

And if we can use facilitation to make those things more meaningful and get more out of it, I think that’s something that’s very beneficial as well. So not just for the profit and the value, but also for our well-being and our joy at work.

Douglas Ferguson:

Love that. Well, as we come to a close, could you leave our listeners with a final thought?

Emilia Astrom:

Yes, of course. And I think that’s very much connected to what we’ve been talking about most recently. After especially I think starting to work with Howspace and get insight into how organizations really change, because that’s something that we’ve been supporting quite a lot.

But also looking back at what I’ve been doing in my career, helping facilitate digital transformation, but also helping facilitate cultural change through Publicitarias. I think what I really learned is just or what I’ve seen is just the power of involving people early in the change and inviting them to co-create it.

And just how change becomes more effective and sustainable when people feel ownership of the change. We invite more voices, we invite the voices of those who are impacted, not just those who are in charge of the change, which is very important. But if we want to do so, we need to know how to facilitate it and many organizations are a little hesitant to do those things still.

But I think that the answer to that and how you can feel more comfortable in inviting people into the change and co-creating it is through facilitation.

Douglas Ferguson:

Excellent. Well, it was a pleasure chatting with you today, and look forward to chatting again sometime soon.

Emilia Astrom:

Yes, thank you. Great questions. I feel like it became very introspective, a little bit abstract at some points. But I hope that this will also awaken some more curiosity and interests from people about what more can you get out from facilitation? And how can it support your personal growth, but how can it also open up new career paths?

And I strongly believe as well that through the needs, technology is changing faster all the time, and we’re going to have to change more all the time and learn more all the time. And I think facilitation is one of those skills that’s going to still be needed many years from now to help facilitate those things, and help us overcome all the challenges that we’re facing as a world.

Douglas Ferguson:

Let’s hope so. Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab Podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review and be sure to subscribe and receive updates when new episodes are released.

We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog where I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics and collaboration at voltagecontrol.com.

The post From Competition to Collaboration in Idea Generation appeared first on Voltage Control.

“Somewhere along the line, as we grow up, we get so used to doing things a certain way that we lose touch with that creative side of the brain. As kids, we tried all sorts of things and never stuck to a certain methodology or structure, but I think facilitation brings out that childlike curiosity, which makes the whole thing very special. And I think that’s what’s kept me going.”- Varsha Prasad

In this Facilitation Lab podcast episode, host Douglas Ferguson interviews Varsha Prasad of IdeaCompass about her journey as a facilitator and entrepreneur. Varsha shares insights from her first design thinking workshop, the impact of mentorship, and the importance of creating engaging environments. She discusses navigating cultural differences in facilitation, her transition to independent consulting, and the value of community support. The conversation highlights the power of innovation, structured reflection, and open-mindedness in workshops, offering practical advice for facilitators seeking to inspire creativity and collaboration across diverse teams.

Show Highlights

Links | Resources

Varsha on Linkedin

IdeaCompass on Instagram

About the Guest

Varsha is an innovation strategist and the Founder of IdeaCompass, a consulting practice dedicated to helping entrepreneurs and intrapreneurs transform bold ideas into actionable strategies. She specializes in facilitation, design thinking, and business innovation, working with diverse industries including tech, education, transportation, hospitality and e-commerce and public sector.  

With a strong background in customer success and corporate innovation, Varsha has collaborated with organizations globally to drive impactful change. She is passionate about building human-centered solutions that deliver tangible business results.  

Varsha’s expertise lies in guiding cross-functional teams, fostering creative collaboration, and simplifying complexity into clear, actionable strategies. Her approach blends structured innovation frameworks with a deep understanding of customer needs, ensuring sustainable transformation for the businesses she works with.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

Subscribe to Podcast

Engage Control The Room

Voltage Control on the Web
Contact Voltage Control

Transcript

Douglas:

Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab Podcast where I speak with Voltage Control Certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method agnostic approach so you can enjoy a wide range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances enabling meaningful group experiences. This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening. If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our Facilitation Lab Community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in real time with peers. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab, and if you’d like to learn more about our 12-week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com. Today, I’m with Varsha Prasad at IdeaCompass, where she helps entrepreneurs and enterpreneurs build customer-centric products through custom innovation workshops. Welcome to the show, Varsha.

Varsha:

Thank you, Douglas. Happy to be here and chat with you.

Douglas:

Yeah, it’s so good to have you. And I guess let’s get started by hearing a little bit about how you got your start. Take us back to that first design thinking workshop at Cisco. What do you remember about how it felt walking into that room and why did it hit so different?

Varsha:

Yeah, that was a different kind of day for me, especially because I was used to one hour meetings in a conference room with long tables and chairs on either side of the tables, one person standing at the front of the table walking through a presentation, and most of us joining off or just looking into our phones. But that was a special one because as soon as we entered the table, the room set up was totally different. There was music playing in the background.

And we had our director, who was supposed to be one of the senior most people in our organization, standing at the door welcoming people with smiles, and I could see sticky notes, colorful sticky notes and Lego blocks and all sorts of cool stuff lying on the table there. So that was very new to me. And from the time we entered, I didn’t know how the day passed. It was eight hours. We walked in at 9 AM and then we finished, I’d say I think five or something with a break in between for lunch. That was the day that things turned around for me and I fell in love with the whole process of design thinking and creative workshops.

Douglas:

Was there a specific moment in the day where something clicked for you?

Varsha:

I think the fact that ideation is, I think one of my favorite ways to work around things, like from the day I realized that this is how you can brainstorm and come up with new ideas. Idea bombing is one of my favorite exercises. Every time I feel like I’m in a clump, I’m stuck, I just stick to this plain, simple exercise. I take a sheet of paper and a pen and just start writing as many ideas as I can. And some of the best ideas come up when you are sitting with a tight timeline. You say, put a timer of 10 minutes and in the 10 minutes come up with as many ideas as you can. And that is one of my favorite exercises, and I keep using that over and over again, both with my participants and myself as well.

Douglas:

I love that. Have you ever done ten-by-ten writing from Liberating Structures?

Varsha:

I’ve done, I think the eight-by-eight, is the Crazy Eights the same thing?

Douglas:

Crazy Eights is a little different. I love Crazy Eights too. To your point, that’s another rapid fire time constraint activity. The ten-by-ten writing is, it’s not part of the Liberating Structures repertoire, but it’s listed as one of the in development. And basically you give your participants a prompt and they’re supposed to write 10 responses to it, and then you give them a second prompt and they write 10 responses and a third prompt, and they write 10 responses. And it’s about just creating so much volume because essentially they’re writing a hundred things that they’re writing 10 things to 10 different prompts.

Varsha:

Exactly. Yeah, that’s an interesting one. Probably the next ideation exercise for me to try out.

Douglas:

Yeah. You can get really playful with the prompts too. One of my favorites is what is something that users don’t want.

Varsha:

I think that there’ll be a list of 20 of them. [inaudible 00:05:04].

Douglas:

Yes. So often we’re making things that people don’t want, right? That’s amazing.

Varsha:

True. I agree.

Douglas:

So you mentioned your lead being a real pivotal mentor, and I want to come back to that kind of scenario you described of just walking in and the room was set up totally different and they were greeting you at the door and there were all these things sprinkled around the room that were different and just how much of an impact the way the room is set up can have.

Varsha:

Yeah.

Douglas:

Do you want to elaborate on that a little bit?

Varsha:

Yeah, a lot, because I think this also came up in the Art of Gathering by Priya Parker, when we were doing the certification. So how you set up the room, how the room is placed when participants enter it changes the mood, the psychology of the participants, I think to be in a different environment. I think that’s key. I think for me, it just transported me into a very playful environment and having the music around and seeing those creative, colorful sticky notes, it just activated that creative side of the brain. I guess that’s what it did to me. And ever since then, I realized that that plays a very crucial role because corporate meeting setups, usually there is a hierarchy where the head of the meeting stands at the front and everyone is seated around the table in rows. So it’s a stark difference for sure.

Douglas:

And it’s interesting how powerful that can be. Just putting some thought into how we might just rearrange the space, how we might group folks different, how we might change the seating. It’s a totally different experience walking in with rows of seats versus clusters of chairs or… Very powerful. Also, I took note of you talking about how you were greeted at the door.

Varsha:

Yeah.

Douglas:

It’s like so often the host is stuck behind a laptop trying to get the HDMI cable to work or whatever, and that feeling of being invited in, being welcomed, so powerful.

Varsha:

Yeah. And it shows that they were in the room much before the meeting started and they prepped for it. They got all the stuff in. So it shows how much effort they’ve put into designing that space for us, and that automatically signals that we need to be just as involved. It allows us to reciprocate that.

Douglas:

Yeah. The facilitation doesn’t start, once everyone’s in the room and we’re getting folks attention. It starts when folks are first arriving and how are we making them feel comfortable. And to your point, you even just mentioned that you were starting to feel a certain way around like, oh, I’m already in a creative mindset. I’m ready to play games. I’m ready to be totally different in this space.

Varsha:

Yeah, yeah. Especially when you’re not used to that in your office and when you hear music in the office, it just plays on your mind. Yeah.

Douglas:

Yeah. So cool. So coming back to your mentor, what did you learn from shadowing him and working alongside him and how did that shape your early style as a facilitator?

Varsha:

Yeah, so my mentor, his name is Viva, that’s how we call him, Viva. And he was the one who had been to a design thinking workshop, and then he realized how powerful the framework is, just the mindset that it puts us all in. And he decided to introduce that into our organization, and I think we were one of the first or the second teams that he introduced this concept to. The day we did the workshop, I went up to him and I said, “Hey, I really liked the whole workshop that we did today. How can I be part of this?” And he said, “There is no formal design thinking club as such, so let’s start something here.”

I think his mindset was to… He had already embraced the design thinking mindset where you test things out, you prototype it, and then if something doesn’t work, then you reiterate on it. He had a playful mindset himself, so that encouraged us to be bold and accept that. And I think that played a crucial role. He never expected us to be perfect. He didn’t say, if we walk into the room, we need to have answers to everything. That was a huge learning that I had from him.

Douglas:

Yeah. It also sounded like you were really curious throughout your tenure and just trying lots of different things and being persistent and following through on things, what helped you keep that drive and that curiosity and that willingness to explore new things? I could imagine some folks might lose steam or get frustrated or not stick through things. So what kept your passion alive there?

Varsha:

To be honest, that’s a question I keep asking myself even today, because I’m the kind who just jumps from one hobby to another. I don’t keep through with things. I’ve tried dancing, I’ve tried singing, I’ve done all sorts of things. But this is one thing that I think I’ve been doing it for six plus years now since the day I first walked into that room and learned about design thinking. Every time there is a workshop, every time there is some ideation session, I want to be the one who’s facilitating it. I want to be the one who’s driving it. I think one of the key things is when we walk into the room, there is a lot of chaos, there’s a lot of misalignment, and what do we do?

There’s a lot of confusion when we enter the room, and then by the end of it, people are so happy with the amount of ideas that were just generated and the amount of clarity that they get by the end of all those exercises and activities. And somewhere along the line, I think as we grow up, we got so used to doing things a certain way that we’ve lost touch with that creative side of the brain. As kids, we tried all sorts of things and we never stuck to a certain methodology or a structure, but I think it brings out that childish behavior, that childlike behavior, I shouldn’t say childish. But childlike curiosity, which makes the whole thing very special. And I think that’s kept me if I need to answer that question.

Douglas:

Yeah. It sounds like unlike some of the other things you’ve tried, this really connected in with something deep and meaningful that you just couldn’t let go of.

Varsha:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Douglas:

And so also noticed reading your alumni story, the arc of building creative culture across three countries. There was the group, they’re in Bangalore, then Poland and now Netherlands.

Varsha:

Yeah.

Douglas:

So I’m curious what you’ve learned about facilitation from doing this work across these three different cultures around how people show up in different ways or just anything you’ve noticed about the differences or the similarities even.

Varsha:

Yeah, I think when I was facilitating back in India… And also it was more around very technical teams. So one thing that I’ve noticed is technical folks are very rooted in a structure. They have a certain way of working and introducing creative ways of working is something new to them, and it’s not as acceptable to these folks. But when I moved to Poland and I started the design thinking club, I think there was a lot more acceptance on or curiosity around how does this work? What does this contain? I think when it comes to cultures, I think Poland has been a lot more accepting in terms of being playful, but I think the culture is also getting better in India where people are open now to newer ways of working. But there was this initial resistance, especially from technical folks where they said, “Hey, what are you making us do? What are these sticky notes? What are these activities and energizers that you’re making us do?” But yeah, over time I think there’s been an acceptance around these new ways of working, these new ways of thinking even.

Douglas:

Coming back to the technical folks having a bit of resistance early on. When you look back on that, what were some of the things that helped them connect in with the purpose or understand more deeply why that was important? Or was it getting to the other end and realizing that, oh, there’s value in this, or was it some clarity that they were getting along the way? What was it that do you think that really helped them?

Varsha:

Yeah, it is definitely the clarity that they get along the way where we… Highlighting the fact that no matter how good your technology is, if it doesn’t connect with your customer, then that’s going to flop. So telling them or making them understand that important fact has played a very crucial role. So especially when you say, we did a lot of these training programs for technical leaders, so aspiring solution architects and technical leaders, because they need to get out of that structured or single one way of thinking into now how do we bring innovation within our company, within our teams, and how do we change that culture within our teams. So once they saw how design thinking works, I think they were a lot more accepting, thinking that this is something we need to embrace and it’s new, but it’s something that we need to embrace. So, yeah.

Douglas:

Yeah. You’re making me think too if the technology folks start to realize that, oh, we’re making this technology for humans. We need to think about the experience they have, and in order to explore that, maybe we need to use some tools that have a bit more human connection

Varsha:

Yeah.

Douglas:

So that we can get in that mode of understanding and thinking about and maybe empathizing with other humans.

Varsha:

Yeah. And I think it also helped when our organization itself was renamed as customer experience, so that put the customer at the center of everything that we do. So I think that changed a lot of our mindsets as well.

Douglas:

Yeah, it’s fascinating too, that you bring that up. Just naming the group had an impact. ‘Cause if you think about how those folks were showing up early on, they might’ve just been resistant because they were confused. They’re like, where am I at? Why is this team doing this thing? How does it fit in to the bigger picture? How does this impact the work I’m doing? But then you reframe it, you tell a different story around the fact that, “Hey, we’re helping with customer experience.” Now they’re showing up in a different way with a different expectation, and they say, “Oh, this is going to help customer experience. I see why we might be thinking about things a little different or even interacting with ourselves a little bit different. We might need to do some make believe because the customer’s not here.” If we need to think about them, we might be in a different mindset.

Varsha:

And I feel like the culture shift comes a lot from top down. What are your leaders speaking? What are their core values? So customer centricity was one of the biggest value that we had. As we shifted names, we became the customer experience organization, and I also became part of the customer success team where we had to be in front of customers day in, day out. Our job was to understand what the customers need and how we can help them. So I think that also played a huge role in the shift of the mindset. Yeah.

Douglas:

Yeah. Also, I remember you saying that facilitation actually disrupted the hierarchy you’re used to. Can you talk a little bit more about what that means and how it showed up in the rooms that you held?

Varsha:

Yeah, so if you remember, I said that our director, who’s one of the senior guys in our organization, he was at the door inviting people and then he was smiling and he was just encouraging people to be more present and to be involved in the whole process. And then we had our managers, our team leaders on the same table that we were sitting in. So we had our be it our team leads or solution architects, so who are senior in the team, and someone who just joined the team also contributing to the ideas that they were trying to pool in. So they were all solving the same problem of how do we help the customer, but they all belong to different grades.

One was talking from the perspective of managing a team, a manager. And a senior solution architect, he was bringing in his perspective, and then there was a person who just joined the team and she was bringing in her own perspective of what she thinks is happening with the customer and how she’s dealing with things. So it was a round table rather than that long table where we sit according to our grades.

Douglas:

I love that shifting from the long table to the round table and maybe flattening power structures. I love it.

Varsha:

Absolutely. Yeah. And then I think power structure, when you say about that, I have seen where managers said, “We don’t mind sitting out from this because we know that the dynamics might change if we are present in the room.” And because they understand the purpose of say that particular workshop or meeting where they want their employees to be more authentic and speak out. And I’ve seen managers sit out from certain meetings and the dynamics of the rooms completely change. So that’s also very powerful.

Douglas:

Yeah, it’s so fascinating and amazing when leaders realize that dynamic is there and are willing to do what it takes to make sure that we can still move forward to subdue that a bit.

Varsha:

Yeah, yeah, and I think I’ve been fortunate where I’ve worked with leaders who understand that and they know that it’s not about them, it’s more about the culture that’s already present and the biases that are present. So in order to remove them, they need to be out of the meetings. So that’s been a good thing.

Douglas:

Yeah, got to love the leaders that believe in we, not me.

Varsha:

Yeah.

Douglas:

So you made the leap from Cisco to independent facilitator. What was going through your head during that messy middle? I’m sure it was a little bit… It’s got to be scary, those moments. I know when I started Voltage Control, I was like, oh my gosh, what am I doing? So I’m just kind of curious, how did you finally make that decision and what was going through your head?

Varsha:

It was definitely the messiest middle that I’ve been in. I mean, I’ve done over a hundred workshops and I’ve seen a lot of messy middles, but this was a messy middle in my life. So I think when I decided to quit my tenured job as an employee to become an entrepreneur or a independent consultant, firstly, I was super scared. There were days when I could not sleep just thinking about what am I doing? I didn’t tell this to anyone except for my husband. So it was just me and my husband discussing this because I didn’t want anybody else’s opinions to sort of mess with my thinking. And I think that was the best decision because I really wanted to know if this is what I really want to do. And once I had that clarity that yes, I have been doing these workshops for six years now.

This is not a hobby anymore. This is something that I really love doing. I think I can figure things out on my own if I get the right kind of support. I actually designed think that phase of my life, I think. So I literally sat down and did a sailboat exercise, and I said, “What are the challenges that I’m facing right now? What is the things that are pulling me back or holding me back? And then what are my wins? What is helping me at the moment?” So I sat and did a whole exercise on what I need to do. By the end of that workshop that I did with myself, I had an action plan for the next 90 days. From the day I put my papers, or I rather told my manager that I’m going to be quitting, I had three months time, so I knew exactly when I woke up, what are the things that I need to do in order for me to go through this messy middle.

So automatically, I think my brain was like, this is not a difficult task, you know exactly what you’re going to do when you wake up, and this is what you’ve achieved in a week’s time. So I did have these check-ins with my husband every week I remember and I said, “This is what I’ve achieved. Look.” And I just felt good about having that clarity on where I’m moving, and I actually wanted to name my business Chaos to Clarity because I love the name, because that’s how I always saw my teams moving from chaos into clarity. And that’s how I felt at that moment when everything was just so chaotic and confusing and I moved through that into a space of clarity. I think that’s how I overcame my messy middle, and it was a huge benefit knowing these kind of methodologies exist that eventually ground you. I think that’s how I felt once those three months were done.

Douglas:

That’s really incredible. And I would argue you need a good compass to move through the chaos and get to clarity. So I think you still kept the name in that spirit.

Varsha:

Yeah, I took off with something that I really loved as well. It took a lot. I had all my design thinking, all my toolbox, books out with me, and then I was sifting through all the pages and I keep writing down all the names that I thought could help in naming this business and eventually was Idea and then how do you guide people with these ideas. So Compass came in and I’m happy with the name.

Douglas:

Yeah. And I wanted to talk a little bit too about compasses and journeys. You came to Voltage Control. It all started through one phone call with Eric that led to the certification and then the summit, and then co-leading or leading the Amsterdam region. And also that’s been a little bit of a journey for you anyway around leadership. And I’m just curious, your leap into the Voltage Control community and leading the region, what did that leap into the leadership teach you? What did you learn as you were going through some of those motions?

Varsha:

A lot of learning. I keep telling my husband this, that the amount of learning that I’ve had in the past six months, I don’t think I’ve learned so much throughout my career time. Because it’s like I’ve been put on fast track because I think I have to do everything on my own now and I don’t have someone teaching me, but having a community is so… I realize how important it is, especially when you don’t have a team or a boss to tell you this is what you need to do and these are our goals and stuff like that. But in those three months, this messy middle, my first goals was to get a formal certification in facilitation itself. So that I think was the basis or the foundation over which everything else is built up. So I don’t think all this would’ve been possible if I didn’t know that I’m already good, but this has made me even better.

So that’s the confidence that the certification gave me. And being around other facilitators who do the same kind of work that I do, and especially seeing other facilitators… Because I think facilitators do this out of a space of love and passion for what they do. Most facilitators that I’ve been working with, even in the community or on my LinkedIn community, they’ve all been extremely helpful. And I think empathy is where they all operate from, and that’s how I think the certification itself helped. I think before I even enrolled myself, I was already part of the community and I said, “I want to volunteer,” because putting myself in a volunteer position helped me grow a lot more than if I hadn’t been there. I was leading the solopreneur or independent facilitators community at Voltage Control, and through that I learned how to do organic marketing. For example, I didn’t have a single post on LinkedIn during my professional career at Cisco, but then I realized how important it is to be visible to your network to make sure your work is seen by others.

And that’s when I decided that I’m going to do a weekly post of all the learnings that I’m going to learn through the certification, and it helped me keep accountable both on my marketing and also my learnings. So that was a great start to both learning and marketing and yeah, that’s how I think the certification played a huge role. Being a part of the community and volunteering at the community helped. I think anyone who’s come to me after that, I said, “Just go join the community first. See how the vibe is. Volunteer if you want to learn about facilitation and especially if you are starting on a new path in the facilitation space, this is a great space to be in.” I think that’s how it played a huge role.

Douglas:

Yeah, amazing. And looking ahead for what’s next. Gosh, I think it’s so much potential when you think about the moment you’re in and growing a business and whatnot, and I’m curious, what’s one hope or vision you have for the future of your work, either in your own practice or for the future of the field at large.

Varsha:

Yeah. And I think I realized as I was building the business and what I wanted to do, also the coaching calls with Eric helped a lot when I was trying to figure this out. I realized how much I love innovation. Also, people say innovation is a very broad term, but to me it’s about creating something new. It’s about using what you have and the creative powers that you’ve got to make the world a better place. And for me to be able to play a part in that is a huge win for me. And I think that is what keeps me driving. And I think our world has a lot of problems that can be solved and the place can be made a lot better than what it is now. And that’s what I see for my future and for the future of IdeaCompass at the moment.

Douglas:

As we come to a close here, I’d like to invite you to leave our listeners with a final thought.

Varsha:

That’s a deep question, final thoughts. I think if there’s one thing that I had to say is to my technical folks, I keep saying before every workshop, “Trust the process.” And if you are in any workshop, creative workshop like this, switch off the rational mindset and switch off the skeptic mindset to embrace what’s coming through in your workshop. It doesn’t matter if I’m facilitating or if there’s anyone else facilitating, because that makes a huge difference in the output of the workshop itself. I think that would be something that I really want my listeners to… If there are technical folks or if there are skeptical folks who are entering the workshop, that is something that I would like to tell.

Douglas:

I think we could all learn from that, right? Let’s put our guards down because our assumptions and all of our prior learnings inform those guards, and if we want to innovate, we got to put those guards down and be open to almost anything. And then we can of course put up the spectacles, pull up the guards, start to criticize stuff, but let’s wait a little bit before we start doing that and create some space for it. So I think that’s great advice, and not only for your techies, but for anybody, because I think we all get set in our ways and could use a dose of like, let’s ignore our best advice and try to come up with some good stuff here.

Varsha:

Absolutely. Yeah. I think the energy just shifts when people enter with that kind of mindset. And as facilitators, I’ve seen a lot of facilitators try their best to create an environment where those fears, where those biases are shut down. But as participants, if there is an effort from there end, then that’s a powerful workshop.

Douglas:

I couldn’t have said it better. Varsha, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you today. I hope we can do it again soon sometime.

Varsha:

Absolutely, Douglas, thank you so much for having me and having this wonderful platform for facilitators to share their learnings, their experiences. I love listening to your podcasts, and I hope there are many more other folks who can join the podcast and we learn from them.

Douglas:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab Podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review and be sure to subscribe and receive updates when new episodes are released. We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog where I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics and collaboration at voltagecontrol.com.

The post How Can Facilitators Ignite Creativity in Diverse Workshop Environments? appeared first on Voltage Control.

At this year’s Facilitation Lab Summit, we explored the theme of Practice—not as something passive or theoretical, but as a verb. A doing. A commitment to growth. Whether you joined us in Austin or from across the globe, the summit invited all of us to sharpen our skills, embrace experimentation, and reflect on what it means to truly be in practice as facilitators.

We’re grateful to the eight incredible facilitators who led sessions across two days of hands-on learning, connection, and transformation. Each brought their unique lens to the craft of facilitation, offering tools, stories, and experiences we can carry forward in our own work. Here’s a look back at what we practiced together:

Skye Idehen-Osunde

The Safety Net: Building Credibility and Psychological Safety in Workshops

Skye opened the summit with energy and intention, guiding us through a powerful session focused on building trust and psychological safety. Through interactive exercises and honest conversation, she invited us to reflect on how we show up as facilitators and what it means to earn credibility in the spaces we hold. Skye reminded us that safety doesn’t happen by chance—it’s something we cultivate through consistency, care, and courage.

Her session offered practical techniques to design workshops that center psychological safety from the start. We explored how body language, tone, facilitation structure, and group norms can either foster or fracture trust. Most importantly, Skye reminded us that psychological safety is a moving target—something that requires continuous attention and repair. Her tools helped us feel more equipped to meet that challenge with compassion and clarity.

Alyssa Coughlin

Change Through Stories: Capturing Hearts and Aligning Minds

Alyssa took us deep into the world of storytelling as a facilitation tool for change. With warmth and clarity, she helped us understand why stories are more than just communication—they’re bridges. In any change process, people are looking for meaning, for belonging, and for their role in what’s unfolding. Alyssa showed us how compelling stories can align teams and move them forward together.

Participants explored the anatomy of a story that truly sticks: one that centers emotion, includes relatable characters, and speaks directly to the “what’s in it for me.” Using real-world examples and structured frameworks, Alyssa led us through exercises that helped us articulate narratives with clarity and resonance. By the end of the session, we had a clearer sense of how storytelling can transform resistance into connection.

Kathy Ditmore

Mapping Your Change Journey

Kathy’s session brought structure and insight to the often messy work of navigating change. Through the lens of facilitation, she unpacked how to guide teams through transitions using clarity, empathy, and smart design. We worked through frameworks that helped us identify project misalignment, engage the right stakeholders, and create shared understanding—especially in moments when change feels stuck or overwhelming.

One of the standout moments of her session was a group pre-mortem exercise that helped us uncover potential pitfalls before they derail a change effort. Kathy also shared practical strategies for rescuing projects that have gone off track, including how to uncover root causes and recalibrate purpose. Her guidance was both strategic and human-centered, reminding us that successful change is a journey—and we, as facilitators, are its guides.

Dom Michalec

Facilitating Transformation: How Small Changes Change Everything

Dom invited us to rethink how we approach transformation by zooming in on behavior design. Drawing from Stanford research and his own facilitation practice, he shared how small, specific changes can lead to profound results. Through real-life stories and a mix of theory and application, we explored how habit formation can be a powerful lever for sustained change.

Participants learned how to apply models like B=MAP (Behavior = Motivation, Ability, Prompt) to their own facilitation goals and client work. Dom’s energetic and relatable style made it easy to see how we might bring these insights into everyday practice—whether we’re helping teams adopt new behaviors or individuals cultivate lasting habits. His session left us feeling like we had gained a new superpower: the ability to shape change one small step at a time.

Dr. Karyn Edwards, PCC

The Secrets of Applying Executive Coaching to Facilitation

Dr. Karyn’s session was a masterclass in blending facilitation and coaching. She introduced us to the principles of non-directive coaching and demonstrated how these techniques can unlock greater participation and agency in group settings. By stepping back from the role of “expert,” facilitators can empower participants to discover their own insights and solutions—leading to deeper engagement and more lasting outcomes.

We experienced firsthand how asking the right kinds of questions, listening with intention, and creating reflective space can transform a group’s dynamic. Through practice and discussion, Dr. Karyn helped us develop personalized strategies for bringing coaching mindsets into our facilitation work. Her session reinforced a powerful message: that facilitation isn’t about steering—it’s about holding space for others to steer themselves.

JJ Rogers

Radical Acts of Delight

JJ reminded us that facilitation can—and should—include joy. Her session, focused on delight as a design strategy, was a breath of fresh air. We explored how small moments of surprise, humor, and care can build trust, deepen engagement, and make sessions more memorable. Through interactive exercises, she invited us to intentionally design for delight, not just as a “nice to have” but as a core component of impact.

Participants reflected on their own facilitation style and considered where delight shows up—or where it’s missing. JJ offered a toolkit of strategies that anyone can adapt, regardless of content or audience. From playful warm-ups to sensory design, her session was a reminder that joy is not frivolous—it’s transformative. And sometimes, the most radical thing we can do as facilitators is invite people to feel good while they learn.

Caterina Rodriguez

Enhancing Facilitation Through Nonverbal Communication

Caterina’s session offered a fresh look at something often overlooked in facilitation: nonverbal communication. Through movement, observation, and structured practice, we explored how our facial expressions, gestures, posture, and tone shape the way participants feel in our sessions. Caterina helped us build awareness of our own nonverbal cues and decode those of others, all while maintaining a culturally sensitive lens.

We also examined how cultural norms influence body language and how misinterpretation can impact trust and inclusion. Caterina’s practical exercises helped us fine-tune our presence, improve our “nonverbal listening,” and build deeper connection with our groups. Her message was clear: when words fall short, our bodies still speak—and as facilitators, we need to be fluent in that language too.

Elena Farden

Consent as Ceremony: Learnings from Nurturing Safe Connections in Indigenous Play Parties

Elena brought the summit to a meaningful close with a deeply reflective session that blended facilitation, culture, and intimacy. Drawing from her experience facilitating Indigenous play parties, she introduced a ceremonial approach to consent—one rooted in gratitude, sovereignty, and sacredness. Her framing helped us reimagine how we create consent-based spaces, not just in intimate contexts, but in all group settings.

Participants explored practices for nurturing trust and honoring autonomy, from how we open a session to how we invite participation. Elena’s teachings emphasized slowing down, listening deeply, and treating facilitation as a form of care. Her session reminded us that facilitation is not just about process—it’s about presence. And sometimes, the most powerful thing we can practice is reverence.

Facilitation Lab Summit 2025 was a celebration of the art of practice—a place to experiment, reflect, connect, and grow. Whether you left with a new toolkit, a powerful story, or a shift in mindset, we hope this year’s summit reminded you that facilitation is not about perfection—it’s about showing up again and again with curiosity and care.

You can read full recaps of each session on our blog. And if you’re looking to keep your practice going, join us at our weekly Facilitation Lab meetups—where the learning never stops.

The post Facilitation Lab Summit 2025 Recap appeared first on Voltage Control.

At the 2025 Facilitation Lab Summit, Elena Farden led an immersive session titled “Consent as Ceremony: Learnings from Nurturing Safe Connections in Indigenous Play Parties.” Elena, known for weaving cultural rituals and deep respect for consent into her facilitation practice, provided profound insights into how we can integrate these sacred traditions into our own work.

The session began with Elena’s warm aloha and a traditional chant, or oli, inviting ancestors to guide the participants. Through this powerful opening, Elena demonstrated the importance of connecting with the land and community—using rituals to ground and center both the facilitator and the participants. This deep, intentional connection is foundational in her work, and she encouraged everyone to explore how their own rituals can help deepen their connection to the spaces they facilitate.

Relational Accountability

One of the core practices explored was relational accountability, or the idea that facilitators are shaped by their place, their ancestry, and their community. Elena asked participants to reflect on their “mauna” (mountain) and “wai” (water), asking them to think about the places that sustain and connect them. This exercise wasn’t just about physical geography—it was about understanding how our stories, identities, and the places we come from shape our perspectives and our practices. It was a deeply reflective practice, encouraging each participant to consider how their own background and context influence their facilitation.

The session also explored the power of consent—not just as an ask but as an offering. Elena guided participants through a simple yet profound exercise: Janken Po Rockstar, a playful take on rock-paper-scissors that allowed participants to practice offering and receiving with full consent. By integrating play, Elena demonstrated how consent can be woven into the very fabric of facilitation, creating space for vulnerability, trust, and authentic connection.

Elena also shared her unique perspective on indigenous play spaces, explaining how these communities use clear, structured rituals to ensure that participants are both physically and psychologically safe. Consent, she emphasized, is not just about asking for permission; it is about creating a reciprocal space where both the offering and the receiving are valued equally.

Gratitude Circle

The workshop culminated in a gratitude circle, where participants were invited to express appreciation for those around them. This circle, filled with non-sexual but consensual physical touch, offered a moment for reflection on how physical touch can help deepen connection and build trust in a facilitated space. The exercise left participants moved and reflective, with many sharing that it had been an important step in rebuilding trust and intimacy after the isolation of the pandemic.

Elena’s session was a powerful reminder of the importance of bringing intentionality and care into every step of our facilitation practices. By weaving together consent, cultural practices, and deep relational care, Elena provided the tools to build safer, more inclusive spaces for everyone involved.

Watch the full video below:

Transcript of Elena’s Session:

Elena Farden:
[foreign language 00:00:14]. So aloha to all of you with gratitude and love and compassion. My name is Elena Farden. I am from Ka’aihe’e in Makiki on the island of Oahu, and I grew up in Kaimuki. I ask for your indulgence in just a quick moment to allow me to open the space in a way that I do within my practice. And then, I would love to be able to share this with you to see how you might share this in your practice.

MUSIC:
[foreign language 00:00:53].

Elena Farden:
This chant or oli that I offer with you is something that’s written for all of us, not just for those that grew up and was born in Hawaii. But this is an opening mele or song or chant that we often use when we’re entering into new spaces. And we’re basically asking for our ancestors and those past and present to be with us. Huna o na mea, huna no’eau show us those hidden teachings, those learnings that are there. And E Hō Mai is really asking them, in this journey, let us not be alone. Come be with us. We invite you in with us. We invite you to guide us.

So I share this with you and ask as you’re looking at these words that may be a little bit different from you. How as you as a facilitator? What are your rituals? And how you’re connecting relationship and intention when you come into a new space? I believe we all have these rituals. It may not look like this, but there are ways in which your rituals and your practice can deepen your intention when you’re coming into different spaces that may have different beliefs or different culture. So we’ll share a little bit more about that.

Before I do, and thank you for allowing me that time, a proper introduction of who I am. I shared my greeting earlier. I asked for knowledge to be here, but who am I as a person? Again, Elena Kavai’ala Uluwehi Onau’una Saba’ina’el Farden. You can call me Elena. I answer to almost anything. I’m born and raised on the island of Oahu in Hawaii. I was born under the Malu or the protection of Le’ahi, which is here. You may know it as a different name or Diamond Head, an iconic mountain that we have in Waikiki. It is known for its shape that looks like the tuna of the fish.

And in ancient times prior to tourism and our overpopulation, it was used to light the way for ships that were out at sea to come home. So I think about this place as I might do in my facilitation. What is the light that I’m wanting to bring? How do I help guide them back if they are something that needs to be rescued? How do I bring things home that belong home? And then with the same mauna or mountain, the rains that sustain me, the fresh water that sustain me, so that I can be abundant and sustain myself and grow. The name of that rain is Apuakehau, and it means a basket of dew.

This is also the name of the rain and the stream. And there was so much rain, so much so that within Waikiki itself, it was known as a very abundant place of fertile land, lots of food in order to grow and feed thousands and thousands of people. So these are the two things that guide me. And when I introduce myself to new places, I always connect them to a place. What is my mauna? What is my mountain? What is my fresh water source? So I’m going to ask and take some time for you folks to do the same thing. You have on your tables. So we’re going to delight in some joy.

And I’m going to ask you to take about five to seven minutes, and think about where you come from. What is your mauna or your mountain? And what is your wai or your fresh water source? I am learning from Adam that Dallas does not have a mountain range. No. So if you do not think about a landmark, I think on day one there was a participant in this back corner perhaps who had shared one of the trailing edges with Dom’s presentation that one of her things is to look out the window to see the Golden Gate Bridge.

So if this is a landmark, a city skylinescape, something that connects you to that place. It may not be a mountain, then I want you to think about that and draw that. If you don’t know your water source, you may be as Alyssa is here, an ocean person. She needs to be near the ocean. You can identify a saltwater source. So let’s take a few minutes. And perhaps if we have some music, but if not, it’ll just be me and you thinking through your mountain and your freshwater source.
All right, I know we still have folks drawing. You’re going to still be able to hold on to them, and we’ll still have some time. You’ll have a minute to share this out in just a little bit. But as we are moving forward, I just want you to continue to think about what is your mountain, your mauna, your landmark? What is it that tethers you to a place that allows you to have a relationship that you do? And with that, also thinking about what sustains you, and why is it so important that you tie your identity to a place?

So relational accountability. When we’re coming into places, we are not coming in as individuals. We’re coming in as people that are shaped by our place where we come from. It could be our organization, it could be where we grew up, it could be our childhood. We are also shaped by our ancestry. So not just your own ethnic heritage. But for example, coming into this space here, I might change the way I introduce myself by the ancestry or genealogy of my knowledge. I am an alumna of the Voltage Control Facilitation Certification program.

These are ways that I want to connect. Why is it important for me to connect? Because I want to know, Adam’s from Dallas, but his parents are from Wyoming. I’m from Hawaii, but I’m trying to build connection. What is it something that we have in common besides eating tacos from a truck in a dive bar, right? These are things that I’m looking for as I think about the reciprocal framework of these things. So on the other side here in this picture I have He aha kau hana? I know I wrote it in Hawaiian.

I was thinking English. But basically it’s saying, what is your work? What is your hana? Your hana is your work. So I want you to think of your reciprocal framework as, how am I reframing how I introduce myself by my connection, by my belonging and my purpose? It sounds nebulous, but we’re going to talk it through together. And your mauna, your mountain and your wai or your river will come into play with that. So this is mine. Connection is meaning where am I coming from?
So coming into a place, whether it’s here or in Hawaii or in a new community context, I might say, “My name is Elena. I’m coming from the waters of Apuakehau sheltered by mauna le ahi famous for lighting the path home for those far out to sea. I’m connected to this space today here at the Facilitation Summit because I believe in facilitation as a powerful leadership practice that can steward a collective towards meaningful change.” It doesn’t have to be that long, but the connection is basically asking you, where are you coming from? What place? What organization? What’s your framing stepping into this place? Why are you here? What’s your purpose?

Belonging or influence. Growing up in Hawaii, we have a very big extended family. For those that are also similar in that space, people will often ask you, “Who do you belong to?” Or, “Who are your parents?” And basically, they’re asking that to say, “If you act up or get out of line, I need to know who to report to, so who do you belong to?” In this context, I’m asking, what are you carrying with you? Who do you belong to? What is your tie? Building on your connection. So for me, I might introduce myself using belonging influence as, I carry with me the wisdom of my ancestors and mentors that knowledge is a responsibility.

I also carry the teachings from Voltage Control as an alumna of the Facilitation Certification and facilitation practitioners of art of hosting and such communities that are dedicated to a deep community of practice for facilitators to lead with purpose and cultivate conversations that matter and foster growth. Obviously, I love to talk a long, long time. It doesn’t have to be this long. It can be short. But basically, who do you belong to in your influence is asking you, what are you carrying with you? What are you bringing into this space?

And then, last is purpose. Always building on the connection and the belonging. Why are you here? Why are you called to be here today? Why now? Why this place? And what is it that you’re bringing to add to this table of learning of knowledge? So for me, I would say, “And today I’m here to share what I know and what I’ve learned about rituals of consent and how I can support an authentic connection.” So back to your mauna and your wai as your tether to your place and identity.
I’m going to give you time now to also start to maybe write out or draw out your connection. I come from where? Where are you coming from? Your belonging, I carry with me this. My purpose, I should say your purpose. And today, I’m here to share this, to gain this, to do this, to feel this, to accept this. Can I help care for any questions with connection, belonging, and purpose as you folks begin to script out your identity and your introduction?

All right, so working individually is helpful, helps us to zone in on our thoughts, get something down. But we are social creatures by nature. We know that we need each other. So I’m going to ask you to work or invite you to work in pairs and to share your introduction with someone else, either on your table or someone next to your table to help you with… And I’ll put it back once. Your connection, your belonging, and your purpose, introductions or your statements. I’m asking you folks to also give each other feedback, ask questions throughout our sessions together in the past day. We’re leaning in with curiosity. We’re practicing. We’re being vulnerable. And can I help care for any questions, any instructions that need clarity, any support that I can provide?

Stephanie:
So you have a deep cultural and heritage. I come from nowhere and everywhere. What does that look like?

Elena Farden:
I would invite you to think about what are places that shaped you? It could be an organization. It could be a club or a team. It could be something about your hometown where you grew up that may not be your home, but something about that place. It could also be, for example, I grew up in Hawaii, but my young adulthood was spent in California going to college, I do consider Los Angeles a second home for me.

So in a way, I could pick two places. I could say within Glendale, California is also home for me. I could pick Deukmejian Mountain or Brand Park as maybe my mauna or the rivers that run through it. It could be something that way. So I would think about what are the places that shaped you, influenced you, impact you in your life. It doesn’t have to necessarily be the home you grew up in. It could be a different place. It could be a person, it could be a landmark, it could be a team. Is that helpful? Yeah. Good question. Other thoughts?

Speaker 4:
Stephanie, I was the same as you trying to figure what my Dallas connection is, but Mike gave me some great advice. He said, “Think back to your childhood.” And I grew up in Tatum. It’s a small town, but I drew it out, a farmhouse with a fire coming out of the fireplace, and we had 77 acres, and we had water on there for the cattle and for the horses. And I drew all that out because that’s really kind of my home. When I think about what’s really my home, where I came from.

Elena Farden:
That’s beautiful.

Speaker 4:
Yeah.

Elena Farden:
This is where your heart feel it’s most full.

Speaker 4:
Yeah.

Elena Farden:
Yes.

Speaker 4:
I have fond memories of my childhood.

Elena Farden:
Where you feel you’re most yourself.

Speaker 4:
Yes.

Elena Farden:
Where you can come in and people actually, “I know you.” I don’t have to put on a front.

Speaker 4:
Yes.

Elena Farden:
This is me exactly who I am. It could be a karaoke bar, that could be a place that defines you. Everyone knows me, my name, and the songs that I want to sing. This is my place where I feel most at home. Any other questions before I ask you to work in a pair, just to get some help and feedback with your introduction. This is I know a different muscle than most may be used to in how you introduce yourself.

But I’ll share with you the importance of it when it comes to coming into a community. Okay. So with that, I’m going to ask that you folks find a pair or someone to work with on your table or next to your table. Share them what you have so far of your connection, belonging, and purpose, and get some helpful feedback.

All right. I’m going to ask a pair from table 3, 5, 8, and that last table in the back to share. I’m going to start with the table in the back. If you folks would like to share, if you folks were able to get through a full introduction. Or what are some of the emerging thoughts in introducing yourself in this way?

Debbie Baker:
[foreign language 00:17:33]. Hello, my name is Debbie Baker. I work for the Choctaw Nation and I’m also a tribal member. So I’m also trying to embrace my indigenous culture. It’s been a challenge because I didn’t grow up in it. I’ve only spent the last 10 years learning it. Sorry, I’m a little bit nervous because I’ve never really talked in Choctaw out loud to anybody, so.

Elena Farden:
Good for you.

Debbie Baker:
On a side note, my daughter is in an apprenticeship program where she’s learning to speak the language. She spends 40 hours a week learning, so I’m really proud about that. So one of the connections that I have, which I’ve always stated from the time that I got into the certification program is that my purpose is to bring back facilitation to my tribe because we used to make decisions in a communal fashion. We made decisions that were in the best interest of the tribe. We no longer do that. We have people at the top making corporate level decisions for our tribal members, and it breaks my heart. So I really want to figure out a way to bring that back into the culture of who we are in making decisions. Thank you.

Elena Farden:
Thank you for sharing that. A pair from table eight. Something that either you were able to finish it, your introduction, or what’s emerging for you, sort of introducing yourself in this framework or format.

Speaker 6:
So I was born in Mexico where you could see the Popocatépetl and the Iztaccíhuatl, which were the mountain ranges, and you can’t see them now because of the smog. In 1981, I moved to St. Paul, Minnesota with my family. And a big definition of that is the Mississippi River. So when my stepmother, when she died, we had her ashes going into the Mississippi River. That was her wish. I said, “I come to this place to represent myself. And yes and that space, which is my site. In this community of practice, I bring my sense of coaching and teaching and appreciation of this craft to connect, to enrich, and to build momentum.”

Elena Farden:
Mahalo. Thank you. It’s beautiful. All right. A pair from table five, and then three.

Annie Love:
Hi, I’m Annie Love. I’m from Seattle via Idaho. I grew up in the mountains of North Idaho. We have a big lake, amazing freshwater lake. Mountains and water have always been a part of my life, especially water. I’ve always been drawn to it. When I moved to Seattle, it’s all the mountains, it’s all the lakes, it’s the sound, it’s everything. It’s gorgeous. One of the things when I was growing up on the farm, it was for me, I had no close friends nearby, you know? So it was only at school that I got to hang out with friends. So it was a lot of time by myself.

And so, I just became an explorer. I had a pond. Sorry, I get nervous speaking. I had a pond that I could just take my canoe on. I had a tree house that I could climb. I would just dream up all these scenarios in my head, and it kind of has led me to where I am today. I’m a world traveler as a hobby. But for my job, I am in exploration. Geocaching is exploring the world through a really fun game. And so, my background has really brought me to where I can help share that with other people. And so, my journey and purpose is to help grow myself and not be a nervous speaker in front of my team at work, so that we can do our best to help everyone else become an explorer, so yeah.

Elena Farden:
Mahalo. Thank you. Being nervous just means that we care about what we’re sharing in the space, so thank you for that. All right. Table three, bring us home. Someone would like to share?

Doug:
Hi, I’m Doug. And we had a number of good things we talked about at our table. But myself, I grew up in the Midwest in a farm family and really bring with me a lot of heritage, and legacy, and trustworthiness, and wisdom from my ancestors. But I always wanted to live on a river. And I used to go canoeing down in Missouri. And finally, I had an opportunity to get some property in Virginia. So now I live in the mountains, in the Blue Ridge Mountains, on a river, and went kayaking 21 times last year on my river. So I love where I’m living now. I came here to this session, to this two-day session to really get better at being able to guide people and bring out the best in people when I facilitate.

Elena Farden:
Thank you, Doug. So from wanting to live on the water to helping people facilitate with that flow, to growing up in Mexico over the mountains that can no longer be seen, but knowing that the river in which the ashes of your mother lay are also carried with you, to wanting to be able to explore more because this is how we interact with the world. This is how we build relationship with the world to being able to revive and revitalize indigenous languages and practices and how we make decisions. So beautiful. Thank you everyone for sharing. I appreciate that.

So with that, we also want to build on this. And so that is, you’ve done your mountain, your water, your introduction, you’ve had that share and some feedback with a trusted partner. Now, it’s also knowing your name and knowing your intention. So as I shared earlier, my name, my given name is Elena. It is a Greek origin. It means light or enlightenment. And it also ties into the way I see myself and also my tether to my land. And with that, I think it also manifests certain types of characteristics in me. I am an Aries Sun, Leo Moon, Sagittarius Rising. It’s fire, fire, fire all the way through.

And that’s what you get when you have two Sagittarius that have a child. So this is what I am. But in knowing my name, it’s also many different names. So Elena, I call it my taxpayer name. This is my taxpayer name. Kavai’ala Uluwehi Onau’una is my given, my identity name. So this name was given to me when my mother was pregnant. And my grandmother remembers smelling gardenias that would grow outside of our window. And so, that scent would sort of linger on her skin unforgettable. And so, this is the name that I carry.

Whether that has a good meaning or a bad meaning, it doesn’t say if the smell is nice or if the smell is not nice. I don’t know. But that’s the power of names in being able to grow into your name and your responsibility. So how do we get to know each other’s names? So in indigenous play parties, which we’ll not be doing here. We will be keeping our clothes on. There will be no playing of that sense, but the learnings that happen in play parties and being able to understand who’s in the room and how do we get to know each other’s name in a very consensual way.

We’re going to play a quick game. So this is called Janken Po. Many of you might know this as rock, paper, scissors. In Hawaii, we call it by its Japanese name, Janken Po. So the way it goes is you only have three things you can do, rock, paper, and scissors. Is anyone familiar with this game? Perfect. We call this Janken Po Rockstar. I’m going to ask if perhaps table three can help me demonstrate. So if you can come stand here with me, we’re just going to demonstrate for the crowd, and then we’re all going to do it. Yes.

So the way Janken Po Rockstar works, you’re going to pair off and find someone to do rock, paper, scissors. So I’ll go with JJ. And then, we’ll do this. So Janken Po, Janken Po, Janken Po. All right, so he wins. Rock defeats scissors. So now, I become JJ’s cheerleader. So what happens is I stand behind JJ and say, “JJ, JJ.” While he searches for a new opponent. “JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ. Get him. JJ.” Who’s the winner?

JJ:
Me.

Elena Farden:
Okay, so now you become part of our JJ cheerleading line. “JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ, JJ.” Who’s the winner? Brian?

Brian:
Yeah.

Elena Farden:
Now, we all become Brian’s cheerleader line. “Brian, Brian, Brian, Brian, Brian, Brian, Brian, Brian, Brian, Brian, Brian.”

Brian:
I got it.

Elena Farden:
So Brian is now the winner, so…

Brian:
My introvert’s like yelling at me right now.

Elena Farden:
Thank you for helping me with this. So what we’ll do for Janken Rockstar, you’ll start with your table first. Pair off to go Janken Rockstar. Then once you’ve done with your table, you’re going to need to expand through the room. Continue to find someone else to challenge until there are only two left. And again, if you are the non-winner, because we have no losers, if you are the non-winner, you become the cheerleader for whoever has acquired you. Any quick questions? I know that was a lot of…

Speaker 10:
1, 2, 3, hit?

Elena Farden:
1, 2, 3, hit. 1, 2, 3, reveal. Yep. And only rock, paper, scissors. No T-Rex, or Velociraptor, or dynamite. None of those will work. Any quick questions? Are we all good with Janken Po Rockstar? Until there’s two left. All right, start at your table.
Who was the winner? Steve?

Audience:
Steve.

Elena Farden:
Steve. Where’s Steve? Congratulations, Steve. So thank you everyone for playing Janken Rockstar. Now that you found another good way to find everyone’s name and also a way to cheer them on, and this is our winner, Steve.

Audience:
Whoo!

Speaker 12:
Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve.

Elena Farden:
Steve, in knowing your name and now that you’re a winner, would you be open to sharing the story about your name? How did you get your name, Steve?

Steve:
Gosh, I wish I knew better.

Elena Farden:
I’m sorry I put you on the spot.

Steve:
Yeah. No, I think my parents had a list of names that were actually relatives, and they were nixing each other’s different options. So they settled on Steve because it was not a relative, and they liked it. I was born in the time of when maybe Steve McQueen was popular and stuff like that, so there might’ve been some influence there. And then, my middle name is after one of my cranky great-grandfathers. My great-grandfather, Ed Hauser, who supposedly was just a cranky, disagreeable person unfortunately.

Elena Farden:
Truly opposite of you, huh?

Steve:
I think so.

Elena Farden:
Okay.

Steve:
You don’t need the last names. I mean, I got that. There was no choice in that.

Elena Farden:
It’s up to you if you’d like to share.

Steve:
Yeah, Bozak is a Slovak name that came from my great-grandfather who emigrated here about 150 years ago, and went from rags to riches, then got ruined by the Great Depression actually. Yeah. And it actually means either poor person or barefoot person in Slovakia, so yeah.

Elena Farden:
Thank you, Steve. Thank you for playing. Yep.

Audience:
Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve.

Elena Farden:
Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve.

Audience:
Steve, Steve, Steve.

Elena Farden:
Oh, but that is also the power of names and also the power of story. We would’ve never known that that was a story behind your name, how you got it. So with that, again, knowing your name is also knowing your intention and the things that you come with. For those of you that may not know the story of your name, I encourage you to ask your parents, your family, your grandparents, if they’re still with us. Ask them how you got your name. Where does my name come from?
If you’re so bold, ask them, “Do you remember when or how I was conceived? What’s the story behind that?” There might be a story of how your name came to be. What music was playing? I don’t know, so. So our names and our stories are important. And again, congratulations to Steve, but also thank you for sharing that story. In indigenous places, we consider stories a sacred place because you are revealing things about yourself that are open, that are vulnerable, that may not always be known. So thank you for sharing that.

All right. Our next thing with identifying our mauna, the things that sustain us, how we introduce ourselves, and now ways that we get to know each other’s name. And coming into consent as ceremony, we’re also wanting to do an offer before an ask. So I’ll model this. And the way we do this in places that I am familiar with is we always want to bring an offering. It could be food, it could be a blessing, it could be a song, it could be a moment of gratitude. It could also be an ask for forgiveness.

We want to offer that before we ask for anything, meaning we’re always filling before we’re taking something out. So in this exercise, I’m going to ask you to work in pairs. You’ll have partner A is to find an object. It could be anything on the table, and you can pretend what it might be. And you’re going to provide an offering to your partner, and it can be simple. I offer time. I want to offer you a moment of gratitude. I want to say I was inspired by your story, whatever it might be.
And your partner has to receive that offering fully, meaning I accept it. Thank you. I appreciate this. And then, you as partner A is going to ask them for something. And it could be a simple, “I would love to have a conversation with you after this. I’d love to connect with you on LinkedIn, so we can continue this conversation that we had here at the summit.” So to help model this, I would like to offer and ask for forgiveness, and that would be to Douglas and Jamie. And coming into this session, I had offered to host and facilitate one.

And during that time, I know that I was not in my best behavior and following up with communication with both Douglas and Jamie having to chase me constantly, making sure that I would turn in my materials if I had any questions, if I’m coming to the meeting, do I need anything else? Are there any materials? And it was a much, much delay on my part and impacted their planning. So with that, for Douglas and Jamie, I offer my deepest and sincere apologies for my behavior, and I know it wasn’t productive.

And going forward, I commit to having more timely communication in how I interact with you and all of Voltage Control because you are an important part of my community, so I offer that to you, and I ask that you humbly accept it. Yep. Great. Now that they fully accepted it, my ask of Douglas and Eric and Jamie is if perhaps the slides that were shared by the facilitators might be available somehow is my small ask. And if not, that’s also okay. Okay, perfect. So in pairs, either at your table or someplace else, remember we just had Janken Po Rockstar. You’ve met tons of people that you’ve cheered for. Find someone, pick who’s going to do the offering first, who’s going to receive, and then you’re going to switch.
So thank you for that. I’m wondering, I’m going to ask from the tables in the back, also table one, what it felt like to receive fully before you were asked something. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 14:
Yeah, like, oh, I’ve received it. Now, I have to give you what you’re asking for, so.

Elena Farden:
It can feel like a trap. I should’ve mentioned, you have free will to say, you could say no. I wasn’t explicit. Right. Yeah, good point. Good feedback. Our table’s in the back. Yes. Oh, in this table?

Speaker 15:
Sure.

Elena Farden:
Frank?

Frank:
I had no problem giving. I actually felt really good because for me, it’s disarming.

Elena Farden:
Sure.

Frank:
Yeah. Plus I was concerned. You know, vitamin C, the tangerine. I want to make sure she was healthy, so.

Elena Farden:
Yep.

Speaker 17:
It was so funny. I had no problem giving. I gave a wonderful little flower made of these little dots here. But I had a lot of trouble thinking about my ask, I was like, “Oh, what do I want to ask for? I don’t know if there’s anything I want to ask for.” And so, that was just an interesting observation for myself.

Elena Farden:
Feeling like a trap, being a giver, but also you just want to give. You don’t know if you want anything in exchange. That could be a thing too. Yeah, not knowing. Yes.

Speaker 18:
I guess the idea of reciprocity. It’s like if I actually need something, I’m going to give this to you. And then, therefore be able to ask you of something. I guess that’s another way you can look at it. That’s a little more cynical to me, but that’s kind of how I saw it.

Elena Farden:
No, reciprocity is a very big thing in the offering and the ask, and then also your intention. There was a hand here. Okay, I’m coming. Oh, you can…

Speaker 19:
So I gave Katie here a highlighter and I just grabbed the first thing. And then as soon as I handed it to her, it became very obvious to me that this is a magical device to mark what’s important in life and the important moments. And I’m normally not capable of finding things like that. And I think that’s a hundred percent a testament to your ability to set the frame and the spirit in this room, so thank you very much.

Elena Farden:
Thank you. Thank you. One last reflection or comment. And then, we’re going to move into our closing. Okay. So in our last 30 minutes together and on our last day, I’d like to offer a closing circle. Something that I also do in my practice within indigenous play spaces. And I did have a question from Melissa, what is an indigenous play space? So I’ll just address that really quickly to put some questions at ease. But an indigenous play space or play parties is where people from different backgrounds, either ethical, non-monogamy or consensual non-monogamy have abilities to gather together in order to have consensual play.

And that may be an open relationship, that may be a swinger type of situation, but these things need structure, they need guidance, they need consent, they need strict rules to be followed so that there is psychological and physical safety, that everyone is aware of what their expectations and rules are. And if those are not followed, what happens for the consequences because of the type of physical and mental damage that could happen. So that is what a play party is. And most of the facilitation that I do is somewhat in that space, but mostly in indigenous spaces. So I hope that helped answers your question.

With that, I’m going to quickly and nervously move to a closing circle. So I’m going to ask from this table on, if I can have you stand and come into a circle, maybe around these two tables. I know it might be difficult. But if I can ask this table 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, have you stand and come into a circle. You’re going to face inwards and face each other, and try to make a circle as best as you can.

Speaker 20:
Close on.

Elena Farden:
Close on. Yes.
All right. Now that you’re in this circle, what’s going to happen is I’m going to ask you to close your eyes. Does anyone have any injuries on your top right shoulder? Or does anyone not like to be physically touched on your top right shoulder? If so, you’re welcome to step out of the circle and just observe. There is no judgment. I just want to make sure you’re fully informed of what will happen to you.

So the touch will be… Is it okay if I touch your shoulder? It will look like this, and that’s it. If you’re not okay with that, and that’s completely fine as well. Feel free to step out of the circle and you can just observe. Okay? I’m going to ask you folks to stay within this circle and close your eyes. No peeking. All right, I’m going to ask this half of the room to surround the circle on the outside where I’m here in this way. All the way around, if you can make it.

I’m going to give the outer circle three prompts one at a time. And with those prompts, you’re going to touch the shoulder of the person that matches that prompt. You can touch as many shoulders as you want. Again, only the top right shoulder. This is non-sexual consensual touch. We are not touching anywhere else on the body. Again, you can touch as many participants in the inside circle as you want pending the prompt.

So for example, a prompt might be, touch the person on the shoulder of who you are happy that you met today at this two-day summit. Okay? All right, we’re going to go counterclockwise. When you come back to the person you are standing in front of after you’ve made your round, you’ll just pause there. Okay? Does that make sense? Clockwise. Is this clockwise? Am I making it weird?

Speaker 21:
Nope.

Elena Farden:
Okay. Okay. Okay. I will lean into the movement of the group. All right. So we’ll start inner circle, keep your eyes closed. Outer circle, please touch the top right shoulder of someone that you met today that helped change your perspective about your facilitation practice.

I see we’ve made our way around. Your next prompt for the outer circle is to touch the top right shoulder of someone you were so excited to cheer for, whether it’s Janken Po Rockstar, whether it’s hearing them share their story, whether it’s anything throughout these two days together where you saw them stand up, be vulnerable, be open to feedback and share with the whole group.

And now, for our last prompt, touch the top right shoulder of the person who you didn’t have a chance to meet, but had their presence not been here in the past two days, the experience would have not been the same. Inner circle, continue to keep your eyes closed. Outer circle, your gratitude has been seen, felt, and acknowledged. Take one step over to your left. And inner circle with your eyes still closed, put your left hand on the right shoulder of the person next to you and just thank them for being in the space with you.

You can open your eyes, sorry. That might be helpful. Yeah, so that there is no inappropriate placement of hands. Perfect. My inner circle, now with your eyes open, I’m going to ask you to step out. And our outer circle, you’re going to step in and find your place to close your eyes. Again, same for the inner circle. If there’s anyone uncomfortable or does not want to participate, there’s no judgment. You can feel free to step out at any time and just be an observer and a witnesser.
For our outer circle. You’re going to go clockwise, which I guess is this way. Yeah, that’s what I was told. Sorry, I live on an island. Any questions for the outer circle before we start? I know you had eyes closed in the beginning. All right. Inner circle, please close your eyes, settle in. For our outer circle, please touch the shoulder, top right shoulder of the person you are glad you met, that they came to this facilitation summit, that you made a connection with them, that they helped change something about your perspective in the work that you do.

All right, thanks for coming full circle. Our next prompt. Touch the top right shoulder of someone that you may not have had the opportunity to meet, but you’ve witnessed them in their quiet moments with them talking with others, with them eating or doing their work. You saw their presence here, and you just want to acknowledge that you see them. So touch the top right shoulder of someone you didn’t have an opportunity to meet, but you are grateful for their presence here.
And our last round, touch the top right shoulder of someone who did something, said something, wore something, pushed back at something, agreed with something, made you say, “Heck, yeah, this might be my people, my person. I’m so overjoyed that you attended.” Outer circle, your gratitude has been seen, felt, and acknowledged. Thank you so much. Inner circle, you can open your eyes. Please put your left hand on the right top shoulder of the person next to you, and just thank them for their presence here. Yep. All right. Everyone, you can have a seat if you wish. Thanks.

We have just a few minutes to wrap up. I’m going to ask two folks to just share. So I’ll ask you just quick reflections on the gratitude circle. Anything that stood out or how you might incorporate it in your practice, or just open thoughts and feedback would be great.

Speaker 22:
Thank you. So it reminded me how much… Well, I mean. Yeah, thanks. I was thinking. It reminded me how much physical touch is important. And I think especially following the pandemic and even before that, I think we were drifting further and further away from physical touch. And I was thinking, “Okay, how might I safely bring this into the groups that I work with?” I would like to understand this a lot more. And I’d love anything else that you might be able to offer if we were to bring this to our groups, especially the ones that don’t have the same levels of trust that I hope that we’ve built here. So thank you for that.

Speaker 23:
And strangely, I’m nonverbal. I don’t have words. Moved is the word that I have. Moved. Thank you.

Elena Farden:
Thank you both for sharing. So that closes us out. Here, I have our closing circle, our lei hipu’u. Our lei or wreath that we wear. Hipu’u is a type of tie. You can see these leaves are tied by their stem. The leaves that are here are from candlenut or kukui. They symbolize light or enlightenment. And so, why they’re tied in this knotted fashion is symbolic of fastening the knowledge that you’ve gained over time. So oftentimes, this lei style is given to graduates when they get their degree, when they move on to a new job that the knowledge and intellect and everything that they’ve imbued is fastened tightly. They don’t lose it, and they carry it with them forward.

So I offer this lei hipu’u with you folks, and thank you for being open in this gratitude circle. I have a 1, 2, 3 in case this is something that’s helpful for you. Just a quick reflection. One thing that you’d like to carry forward in your practice. Two things shared today that you are still holding questions about. They still feel nebulous maybe. And three things you want to dig into more deeper or you want to understand more. And this will just be for your own self-reflection. So thank you so much. And I have five minutes to spare. I feel like I should get a little star or something. Thank you for everyone. I close this out and I send it back to you folks.

The post Consent as Ceremony appeared first on Voltage Control.

At the 2025 Facilitation Lab Summit, Kathy Ditmore led an impactful session on “Mapping the Change Journey”, offering valuable tools and frameworks for creating successful change processes within teams and organizations. This session focused on using a canvas as a “compass” to guide projects toward success and aligned transformation, emphasizing how to adapt and lead through change effectively.

Exploring the Canvas: Your Compass for Success

Kathy kicked off the session with an engaging icebreaker: participants placed their birthdays or favorite day on a sticky note, fostering connection and lightening the mood. This simple exercise set the tone for a session that combined reflection with actionable tools for leading change.

The heart of the session was Kathy’s introduction of the canvas, a tool she described as a guiding framework for navigating the complexities of change. The canvas wasn’t about adopting a one-size-fits-all solution—it was about offering a flexible, living document that helped teams clarify their vision, align on purpose, and identify what steps to take next.

The Journey of Change: Setting the Stage for Success

Kathy shared a key lesson from her career: change succeeds when people connect to purpose and have ownership of the direction they’re going. Her early experience as a programmer highlighted how even the most well-intentioned training efforts fall short without a clear understanding of why the work matters.

The session continued with a deep dive into the backpack essentials for change: staying open, being curious, and engaging fully. Kathy encouraged participants to leave behind preconceived methods or frameworks and focus on adapting their approach to the specific needs of the team and project at hand.

Exercise: The Tale of Two Changes

To help participants internalize the concepts, Kathy led them through an exercise titled “The Tale of Two Changes”. Attendees were asked to reflect on a successful change and a struggling one. They identified key factors that fueled the success of the former and what was missing in the latter. The group shared insights, revealing common themes: clear roles, communication, support, and leadership alignment all stood out as crucial for successful transformations.

The Canvas: Your Roadmap for Change

As the session unfolded, Kathy introduced the canvas, which was structured into three main areas:

1. Mindset: Aligning everyone around a shared vision and understanding of the “why.”
2. Execution: Defining the guiding principles, roles, resources, and risks that shape the change process.
3. Connection: Understanding stakeholders and engagement strategies to ensure that everyone is on board and moving in the same direction.

Kathy emphasized that this tool should be viewed as a living document, one that evolves as the team progresses and learns together. She also provided an example of how the canvas could be used in project rescue, helping teams reorient struggling initiatives through a purposeful re-evaluation of their vision.

Creating Clarity: Vision and Purpose

A key moment of the session focused on visioning: crafting a shared purpose and aligning everyone around the “why.” Kathy facilitated a story-building exercise to help participants break down complex ideas into manageable, clear themes. By engaging with a simple exercise that explored direction and clarity, attendees were encouraged to rethink their approach to projects—emphasizing the importance of alignment from the very start.

Practical Insights for the Road Ahead

Kathy concluded with reflections on the importance of dialogue in change processes. The canvas is a tool to guide these conversations, helping teams stay on track and adjust as needed. She shared examples of using the tool to identify potential detours, offering a framework for troubleshooting when change processes start to veer off course.

The session left participants with a renewed focus on how to approach change with clarity, empathy, and a structured plan—ensuring that transformation isn’t just about the end result, but also about the journey of alignment and ownership along the way.

The session left participants with a renewed focus on how to approach change with clarity, empathy, and a structured plan—ensuring that transformation isn’t just about the end result, but also about the journey of alignment and ownership along the way.

Watch the full video below:

Transcript of Kathy’s Session:

Kathy Ditmore:
Hello? Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yeah, okay, great. Thanks. Thank you for having me today. So, as Eric mentioned, the topic today is Mapping the Change Journey and I’ve chosen a tool, I was thinking about this, what did I want to bring in so we’re going to be looking at a canvas as a compass for your project’s success. So, while you all are settling in and as we’re getting in, if you take a sticky and go ahead and put your month and day of your birthday. And if you’re not comfortable putting that out there to everybody, just pick your favorite day and put that on the table in front of you so the other folks at the table can see the month and day, don’t need the year. So, as you’re doing that.

So, a little bit about me and why this topic is important to me. Early in my career as a young programmer, I had the opportunity to engage with a client at a different level and it was great. Kathy, you’re connecting, we’d love you to train our client’s teams how to use the system. Wow, that’s great, I’m being recognized. So, I go in and I train. Blank stares, everybody’s looking at me. It’s very uncomfortable. So, while I found I could teach them how to click buttons, how to navigate the screens, there was something missing for everyone in that room and that was their why and how the work they were doing was going to transform how they did business, was going to transform the results that they were bringing in and the outcomes that they were seeking.

So, that set in motion what is at my core. We did a little work on purpose statements yesterday so I’m going to read mine out. I’m a facilitative project delivery leader creating space for teams to align around a shared purpose and co-create their path forward. And what does that mean? I thought about this. Through my roles over my career, I’ve always been in the technical industry as a programmer, a business analyst, project manager, a change practitioner, change leader both in commercial and nonprofit. I’ve seen over and over again that change succeeds when people connect to purpose and have ownership in the direction they’re going and agency in how they adapt, they have a say. And even if their say isn’t heard … Even if their say doesn’t change the direction, it’s been heard, they can weigh in, they can frame the messaging.

As we go through today, I may use some terms. These are not industry standard terms, these are just definitions that I’m throwing out there for you. So, some reference points as we go on this journey. The first one is a project, it’s a temporary endeavor. We’re creating something new or different or making something different, it might be the next step. A change and that’s the human journey from what is to what will be, also known as transition. Done well, it’s nice. Not done well, looks a little like Swiss cheese. In fact, I think Prosci likes to use that term. As much as I love Swiss cheese, it’s probably not a great way to do change. Change leadership, it’s creating that space and the conditions for teams to navigate the change together. And project rescue, I do reference this at some point. So, when I talk about a project rescue, I’m talking about reorienting your struggling initiatives through purpose.

Any things folks would want to add? Questions? All right. So, a little about our journey today, a bit of a guide for you. First thing we’re going to do is we’re going to check our backpack essentials. We’re going to check what we don’t want to carry with us as we go on this journey and we’re going to check those things that we want to keep in mind as we go through. We’re going to explore patterns in change, we’re going to explore change dynamics, we’re going to discover our compass, today we’ll use the canvas. We’re going to practice orientation, orienting with the compass and then we’ll talk about some insights for the road ahead. So, hopefully, you all are ready to go on this journey.

So, the backpack essentials. The first one, stay open and stay curious. I had some particular notes on this one and it’s really about … This may be familiar territory for a lot of you but try to approach it with fresh eyes. Engage fully beyond your methods. So, this isn’t about doing the right way so leave your methods, we’re talking about things you don’t want to carry on your backpack. This isn’t about Prosci, not about Cotter, not about Lewis models of chains, leave all that aside. This is about the process we’re going to be going through as far as how we use this tool and it should apply regardless of a method. Ask you to lean in the detours because it’s in those spaces that your learning happens and then make it real. As we’re going through, I’m coming from one perspective. Each of you have different backgrounds so think about what you’re going to be able to pull from today to bring into your practice with your customers and how you show up and how you bring your teams along on their journey.

Is there anything folks would like to add to the agreements today? Great. So, our first exercise is going to be exploring the tale of two changes. Each of you, I’m sure, has been through a change that went really well but you’ve also been through a change that just went not quite so well, it struggled. This poor guy, he’s trying to limp over the finish line, it’s quite sad and there’s cost to that. I think earlier it was mentioned, the adoption, that can be painful. So, I’d like each of you to think about, and I’m going to put it on the next slide too, the instructions, what are some key factors that gave momentum to a change done well. Think about that change, think about how you felt, how the team engaged, what was right about that particular endeavor and the same for your struggling change. What was missing from the change that struggled?

So, we’re going to do this. Step one, everybody got their birthday or their favorite day on the table, that’s actually step four. But go ahead and take a piece of paper, your sticky notes, fold it in half or use the individual sticky notes. Individually, take a couple minutes and think about both of those, a change that went well and a change that didn’t go quite so well and pull out those key factors of what contributed or what was missing. Then you’re going to pair share at your table and, if you have an odd number at your table, you’re welcome to triple up or look at somebody from another table and create your sticky notes and then you’re going to table share. You can use the backside of the giant canvas and put out your sticky notes, theme them out and I’d like, as a table, for you to pick your top three for both. And your spokesperson, lucky winner today, if you don’t have a volunteer, if you have a volunteer, that’s great. But one way to find your volunteer is whoever has a day that’s closest to today. And if your birthday’s today, happy birthday. So, with that, we’ll let you go for a few minutes.

Okay, you should start moving to your table shares. You may not have all completed getting to your top three so, if you have a few more to read out, that’s fine. But that looks like there was a lot of great discussion happening so I’m really curious to go around and hear from folks in the room. Who would like to share for … We’ll start with the change that went well. What were some of the key factors that gave momentum? And mics will go around.

Speaker 2:
Okay. So, there was a couple of key things that came out from our table on what were success factors. One of those being that the organization supported a culture of change and a culture of experimentation so that people were more accepting of change. We just know we’re changing and we have a purpose for it and we’re evolving and to expect it. So, that was one of them. Another program that was used for some change was some early adopters that accepted the change, were able to proactively advocate for the benefits of those change and speak to it in a positive format. And then the last one is buy-in from the top down, that’s always a big one. Making sure that leadership understands, accepts and clearly communicates the change and the need and the why and that they can speak to it.

Kathy Ditmore:
Oh, thank you. Excellent. Are there things folks would want to add to that? Any other table want to add to that?

Speaker 3:
Hi. It is my birthday today so … I think there’s another birthday too.

Kathy Ditmore:
Whoo, happy birthday.

Speaker 3:
I think there was another birthday as well. Was there?

Speaker 3:
Yes.

Kathy Ditmore:
Who was it?

Speaker 3:
Okay, close.

Speaker 3:
Cool. So, for positives, we said that effective communication was essential and using one standardized system, people know what to expect, how you’re going to be communicated to in a certain timeframe. One that I brought up that was a bit, I think, unique was we call it the source booth at a company, our company and it’s that there’s one place to find all the information you’ll need. It’s equal opportunity so everyone has access to it, everyone has permission. If you’re out of office, you come back, you know where all the details are, it’s right there in the source of truth. And then third, having lead time. So, if you’re going to make a change, we made a big payment provider change at our company recently, we had a few months lead time and that wasn’t really enough. So, the more time, the better to make that change possible.

Kathy Ditmore:
Wonderful. Thank you for sharing and I appreciate that source of truth, that central place that speaks a little bit to the agency that people can find their information as well. Anybody else want to add to that?

Stacy:
I’ll go. Hi, I’m Stacy, my birthday’s on Friday.

Kathy Ditmore:
Happy birthday.

Stacy:
One that came up again and again for us was really clear roles and responsibilities. So, everybody knowing what their job is and what their purpose is, that’s the biggest one. And then just affirmation that you’re valued and knowing that you’re valued and trusted, that was another big one for went well.

Kathy Ditmore:
Great, thank you. We have one more in the back and then we’ll move to change that struggled.

Jackie:
Okay. I’m Jackie, my birthday is in about three weeks so I just put myself out there.

Kathy Ditmore:
Happy birthday.

Jackie:
So, I’ll just try to add the ones that we haven’t already had but we talked about not just clarity of vision but having a shared vision and purpose certainly contributes to a successful outcome. Believing in yourself to make the change, doing the internal work as the facilitator and to have the right people in the right roles. In other words, a match of talents and skills with what a project needs and what people want to give to the project to have a successful outcome.

Kathy Ditmore:
Excellent, thank you very much. So, I’m sure there’s a lot more folks can add on but a lot of things stood out here. I am curious, before we compare the two, who would like to share some of the findings for what was missing in a change that didn’t go quite so well?

Harry:
My name’s Harry, birthday is in 10 days.

Kathy Ditmore:
Happy birthday.

Harry:
One was actually understanding the difference between workload and the resources you had. So, even if you have the great plan, have you actually understood the resources available to make the change? Another one was either missing wise or even bad ones that don’t resonate with the group. And the last one was also the forced feelings you get, isn’t this exciting. If it’s not exciting, you don’t want to nod your head and agree but you may not have the space to disagree so, yeah.

Kathy Ditmore:
Thank you, appreciate that. Anybody else?

Speaker 8:
Okay, I [inaudible 00:13:46]. I was going to say empathy.

Kathy Ditmore:
Yeah.

Speaker 8:
But also, one thing that came up at this table is having leadership say that they’re open to feedback but appearing not to take it seriously. That seems to be a rough one.

Kathy Ditmore:
Appreciate that. I heard a lot of hmmm on that and I’m seeing a theme to the sessions we had earlier too. So, anybody else? One more. Please, go ahead. Oh, we’ve got one. We’ve got two more. Thanks.

Speaker 9:
Oh, sorry.

Speaker 10:
Sorry, I did not mean to cut in. We didn’t discuss it at our table but, when you were talking about leadership, it reminded me of how many changes I’ve seen fail because senior leadership is not aligned. So, it’s not enough to just have that change be communicated from the top down but the top needs to be on the same page first.

Kathy Ditmore:
Thank you for that.

Speaker 11:
At this table we did a little bit of a grouping and we didn’t quite get into all of the not well but I do see some repetition of progress report. So, understanding how that change is being received and how is it going so you can adapt and you might get all the way down the line and realize this didn’t actually go well but we didn’t have that visibility into what’s going on.

Kathy Ditmore:
Yeah, I appreciate that. I’m curious, as you’ve heard things today such as around support, things that contributed to things that went well, support experimentation, early adopters, buy-in from the top down, knowing the whole system, how to communicate, knowing where that source of truth is, clear roles and responsibilities. And then I’m going to jump, I know there were a lot more, I’m going to jump over to things that contributed to change that didn’t go quite so well. Understanding the progress, feeds a little bit into maybe the experimentation, senior leadership alignment, being open to feedback, having empathy, those forced feelings and workload and resources. Are folks seeing any themes or connections come out across those? What about how people are coming together? I see a hand over there.

Speaker 12:
Whether you’re focused on the change or on the people experiencing the change? It’s the customer focused as opposed to the-

Kathy Ditmore:
Both.

Speaker 12:
… us focused.

Kathy Ditmore:
Well, we’ve been through … This has been great discussion and it sounds like everybody’s had experience with both sides of change and I’m struck with something interesting here. So, when changes work, it sounds like people seem to be moving the same direction whether it’s they know their roles, their senior leaders are aligned, they know where to find information, they know what the experience should be, there’s a feedback loop, there’s empathy. So, there’s a clear path of how you’re going to be moving forward together. So, I’m going to move on to another exercise, this is … Take this with us as we bridge over to … We’re going to go over to another interesting idea here. So, I want to dig into the idea of direction and clarity and I’m going to jump over to another exercise. We got the time.

We’re going to do this one relatively quickly. What’s going to happen is I’m going to put three images on the screen. You can use those images however you want for three minutes as a table to build a story, three sentences. If you want to go to four, it’s okay, you want to keep it short. Story needs to begin with once upon a time. You can use those images however you want. You can use them literally, you can ascribe meaning to them, you can think about what’s happening outside the frame, what happened before, what happened after. You can think about the individuals that might be in these images, what they’re talking about, what they’re experiencing, what they’re feeling. You can use those images however you want to build a story that’s three sentences. Are you all ready? And pick one person at your table to be a scribe. If you do not have a volunteer, pick the person who has a birthday closest to July 4th.

Image one, image two, image three and you have three minutes. So, I know it was a lot to squeeze in in three minutes, that three minutes goes fast. But don’t worry, you have an opportunity. I’m now going to give you a theme. The moment we chose to leap. Still three sentences about, still once upon a time, you can still use these images however you want in any order and I’d like you to take a look at your story, see if there’s something you want to shift in your story or adjust. And you have two minutes for this. I know that was a quick exercise but I am curious, in the room, is there anybody here that actually adjusted their story? I’d love to hear from at least one of your tables, talk to me about that.

Speaker 13:
The first story is about once upon a time my grandfather and granddaughter created a magic garden. They lived on top of a hill, had a steep Securitas road to get there until one day Gargamel showed up in his hot air balloon and then they made the garden disappear by going invisible. How we changed this was the grandfather and granddaughter lived a happy vegetarian life, plant-based vegetarian life until one day Gargamel showed up with his pet pig, crashed the balloon, killed the pig, they barbecued it and everyone lived happily forever.

Kathy Ditmore:
That’s fantastic. So, how did you get there as a table?

Speaker 14:
So, part of it was that we asked people who hadn’t contributed for the first time to contribute and then we got super silly. Not silly, we were very serious.

Kathy Ditmore:
Okay. Is there anybody … You had a shift to your story there, it was a bit of a rewrite. Did anybody do a complete rewrite?

Crystal:
Well, so … Hi, I’m Crystal.

Kathy Ditmore:
Hi, Crystal.

Crystal:
We in our group, we wanted to try out what doing something bigger could look like and then, once we got the theme, we rewrote quite a bit. So, ours reads, once upon a time, humanity was born. We needed to be equipped with tools to leap. So, then we added leap obviously. To see problems from above, support each other, to be part of each other’s journey. So, you can see problems from above, hot air balloon, helping each other and cultivating and then that journey.

Kathy Ditmore:
Great, thank you. So, for those of you who shifted, and thank you for the table shares, fantastic stories. For those of you who felt the shift, what made shift? Was it the theme that made you shift?

Speaker 16:
More direction.

Kathy Ditmore:
Anybody else? Agree? Anything else that may have contributed?

Kathy Ditmore:
I’m sorry?

Speaker 18:
That we had a second set of time.

Kathy Ditmore:
You had a second set of time, that’ll help too. You now know what it’s about as well, right? So, I appreciated the more direction and so, going on the theme of what we’re hearing about people being aligned, having purpose, I’d like to introduce a tool you may want to use. On your tables, there’s small versions, it’s a canvas. Many of you are already familiar with canvases. The business model canvas. If any of you do lean change, you’re familiar with the lean change canvas that came out in the early 2000s. There’s lots of canvases you can use. My first experience with a canvas was early in my project management days, I had a sponsor who didn’t want to read a charter. Put a document in front of him, his eyes glazed over. Project on a page, it was our canvas. So, there’s a lot of great uses for a canvas and you can tailor them however you’d like.
Today’s canvas is set up on three sections. The middle is your mindset and that’s aligning everybody. It’s aligning on your vision, feeding on what was offered earlier around that compelling future state, what are you aiming to achieve. Helping people understand the significance, the why this has to happen, what happens if we don’t do it now. And then describing the benefits to the organization, to the team, to your customers, to them as individuals. On the left, I call this execution. This is the guiding principles, this is what’s going to guide your decision making. It could be your even overs, it could be your polarities you have to work through, that was a topic that came up with the group yesterday. But how are you going to make those decisions in the project? How are your teams going to be allowed to make decisions?

Your resources and roles, we heard about roles and responsibilities earlier. Who do you need on this project? What are their roles going to be and where are your gaps is most important as well and how are you going to support those people? Your change risks and mitigations. So, this is looking ahead and saying where are those detours going to happen on this project, what do I need to worry about, what does my team need to worry about and you’d want to be tracking those even at a high level. The canvas isn’t meant to be in great detail, you may have a lot of supporting materials underneath of this but it’s meant to pull out the top themes, the top highlights.

On the right, I call this connection. It has your stakeholders and impacts, these are your groups. This is very high level. How are they going to be impacted? Their jobs are going to be impacted, their compensation approach is going to be impacted, who they report to, processes, maybe tools they use, technology, usually track that separately. So, it gives you an idea of what you need to worry about and how you may need to make them aware of things or engage them which is the next group, engagement. Each of these groups like to be communicated to in a particular way. Not everybody is going to read an email. In fact, I’m someone, if you send me an email, it’s the last thing I’m going to read if I have time at the end of the day. If it’s urgent, you need to message me. So, how do people want to be engaged with? How do they want to communicate back to you? How are you going to capture their input? What are the channels? Maybe it varies by team. What can you leverage within the organization?

In the bottom right, there’s progress and success measures. Somebody mentioned experimentation earlier, those quick wins. I worked on a project recently and we found that, before we implemented the system, we could actually roll out pieces of the process that needed to change beforehand. So, those were experiments we were able to push out in advance, they were quick wins for the organization. So, where are those quick wins either within your teams or within the larger project? That’s a quick overview of this version of a canvas. Any questions?

Speaker 19:
It took me a minute to figure out my question. When you’re in the beginning of a project, do you fill this out all at once? Is there some living part of this over time? What’s the lifetime of this and this information?

Kathy Ditmore:
Yeah. So, this is meant to be a living breathing document and the beauty of a canvas is you create it for your engagement. This is one. Underneath of this which I didn’t share today, teams have a canvas. They have the vision at the top but then they have the impact specific to their team and what they need to do to support the change or what they need from the organization to support the change. So, this is all visible and all bubbled up. I have a slide later we’ll talk through where you could use it but, yes, initiation, you’d start filling it out. You could fill it out on your own after interviewing or you can gather your teams like we’re going to do in our next exercise and capture the collective intelligence and have a starting point.
So, let’s read the instructions first. You have a big canvas on your table so feel free to open that up and use it. Today, I was thinking you’d want to focus on, where I like to start, vision purpose, significance, the why now and the benefits. You might find as you’re working through this that you come up with ideas that belong in other blocks and that’s okay, put those stickies in those other blocks, you’ll come back to them later. I gave you a prompt if you’re doing a vision, you come up with your own but I’m sharing one if that helps you. Your approach today is, first, individually and I’m going to give you scenarios. Is individually, quickly capture your thoughts on sticky notes once you read the scenario. One idea per sticky around the vision.

So, you’re going to read the questions here. What’s your why? What’s your cause? What’s your purpose? What pains exist in your significance? What happens if you don’t do it now? Why is it important now? And your benefits. What are your anticipated improvements to your employees, the organization or external parties? Then, as a table, you’ll look at the stickies, please start just placing them in the middle sections. Talk as a table and start grouping them coming up with themes and go ahead and create your vision. Try to draft one and we’re going to have a table readout. If you don’t have a volunteer spokesperson, we’re going to pick the person whose birthday is closest to Halloween. All right, we’ve got at least one lucky winner in the room.

So, for this exercise, I’m going to cut us short a little bit because I do want time for us to have dialogue so I apologize for that. I’m going to give you first three minutes to start doing your stickies individually then you can go into working as a table and I will give you 10 minutes for that. So, a total of 13 minutes to work through this and then listen for the chime. Any questions before you start? Oh, yes, hold … The most important thing, I was so excited. You also have on your table, I apologize, a scenario.

Audience:
Aaah.

Kathy Ditmore:
Aaah, the magic thing. Got so excited, sorry. So, you have three scenarios, I’m going to put those up and then I’ll come back. Your first adventure is your group has been given a $10,000 budget and you’re going to go on an unforgettable trip. You have different ideas about your vacation and you need to ensure that trip aligns with your group’s priorities while staying in budget. Your second scenario and the third is … The second scenario is around onboarding. Everybody’s lived that, experienced that. You have employees that are struggling in the first 90 days feeling lost, disconnected and unclear in expectations. So, your leadership wants to redesign onboarding for a smoother, more engaging experience while balancing efficiency and personalization.

If you pick the third scenario, Douglas is going to want to see this at the end. So, the third scenario, as facilitators, you understand the power of well-designed experiences, you are loving the conference this year and you want to help with next year. So, Voltage Control is welcoming your input as they begin planning next year’s event to maximize engagement, connection and actionable takeaways. Your team has been tasked with mapping key changes.
So, as a table, quickly pick your scenario. You have a couple minutes to start drafting your individual stickies, put them on this canvas and then start working together to theme those and build your vision.

Speaker 21:
Question.

Speaker 22:
Quick question.

Kathy Ditmore:
One question.

Speaker 22:
So, I’m hearing a lot of language that’s big picture, vision and then I’m hearing other language that’s pretty specific on how to. Is it intended to be intertwined? It’s a little-

Kathy Ditmore:
It’s intended to bubble up the themes. So, sometimes folks can only look at the detail and then you can bubble up your themes.

Speaker 22:
Okay.

Kathy Ditmore:
So, this canvas is intended to really be high level, maybe later supported by more detail.

Speaker 22:
Okay.

Kathy Ditmore:
Thank you. And you should start, working as a table, putting your stickies in the middle. So, I’m going to call for a pause in conversations and I know that’s a quick exercise. First, you would not go this quickly in your business changes, at least I hope not. How does this feel for folks using something like a canvas to work through this? Yes?

Speaker 23:
Thanks. I think I saw a difference between high level thinking and low level thinking and there was maybe even some discordance, discord over that, yeah.

Kathy Ditmore:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that and we’ll come back to that. That does happen at times depending on the groups. We have a few more.

Speaker 12:
It was really useful to have buckets to put our ideas into but it was too much all at once. It would’ve been nice to roll out just the center strip and then the next piece and have a build.

Kathy Ditmore:
Great, thank you.

Speaker 24:
Yeah. To plus one on that, it was hard because there were just so many, I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, where do I even start?” and then of course I went straight to solutions.

Speaker 25:
And they [inaudible 00:33:22].

Speaker 24:
Oh, of course.

Kathy Ditmore:
Great, thank you. Anybody else?

Stacy:
I have a microphone but I can’t figure out where all the voices are coming from. But I noticed there’s a really delicate balance between the beauty of the constraints and the prompts and then also allowing yourself to veer off the prompts when it happens and allowing that to happen organically.

Kathy Ditmore:
Absolutely, thank you. Anybody else? Over in front.

Speaker 3:
I sense some personal resistance to using such a formal system for … We used prompt one so it was a vacation. I was like, “Oh, I’m overthinking this, I don’t want to do that but I think it actually is I’m not overthinking it.” All these things are necessary but using them for a personal project feels like almost inappropriate but it actually is appropriate. You know? Does that make sense? I don’t know.

Kathy Ditmore:
I think it does. We have one more over there and then I want to see how … Did other folks align, run into the same things? I’ve heard discord, the ability to stay within the constraints but also permission, allowing yourself to veer off.

Speaker 26:
I think we did good and I love templates to help group our thinking. I think what is additionally helpful is examples. I think it would have been good if we would have seen an example, that would have just given us a little bit of a different-

Kathy Ditmore:
Different overview.

Speaker 26:
… perspective or helped us a little bit where we struggled at which bucket … And like you said, it doesn’t really matter which bucket it goes into but that would have helped us, I think, be not as confused.

Kathy Ditmore:
Okay. Indeed, thank you. One more.

Monica:
I just wanted to comment that I’m used to someone’s being like, “Fill out this canvas, Monica, for your product strategy,” and I’ve always really struggled with that and I think one of the reasons why is because I was doing it in a vacuum and there wasn’t a sequential process of prompts and thought to talk about that. I think that that’s the expectation that these conversations are happening and so it should be easy for me to go and synthesize it. So, I appreciate wanting to take this back and say how might we fill out this canvas a little differently, that’s more meaningful where everyone is more engaged.

Kathy Ditmore:
Interesting. The dialogue. Yeah, not in a vacuum. We have one more.

Speaker 28:
Do I go?

Kathy Ditmore:
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 28:
Okay. One of the things that was interesting for our table that I had to adjust is … We picked two for the onboarding and I actually facilitated my company’s onboarding transformation and so I’m sitting here going how do I share thoughts without, during a scramble, it’s human nature, who has experience at this and then you’re pulling in that but then I didn’t want to stifle other people’s ideas either. So, there was the natural tension of how do we have random ideas show up but who has actual experience doing this and how do you leverage it. So, I think, as facilitators, we have to leave space for the two types of people because I think there’s value in both.

Kathy Ditmore:
Indeed. Thank you for sharing that. And I appreciate that … Oh, we have one more over here.

Speaker 10:
I was just reflecting on a couple of comments around doing it all at once was challenging and it just made me think about how important it is for teams to be aligned on a north star. I was just wondering, if we had all agreed on our vision and then built out the template, would we have come from so many different perspectives? So, just something that dawned on me is like, “Oh, starting with the vision, starting with why”-

Kathy Ditmore:
Always start with that.

Speaker 10:
… “Is so important.”

Kathy Ditmore:
Thank you for that. Going to the compass, right? Always know the direction you’re going. Anybody else? We have one more, a couple more over in the back.

Speaker 28:
Yeah. So, I was struggling also, I noticed myself, I was reading every sentence and I was overwhelmed, my fault maybe. But I was thinking what if all of this was blank except for the colored items and we would have started with questioning what kinds of questions do we want to ask ourselves regarding guiding principles and, afterwards, maybe adding the missing important questions, et cetera. So, you take more ownership as a team or an organization towards what’s guiding principles for us instead of saying these aspects.

Kathy Ditmore:
Right. And that’s fantastic. Yes, the tool is intended for you to create your path forward together. Questions offered are certainly just for the purposes of today and I think that’s a wonderful idea to maybe, as a team, figure out what is it you really want to be answering about your project. Speaking to the discord, you might want to think about as a facilitator who you have in the room. So, do you want to do this with your senior leaders separately from your teams first, especially if you’re working on the vision, and then work with your teams and maybe one senior leader or your teams alone and then bring everybody together but it’s all about bringing that alignment. I heard looking at the whole canvas and so, for the purposes today, yes, I shared the whole canvas. But as a facilitator, you would probably block off the blocks that you don’t want to see with your group because, indeed, it can be overwhelming to dig into this.

So, I think there have been a lot of creative ideas here offered around how it could be used and so, hopefully, folks have some thoughts on how that might apply as you bring it back. So, I’m not going to make you redo your vision but I’d be curious what people think if you’d been offered a detour. So, somebody here had mentioned dialogue. I was doing this in a vacuum. Really, the tool is intended to promote dialogue. So, if you’ve been offered a detour after doing your vision, how would that have changed your discussions? How would the tool help you? How might you use it or not? Any thoughts on that?

John Rabasa:
Hi, Kathy, John Rabasa. So, I took from this that it was like a discovery tool where you had a lot of different prompts and so this is, as you said, a living document where things may bubble up that then informs, answer the question of your vision so you make sure you don’t leave things out. I look at these detours and I think that’s probably the information that you might pick up along the way and some of them are actually very helpful because they give you more definition.

Kathy Ditmore:
Indeed. And so, when you encounter these detours, whether you use a tool like this or something else within your teams, how are you evaluating that together on what those impacts are? Again, that tool to guide that discussion. Anybody else?

Robert Britton:
Yeah, I was going to … My name is Robert Britton.

Kathy Ditmore:
Hi, Robert.

Robert Britton:
I was going to add to this that I think the timing always gets people. Especially in a workshop, you’re like, “In the interest of time or because of time or take this for 10 minutes,” and I think what we do is we shut down our thinking and it’s not really exploratory. So, when you add these detours, I think that also gives us that breath of, you know what, if we don’t get it all today, we can come back to it. So, as facilitators, I think we also need to find ways to give them space afterwards to say, hey, you’re not going to be done when you’re here, this is just a starting point so you can keep going once you leave here.

Kathy Ditmore:
Indeed, thank you. Progress over perfection. We have another one over there.

Speaker 32:
Right. So, when I saw the detour, we were doing the employee experience and that was like, “Okay, yeah, you need to ask the people that are going to go through the change what … you need to get their inputs, design it around what they prefer.” And then it triggered something, I don’t know why, a second point, sorry for hogging the mic here, but when do you go and how deep do you go into this type of exercise. And sometimes just getting to vision can take days and weeks depending on what it is. So, I’m curious what other people think about that and what you think about that.

Kathy Ditmore:
Yeah, it’s like the theme I’m picking up here which ties into this is adapting. This is iterative, this is not a once and done experiment or tool. It’s not once and done, use it as initiation. I’ll show some other points, there’s various points where you’ll use it. So, you mentioned vision could take a long time and it does. I’ve had a vision take five weeks to develop with eight sponsors, that was quite a challenge just to get to the vision and that’s all we focused on. And then, after that, we were able to start digging into some of these other areas and it’s almost like peeling back the layers of an onion. You might start and only get so far and then it marinates, people start moving down a path. You might be building out your plan, you might be mobilizing your resources, you might be working through your procurement process if you’re bringing in a new solution, you might be still doing some of your pain points discussions, they may still be underway to work through things, you might be starting to do pre-mortems.

Whatever tools you’re using, out of those, more things will come out that bring richness to your project, your goals and how you need to work together so you’re always coming back to this. It’s also recommended to make this visible, whether you’re using a Miro board, some people post it on a wall although I know many of us are hybrid or remote now. I often will take sections and make sure that, when I go in a meeting with sponsors, we go back to the vision. If something comes up, how does it play into our guiding principles? So, I’m always coming back to these and so you have to think about what’s important to you and your team, your sponsors, your project leads, your stakeholders that you need to keep bringing back to them. Because they may say, “Oh, yeah, we said that but …” I don’t know if that helps. So, it’s like layers of the onion, digging, the details will surface over time. It’s a little more agile approach to change.

Carrie:
I’m Carrie. My sense is you asked how the detours might have changed things and, if our vision is visionary and broad and big enough, then the detours should … They’re a gut check to ladder up to that to ensure that our vision is really truly the north star and that the detours should be a part of that.

Kathy Ditmore:
Yeah, definitely. Thank you. Anybody else? So, I’m going to share … This clicker’s not … Got to get our check our bearings. So, how would you connect this to your practice? We’ve heard a few things here, I hear folks starting to think about this. Any ideas? It’s okay if it marinates.

Speaker 8:
Thank you. I have more than one word. For me, looking at this and thinking about the different boxes, it seems to me that some of these would be way more flexible than others. And so, while nothing is locked down, there are areas like guiding principles or vision that maybe, if those are starting to be in question because of the tactics of engagement, that goes up to another level of leadership versus my teams would be able to really be in the tactics of what engagement is. And so, I think that that is really helpful and something that I would bring back to my practice.

Kathy Ditmore:
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. We have one over here.

Speaker 19:
Just a question. When you said a minute ago the long vision exercise that was five weeks, wondering how you landed that, how you knew you were done and did the map help? Did you go into significance of benefits and cross connect that or was it totally unrelated to that?

Kathy Ditmore:
So, with that particular audience, not everybody, when you present the canvas, they’re like, “Ah,” the eyes glaze over. I think your head’s like … Right? And you don’t have to use this canvas, any canvas but it’s really helped to guide your conversations. You can use other tools. You had asked earlier how would I do this with my sponsors. Sometimes I’m interviewing the sponsors individually, I’m collating the information and I’m sharing it out to them to make sure we’re theming it correctly and we’re then evolving a vision together. Sometimes that’s an interesting exercise because it surfaces, they haven’t necessarily talked to each other, so it surfaces a lot of those polarities or personal agendas or something else that may not tie into what I’m getting from the most senior sponsor. So, you can use different methods to surface this information and bring it together. Okay, that’s it. Anybody else?

Tamara:
I guess the first thing I would say, hi, I’m Tamara. First of all, I applaud you and everyone else who is willing to get up and present because I think facilitating a group of facilitators, speaking of F words, is the f’in hardest thing on the planet-

Kathy Ditmore:
Terrifying.

Tamara:
… because it’s hard. And so, I also want to thank you for starting with your reminders that you really asked us to stay curious and to lean into it and make it real. I really appreciate that because this gave me an opportunity to think about my own impulses as a participant facilitator. But I recognized I have a lot of impulses around the use of posters, I use a lot of these too and what I realized is, oh, when you put something in front of me, I want to read every single word, I want to make sure I got it right, how do I get an A plus, what are we going to do. But I think that it helped me realize that I have to rethink the use of some of these tools to be thoughtful about different ways that people start to enter into something like a shared space like this. So, anyway, thank you.

Kathy Ditmore:
Thank you. I’ve got a couple minutes and I’m happy to keep talking about the tool after. I want to share a couple of things. Somebody asked, “Where would you use this?” I’ve mentioned it, anywhere. Use it at project initiation, you could use it as a health check, you can use it in your strategy sessions, you can use it when you encounter detours, when you need to do a project rescue, that poor guy, just lost. You can use it for your readiness checks, you can use it for your resource shifts, you can use it any point you need to align or realign, when you’re onboarding teams, when you’re offboarding someone, who’s still filling that spot, what does that mean to how you’re approaching things and you can use it at the beginning when you’re trying to develop your strategy.

Quick example of how I might use this from a rescue perspective or when I have a project going off track. This one, I might do with not the entire team but pieces of my team. So, the paper that you have has a bunch of questions. So, I might take one of these that’s filled out for what I know about the project but then I’m going to look at it and go, “Mmm, what’s really happening?”

Speaker 35:
H, M, L, C?

Kathy Ditmore:
Oh, I’m going to get into that. High, medium, low, complete and a green check mark. So, when I identify gaps, I might talk to my sponsors and say this is a high impact to our success or a medium impact or a low impact that might prioritize what we need to work on next. You see that it was something we talked about and it’s complete, we can remove it the next time we look at it. And a check mark is telling me we’ve got some good things going on too. By the way, we worked through some incremental process milestones, we’re going to see some winds along the way and generate some noise. Someone had asked about sponsors, it takes time to work through vision, indeed it does.

In this example, I happened to have a sponsor who had made a commitment that was not part of our original vision, our original benefits and so it resulted in a pause to the project where we needed to regroup and determine how serious that was because what they were asking for was a very different project. So, while we may have achieved what we all agreed to in our charter and our vision and our benefits, it wouldn’t be what the most senior stakeholder was looking for so it would have been considered a fail. So, this is another way to use the tool to evaluate how your project is doing. Okay, time. So, I think we’ve talked about our insights for the road ahead. Using a tool like this may help in identifying that clear north star, that purpose, that vision. It’s a tool for dialogue whether you use it as is or to help frame what discussion do you want to be having with your team so they can connect around that central vision and then, hopefully, you’re delivering together well.

My last one. So, I want to say thank you to my guides along the way, I’ve had plenty of people help me. Voltage Control and Douglas, Douglas took my phone call and was like, “Yeah,” but thank you for the invitation. This was terrifying and fun and I can go down many rabbit holes and it was really hard to pick which rabbit hole to go down. John Rabasa, amazing guide and mentor. Erin Nicole Gordon of The Wayfind, she was very helpful and I really appreciated her guidance that she gave me. Mark Reilley is my boss, he’s an amazing boss, he’s super encouraging at Pew. And my dear friends Claudia who couldn’t be here this year, Randy Logan and Penny Potts, they, any phone call, just let me ramble on for hours even though I’m sure their eyes were glazing over. So, thank you all and I’m happy to chat with you at any point. Thanks.

The post Mapping the Change Journey appeared first on Voltage Control.

At the 2025 Facilitation Lab Summit, Dom Michalec led an engaging and thought-provoking workshop titled “Facilitating Transformation,” focusing on the practical aspects of creating lasting change—both personally and professionally. With a mix of theory, hands-on activities, and personal reflection, Dom took attendees on a journey of understanding how transformation happens and how we, as facilitators, can support others in driving meaningful change.

Defining Transformation: Starting with Ourselves

Dom began the session by addressing the essential question: What does transformation really mean? In his simple yet profound definition, transformation is about creating lasting change that sticks—whether for ourselves, our colleagues, our businesses, or even communities. The focus was clear: to facilitate meaningful transformation in others, we must first practice the skills of change within ourselves.

“Start with yourself,” Dom encouraged. “Practice the skills of transformation so you can help others develop those skills too.”

This message set the tone for the entire session, where personal growth and reflection were key to building effective facilitation practices. Dom emphasized that true transformation begins from within and that facilitators must be willing to embark on their own journeys of change.

The Power of Tiny Habits in Facilitating Transformation

A significant part of Dom’s session focused on how to make transformation more practical and accessible. Drawing from Behavior Design principles, Dom shared insights from Dr. BJ Fogg’s work on creating small, lasting changes through tiny habits. According to Fogg, one of the most practical ways to introduce change is to start small—tiny habits that can be integrated easily into everyday life. These small steps create momentum and build the foundation for larger, lasting changes.

“Tiny habits are not about big transformations all at once. They’re about starting small and building the muscle for change,” Dom explained. “You don’t need motivation to start. You just need to start.”

Breaking Down the Process of Behavior Change

Throughout the session, Dom guided participants through a hands-on exploration of behavior change. One of the key takeaways was the Fogg Behavior Model, which explains that behavior happens when three elements converge: motivation, ability, and a prompt.

• Motivation is the desire to perform the behavior.
• Ability refers to how easy or difficult the behavior is.
• Prompt is the reminder or cue to take action.

The key takeaway? To change behavior, we must focus on making the behavior as easy as possible to do, which eliminates the need for high motivation. For example, Dom shared a practical approach to creating tiny habits by breaking down large goals into small, actionable steps. By focusing on simplicity and celebrating success, even the smallest behavior can become a powerful habit.

Creating Lasting Change through Celebration and Identity

A central concept Dom introduced was the importance of celebration in cementing new habits. Unlike traditional notions of reward, Dom highlighted that immediate positive emotions, rather than delayed rewards, help behaviors become ingrained into our routines.

“Celebrate every small success,” Dom emphasized. “It’s the emotion that drives habits, not repetition. The more positive emotion you associate with a habit, the more automatic it becomes.”

Another critical point Dom made was about the role of identity in habit formation. He asked participants to reflect on their habits and how those habits align with their identity. When we design habits that reflect who we are and what we value, those behaviors are more likely to stick.

Practical Exercises and Insights

Dom’s session was filled with interactive exercises that helped participants apply these concepts to their own lives. One such activity invited attendees to reflect on a habit that sparks joy in their lives and how that habit reinforces their identity. By sharing these reflections with others, participants were able to connect with their motivations and understand how small habits can play a significant role in creating lasting change.

Through group discussions and individual reflection, participants discovered common themes of identity reinforcement, such as creative pursuits or physical activity, that enhance both personal and professional growth. These simple, everyday habits were identified as critical in building a foundation for greater transformation.

Key Takeaways from Dom Michalec’s Session

• Transformation begins with small steps: Focus on tiny habits that are easy to do and align with your identity.
• Celebrate successes: Positive emotions, immediately following a behavior, help solidify it into a lasting habit.
• Clarify your aspirations: Align your habits with long-term outcomes to ensure lasting change.
• Behavior design works: Focus on motivation, ability, and prompts to create change that sticks.

Dom’s session at the 2025 Facilitation Lab Summit provided both actionable insights and valuable tools for facilitators to integrate transformation into their own lives and the lives of others. His approach reinforced that lasting change doesn’t require large, dramatic shifts but instead focuses on small, consistent actions.

Watch the full video below:

Transcript of Dom’s Session:

Dom Michalec:
Thank you, thank you. Thank you, Eric. Everyone hear me all right? Perfect. Before we get started, just to bring a little energy in the room, I want to use this as an opportunity to express a little bit of gratitude for Voltage Control for hosting us. Jamie, helping to put everything together. Douglas, Eric, y’all make it run really smooth in the background. Really appreciate that.

So to get started today, obviously you can see the title of this time, Facilitating Transformation. And I think it behooves us to have a really nice working definition of what we mean by transformation. How many folks in here have been a part of a transformation effort at work, and we have no idea what it really means at the end of the day, right? When I think about transformation, I think about it in a very simple terms. Creating lasting change, whether that’s lasting change for ourselves, for others, for our colleagues, for businesses, societies, communities. Creating lasting change that actually sticks. And in thinking about it that way, I think when we go into the session right now, the best way to practice those skills of change, those skills of transformation, of creating a lasting change, is to start with ourselves. Start with ourselves, practice the skills, so when we’re ready, we can take it out to the world and we can help other people gain these skills as well.

So, what are we talking about today? In the word of modern day philosopher and my favorite athlete of all time, Allen Iverson, we’re talking about practice. Not the game, not the game, but practice. And early this morning, we practiced a bunch of different skills. Skills of changing the narrative, creating change through how we tell stories, creating change for the conditions, creating psychological safety, creating that safety net, and creating change for our own and mapping our own change journey. So today what we’re going to do, is we’re going to practice skills of change of creating habits for ourselves. We’re going to create behavior change in ourselves. I’m going to show you, as Eric alluded to, why starting small, starting tiny is usually the right place to start no matter where you are.

So for the past, what, at this point seven years, I’ve been in pursuit of answers to this question. What’s the most practical way to create a lasting change? Does anyone have any ideas? Just throw it out there. I’ll give my answer here in a moment. Yes, sir.

Speaker 2:
Just start.

Dom Michalec:
I’m sorry?

Speaker 2:
Just start.

Dom Michalec:
Just start. I love it. What other ways, what other practical ways have you? Yes, please.

Speaker 3:
Create the environment that [inaudible 00:02:58].

Dom Michalec:
Create the environment. You read the book, that’s great. All right, who else? Yes.

Speaker 4:
Document it, and then reinforce the positive feeling.

Dom Michalec:
Document it and reinforce those feelings. Yeah, okay. One more, we’ll take one more. I think I saw your hand go first.

Speaker 5:
I read the [inaudible 00:03:15] book and I think you say start small.

Dom Michalec:
Yes.

Speaker 5:
[inaudible 00:03:20].

Dom Michalec:
Small is fast there yeah, exactly, tiny. You can start at any time, no matter the conditions you’re in.

So, what we’re going to do today is we’re going to walk through basically a workshop to together where we use what I consider to be the most practical way to introduce change into your life, whether it’s personal, professional, whatever it may be. Everyone’s here for different reasons, but we’re all here to learn. We’re all here to help create change in our societies and our businesses and ourselves. Everyone’s here for different reasons, that have different motivations, different aspirations, different outcomes you’re trying to shoot for after you leave this summit. But I’ve designed this session in a way that no matter what your aspirations or your intended outcomes are for coming to the summit, you can walk away with practical change strategies that you can take with you and put into your life immediately after leaving.

So, I think this is a great working definition, or not working definition, but a great quote from, as Eric alluded to, a colleague of mine, Dr. BJ Fogg. I’ve had the great pleasure of being able to work with BJ for the past four years. There’s really two people that inspire me in this line of work that I do, one being BJ, and another one is here in the room today. Steph Weldy. Steph Weldy has been working with BJ for, what is it 10 years now?

Steph Weldy:
Just shy, yeah.

Dom Michalec:
Yeah, just shy. Anyways, so this quote, it will help set the scene for what we plan on doing today. There’s really only three ways that you can create lasting change, according to BJ. Have an epiphany, change your environment. Someone said, redesign your environment back here, I believe. Change your environment or change your habits in small ways. I don’t know about anyone else in this room, but I’m not a magician. I can’t create epiphanies for myself. Maybe you can, I don’t know. If you can’t, that’s cool. So where can we start? If we want to create change, lasting change transformation in ourselves, where do we start? We’re going to change our habits today in tiny ways.

So as we get into this session, again, I’m going to give pretty detailed instructions, but that doesn’t mean that they’re going to always make sense to you. So I do encourage folks as we go through today’s session, you got a question? Throw your hand up. Dom, that didn’t make sense. Dom, what about this? Dom, whatever, just go ahead and raise your question. Go ahead and interrupt, we have plenty of time to get through this.

So, just to get the blood flowing in true Voltage Control fashion, I want to ask everyone to get up. And we’re going to talk to each other. So I know it may be a challenge, you may have talked to a lot of folks already. I want to ask you to try to find someone new in the room. And I’m going to invite you to first think about this for yourself. What is that one habit that you have in your life today that sparks an absolute sense of joy? And how does that habit that you have serve your identity or some aspect of your identity? Think about that for a moment. What I want everyone to do, is I want you to pair up and I want you to share your reflection with a colleague or someone in the room. Let’s start with someone who you haven’t met yet. So, let’s start there. Share your reflection to those questions.

So we’ve had a chance to talk to two other people about that habit in their life that sparks absolute joy. And we asked them, what about that habit is reinforcing your identity? How does it serve your identity? We’d love to hear from someone and don’t share your, don’t feel free to… You don’t have to share the habits themselves, but what’d you learn from your conversations? What maybe themes did you draw from your conversations with folks? Anyone? Please, yes.

Speaker 10:
It’s such simple things that we’re doing, they’re not big activities, but it was tiny things that have spark joy.

Dom Michalec:
Yeah, cool. Awesome. Yeah, Stacy, is it? Okay, cool. I can see the tag.

Stacy:
Most people I talked to did something specifically in the morning, first thing.

Dom Michalec:
Yeah.

Stacy:
Do mornings, or-

Dom Michalec:
Sorry. We’re going fast here, we’re going fast here. Yeah, usually, I mean, we’ll get in this in a moment, but identifying the aspects of your routine. Usually morning routines are great and are great anchor moments for creating habits. Your name?

Frank:
Frank.

Dom Michalec:
Frank. Sorry, I couldn’t see your name tag. Go ahead.

Frank:
So actually, we had the same habit, is to focus on something creative, both with art. So using art as a way to be creative, and I noticed how that spilled over into my work as well. So, it’s making sure that we take time out to kind of be creative.

Dom Michalec:
Cool.

Frank:
And find a creative pursuit, so.

Dom Michalec:
That’s awesome. We’ll take one more and I will let… Yep, that’s fine by me.

Speaker 9:
Both of us had a common habit around being active and healthy, and I think someone else said it, but just to do the thing and not… And I brought up the fact that you don’t want to rely on motivation because you won’t have it every day. So just do a little bit of it, even if you don’t feel like it.

Dom Michalec:
Cool, excellent. Yeah, so you’ll notice that in these conversations, at least what I noticed, I saw a lot of people light up when they got to talk about their favorite habit, even with a complete stranger. I’ve never met you before, I want to tell you about my favorite habit. I also heard some aspects of reinforcing parts of our identity, our creative side, our physical. Some folks identify they like to be physically fit and active and like to cultivate habits that push that part of our identity forward. What’s important to take away from this exercise is that, I believe you hit on it. I didn’t hear anyone talk about anything that took a lot of motivation to get. You’re already doing things that you wanted to do and you’re just finding those habits that help support you in doing that. And as we get into more of the meat and potatoes of behavior design, I do, if you have a pen, paper, there’s a couple takeaways and I’ll call them out here throughout.

But here’s your first takeaway, the best way to create lasting change, and that’s for yourself, that’s for others, communities and businesses, is to do two things. These are called the maxims of behavior design. Help yourself or others do the things that you already want to do. And the second aspect is, help yourself or others feel successful. And we’ll talk about those two aspects a little bit more detail here. We’ll get a little bit systematic with this, but if you take anything away from this session, when you think about designing habits or starting new habits in your life, ask yourself, am I doing, is this something that’s, do I already want to do this? Is this something I already want to do? Are you helping yourself do the things you already want to do? And how can I make myself feel successful or others feel successful while doing it?

So, three superpowers you’re going to walk away with today, at least I hope you do. I want to do my best to make sure you get there. The first one is, you’re going to be able to explain what causes a behavior to become a habit. I’m going to get the trick answer out of the way. It’s not repetition. You won’t be able to analyze your behavior, any other person’s behavior like a true behavioral scientist. We’ll get into the model of that here in a moment. And the last one, which is my personal favorite and the whole reason why I’m here, is to help you intentionally design any new habit you want into your life. It’s really important to take into consideration the aspect of your identity that you want this habit to serve.

Today, we’re all facilitators. When we all go home, we’re brothers, we’re sisters, wives, husbands, aunts, uncles, and we nurture those aspects of our identity. So, whichever aspect of your identity or where you are, the context matters, I guess is what I’m trying to say. So when you think about the habits you want to design today, think about the context in which those habits are being designed and which aspects of your identity those habits are served. Are those okay superpowers? Are we cool with that? We walk away feeling pretty good about these like yeah, this is a good session? Okay, cool. All right, so those are your three superpowers and here are the models and methods that are going to help you gain those superpowers.
And these models and methods are the models and methods of a system called Behavior Design. The models are there to help you think clearly about your own behavior and the methods are there to help you design for behavior change. First model we’ll talk about is obviously the Fogg Behavior Model. It’s a universal model for understanding human behavior, and this is not all-encompassing, by the way. There’s a bunch of different models we could possibly go through. So I had to kind of pick and choose which ones I wanted to introduce during the session. And we’ll talk about the Spectrum of Automaticity too.

The main method we’ll talk about today, which I believe some folks maybe are already familiar with, is the method of tiny habits and the various steps to create a tiny habit. Going from a big lofty aspiration or a desired outcome, and systematically breaking that down into very tiny small steps that we can take and removing the guesswork along the way. So clarifying the aspiration, we’re going to explore our behavior options, and this is going to be a very personal session, by the way. So there will be aspects of engagement and sharing and all that stuff, but for the most part, this going to be very personal because I think habits are a fairly personal and intimate aspect of our lives. But we’re going to go through behavior matching as well, we’re going to show you how to take a habit that you want and scale it down or start with the starter step to get going. And help you find a good prompt, we’re going to help you celebrate that success.

But first, let’s start with the Fogg Behavior Model. Who here is already familiar with the Fogg Behavior Model? Steph, don’t you? Okay, cool. Got a couple folks. Again, the Fogg Behavior Model, and this is obviously named after the guy who created it, Dr. BJ Fogg, Stanford behavior scientist 20, 30 years, considered preeminent expert in this space. And when you write out the model, it goes something like this. A behavior happens when, and when I talk about a behavior, it’s any behavior. So like a behavior, or a habit is a type of behavior. A one-time behavior is obviously a behavior. Stopping behavior, it’s a type of behavior. A behavior happens when three elements converge at the same moment in time. Motivation to do the behavior, the ability to do the behavior in a prompt, a cue, someone that says, “Hey, do this behavior now.”
So when all three of those elements converge at the same time you will see a behavior performed. And if any three of these elements are missing, if a prompt is missing, if you have low ability or low motivation, you’ll see here in a moment, you will not see the behavior, you will not perform the behavior. And you can actually visualize this model on two dimensions across the vertical axis here we can plot out motivation, and motivation is a range from high to low or anything in between. So we can have high motivation to do a behavior, all the way down to low motivation to do a behavior. And like motivation, ability is also a range from high to low. But instead of saying high to low, we say easy to do for high ability, all the way down to hard to do.

And now I want to use an example here to kind of put this model into action. Let’s say the behavior we’re trying to get someone else to do, is we want them to donate $100 to the local dog shelter, let’s start there. If they have high motivation to donate to the local dog shelter and it’s fairly easy for them to do, we plot them up here in the upper right-hand corner of the Fogg Behavior Model. When prompted to make that donation, they’ll reliably do that behavior every single time. Conversely, if someone has low motivation to donate to the local dog shelter or animal shelter, I don’t know, maybe they don’t like animals for some reason. If you don’t like dogs, that’s a different conversation, but that’s just me. Maybe it’s really hard for them to do, right? Maybe they’re just not able to do it, maybe they don’t have enough money to do it. Maybe they just don’t have the time to do it, it takes too much physical effort to do. We plot them down here. What prompted to make that donation, they will not make that donation.

What I haven’t shown you yet, is there’s actually a really cool relationship between these first two elements, motivation and ability, and that relationship is represented by this cool little green curve line called the action threshold. Essentially, this action threshold is here to signify one thing. If anyone is above this action threshold or action line at the point of being prompted, they’ll reliably do the behavior every single time, that includes yourself. We like to say prompts are effective above the action line. And if anyone is below the action line of the action threshold at the point of being prompted, they will not do the behavior.

Speaker 10:
Is ability, ability, is it subjective or is it objective?

Dom Michalec:
Ability is dependent upon the person. So I’ll give you an example here. If I ask Jeff Bezos who loves dogs to make a donation to the ASPCA, he has high ability to do it. He has the time, he has the money, it’s not that hard for him, but maybe a college student who’s strapped for money and they don’t have a lot, they don’t have the ability to make the donation, they’re in class, it’s too hard. When they’re prompted to do it, they’ll fall below. So it’s all dependent upon the person. Ability is not a universal, everyone has the same ability to do a behavior. Everyone has different elements of ability to do a behavior.
I’m showing this to you now because I want you to think clearly about this model as you go through the next steps, and we’ll do some activities here to create our habits. What you notice here is like I said, there’s a relationship between motivation and ability. It’s called a compensatory relationship. The more you have of one, the less you need of another to get above the action line. So what you see here is if someone’s highly motivated to do a behavior, think about yourself in this example, if you’re super motivated to do a behavior. You can do both easy and hard to do behaviors. And if something is easy to do, you don’t have to rely so much on motivation in order to do that behavior. Hence, why we’re here today.

When we design our habits, we’re going to design our habits in a way where we can get into that upper right-hand corner, kind of stack the deck in our favor to get into that upper right-hand corner. We’re going to align on an aspiration or desired outcome, something that endures from a motivation perspective, because we know our motivation fluctuates from context to context over time, but we’re going to align to an aspiration or a desired outcome that we have, something that has enduring motivation, and we’re going to pick very specific behaviors, make them super easy to do, so we can reliably be above that action line when we prompt ourselves to do those behaviors. So that’s why I wanted to introduce this to you now, and this is a great troubleshooting, this is a great model for analyzing behavior.

So we think about maybe outside the context of this workshop, we’re at work, we want people to show up to a meeting and people are showing up late or not showing up at all. First thing we need to ask ourselves is, what’s making it hard for those people to show up to the meeting on time? Usually, a lot of times we start with motivation. We think, oh, if we just motivate people, they’ll do the things that we want them to do. We just need to motivate them, motivate them, motivate them.
What I hope you take away here is, ability is probably where we should start. How can we make things easier for people to do, for things we want them to do, including ourselves? And for things we don’t want people to do, how can we make them harder? How can we get them below the action line? So thinking about this, this adds a little bit more of an element of first starting with, how do we make something easy? How do we make a behavior easier to do so we can create a habit out of it? And then we’ll talk about motivation later, because motivation fluctuates over time, as we know.

It’s oftentimes that we hear when people create habits that they start at a desired outcome or an aspiration or a goal, and they just kind of guess as to how to achieve that goal. I want to get better sleep, so I’m going to buy this fancy pillow, or I’m going to get these new sheets, or I’m going to get to bed at 9:00 PM every single night without fail, and they just scatter shot a bunch of different behaviors to hit that goal. When you clarify the aspiration, and you’ll see here in a moment when we explore behavior options, what we’re going to do, is we’re going to ask ourselves, if I could do anything, we’re going to generate a big list and we’re going to whittle it down to the ones that are most effective for you, instead of just guessing. It’s important to have a clarified aspiration or an outcome so we know which are going to be most effective for us moving forward, so we’re not just guessing.

I know we just flew through probably the hardest thing to do in behavior design, and I’m not going to just gloss over that fact. But again, we’re just practicing this, but I hope you see now that folks who studied, folks who use behavior design, we like to get very specific about the behaviors that we like to change, whether it’s our own or for others. And you’ll notice that a lot of times, and I think everyone here at one point in time raising a hand like, I’ve been a part of a change transformation. I’ve been a part of a transformation effort in the past. In the context of work, when you go back to work, maybe you’re already still in that transformation effort. When you go back to work and you hear people talk about what we need to get done in order to transform our business.

In my experience, I’m going to project a little bit, rarely will you ever hear them speak specifically about very specific behaviors that people need to do. They’ll speak in generalities. We need to create value chains, we need to align business incentives. The hell does that mean? What are people actually doing? So this is an opportunity for you to look at your behavior in other people’s behavior in a different lens and start maybe to coach them a little bit like, well, what do you mean by aligning incentives or creating value streams? What are people doing to… If you were to watch someone create a value stream, what are they doing in order to do that? You start to think about behavior, your own and theirs, in a little bit different way.

So what have we done up to this point? And continue working, I’m just going to keep talking here. So, what have we done up to this point? We’ve clarified an aspiration or a desired outcome that we want, whether it’s a professional, personal, whatever it may be, something that matters to us. We’ve explored various avenues to achieve that aspiration or desired outcome. Again, we did a generative exercise to just explore what we could possibly do to achieve something that matters to us. And now, we’ve done focus, this is called focus mapping, by the way. We’ve brought focus to the high-impact things that we want to do that allow us or help us achieve that aspiration or desired outcome.

Now we get to the meat and potatoes of the tiny and tiny habits. We’re going to start tiny. If you were to distill down this whole idea of creating these tiny habits, it really boils down to this. Take something you want to do, distill it down into its smallest form. Find where in your environment, in your life, that habit fits best, and nurture its growth. That’s no different than how you create habits naturally, now we’re just designing very specifically and systematically in a way that habits naturally form anyways. So, what are we going to do now? We’re going to take those golden behaviors and we’re going to make them, create the tiniest form possible, that’s still providing meaning to us at the same time.

In a moment here we’ll talk about, I’ll talk it about now, with the tiny habits recipe. Remember, can someone remind me what the three elements are? A behavior happens when three things come together. What are those three things?

Audience:
[inaudible 00:23:34].

Dom Michalec:
Okay, I heard it. We have this recipe set up this way because after I do a behavior, I will do my now new behavior and immediately celebrate by, we’ll get that here in a moment. The after I, we will focus here first. The after I is the anchor moment. You’re going to use your existing routine as your prompt. So it’s not going to be an external prompt, it’s not going to be your phone dinging, it’s not going to be you putting up a sticky note. You’re going to use your existing routine as a reminder to do your new habit. Things that you are

ady do consistently in your life, you’re going to use those as your reminder, and those are called anchor moments.
I will, that’s your scaled back gold behavior. That’s the new habit that you want in your life. So let’s find a good prompt for you. I already hear some folks talking about their morning routines, you’re already kind of ahead of the game here. That’s cool, that’s cool. We’re going to identify some good prompts for you. One more new term here I want to introduce is, identifying the trailing edge of that anchor moment. Identify instead of the first thing you do in a sequence in a starter step, you identify the last sequence of something you do in your daily, weekly, monthly routines, whatever it may be. And I’ll give you an example here.

I chose the prompt of brewing a cup of coffee in the morning to wipe down one countertop in the kitchen. This is important, because it matches the physical location of where I’m want to do my new behavior, matches the frequency, and in some aspects, it’s kind of thematic for me. So this is a good match for me because I was already in the kitchen brewing a cup of coffee, let me wipe down the countertop. But that wasn’t the trailing edge prompt, that prompt didn’t have its trailing edge identified.

So, what’s a trailing edge of brewing a cup of coffee, at least in my life? Press brew on the Nespresso machine. Anyone have a Nespresso machine or a Keurig or anything like that? Okay, y’all know you have to do something, you have to get the pod, you got to put the pod in, you got to check for water, make sure that there’s a cup. Hit the button. There’s actually four or five things that you do just to get a cup of coffee. So what’s the last thing that I do? I hit brew. Hitting that button is my prompt to wipe down the countertop in the kitchen. This is the power of using your existing routine, not reminders on your phone, not the dent, not sticky notes on your computer, using your existing routine to help you identify and do a new habit.
I want to talk about one more model. And again, the models are here to help you think clearly about behavior. The methods on the right are here to help you design for behavior change. So, I did have this cool little thing pulled up on Menti, but we’re going to skip it. I just want everyone to shout out some answers. What do you think causes a behavior to become a habit? I gave you a hint earlier, it’s not repetition. One more time.

Speaker 3:
Positive reinforcement.

Dom Michalec:
Positive reinforcement. Cool. Anyone else?

Speaker 3:
Desire.

Dom Michalec:
Desire? Is that what you said? Desire? Okay, great.

Speaker 3:
Knowing your why.

Dom Michalec:
Knowing your why, okay, cool. Okay, we have the scientists in the group. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 10:
It has a low cognitive load. I don’t have to think about it, it’s easy to do.

Dom Michalec:
Okay, we’ll definitely talk about automaticity for sure. One more. These are all great by the way. Do you have any other guesses as to what causes a behavior to become a habit?

Speaker 3:
[inaudible 00:27:08].

Dom Michalec:
I didn’t want anyone to say… Because I’m about to say “No, that’s wrong,” and I didn’t want to embarrass anyone. So I was like, “No, it’s not repetition.” Go ahead.

Speaker 3:
Reward.

Dom Michalec:
Reward? Okay, let’s talk about that for a moment, before we talk about… So Dr. Fogg likes to talk about these ideas of rewards. You hear about it in pop culture, you hear about it, where if you reward behavior you’re reinforcing the behavior. What’s important to take into consideration is that the word reward is kind of circling the right answer, but it depends on when that reward is given for the behavior. If it’s an incentive, frown to the future, that’s not going to create a positive emotion, which increases your automaticity. But if it happens immediately after you do a behavior, that’s getting closer to the answer. So we’ll talk about how celebration, creating positive emotions helps create that aspect. But be very careful when we use the word reward, the timing of the reward matters a lot.

So, let’s get into it. When we think about behaviors, let’s first talk about habits. When we talk about habits, usually we talk about them in terms of, these are things that we can do just automatically. It doesn’t take a lot of thought, it doesn’t take a lot of effort, it’s just boom, we do it. We jump in the car in the morning, we drive to work, sometimes we don’t even think about how we get there, and boom, we show up to work. Whatever it may be. So these are, habits are behaviors that are fairly automatic.

So you can think about behaviors living on a spectrum of automaticity. How automatic is this behavior? How automatic is that behavior? And you can think about this on a range from left to right, things with no automaticity, behaviors are choices or decisions that we have to make. Where am I going to go on vacation? What am I going to eat for dinner tonight? Which plane ticket am I going to buy to get to Austin, Texas for this summit? Which airline am I going to use? It takes deliberation and some choice in decision-making. Whereas behaviors with high automaticity are very automatic, you can almost think of them as reflexes. And on this range, you can think of anything towards the right-hand side as a very strong habit. You have very strong habits with high automaticity. Weaker habits with still some automaticity but not quite as much as your stronger habits, and then everything else to the left is not a habit.

So the question that I’ve been asking is, what causes a behavior to become more automatic? What causes a behavior to move closer to the right-hand side of this model? And I heard some great answers. I heard pretty much, I think some folks even got it correct. It’s not repetition. Emotions make behaviors more automatic, it’s the emotion that creates a habit. It’s not the repetition. I’ll ask a quick question before we move on here. How many folks have used Uber to get around town? Okay. How many times did you have to use Uber to know that it was superior to calling a cab? It felt amazing, right? It felt like you were just, it was magic. I just put in an address, a car came by, picked me up, whisked me up, nice person drove me to my destination. It felt amazing. Feeling that emotion, that positive emotion probably made you want to use Uber again the next time and the next time and the next time. So, it’s the emotion that created the habit.

The repetition makes a behavior easier to do. It gives you more skill to do that behavior. Lifting a five pound weight every day for five minutes, you’re going to get pretty skilled at that over time. It’s not the repetition that’s creating a habit. You’re creating a skill. It’s making it… that five pound weight’s going to get easier and easier to lift in every subsequent time. So you’re increasing your ability through repetition, but it’s actually the emotion that creates the conditions for a habit to form. And someone had mentioned dopamine, the brain reward circuitry. We won’t get into the science of it, but essentially, yeah.
So, why am I talking about this? In order to wire in these habits effectively, we need to find, we need to somehow create a positive emotion. And we think about creating a positive emotion as a skill that we can bring into our tiny habit, is celebrating our success. After I hit the Nespresso button, I will wipe down one countertop and give myself a fist bump, create a positive emotion immediately after doing that behavior, so it wires in the habit and I feel good, I feel successful, and I want to come back and do it again. So after I brew my Nespresso machine or I have to hit brew on my Nespresso machine, I will wipe down one countertop in the kitchen and immediately celebrate by, yeah, give myself a fist bump and smile in the… Oh, I forgot that part, yeah, I look in the microwave mirror. I’m a huge weirdo. I do smile in the microwave every once in a while. I forgot I put that in there. Wow. Didn’t think.

Speaker 2:
[inaudible 00:32:21].

Dom Michalec:
There you go. Things that are revealed in front of 100 people that you didn’t think would be revealed. All right, cool. A big part of wiring in a new tiny habit is rehearsing that habit. So for instance, when I showed you a habit of wiping down the countertop, I did it 10 times in a row. I walked out of the kitchen, I walked in. I didn’t actually brew a cup of coffee every single time, I brewed the water, just hit the button. I walked in, hit the button, wiped down a countertop, fist bump, walked out of the kitchen. Turned back around, did it again. It looked really silly but it helped and it wired it in. And the very next day, it was very automatic. I didn’t even have to think about it. I was like, oh, of course I hit the brew button, I wipe down the counter.

So take these cards with you, put in your back pocket, your bags, whatever it may be. And whatever environment that your new tiny habits you want to do these in, make sure that you rehearse them after you leave today. And make sure you’re rehearsing the celebration aspect of those tiny habits, that’s the important part, a lot of people skip that. It’s like, I’ll just do the tiny habit, I’ll do the celebration later. No, celebrate every single time. Again, it’s that positive emotion. It’s the emotion that creates the habit. It’s what moves it into automaticity. Celebrate every single time.

This is going to maybe sound a little, I don’t know, I don’t want to say overstated, but I do want everyone to take a moment to recognize how far you come in just an hour and a half. Not to compare, but think about how many people are outside of this room right now who want to make a change in their lives and they don’t know where to start. Y’all have taken an amazing first step today, and the idea here is, as you walk out of this room today, share what you learn. Teach people the Fogg Behavior Model. Learn about the Fog Behavior Model, teach it to people. Use your skills of change to help other people change their lives as well. Don’t just hold all the magic for yourself. Apply these skills, get better at them. Create habits. Put those habits, troubleshoot those habits. If you miss a habit, ask yourself and go, what can I do to make this easier? Do I need to switch up the prompt?

There’s another method in tiny habits called iterate, troubleshoot, and expand. We didn’t cover that today because obviously there’s nothing to troubleshoot, we haven’t put them into practice yet. But do take note that if you don’t do a habit, take it as a moment of curiosity. Why did I forget to do that, or why am I not doing this? Explore that. But take a moment to recognize how far you’ve come today in just an hour and a half, officially, hour and a half in about five seconds. But also don’t hold it all for yourself. If you learned something that you really enjoyed, share it with others. Get them curious as well. Maybe you can have a big impact on their life as well, in very tiny ways.

For those who don’t want to share vocally what they thought or what they learned, feel free to scan this QR code, give me some feedback. But I’m looking for feedback. How’d it go? What’d you learn? What’s one thing that resonated with you in today’s session? Outside of, my hand is hurting because you just made me write a mile a minute for an hour and a half.

Speaker 12:
Dom, thank you. I do think we did come pretty far, at least I feel like I did.

Dom Michalec:
Good.

Speaker 12:
The emotion nugget was definitely something that was sort of a new nuance to me.

Dom Michalec:
Cool.

Speaker 12:
And I like the idea of cheesy celebrations. So, you the man.

Dom Michalec:
Good.

Speaker 12:
I’m the woman.

Dom Michalec:
Let’s go.

Speaker 12:
You are awesome.

Dom Michalec:
Let’s go. All right, we’ll take time for one more because I know we’re out of time. I know Eric and Douglas have some pretty important things to wrap up. So we’ll take one more insight, one more aha moment.

Speaker 13:
I really like the idea of going deeper, because we could have stopped at this first step and been like, okay, we feel good about that and then tried to figure out how we can activate against it. But it was like, no, take it kind of a step further. What does that mean? Kind of just dig deeper, dig deeper, and then put it on a grid so that you could really, really understand which ones are the easiest ones, but still going to help you the most. So, just the overall framework was very good.

Dom Michalec:
Cool.

Speaker 13:
And then specifically just not stopping at the first thing that you come up with. It’s like, dig a little bit deeper, like doing the double click.

Dom Michalec:
There’s so many paths to achieving the things you want to achieve in life, and you learn the skills of how to navigate that. It’s cool.
Thank you all so much. Appreciate that.

Speaker 13:
Thank you.

The post Facilitating Transformation appeared first on Voltage Control.

“Connection moves at the speed of vulnerability. It takes courage to be the first on the dance floor or to reach out to someone, but those brave steps can lead to powerful connections”- Bahaa Chmait

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson converses with Bahaa Chmait, a facilitator and 2024 TEDx speaker focused on combating loneliness through shared experiences. Bahaa discusses how his Lebanese heritage and family gatherings around food shaped his approach to fostering connections. They explore the importance of vulnerability, intentional design, and playfulness in adult interactions. Bahaa shares strategies like assigning roles in social settings and creating zones for different engagement levels to alleviate loneliness. He emphasizes the need for proactive connection and the transformative power of shared joyful experiences.

Show Highlights

Links | Resources

Bahaa’s Ted Talk

Bahaa on LinkedIn

Bahaa on the web

JoyMob on Instagram

JoyMob Events

About the Guest

Bahaa is an experience designer on a mission to end loneliness one shared experience at a time. He believes the world could use more human connection, so that people can live more joyful lives.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

Subscribe to Podcast

Engage Control The Room

Voltage Control on the Web
Contact Voltage Control

Transcript

Douglas Ferguson:

Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab Podcast, where I speak with Voltage Control certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method-agnostic approach so you can enjoy a wide range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances of enabling meaningful group experiences.

This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening. If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our Facilitation Lab community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in real time with peers. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab.

And if you’d like to learn more about our 12-week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com today. I’m with Bahaa Chmait at JoyMob Events and BahaaChmait.com, where he is on a mission to end loneliness, one shared experience at a time. He’s also a 2024 TEDx speaker, workshop facilitator, and vibe maker. Welcome to the show, Bahaa.

Bahaa Chmait:

Hey, thank you for having me, Douglas. Always good to see you.

Douglas Ferguson:

You as well. You as well. And we’ll get back to vibe maker. But before we do, let’s hear a little bit about you getting your start. I believe you brought it back to the Lebanese family gatherings. Can you paint us a picture of one moment that really stuck out to you as you reflect on some of those origins?

Bahaa Chmait:

There’s the dinners, food, gathering, breaking bread together. I think that’s the biggest thing. Every time I think about the origins of my facilitation career and where I’m at today and gathering people and creating a vibe, it all started around food. Lebanese people just love to gather.

And of course, every family has their traditional dish that they bring when everyone gathers. And so everyone pulls you aside. They usually grab your wrist, and they don’t let you go, and they say, “But you like mine the best, right.” And it always just brings me joy to think of those moments.

Douglas Ferguson:

It’s funny, I just saw the premiere of a new McConaughey film called The Rivals of the Amziah King, and interesting film. He was a mandolin player, beekeeper, quite an interesting fella. But when the producer came out, he dedicated the film to anybody who’s ever been to a potluck.

And there’s an amazing scene where they’re at the potluck and McConaughey is telling this young lady about all the dishes and the heritage of, “You might not want to eat this one. And this is like… This one always comes from Billy.” And he’s telling her all about Billy.

And so there’s this connection to the food and the people who made it and their personalities. And so you’re bringing me back to that moment, of I can certainly remember some potlucks growing up.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah, yeah. There’s something about breaking bread and just sharing time and space together, so it’s old as time, right. There’s some potlucks that I’ll host, and instead of having a curated meal, we’re just like, “Bring a dish, bring some utensils, bring a dish, and let’s share. Let’s break bread together.” There’s something beautiful about that.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. And especially in community, I mean, you were talking about relatives pulling you aside and saying, “Hey, you like mine the best, right.” There’s this kind of identity around what they brought, and maybe Aunt Edna always brings the country ham biscuits, or I’m sure the Lebanese dishes are a little different. But it’s kind of that idea of this connection to I’m bringing this sustenance. It’s also something I really enjoy making that I can provide and be excited about and proud of.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah, absolutely. And the heritage of that recipe gets passed down through the generation. I think it kind of gets lost now, but some of the old world ways of doing things, and then they put their twist on it, maybe a little bit too, and they’re like, “But you like my version better,” even though it’s the same dish. And as a kid, you feel this social pressure to be like, “Yes, yours is the best.” But at the same time, you’re just like, “I’m here to enjoy some really delicious food with some wonderful people.”

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. And it brings me back to your quest to address loneliness. When I think of community where folks are gathering a lot specifically around food and heritage, you would imagine maybe loneliness wouldn’t be such a problem there, but it could also shine a big light on it.

If you juxtapose those moments that maybe aren’t happening all day every day, those are special moments, maybe once a week, or I don’t know how frequent, but it could even put a highlight on loneliness that’s there.

Or if you’re seeing it in others, it might make it more obvious because maybe they don’t have those experiences because they don’t have those opportunities to gather. I’m kind of curious, does any of that resonate with you, or did that lead to any of your discoveries and wanting to help others that were experiencing loneliness?

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah, great question. Absolutely. I think that loneliness can… you can be surrounded by a sea of people and still be lonely. You know what I mean?

Douglas Ferguson:

Mm-hmm.

Bahaa Chmait:

And when I was growing up, I grew up in a small rural town in Canada, and no doubt about it, hey, it was a small place, 500 people. And I’ve had this first-generation Lebanese Canadian family comes to this rural town, and everything was different. My lunches were different. I would [inaudible 00:05:40] Kafta. Have you had Lebanese food before? [inaudible 00:05:43].

Douglas Ferguson:

I love it.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah.

Douglas Ferguson:

Mm-hmm.

Bahaa Chmait:

It’s delicious, right. But when you’re a kid, you just want to fit in. And so they had peanut butter and jam sandwiches. They had lunchables.

Douglas Ferguson:

The juice boxes.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah, the good stuff, right. I mean a charcuterie board for kids. Those Lunchables were, I mean, come on now. That was delicious. But of course, I wanted to fit in. And so I was kind of the exotic kid. Had a unibrow, even my name was Bahaa. And so, as an adult, everyone’s like, “Bahaa, that’s amazing. Lebanese food, that’s awesome.” But when you’re a kid, everyone’s like, “Bahaaaaa.”

So that disconnection was challenging, and my parents wanted to ascribe… me to ascribe to old world beliefs, traditions, values, and I’m trying to fit in. And so, where do you belong? Where’s your community? Who’s your tribe? And so that lack of belonging led to that loneliness that we’re talking about right now. And it can be isolating trying to figure out where you belong.

I sometimes talk to kids who are not just first generation kids, but kids who have parents from different races or heritages. And so both tribes don’t fully accept them, they say, and they’re kind of stuck in this no man’s land, and that’s a pretty isolating place to be. I’m sure some of your listeners have probably connected with that before.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, for sure. And I’m curious, when you’re working with this kind of eradicating loneliness, how are you confronting that? Is it through these conversations you’re having with folks, or yes, and? Are there other things that you’re doing? How does that show up for you?

Bahaa Chmait:

I think the main thing is designing experiences. As an experience designer, I can tap into that isolating feeling. We’ve all been to a mingling thing or a networking thing, and we just kind of didn’t form a circle at some point in that mingling thing. It’s hard to break into that circle and connect, and so you’re kind of just left off to the side. And so my goal when I’m facilitating with groups in public gatherings or team gatherings is, how do we create connection before content?

So before we just jump into the event, people came for the event because they want to see the event, but they come back because they connected with people. They met people that they connected with. So facilitating an icebreaker, an ice melter, whatever you want to call it, allows people the opportunity to come out of their shells a little bit, especially if you give them a safe and vulnerable environment to do it in. And then they get to choose their own adventure. I think that’s the biggest thing is not forcing anything. Forced fun is never fun. You know what I mean?

Douglas Ferguson:

Mm-hmm.

Bahaa Chmait:

Trust falls are kind of lame, and team building can sometimes feel like going to the dentist. Necessary, but you don’t exactly want to do it. So, how can we make it more engaging and fun and playful for people and just meet them where they’re at?

Douglas Ferguson:

What’s something recent that you’ve done that you can kind of point to that might draw a more realistic picture for folks?

Bahaa Chmait:

I do a lot of movement-based practice as well, and sometimes they’re flash mobs, sometimes they’re public sing-alongs on trains. With the flash mobs, I worked with a global hotel chain, an executive leadership team of global hotel chain, dancing in front of your colleagues can be vulnerable. They wanted to produce a flash mob for their 40th anniversary of the hotel. So we first gave them a tutorial video that they could practice in the comfort of their own home.

And I tell this story in my TED Talk. But one thing that I left out in the talk was that one of the leaders came up to me afterwards and said, “Hey, I was practicing at home in my time in one of my spare rooms, and my daughter walked by and saw me practicing the dance moves at the tutorial video, and she started joining me” and they started having this bonding experience where there were dancing together and connecting.

And it was this beautiful story of how, by intentionally creating something like a tutorial video so that they don’t feel vulnerable and unsafe in front of everyone, they could kind of build that courage first at home, they got a chance to bond, and it had ripple effects beyond the workplace, beyond this thing that they were initially doing to connect with family.

And there was this beautiful sort of intergenerational father-daughter moment that may have not happened otherwise if it wasn’t for intentional design. And I think it was really beautiful. It’s a really beautiful story to share. Those little moments I hear in every experience that we design. There’s always a little nugget or takeaway from something that I’ve designed, and I think that’s really rewarding for me and really just spreads joy in the world.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s super fun and cool. And I guess, what other ways are you seeing joy kind of appear these days? Because I think that it’s really easy to get caught up in the rhetoric of the times and the divisiveness and stuff. And so, how are you seeing these opportunities for joy?

Bahaa Chmait:

I think being intentional. Priya Parker says it best. “Purpose is your bouncer.” Just being purposeful with your day, with your interactions with people. I’d say that connection moves at the speed of vulnerability. And when… Have you ever been to anywhere where there’s a dance floor, so a wedding, a bar, anything like that, and you saw that no one was dancing? Have you ever had that happen? Yeah. And why is no one dancing? Because no one’s dancing, right. No one wants to be the first one on that dance floor. It’s scary.

It takes a lot of courage and bravery because what if no one joins you? If everyone joins you, it’s a party. And so no one goes on the dance for, so no one goes on the dance floor. And it’s the same thing with human connection. Whether you’re trying to bridge a connection and reach out to somebody that you know, or don’t know or you’re trying to even apologize. If nobody goes first, then nothing happens. And you can only control what you do, not what other people do or how they react.

And so finding that courage and that bravery to get out on that dance floor or reach out to that friend and say hi, or reach out to that colleague, that work teammate and say, “Hey, there’s some friction between us. Can we talk about how to resolve this?” It can be incredibly scary and incredibly hard, but so powerful because connection, it moves at the speed of vulnerability. And so, yeah, I just invite everybody to take that step and be brave and see what happens. The worst that can happen is you’re at where you’re at.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, true, true. And what are some of your go-to mechanisms to get the first person out on the dance floor? I mean, are you modeling that? Is that something you’re doing, getting out there first?

Is it about inviting more people in so that they’re more encouraged and feel invited, versus just getting brought to the event versus getting invited on the dance floor? I mean, I don’t know. I’m just going to throw in some things out, but I’m curious, what have you found to be the mechanisms to really get people to engage?

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah, I would say that always looking at things in terms of team, in terms of collaboration, in terms of group, when you’re thinking in terms of group. So if I’m facilitating something where I want somebody to be vulnerable, whether it’s a debrief in the team in group sharing or it’s getting out on the dance floor after a talk that I’ve given, which we did. We threw a dance party for 500 people after the TEDx talk that I gave because it was all about dance and movement, primed everybody to just be playful and give themselves permission.

What I like to do is I like to connect with a few people and say, “Hey, if I call for somebody to just raise their hand and say something, will you be the first one?” And I think just inviting people, giving them a role at the gathering, gives them a sense of purpose. “Can you be the host of the person that kind of greets people when they look like they’re standing off alone? Or can you be the person who greets people when they first come in so that their entry is this warm and welcoming thing?” Everybody wants to be part of something, and I think if we co-create it, we’re able to achieve really cool things.

But if it’s just all about you and you’re the only one doing something, it can be really hard to start a movement and get people going. So I think it’s about offering an invitation, setting it up ahead of time for success, and modeling what vulnerability looks like for sure. There’s definitely been times where I’ve invited people to come dance in the streets in public sort of pop-up, flash mob style dances, and I created a video to say, “Hey, this is where we’re going to be dancing, and here’s me dancing right now as people walk by to show, ‘Listen, I know this is weird and kind of awkward and vulnerable, but I’m doing it right now and I want you to come join me as well.'” It can be magic.

Douglas Ferguson:

When you mention roles, it’s making me think about how important it can be to have a focus as an attendee. Or oftentimes when someone shows up and is looking around the room and wondering, “Oh my gosh, what can I do here? Where am I supposed to go? Do I go to the bar first, or do I go over here first?” And so having a role or a responsibility can be a really great way to curb some anxiety and know where to fit.

In fact, I think it’s a powerful thing to do, even if you’re going to a house party and it’s some folks you just met, maybe ask the host how you can be helpful. “Can I go stir this pot, or can I take out the recycling? It looks a little full or something.” But just having some role or thing to do can be really helpful to calm the mind and the nerves. So I thought that was interesting, you brought that up. Does that show up a lot in how you think about shaping these experiences?

Bahaa Chmait:

Absolutely. I think to resonate with that, I think as kind people, we reach out to the host and I say, “What can I bring?” Ice, bottle of wine, whatever it is. But then, once we get to the party, we forget that we can still support the gathering and support the intention of the gathering. And so it’s nice. I think about this often when I’m designing experiences.

I used to be the type of experienced designer who designed in the background and not be in the forefront, so I wouldn’t give a public speech or anything. I would just design it and then let the audience kind of take over. And I think about that with people who love to do photography and videography. They love to be behind the lens. They don’t want to be the subject of the experience. They want to be behind curating, but how can we encourage everybody to have a role?

“Yeah, when you get to the party, hey, can you make sure that the cups… everybody has a drink or everybody’s having fun,” and each part of the household has a different vibe. The kitchen has that big party vibe where all the things happen, whereas the couch, the living room, may be more chill, the backyard. So there could be zones. I don’t know. What do you think? There could be zones for creating some rules for people as well?

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting. We always talk about pop-up rules and temporary spaces that we might be designing for or supporting. And I like this idea of zones. You could have different rules or different expectations, different criteria, different games in the different zones, for sure.

I mean, it kind of naturally happens when you’re talking about a house party because just because of the nature of the space. And also, I think kitchens just have that quality to them. When people are in a party, they’re magnetic.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah, yeah. They’re standing. They’re energized. Usually the shots are there.

Douglas Ferguson:

Right. There’s that.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah, there’s all the factors that come into play. Yeah, interesting. Maybe at a public event where you’re at a conference or a networking thing, they create zones and each zone has its own vibe, the breakout sessions, the seminars, the main room, the dah, dah, dah. And so, yeah, creating experiences specifically for those zones, I think we’re onto something here.

Douglas Ferguson:

Space and how you allocate space and break folks up, how you decorate it, how you set up furniture, all those things can be subtle cues into how we want people to engage with the space or what the rules are.

Bahaa Chmait:

I think one thing that we tend to miss as adults is playfulness. We always think we have to show up in this sort of polished way, and it doesn’t have to be completely refined and polished. It can be playful. It could be a banter, an exchange.

I think that, as adults, we start to lose our sense of play. NASA conducted a study, and they concluded that 98% of children are born creative geniuses, 98%. And then, they did a study later on in life. They said, as adults, only 2% still qualify, and I think that’s because we unlearn play. You know what I mean?

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. I think it gets taught out of us in a way, this idea that school is about having the correct answer, but we get kind of built and programmed to do well on the test and to fall in line and be a good student, and all these things.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah.

Douglas Ferguson:

There’s a really great book called Orbiting the Giant Hairball that talks about this, and there’s a really amazing section where the author is… I guess one of the things he would do in his spare time, he was a creative director at Hallmark, and so you can imagine the whimsy and creativeness that had to flow through him.

And one of the things he would do is visit children at elementary schools and bring metal sculptures and try to wow them and talk to them about art, and to follow their passion for art. He had this interesting little experiment he would run where he would ask the students which of them were artists.

And he’s like, the kindergartens all raise their hands, but then you get up to the fourth, fifth graders, and no one’s raising their hand, and he’s like… and he would ask the students, “What’s happening here? Are all the artists moving away.”

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah. It’s amazing how we unlearn that, for sure. Kids, you can give them a simple drawing and they’ll come up with 10 different things that it is. And as adults, we look at it and we’re like, “Um, that’s this one thing and only this one thing.” But yeah, I want to encourage and invite everybody to create playlists, and I’m not talking about music playlists, but a play list, a list of things that bring you joy. Dr. Stuart Brown of the National Play Institute says that the opposite of play is not work. It’s depression.

And I think that we have the opportunity to become more playful and give ourselves the opportunity to take play breaks even at work. Some things that are on my playlist are dancing, midday dance parties. I work remote, and so just turning off the camera doing the… and then just turn on some music and just moving the body a little bit. It can be so rejuvenating. Going for a skip down the street, coloring, it’s something that your mind just gets focused into something that’s so simple. Telling dad jokes is the one I sent you this morning, I hope it made you laugh.

Douglas Ferguson:

Oh, yeah.

Bahaa Chmait:

Or at least you roll your eyes.

Douglas Ferguson:

I’m a big fan of dad jokes. Yeah. No, I’m a big fan of dad jokes, so I’m definitely one to carry those around and share them to… much to my wife’s chagrin.

Bahaa Chmait:

I feel like there’s two spectrums, right. There’s the rolling on the floor laughing, and then there’s the eye roll and everything in between, and everyone knows where they kind of fall, especially when it comes to dad jokes. But no matter what, as long as I can get a response out of somebody, I think that’s a win.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, that’s a useful tool.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So I think there’s four rules around a playlist that I want to talk about. The first rule of playlists and play is make sure that you lose track of time. If you’re losing track of time, then you’re playing, you’re doing it right. If you lose track of time, you’re totally immersed in the experience. That’s great play. The second is don’t have a goal or an outcome. Just enjoy the experience.

When I’m coloring, it’s not about finishing the project, it’s about just coloring and just doing whatever comes to me or calls to me. Being… The emotional side, being light or silly or energized, having the emotion attached to it. And then the fourth thing is allowing yourself to be curious and self-expressive. I think those are four great elements of play that I want to invite everybody to engage in more.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it’s interesting. The lack of outcome, I think, is one that many people might struggle with letting go of.

Bahaa Chmait:

That need for results or perfection or…

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, perfection’s certainly a thing. I was thinking more in the lines of, “There has to be a reason why I’m going to do this thing.” It seems like a very societal way of behaving or way of being, right. That we have these objectives. This thing we have to accomplish, so I can imagine that being difficult, at least in my observations of how folks think about meetings, how they think about the way they spend their time.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. When you ask someone that you don’t know if they want to play rock, paper, scissors, I tend to get a few different answers. I get a yes, an enthusiastic yes, I get a no, which is totally fine, and then sometimes I get a, “But for what?” And they want to know, “What’s the outcome? What’s the purpose? Why? Why are we doing this thing? Can it just be playful, or does it have to be something that is more?”

Douglas Ferguson:

Mm-hmm.

Bahaa Chmait:

So it’s interesting tapping into what you’re saying.

Douglas Ferguson:

What’s your percentages on those three answers?

Bahaa Chmait:

I would say that for what is a big one. “Why? For what? What are we doing?” They want to understand the parameters around it, but it also depends on context because I’ll ask people-

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. Where you’re at and who you’re running into.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah. Yeah. Are they a complete stranger? Are you at a mingling event or a networking event? Are you at something playful? There’s an experience. We partnered with the local transit authority and the city, and we created these JoyMob’s, so a mob of people spreading joy, and we brought entertainment onto the train cars and the train doors open, and a big loud of laughter just erupts from the train car.

And when people first hop on, they’re like, “What’s happening here?” And they’re like, “I don’t understand. It’s usually this solo, disconnected kind of ride. I’ve just planned to be on my phone, look out the window, put my headphones in.” And we were doing this improv comedy thing, and the audience, even for a two-minute ride, short little skits, we were getting audience suggestions, and they were participating and laughing and making eye contact with each other.

And it was this beautiful experience of connecting versus what pre-programmed your mind to think that the ride is going to be, and then being delightfully surprised, and the facial expressions that people, when they hop on the train, they’re like, “What is happening here?”

Douglas Ferguson:

Was that the first JoyMob that you ever did?

Bahaa Chmait:

The first JoyMob we ever did was dancing in the streets, and it was a silent disco, and it was a traveling silent disco. So, for those that don’t know silent disco, you put music in your headphones, no one can hear the music, except… unless you have the headphones. So, going down the street, we were flash mobbing farmer’s markets. They’re buying food and groceries, and we’re like, “Woo-hoo.” And that’s all you hear. And everybody’s like, “People are crazy.” But [inaudible 00:25:37]-

Douglas Ferguson:

And they’re so… You were just walking down the street just from neighborhood to neighborhood.

Bahaa Chmait:

Joyfully moving our bodies to music, and we were inspired by the music. We gave them prompts in the headphones too. Give a high five to a stranger, dance as if you were Fred Astaire, jump up onto a park bench, or twirl around a light pole.

Douglas Ferguson:

That’s fascinating that you had the prompts in there. Most silent discos I’ve been aware of, people are listening to music, and oftentimes they’re hearing different music. So you’ve got maybe five to 10 different tracks. And so people are dancing to different things, and it’s quite unreal to look at because no one’s dancing in the same thing.

Bahaa Chmait:

Everybody’s moving to their own groove, right. Yeah.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. And so that’s fascinating that you introduced the prompts, then that gave people maybe a little more confidence to go further than they normally would.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah. Again, inviting people into the experience. I’m thinking about the five E’s of experience design. You create excitement in the beginning and really set the tone for what’s going to happen. Then, in the entry, when people were coming, we were welcoming them with a warm welcome. We did a team-building activity, and then we move into the experience. And how do we design the experience so that it’s engaging and it’s not just stale? This was pre-COVID that we did this first one years and years before.

And we found that some people came up to the people with headphones and they said, “What are you doing?” And we said, “We’re dancing.” And they’re like, “Well, can I join in?” And so they took out their headphones and either shared their headphones, again pre-COVID, or they put their phone on speakerphone and just listened with this… the phone next to both of their ears. And they shared a moment of dancing together in this sort of wildly vulnerable state out in the wild, on a street corner, in a park. It was beautiful.

Douglas Ferguson:

So what was going through your mind right before it first started? This is your first one. The anticipating is building. What were you thinking?

Bahaa Chmait:

Fear that no one was going to show up. It was a wildly unique ask of the community. I had a goal, I wanted to see if I could unite the city through dance. I put up some posters, word got out, the media caught wind. They had me on the Live Morning Show. I told them what we were doing, and I said, “I’m going to be dancing here, come join me.” And I thought to myself, I didn’t even have a business or a Facebook or anything set up.

So I was like, “Well, what if no one comes? Will I still honor the thing that I said I was going to do? Will I still be the strange guy dancing in the streets?” And slowly, one by one, eventually 60-something people showed up and this beautiful celebration. And at the end, everybody’s hugging, getting to know each other. They’re asking me what’s next. And that’s when I realized like, “Oh, there’s an opportunity here for more human connection in unique ways than we typically see.”

Douglas Ferguson:

Of those people. How many are you still in touch with? Was this the foundation of building real, lasting relationships?

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I was more connected to the dance community at that time, and it was a lot of wonderful dancers. We met at Ecstatic Dance and would have a beautiful time together. I think that in the law of diffusion of innovation, it’s a bell curve. In the beginning to start a movement, you need the innovators and the early adopters.

So basically, what that means is you need someone that’s willing to go first, and then you need the people who will back that up and be like, “Okay, I’m in. Sign me up. I don’t want to be the first one. But since there’s a movement, since you’re dancing in the streets, since you’re singing on train, since you’re dah, dah, dah, dah, writing love letters and leaving them in public for people to find and brighten up their day, I want to join in.”

And so we had that group right off the bat. It just started building and building and building, and then we reached a tipping point to start reaching some more of the majority, the early and late majority of the people in the bell curve. Does that make sense?

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, absolutely. And then I know that through these JoyMob Events, you started to transition into working with companies. So I was curious, how do you translate the spontaneity of these kind of in-person joy experiences into more structured facilitation work, especially in these more buttoned-up situations like corporate teams?

Bahaa Chmait:

Sure. Yeah. It was a challenging transition to move from public activations into the corporate space. I hadn’t worked in corporate spaces before. One big factor, I think, was actually taking Voltage Control certification course because we did a project. And in that project, I started to identify exactly what kind of facilitator I was, what kind of outcomes I wanted to have, how did I actually create these experiences. And I started using those building blocks to create them in the workplace. And I think the biggest thing that helped me leap was giving myself permission.

We don’t give ourselves permission enough to explore, to be brave, to create. I was terrified to go into the corporate space, and slowly but surely, I started doing these little activations with them. “Let’s do a team-building thing here. Let’s do a team-building thing there.” And I came in with the mindset of instead of it being about me, I made it about them. And I was like, “How can I serve the needs that are needed for this environment?” So when I talked to the HR teams, the sales leaders, the sales teams, the team leaders, we’re disconnected, we’re not communicating well.

So I designed an experience for that, and it started to propel and it led me down some very beautiful paths. And you’re right, teams can be buttoned up. And I come in with the energy of having them see me be vulnerable. So if I’m going to invite them into an experience, I’m going to share something about my experience first, just to kind of model that. And like I said, if I know some people in the audience already, or if I know some people on the team, I’ll invite them behind the scenes to share as well, so that someone needs to go first. And through that, we can create some really cool things together, especially in a buttoned-up environment.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. What’s that journey that helps them kind of move step by step and get more comfortable and more vulnerable and more open, and what are folks ready for at that point, right? I think sometimes if folks aren’t ready to step in, how do we create that threshold that makes it easier for them to do so?

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah. Yeah. It can be awkward, right. Especially I think when people hear team building, they think of the old school style with the trust balls and sort of the forced fun, and we talked about this already, that team building it’s needed because you need to support culture. It’s not just about productivity. When you have a positive culture, it leads to productivity.

When you have culture of psychological safety and belonging, I envision a world where belonging is considered a metric and measured as a metric in productivity, so that we make sure that there’s space for it. And if you create a psychologically safe space, people start to move into it. It takes a minute, but they start to ramp up.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. And it can be transformative. So what were some of the most powerful shifts you’ve witnessed in others during or after one of your sessions? Anything that’s given you goosebumps?

Bahaa Chmait:

I think when people come up to me afterwards and they tell me, “I needed that,” and they have this sort of expression on their face like, “I really needed that.”

There’s a moment in every experience that gets designed, especially if it gets designed intentionally where you have feedback, whether it’s the executive leader who was dancing with his daughter and shares that experience, or I think teams have the ability to really be productive when they feel psychologically safe and have a foundation of trust and connection.

And I think that’s what really resonates with me when they come up to me afterwards and communicate that they felt safe enough to be vulnerable. Like I said before, connection moves at the speed of vulnerability. So it’s exciting. It’s exciting.

Douglas Ferguson:

You talked a lot about your TED Talk, and I know that it was… you were really excited about it, and it was kind of a big moment for you and took a lot of work. And so I was curious when you were in that work or even reflecting on it later, what did preparing for it help you understand about your work?

Bahaa Chmait:

You mentioned some great books and movies. There’s one that I’m reading right now called Chopped Wood Carry Water. Have you read it or heard of it?

Douglas Ferguson:

Yes.

Bahaa Chmait:

There’s some really great lessons in there where they talk about everything matters, the details matter, the little things matter. So when we were getting coached on our body language and the way we move on stage, the way we take applause or receive applause, the way we speak to the audience, which areas of the audience are we speaking to? The balcony, the lower level, the left, the right. There was so much details, and the whole time I was thinking to myself, “I’m just trying to memorize my lines, man. I’m just trying to memorize my lines and not mess this up.”

But when you focus on the details and you give yourself enough time, I think that was the biggest lesson that I learned, giving myself enough time, giving myself permission to fail in the practice enough times that when I got on stage, it was like second nature. It just felt comfortable. At one point, the audience was laughing at something I said, and then I actually started laughing because they were laughing. And in my head, I thought, how playful is this?

But I was also thinking to myself, “Is this allowed? Am I allowed to be human and laugh with the audience instead of just like, ‘I’m here to deliver a talk?'” So it was a really cool experience, and I think that for anybody who’s willing to be brave enough to do some public speaking or take the plunge, I say, give yourself enough time to fail enough times in practice so that when you’re in front of everybody, you’re just there to have fun and it’s just relaxed and playful.

Douglas Ferguson:

I love that. We’re big proponents of practice, as you know, with all the community events focused on practice and really encouraging people to spend the time when the stakes are low so that when we’re called on, we have the confidence to step into those high-stakes moments.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah. And I’m a big fan of the Facilitation Labs and the practice labs that Voltage Control does because of that opportunity and the ability to fail and continue forward. As you know, Chris and I were co-presidents of a global speaker series that celebrated failure, and we’d have speakers go on stage and share their stories of professional failure and the lessons learned.

And it was really interesting as facilitators of that experience to see, “Oh, here’s some areas where we needed to grow and we weren’t excelling as creators of this experience, and here’s some areas where we were growing and the next time we did it, we did it even better.” And yeah, life’s about practice. Jump in, jump in with both feet and see what happens. It’s exciting.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, absolutely. And also, I was even recalling you mentioning wanting to help others find their facilitator voice. So what advice do you have to give someone who feels the pull toward facilitation but isn’t sure where to start?

Bahaa Chmait:

I think about this little acronym, CBA. First, I think getting clarity on exactly what you want. As a facilitator, it can be hard to know exactly where you want to go, but just get clarity on something small. “I want to do this. I want to do that.” And then remove the limiting beliefs that you have around it. And the best way to do that is to practice. Best way to do that is to be around other people who you can fail in front of and feel psychologically safe.

And then, finally, the A is action. Take action. The more you just sit and think about it, the harder it’s going to be to move forward. And sometimes that clarity, sometimes you need to take action and then you get clarity. So just take action, take baby steps, move forward. For me, I didn’t know how to move into the corporate space, so I took the Voltage Control certification, and it gave me the stepping stone.

I was like, “Okay, this is pretty cool. I was in a safe environment. I was in a cohort of people that, some of them were in the corporate speak world, and some of them weren’t in the corporate world.” And I was like, “Oh, there are other people like me that I can connect with and feel this camaraderie with.” So take action. Get clear on what you want, even if it’s just baby steps. You don’t have to have the big end goal in mind. And most of all, remove the limiting beliefs that you have and give yourself permission to just explore.

Douglas Ferguson:

And this might be a similar answer, but I’m curious if we now zoom out a little bit because we were talking specifically about facilitation and facilitation skills.

But if we then more broadly look at communities and your mission of helping spread joy and connection as a part of daily life, what’s one step people might take to move closer to your vision that they’re realizing your dream of communities that have joy and connection?

What’s something that folks might do to have a little more of that? Is it about the playlist, or are there other things that folks might consider?

Bahaa Chmait:

The playlist is great for your mental health. Everyone should make a playlist. What I would say is, think about the dance floor analogy. Think about the first person who needs to go, and like we said before, whether it’s bridging connection with somebody, maybe it’s a colleague, you’re a remote worker, and you’re onboarded and you’ve got a few Zoom, and then what’s the rest of the time? You’re left to kind of connect, reach out, and throw them a dad joke and start building a relationship.

Most people don’t reach out because the other person didn’t reach out. And so if you just hop on the dance floor, get a little bit of bravery, a little bit of courage, some really amazing things happen. And when you send that dad joke to a colleague who’s working remotely as well, I think about 40% of the time, I get a response back. I get the laughing emoji, and then I get, “I needed that. I needed that.” Because everyone’s having a challenging day, it works hard, life’s hard.

So just reach out, bridge the gap. Be the first one to get on that dance floor of life, and people will join you because everybody’s craving connection. We’re in the middle of the loneliness epidemic, according to the World Health Organization. And we’re more connected than ever before through technology, and yet there’s this disconnection that we all have and we all feel. So be the first, or gather up a group of people together and be the first together. But take action.

Douglas Ferguson:

Love that. And I want to wrap here with an opportunity for you to leave our listeners with a final thought.

Bahaa Chmait:

I think that was it, the one I gave you. I think that was it. Be the first one on the dance floor. I imagine a world where loneliness is optional, and I’ll let that sink in because I don’t know too many people who would choose that option. But when we have enough human connection in the world, that loneliness would be optional, that would be a very beautiful world to live in.

So I think be the first one on the dance floor. Go first, reach out, connect with that person you haven’t connected with yet, whether it’s a cousin or a friend [inaudible 00:41:44] talk to in a while, or a parent, or if you’re a remote worker, reach out to your colleagues and just put yourself out there. Be the first one on the dance floor. I guarantee you someone will join you, and you’ll start to create a movement of connection that’s really beautiful.

Douglas Ferguson:

It’s been a pleasure having you on the show. Bahaaaa. And thanks so much for joining me.

Bahaa Chmait:

Childhood Trauma coming back. Oh man, it’s been so great talking to you, Douglas. Thanks for spreading joy in the world and creating opportunities for people to connect, whether it’s through the Facilitation Labs and the ability to experience what a supportive environment looks like, or through the regional meetups that you’re supporting right now.

I hope one gets started in Salt Lake City, where I’m at, or just your playful nature. We’ve worked together with some clients on a few different occasions, and I just love the way you show up. Joking, playful, jovial. You allow people to see who you are, and I think that’s really cool.

Douglas Ferguson:

Well, thank you for that. And Bahaa, you’re always a pleasure. And again, thank you so much for being here.

Bahaa Chmait:

Yeah, Douglas. Woo-hoo.

Douglas Ferguson:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab Podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review and be sure to subscribe and receive updates when new episodes are released.

We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog, or I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics, and collaboration. Voltagecontrol.com.

The post How Can We Combat Loneliness Through Shared Experiences? appeared first on Voltage Control.

At the 2025 Facilitation Lab Summit, Caterina Rodriguez led an insightful workshop exploring the powerful role of non-verbal communication in facilitation. In a room filled with facilitators, leaders, and team builders, Caterina took participants on a deep dive into how our bodies, gestures, eye contact, and even silence contribute to the effectiveness of facilitated sessions. Her session emphasized that facilitation is not just about words; it’s about how we use our physical presence to guide and influence group dynamics.

The Power of Non-Verbal Cues

Non-verbal communication, while often underestimated, plays a crucial role in holding space and fostering connection. Caterina kicked off her session with a fun, energetic exercise to shake off the “lunch slump” and get the room moving. As she led the group through a few lines of the Cha-Cha Slide, it became clear that how we move in a space—whether it’s dancing, standing tall, or leaning in to listen—has a powerful effect on the people around us.

Caterina’s focus on non-verbal cues was not just about body language; it was about the whole spectrum of communication that goes beyond words. She walked participants through three key forms of non-verbal communication:

Vocal Cues and Silence: The tone, pitch, and pace of our voice influence how participants interpret our words. Silence, often overlooked, is also a powerful tool in guiding reflection and allowing participants time to process.

Facial Expressions and Eye Contact: These are the most obvious forms of non-verbal communication. Facial expressions communicate emotions, and eye contact signals engagement and attentiveness.

Body Language: Posture, gestures, and proximity all shape the physical space of facilitation. How we stand, where we position ourselves, and how we physically interact with the room can significantly impact how comfortable and engaged participants feel.

Understanding Your Non-Verbal Style

Before diving into strategies to refine our non-verbal communication, Caterina emphasized the importance of self-awareness. Participants were guided through a self-assessment to identify their unique non-verbal style and how it translates into their facilitation work. She encouraged facilitators to recognize that there is no single “right” way to use non-verbal communication—it’s a matter of authenticity and adaptation.

Practical Strategies for Facilitators

The bulk of Caterina’s session was dedicated to hands-on strategies to improve non-verbal communication in facilitation. Here are some of the key techniques she highlighted:

1. Own Your Physical Presence: Your posture and body language immediately set the tone of the room. Facilitators who stand tall, make eye contact, and use open body language invite participation and set a welcoming tone.
2. Leverage Eye Contact: Use eye contact to engage participants and guide the flow of the session. By intentionally making eye contact with someone, you encourage their participation and create a sense of connection.
3. Experiment with Vocal Variety: Varying your tone, pace, and volume helps shape the energy in the room. For example, slowing down your speech or lowering your voice can signal a shift to a more reflective or serious moment.
4. Play with Proximity and Space: How you move through the room or position yourself relative to participants can impact engagement. Caterina encouraged facilitators to experiment with proximity, moving closer to build connection or stepping back to give space for others to contribute.
5. Embrace Silence: Silence can be uncomfortable but is an essential tool for reflection. As a facilitator, allowing moments of quiet after a prompt can encourage deeper thinking and invite more thoughtful responses from participants.

The Role of Non-Verbal Trust

One of the most powerful insights Caterina shared was the impact of non-verbal communication on group trust. Research has shown that facilitators who use positive non-verbal cues—such as open body language, making eye contact, and aligning their energy with the group—help build stronger trust within the group. When people feel seen and heard on a deeper, non-verbal level, they are more likely to engage and share openly.

Whole Body Listening: An Essential Skill for Facilitators

As the session drew to a close, Caterina introduced the concept of “whole body listening.” This technique encourages facilitators to listen not just with their ears but with their whole body—paying attention to verbal cues as well as non-verbal cues such as body language, facial expressions, and even silence.

Caterina provided exercises to practice whole body listening, encouraging participants to be present in the moment and to respond to not only the words but also the underlying emotions and energy that participants are conveying. This method helps build stronger, more meaningful connections and fosters an environment where participants feel truly heard and understood.

Key Takeaways

Caterina’s session reminded us that as facilitators, we are more than just speakers or presenters—we are the ones who set the tone and create the environment for connection, collaboration, and transformation. By refining our non-verbal communication, we can hold space more effectively and create deeper connections with participants.

• Non-verbal cues (body language, eye contact, vocal tone) are just as important as verbal communication in facilitating meaningful conversations.
• Being self-aware of your non-verbal style can help you adapt and engage more effectively with diverse groups.
• Silence and body language can guide the flow of a session, build trust, and help you connect with participants on a deeper level.
• Whole body listening is a powerful tool for facilitators to enhance their presence and ensure that everyone feels seen and heard.

Caterina’s session was a vibrant and enlightening exploration of the often-overlooked aspects of facilitation. It reminded us that facilitation is about the whole experience—the spoken, the unspoken, and everything in between.

Watch the full video below:

Transcript of Cat’s Session:

Speaker 1:
Thank you. So Eric did give you a teaser, and I’m going to ask you all to get on your feet because it is lunch. It’s that lunch slump of the day. It’s day two. People are a little tired. So we’re going to do little exercise. You might recognize this as it starts to fade in, and I expect all of you to follow. Yep. Ready? We’re going to… And I want you to get funky.

MUSIC:
To the left.
Take it back now, y’all.
One hop this time
One hop this time.
Right foot, two stomps.
Left foot, two stomps.
Slide to the left.
Slide to the right.
Crisscross.

Speaker 1:
All right. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. I let DJ Casper do a little bit of our warming up for us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So I am Cat from Orlando. It’s lovely to be here with you all. I wear actually dual hats in my work. So I actually have a full-time job where I do a lot of program design, learning and development, and internal org development facilitation for my full-time employer, which is ADL. Never a dull time to be in a civil rights organization right now. And then my other hat is as a consultant. That’s actually how I got plugged into this community. And I’m so, so excited to be here with you all to really dive into what we all love and eat and breathe, which is gathering people.

When I thought about what I wanted to bring to the space, I really wanted to think about the bodily experience of both facilitating and being a participant in a facilitated space. So a little fun fact about me is that I’ve always been in the social justice space in some way, shape, or form, but I actually got started in the theological space. I was training to be a hospital chaplain, quickly realized that I do not compartmentalize well enough to last in that profession. So God bless to those who do it. But what I realized as a chaplain in training was the importance of my physical and non-verbal presence in that space, because it’s often in situations where words just fail. And I got to really reflect on what was the transformative power of hearing and seeing someone without using my words.

And so ever since then, I’ve always really wanted to explore ways to bring that to the forefront of my practice. And so that’s what we’re going to be doing today. But first, why is this important at all for you all as facilitators? We don’t just create containers, we hold them, and how we hold them matters. And so as facilitators, the ways in which we hold that container are going to determine the outcomes, not just of what you’re trying to do, but also the connections that you’re making. So, we’re going to be doing a couple of things over the next hour and 25 minutes that we have left. We’re going to start at just understanding why non-verbal communication is important. We’re going to take a look at what does that even mean. It means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Sometimes we have ideas of the most obvious forms of non-verbals, and sometimes there’s some more unspoken ones that we’re going to also dig into.

We’re also going to be reflecting on and doing a little bit of a self-assessment. Because before we can even talk about how am I going to go into space and use this to both hold a space and engage my participants, I need to figure out, well, what is my non-verbal style? And I’m going to give you a spoiler, there’s no one right way to do that. It’s going to be heavily relying on a lot of personal factors that we’ll explore. We’re going to learn some practical strategies about how do we start to fine-tune our non-verbal styles in facilitation spaces to create those deeper connections and deeper more meaning-making conversations. And then we’re going to practice, right? That’s the theme of this summit, right, practice makes practice. We’re going to practice quite a bit towards the end in using non-verbal cues to both listen and respond.

So with that, I want you to ground yourselves in a time. Ground yourselves in a time, the very first time you realized the impact of non-verbal communication. This can be in a personal setting or it can be in a professional setting, either way, but one of the earliest memories you became keenly aware of non-verbal communication. What I want you to do is hone in on the impact that realization had on you.

So I’ll give you an example. My earliest one is personal. I immigrated to the United States with my family when I was 13, I’m originally from Dominican Republic. I come from a family that has a huge Latin American and Mediterranean background. Hint, hint, I may or may not be the facilitator that has three citizenships. So bingo for you. And so I grew up being very physical touch and proximity, not an issue. In fact, every space that I entered growing up, it was expected that you would, I mean literally find every person in that space and go [foreign language 00:06:15]. It was just you went around and you found every person in that space or else you were kind of seen as a little bit rude.

And then when it was time to say goodbye, we’d reverse it, ” [foreign language 00:06:31]. Yeah. Not a fun time during COVID. Not at all. So when we moved to the United States, when I was 13 years old we moved to Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Yeah, lovely place. I’m just saying yeah because of the shock, right? Imagine that drastic change in culture. I will never forget the first time that we met our neighbors and we went to go in and say hi. I was like, “Hey, nice to… ” and I literally leaned in and they went, “Nice to meet you.” I was like, “Oh, right, that’s not a thing that I guess people do here.”
In that moment I realized two things. One is I wasn’t even reading the situation. Non-verbals were not a thing to me up until that point in my life. And what the impact that stuck with me was I’m different from these people and there are big adjustments I’m about to have to make. And what that would mean later on in life and all the other thing,. But that’s where I think that realization of really big difference started for me because DR is a tiny country, it’s very homogenous. The US is not that. And so that for me was the first realization of difference.

So that’s what I want you to do is take the next two minutes and I want you to hone in. You don’t have to write it, you can if that helps you record it, but I want you to think about that first moment you became keenly aware of non-verbal communication and the impact it had on you.

All right, we’re going to keep that music going, but what I want you to do now, stay at your tables. So I just had you up and moving a lot. We’re going to move again a little bit later, but I’ll let you chill for now. Turn to your neighbor and if you have an odd number, it’s okay if there’s a triad at your table, and take the next five minutes to talk about that moment and that impact and what it meant for you.

So would love to hear from a couple of folks. Tell us a little bit about what surfaced in your conversations, whether you drew up an insight or something came up for you unexpectedly. Please share your name when you speak.

Speaker 3:
I have to share my name? Sarah. It’s Sarah. It’s Brian Terello, the one that won the gravy packet yesterday. So Granny and I are here talking about our experiences. They were both young, traumatizing experiences with a mother. Her mother gave her a look, and then I got a look in junior high school. I moved to a new school in a new part of the country where I didn’t know anybody and didn’t know the culture and wasn’t part of a group or anything. And I said something, I don’t even know what it was, but the girls gave me the look and I was like, “What is that?” I felt terrible and they just all dispersed, and I was like, “I don’t know what I said.” It was terrible and it was an icky experience. And they were wondering if anybody actually had a positive experience with this.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, I mean, y’all are in conversation with each other. Anyone have positive experiences? So many. Anyone want to share? Oh gosh, there’s so many hands.

Speaker 4:
I’d love to share. Oops. Can I share here in the middle since I have the mic? I’m Jackie. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
I was like, “Wait, wait, wait, wait.”

Speaker 4:
Not that I want to be authoritative in that way, but I’ll take advantage. It took us a moment to think about it, first of all, it’s not an easy prompt. And then when we talked about really that I shared that feels so powerful to me, I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily early, but it’s powerful and it has to do with certain morning rituals. I’m Jewish, and so when you make a condolence call, you do something you call you sit shiva. You sit down with a person, you might not even say a word to them. You sit with them and you let them lead if they want to speak. And just your physical presence of being there with them brings comfort to them and to you and you’re so attuned in that moment. It’s incredibly powerful.

I’ve also had the experience with people who have sadly been ill or had a loss in their family and just as a close friend sitting with them looking deeply into their eyes and feeling what’s in their heart. There’s something so incredibly powerful about it. And yeah, thank you for asking the question because that’s a positive non-verbal. I mean, it might’ve been in a sad occasion, but it’s positive in terms of the power of being present with someone.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, thanks for sharing that, Jackie. Really appreciate that. Maybe a couple other folks. Yeah, Catherine.

Speaker 5:
Okay, so my first memory, it came to me really fast unlike some of you, I don’t know why. But my mom was driving with me in a car. I was probably maybe two or three, I’m not really even sure. I was sitting in the front seat, so you know how long ago that was. I remember her at a stoplight, we stopped the car for some reason, and I remember her leaning down and giving me an Eskimo kiss. And it makes me a little bit clumped here because physical touch matters and that the small moments count.

Speaker 1:
Thanks, Karen. All right, maybe one more over on… Yep, right here, perfect timing.

Speaker 6:
Hi, I’m Lily, and I wanted to share mine because mine felt like a little bit of a cop-out because I’m actually deaf. I have bilateral cochlear implants, and so my parents really tried to do over-exaggerated facial expressions, like mouth movement, like ways to help me realize that when you speak you have to speak it, you can’t just move your mouth and make words. So especially before I had these cochlear implants, I couldn’t hear, and so they had to use those gestures, those facial expressions, the eye contact, the exaggerated looks of surprise or happiness or whatever to get me to make that connection to whatever the thing went on at the time.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, thanks, Lily, for introducing also that level of accessibility when we lean into not just our verbal, but also our non-verbal communication.

All right, so I want us to stay anchored in that. I think the big theme that’s coming up for us is the power and the lasting impact that non-verbal communication can have on us, whether it’s for the better or the worse. And so let’s talk a little bit about what we mean when we say non-verbal communication before we dig into exploring our own styles. I am a very systematic thinker. I love buckets of categories. You can tell I might be a little bit of a Virgo. Aye, my Virgos. Don’t worry for my Leos in the room, I’m actually a Virgo Leo cusp, so I got you too. Yeah, I see you.

Actually, what we’re looking at here is by column. Our first column is what most people immediately think of when we say non-verbal communication, it’s what’s happening on our face. So our facial expressions, how we’re using our mouth, our eyebrows to express different kinds of reactions and emotions. And then, of course, there’s our eye contact, so how we’re using our gaze. Where is it going to? Is that where I’m focusing? Have you ever been in a conversation with someone and you’re talking to them and then all of a sudden they’re like, “Uh-huh. Yeah,” and they’re over here and I’m like, “Yeah, yeah, I got you.” And so how we use our gaze. That first column we’re talking about face. That’s the most common recall of non-verbal communication.

Our middle column here is our whole body, our whole body and movement. So we’re talking about our gestures and our postures. This is much more upper body, so our gestures, how we’re gesticulating with our arms, with our hands. I actually tend to gesture a whole lot more, but I have a handheld mic because these curls will not be tamed and the mic would land right where it hits. So I would typically be gesturing a whole lot more with both of my hands, just because that’s how I grew up. And then our posture, how are we standing. We’ll talk a little bit about what those different kinds of body cues might mean in a bit. And then proximity and movement. So this is how we are inhabiting the space in terms of the actual spatial awareness, as well as in relation to people. So I’m here right now delivering some kind of information, but as you all were talking, I was moving around the room trying to glean some of your incredible nuggets of wisdom that you were talking about.And also, if I’m having a direct conversation with someone, if I move in a little bit closer to listen as I make that eye contact versus maybe move back as I’m trying to address a larger group of people. So all about the movement of our whole body.

And then that last column, that’s the one that actually most people don’t think of, which is sound. We think non-verbal means that it’s all about non-sound things of our body, but actually, vocal cues are a huge part of our non-verbal communication. So it’s not what we’re saying but how we’re saying it. So the tone, the pitch, the pace. You could probably tell right after we did the Cha-Cha Slide and I started, I was talking up here and a little bit quickly. Part of that was absolutely you should probably not dance that hard right before you’re about to be the one speaking, because I was definitely a little bit winded.The other part is just like those jitters that come in the first two to three minutes. I’ll be super vulnerable with you, it was absolutely the Cha-Cha Slide and nerves at the same time that had me up here, where I almost couldn’t catch my breath.

So that is what we mean when we say vocal cues, like how are we holding that voice, how fast are we talking, how high or low are we talking? And then my favorite one is silence. So how and when do you choose to lean into the absence of sound? We’ll talk a bit about what that looks like. I just want to leave you with just three really interesting key insights to drill down on this idea of why non-verbal communication is so important, especially for facilitators who are people-gatherers.
So there’s this thing called the 7-38-55 rule, which is often misunderstood and people actually think that the research says that 93% of all communication is non-verbal. That’s actually not what that means at all. What this actually means is it’s taking a look at when verbals and non-verbals don’t match, what happens, which happens a lot. I’m sure that for all of you in this room that are facilitating groups of people, often you realize that what’s surfacing verbally is only 30 to 50% of the story, right? Yeah, I’m starting to see some nodding heads in there.

What actually happens when those two are not aligned is that people actually pay way more attention to the non-verbal cues in the space than they do verbally. So when those aren’t in alignment, people are only making meaning at 7% from what’s being said. The other 93% is from vocal cues, so how it’s being said, and from all of the silent body language, facial expressions, all those other things that we just talked about. So this is point one as to why it’s really, really important for us to refine this and become really aware of what our style is and where we can lean in to engage our groups.

Next we have emotional synchrony. So this is that as facilitators who hold these containers, we have the power to shape the energy in that room without saying a single word with how we show up. I mean, granted, DJ Casper was saying all the words, but I didn’t say anything. I was just moving with y’all, right? There’s also something that happens where people start to unconsciously mirror the energy and the non-verbal language that we’re giving off. It’s not that it’s going to magically happen all at once, but because of the role that we inhabit as facilitators, they do look to us at a certain point, especially at the very beginning. Once we start to dig in, because our goal as facilitators is to create that incredible conversation between each other, not just with me, so they’ll start to take those cues from each other as well. But at the beginning, in that foundational first five minutes, they’re taking their cues from you for the most part.

And then our last little piece of research before we start digging into our own styles is around non-verbal trust. Research has actually shown that facilitators who use non-verbal cues and communication build stronger group trust. And so what that might look like, it can really differ. In this study, they looked at these three categories, but we’ll talk a little bit about a variety of different ways we might be able to use non-verbal communication. So here they were talking about open body language and expansive posture… I almost held it over here… eye contact and facial responsiveness, so being engaged with you, very actually visibly engaged and reacting to what you’re sharing. And then lastly, marrying an attunement to group energy. So a little earlier, Karen was talking a little bit about that mirroring piece and language. We’re going to talk actually about that mirroring piece as well in terms of body.

All right. So this is a lot of really nice information, but it means nothing if you don’t end up applying it to yourself. And that’s exactly what we’re going to do next. So there should be a three-page worksheet that is only two pages because we print double-sided to save the environment. No, it’s not double-sided, never mind. The printer made a choice. They did not get the two ply to one ply memo, and here we are. So I’ll briefly explain how this worksheet works and then I’ll give you a little bit of time. So the first part, part one, as you can see is called scales. And there’s different kinds of non-verbal communication methods in here. I want you to think about it in regards to two categories, your personal context and your facilitation or professional context.For some of you, those might be very aligned. For others of you, they may not be. And for some, you might be in the middle about some being aligned and some not.

And then the second part is rankings. And again, this is very personal to you, which is understanding your facilitation purpose, your facilitation style, and your non-verbal style. Which of those are most impactful in your facilitation practice for achieving your purpose in that space? So I’ll give you about five minutes. And as you’re filling that out, it won’t take you long, but the reason I’m giving you five minutes is because I want you to be thinking through these questions that we’re going to discuss afterwards. So for those of you that are like, “Boom, boom, boom, boom, I’m done in 10 seconds,” here are the questions I want you to start percolating on and maybe taking some notes. How has your culture, social upbringing, or conditioning shaped your non-verbal communication?How do your non-verbal behaviors shift in different settings? So start to dig in a little deeper and analyze that. Why might I change my proximity in a professional setting than I do in a personal setting? Or why might my eye contact shift? And then what surprised you most? What surfaced for you, whether it was a delight or whether it was, “Oh, that’s a challenge. That’s something that I need to think about.” We’ll do some focus music. I’ll give you all about five minutes to fill out that worksheet, think through these questions, and then we’ll move on to discussion.

We are now going to talk as a table. We’re going to do intensive pair work in a bit, so I want you to have a little bit more of a larger group discussion at your tables. If there’s a lot of people at your tables, feel free to split up into two groups of three or four, because I want to make sure you all get to dig into these questions really well. But if you’re at smaller tables, talk as a whole group. And we’ll give you about 10 minutes in those to explore, see what comes up for you and the insights you gain from those conversations.

So those were some pretty meaty conversations y’all were having. I mean, I walked around and the stuff that y’all were sharing and starting to dig into, incredible. So I know that there’s lots of interesting insights and connections that were made, and I’m curious to hear from you all what surfaced in those conversations.

Speaker 7:
Hi, everyone. I’m Pooja. One thing that I’ve always struggled with is projecting my voice. I am really great in a small circle of people or on one-on-ones, but when talking to one-to-many like this, unless… I mean, I have a mic right now, but I do ordinarily struggle with that. But I’ve also been told that I’m very facially expressive, that I use a lot of gestures, my body language is more open. And so in filling this out, it just occurred to me that maybe I’ve been overcompensating for my lack of projection with all of these other ways of communicating with folks. So I thought that was really interesting as I was filling this out.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, thanks for sharing that with us, Pooja, and having a very holistic view of, okay, not just what my one skill says about this, but as a whole, what does this mean and how am I balancing those things. Absolutely.

Speaker 8:
We had a really interesting conversation about the impact of COVID on our non-verbal cues, all the way from, first of all, proximity was a no-go. Even though we’re past that, I still almost pause for a second, I’m like, “Are you okay with me being near you? Are you okay with me touching your hand?” And then when everybody was wearing masks, I was saying I really struggled to read people without being able to see their mouths. And you had to learn how to smile with your eyes. And then just everything moving to virtual, your body language is just here up. And so then you have to readjust and be like, “How do I convey what I’m trying to say without the ability to move the majority of my body?”

Speaker 1:
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for bringing in the virtual element as well. A lot of times you think, “Well, it’s online, so there’s not much I can do.” But how do we inhabit that square of ours and how do we lean in and lean back and how do we use that space? Absolutely. I guess, sorry, your hand up first, and then we’ll go to you.

Speaker 9:
Oh, thanks. Two things. One is that I’m definitely better at facilitating than I’m in my interpersonal relationships, so I was like, “Wow, I’m much more comfortable with silence in a room of 300 people than I am at silence one-on-one. I’m much more comfortable with eye contact when I’m in a room with a bunch of folks than I am in… ” That was just an interesting personal reflection.

Our conversation veered towards the gender nature of things. I was thinking a lot about how I taught Designing Your Life at Stanford for a number of years, and the founders who taught it, one is a six-foot-five pastor of a male who has just this commanding presence of a room. And I’m like a short little Italian lady with boopy energy. Just like I could practice and I could say everything the same and I could make the most resonant points and people are just never going to look at me the same as they looked at him. So we had a really just cool conversation around different things that women have tried or not tried and projecting voice and not projecting, all the things. No real huge insights, just generative dialogue in that camp.

Speaker 1:
That is huge. Absolutely. Right? Yes.

Speaker 9:
Thank you.

Speaker 1:
Absolutely. And actually, I’m really glad that that’s what came up for y’all because that is what that question is asking, right? Because realistically, non-verbal cues are read differently depending on the identities we hold. And it’s not because of the identities themselves, but because of the conditioning and the systems we live in that teach us how to react to certain identities in certain ways. So that’s a huge insight. Thank you. Thank you for bringing that to the group.

Speaker 10:
Hi, everybody, my name is Adam. I grew up in California. My parents are from Wyoming, and they’re big personalities. So in this context, my house was never silent. There was always a TV on, always a fan on. There’s never silence. I associate silence with sadness, funerals, really dark moments. And so in my personal life, I’m a big personality, I’m very expressive as my coworkers totally know. But silence is very scary to me personally, but also in facilitation. And that’s a big weakness of mine that I recognize totally. But then I in this ranking, I put it at my bottom because I’m afraid of it. It’s scary. I don’t want to touch it. Get away from me. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I think it comes from, the first question, it comes from my home life for sure. I want to address that and maybe learn some more from today and in the future.

Speaker 1:
Thanks for sharing. So I think that was about six nos, so I take it you don’t like silence. Okay, just noted. Noted, noted. All right, Peter.

Speaker 11:
I have a quote for you from Edwin, my neighbor, when we did a one-on-one, “Let the silence do the heavy lifting.” It was so cool because we were talking about the earlier case of all the non-verbal cues and how silence… Like my example was a virtual meeting and how put the question out there and just let it sit for 10 seconds and 15 seconds and 25 seconds. Pretty soon someone starts to talk and it really unlocked a whole thing, which is really cool. So just want to add that.
One other thing, we talked a lot about virtual here. Often if I have a high-stakes conversation, I’ll switch my mic and I’ll have one really close to my mouth and I’ll have headphones on so I can really hear and I can talk very low. Seems to really make a difference, versus if I’m speakerphone and all that. And for a facilitator for me, it really puts me in a different space.

Speaker 1:
Thanks for sharing that.

Speaker 12:
So this is a trick that NPR uses, just to build off of the idea that we heard a second ago. So if you’ve ever been interviewed on NPR, especially in the studio, one of the things that they’ll do is they will turn up your own voice in your own ears. And so when they do that, there’s a tendency to bring it a little bit lower and say, “This is [inaudible 00:30:37]. Welcome to NPR.” And so you can do the same thing depending on the tone that you’re trying to go for. So thank you for adding that.

Speaker 1:
And thank you for your NPR tone. I love it. I love a good NPR tone. All right, maybe… Yep, we’re here.

Speaker 13:
I didn’t even bring this up to my friends here, but something Adam said made me think of something really funny. So I’m from Texas, and when I used to travel around consulting in the Northeast, they would always be like, “You don’t sound like you’re from Texas.” And I was like, “Well, there’s like 30 million people down there.” All the accents are homogenous now basically. But almost to a point, every single client would say that. At one point there was even a dialogue with my team about if I should start hamming up the accent to play on that idea, but it never happened. But just going through the notes, my tone and inflection and volume is something that I really deem myself on, and I just now recalled that story.

Speaker 1:
Thank you. It’s such a crystallized example of how our non-verbals completely get impacted by experience, whether we’re conscious of those experiences or not. Absolutely. All right, we’ll go to these… Oh my gosh. Okay, final three, final three. No one else raise your hands. We’ll go 1, 2, 3.

Speaker 14:
I actually have a question. I was wondering, so much of what I do is and what we all do. How would you augment some of that information to make it more accessible for neurodivergent folks or more? If you’re working with a group that’s really autistic, a lot of people on the spectrum, do you have any advice for that? Do you just make it really explicit? Is there something else you would do?

Speaker 1:
Yeah, well, so it’s tough because being on the spectrum means so many different things. And so it really depends on the group you’re going to work with. So there are some groups where you are going to want to lean more into your non-verbals because they don’t do subtlety. And that is super important.

Then there are some groups where your words become hyper important because it is just that the social reading is really, really tough. But I would say that’s a little bit tough to answer generally, just because it truly depends. Being on the spectrum, I mean, these days words are changing so fast, it used to be that we had autism, Asperger’s spectrum, now it’s all in the spectrum. And then there’s other things being lumped into the spectrum, so it really depends literally group to group. So what I would say is discovery is always critically important, including understanding how you’re going to be facilitating non-verbally and understanding those group dynamics and group needs before you even get to that space with them. And that will help lead you to some more insights and answers to that. Yeah. All right, my other two hands. Go here and here. Where’s my back mic? Where’s the mic in the back?

Speaker 15:
Sorry, mic’s getting…

Speaker 1:
Okay, no worries.

Speaker 15:
Real quick. One of the things when I saw proximity that I think about a lot as a facilitator, and I learned this from another co-facilitator, was even the design of how you do work in groups. Obviously because we’re constrained in space here, we have tables, but my co-facilitator, Taylor, would tell me, “Hey, oftentimes it’s not really democratized when it’s in front of somebody.” Even how we were doing some of our exercises today to have it on a wall versus on a table. And so even that kind of spatial awareness for me is a non-verbal exercise, not just my non-verbal, but when I put a thing on the wall and start posting and we’re all looking at it together, we’re all equal now versus it being the paper in front of myself or another colleague. Anyways, when I think about proximity, I’d love to expand that to this idea of how do we create spaces by which we all feel like we’re contributing equally.

Speaker 1:
I love that, designing for non-verbal inclusion. Absolutely. Thanks, Danny. All right.

Speaker 16:
I wanted to say something about tone and vocal cues. I also do what Sarah does up there in the graphic recording and people often ask, “How do you know what to capture?” And whenever anybody goes… what they’re going to say is going to be capture-worthy. And when they go through a slide like da, da da da da, da, I’m not capturing any of that because that’s not what it’s about. But I can tell before they’re going to say something that matters, so that’s how you know. And you all know that too. I mean, we all know that intuitively.

Speaker 1:
I love that. And that brings us back to sound. That’s the sound of breath. So relying on that non-verbal cue to be like, “That’s an important point to them.” Absolutely.

So before we move into our final practice, let’s talk a little bit about what are some of those non-verbal strategies that we can try to leverage, especially as we look at our scales. What I mean is you do not need to be at a level five across all your scales. It needs to be authentic to you, and it also needs to meet the needs of your group. So also how you show up non-verbally might have to be adaptive to your group’s needs and to what emerges in that space in a way that still feels like you’re showing up authentically.

But so own your physical presence to set the tone. Your posture and your body language are going to immediately kick off the tone of that session. So if I’m talking to y’all and I’m a little bit slouched and I’m just really closed off, that’s not quite as inviting you into a conversation with me as if I’m here and I’m facing you and I’m standing up tall, leaning into that generous authority. Thank you, Priya Parker. And owning that space as your own. You’re holding that container for those people on purpose.

Leveraging eye contact to guide participation, so that’s super important, whether it’s that I’m specifically focusing in on someone’s [inaudible 00:36:42] to let them know I’m paying attention and I value what you’re sharing. And just that gaze, that focus as a facilitator will make others start to mirror that behavior and focus in. Or whether I’m scanning the room and making sure that people know, “Oh, she’s not just here to listen to some of us. She’s paying attention to all of us.” Super important.

Experiment with vocal variety to shape energy. So who just talked a little bit about how she leans a bit more into these other strategies and interesting things with voice, because volume is not the only thing. And so understanding, if we want to really emphasize a point, does our pitch go up a little bit? Are we excited about that? If there’s something difficult in the space right now, I’m not going to be like, “Guys, this feels like there’s a really big tension here.” That seems like really… Right? “You know what? I’m sensing that there’s a sticking point here. Let’s explore that.” So tones go down. So managing the energy in that way.

Play with space and proximity to influence engagement. So Danny kicked us off a little bit in how do we start to think about playing with that proximity piece in our design and in the choices we’re making about how we structure our activities, but playing around and seeing how to inhabit the space and what’s working for your group and adapting to what they respond to.
So also a big piece is you should not be keeping the same exact levels of non-verbal communications throughout the whole time. You should be paying attention to what’s emerging and how they’re responding to you and leaning in when you start to notice, oh, okay, this brought them in more, that kind of not so much. So maybe I do a little less of that.

I don’t know if you all have ever worked with law enforcement, but I’ve done sessions for law enforcement before, and those look really different than when I work with educators, with students, in mission-driven orgs where I really lean into bringing that emotion full forward and using all different kinds of non-verbals. Whereas law enforcement, it is very much like you stand up straight and you connect with them. They’re much more around, “Give me the information. Tell me how it applies to me. I don’t want any of that woo-woo stuff.” And understanding what the needs are. If you have time to work with them over long term, you can start to crack that shell a little bit. But so understanding what your different group’s needs are is really important.

Mirror and match to build trust and connection. This goes back a little bit to what Karen talked about in mirroring language. Same thing with non-verbal language. Starting to mirror a little bit of the language that your participants are giving off with their bodies helps for them to start to create this really subtle form of connection with you, and they start to see themselves a little bit.

And then lastly, I’m sorry Adam, I’m going to tell you to embrace silence just a little bit. My rule is if I ever prompt the group, I do not talk for at least 10 to 15 seconds. At least. Sometimes I let it go for 20 to 30, watch people squirm a little bit until someone talks. But honestly, oftentimes we mistake that silence for people are not engaged when in reality what it means is just they’re thinking, they’re taking it seriously. And it’s going to help you do two things. It’s going to help get you to deeper meaningful dialogue with your groups. And it’s also going to help create a space where those that might hesitate to speak up don’t feel pressure that they need to do it now. Have you ever been prompted and then all of a sudden, two to three seconds later, it’s like, “Anyone? So any thoughts?”

And if I’m the person that has a hard time speaking up, I’m going, “No thoughts. No, just anxiety.” So playing around with those different kinds of non-verbal communication methods. I use the phrase playing around on purpose. Like I said, there’s no one right way to do it. Every group is going to have different needs, so play with it. See how your groups react, engage or don’t engage and make adjustments.

Our last exercise for the day, I said we were going to deepen our listening skills. We are going to do whole body listening. What does that mean? That is the wrong arrow. Yes. So what does that mean? So three levels of listening, we have focused listening… oh, sorry, we have internal listening, focused listening, and whole body listening. What internal listening is level one, is that we are listening to respond. This is where a lot of folks, especially in the spaces that we work with, are typically at, where I am listening and trying to figure out what I’m going to say to you next to the point that I miss all non-verbal cues and half of the verbal ones too. I’m just like listening to formulate my own response.

Then we have focused listening. This is where a lot of facilitators are at, where we are paying attention, we’re doing active listening, we’re paraphrasing to make sure we got it right. We’re asking those curious questions to probe a little bit deeper, right? We’re listening to understand. And then there’s whole body listening, which is when we listen to connect. What whole body listening looks like is that I am responding to what you are saying with your mouth and with your body. And so, all of a sudden my curious questions aren’t necessarily just based on what you’re saying to me, but how you’re saying it. “Hey, I’m curious, you hesitated in that moment before you shared that. I just want to know why. What about that made you hesitate?” or “Your face lit up when you were talking about this? What about that excites you?” So all of a sudden, your curiosity, your questions become about what their needs and values are, what’s important to them, not what I’m trying to understand for myself alone. So that’s whole body listening. S.

O what’s going on underneath the surface? Level one, when we’re listening to respond, it’s very ego-driven. It’s just about me and what I’m bringing to it. So we’re easily activated, we have very low regulation because it’s all about me, and anything that even slightly challenges my perspective I feel very defensive about. The outcome of this is that people do not feel heard. They feel shut down.

And then when we think about focused listening, what’s going on here? We’re better emotionally regulated because it’s not all about me. I really want to understand you, so there’s a little bit more cognitive engagement. I’m really trying to pay attention and respond to what you are saying, not what I’m thinking. And we’re starting to practice not just active listening, but that active curiosity.

And then when we go into whole body listening, our level three listening, that’s where we get into a space of deep empathy, because our responses are to try to meet the needs of that other person and drill deeper into what’s important to them. That’s where we get into that heightened sense of awareness where I end up paying attention and listening to everything about you. That’s where we get to that relational [inaudible 00:44:19] where all of a sudden I am feeling this connection because I have been listened to in a way that took me to places that I never knew I needed to go, and that’s where we ended up.
So with that, that’s exactly what we’re going to do. But we’re not going to do two rounds. The conversation was so rich that as a facilitator I adapted to what emerged and I made some quick changes. So here’s what we’re going to do. We are going to do one full round. We’re not going to do the last step, which is repeat. Your prompt is, what is a moment in your facilitation practice that changed the way you lead? I know I didn’t bring any easy questions today, I am sorry. It doesn’t have to be the first moment, not the earliest moment, but what is a moment in your facilitation practice that changed the way you lead? It could be something you did and the way the group responded. It could be something a co-facilitator did. Anything, right? And it doesn’t have to be negative, it can be positive, but something that changes the way you lead.

I’m going to give you a minute or two to think about it, but the way it’s going to work is like this. I’m going to give you all 10 minutes. You’re going to find a partner. Now we are going to stand up. I’m going to challenge you to find someone you still have not partnered up with throughout this summit. What’s going to happen is one of you is going to share and respond for five minutes. So partner A is going to be answering this prompt. Partner B, I want you to do whole body listening as they’re answering this question to you. Don’t just hear what they’re saying, but see them. See them in their wholeness and start to ask questions based not just on their verbal, but their non-verbal language. So start to pick up on things and drill down on things that are exciting them, making them fearful or hesitant or anxious or question things.

You’re going to do that for five minutes. Then we’re going to switch. Partner B is going to share their prompt and partner A is going to do whole body listening and respond accordingly with curious questions based on what the other partner is not just saying with their mouth, but with their body. Anything I can clarify before I start giving you that thinking time? All right. So I’ll just give you a brief two minutes to think about this existential question. Seems enough. And then I’ll cue you to stand up and we’ll go ahead and chat on those pairs for 10 minutes. All right, so if you could, as you’re ready, stand up and find a partner you haven’t spoken to yet at the summit. And I’ll give you the five-minute cue when it’s time to switch.
All right. If you have not switched yet, please go ahead and switch.

Please thank your partner for listening and getting curious. So let’s spend just a few minutes or last few minutes together unpacking. I’m curious to hear from you all not necessarily what it was that you were talking about, but what the experience was like and you can choose to respond in either way. What did it feel like to be listened to in that way? How was that a different experience than your regular conversations? Or on the other hand, what did it feel like to listen and get curious in that way? What about it was maybe easy or challenging for you? And how did you find the conversation went for you as a listener?

Speaker 17:
Hi, I am Marsha. I was just having a conversation with Pooja here. Since the exercise was all about whole body listening, she spoke to me about three situations. The first two situations I’m like, “Oh, am I supposed to respond to this? Am I listening the right way?” So I got a little conscious there, but in the third situation, I was being a little more present in terms of what is she exactly trying to convey. And then I put myself in that situation and I was like, “Yeah, that is what I get.” And I think there was a little learning that I did through that exercise, so thank you so much.

Speaker 1:
Thanks, Marsha. Absolutely. Anyone else had that same moment of like, “Oh crap, am I doing this right?” Yeah, yeah, so you were not alone.

Speaker 18:
Yes, and I was super conscious when I was talking with Dan, which thank you, Dan, great job. I will say one thing that going to him I knew that I could already trust him because I knew that he was going to show up in that space for me. So that was something that was different in terms of how my expectations changed because I understood that. I noticed when I was talking, I was shouting at him. And I noticed that when I was listening that I was very conscientious about my body at that point and what I could give and how I could show that to him. So just giving and receiving in that conversation is very different for me in terms of how I’m going to try to show up is what I noticed.

Speaker 1:
Yeah. Thanks. Thank you, Monica. Yeah, it takes a whole different level of intention. Others?

Speaker 19:
I was going to say the exercise worked so well that we… or Brian was such a great listener that I spoke the entire time, so we didn’t even get to hear what Brian had to say. But he was so engaging as a listener that it just kept inviting more out of me that I wasn’t even thinking about to begin with. So fantastic facilitator in Brian.

Speaker 1:
Kudos to you both. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that experience. I think I saw… Yeah, and we’ll go here.

Speaker 6:
Hi, it’s Lily again. So at first I was like, “Oh my God, am I doing this?” And then it got really hard because I mentioned I’m deaf, and so the way I look at people is I read their lips, and that’s my connection of what they’re saying to what I’m hearing. And so I’m like, “I can’t look at their face and look at their body and then look at their face and use my ears and try and all of that.” It was a hard connection for me to make. I think I did okay. So it was just like, “Oh yeah, it’s kind of looking at all places at once and then taking it in and trying to respond in a way that’s like I’m not trying to respond just to respond, I’m trying to actually unpack it and get after what you’re saying.” So it was an interesting experience.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, definitely. Someone mentioned I got that practice, and this is also a muscle we don’t flex often, so it’s going to feel awkward at first where we’re like, “I need to pay attention to everything about you as you’re talking.” Where eventually it’ll get to a place where you’re just focused on their face and you just also soften your gaze to make yourself aware of the rest of them. But it’s not that you necessarily have to draw your attention to their whole and it’s like, “Oh, they bent the knee a little bit. What does that mean?” I’m exaggerating on purpose, but it is something that needs to be practiced and refined. And so I’m not at all surprised for folks not feeling quite there. Absolutely. All right. I think I’d seen… Oh my gosh, so many. It’s amazing.

Speaker 14:
I was really conscious of my height. I had this desire to get myself at eye level or below, like lower myself to them height wise. But I didn’t do it because it would’ve been super distracting because we were standing up. But yeah, sure.

Speaker 1:
That’s really interesting that that’s what became really hyper aware for you.

Speaker 20:
Hi, I am Jane. We didn’t talk about this, but as you were speaking I thought about animals and how in-tune you have to be with them, especially if you’re around horses, because they’re prey animals and they’re fearful and you’re always watching to see if they’re going to blow up over something that wouldn’t scare you. So I was just thinking about that, that if you pay attention to your animals to understand them, that could translate to people.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, because our bodies are the only way we can communicate with animals.

Speaker 21:
I would just like to say kudos to the Facilitation Lab and Voltage Control. In two days, I’ve already seen things a different way. So that’s pretty amazing that in two days that you can change the way somebody thinks. I’ll get my wife to come next week and y’all can help her understand me better.

But when I was talking to Lindsey, in our business, in the utility business, a lot of the things we facilitate just so fast-paced, aggressive. It’s all about this event could have killed someone or this event could have cost us $10 million. But when I was listening to Lindsey, I really caught myself wondering how she felt because she was put in a difficult situation instead of just nodding your head okay. But I was really sensing and I was even asking her, “How’d that make you feel?” I really got into the listening part. And then when she listened to my story, it really felt really good to be listened to, just the simple things in life that things get complicated and you tend to not appreciate.

Speaker 1:
Thanks for sharing that, Galen. Thank you. All right, I think I had a couple hands here, so I’m going to go one, two.

Speaker 22:
So I come from the K-12 education space, so I definitely noticed this, and I do something similar to this in my facilitation with teachers in having the ability to assess students without having grades on paper. What it felt like with the scanning was we were assessing the conversation and then we were able to dig either deeper into the conversation or to find another avenue to where the conversation was going. Through my conversation with Edwin, I noticed that he was able to tell me about a moment that helped him grow, and then I was able to assess to say, “Tell me a little bit about that moment of growth and then what can you do in the future to make this a better situation for you.” So that’s something I think that could be lovely in the K-12 education space.

Speaker 1:
Yeah,, starting to connect that forward-thinking as well based on the insights you get. All right. Going to be our last comment because there’s my walk-off music right there.

Speaker 23:
No pressure or anything. Hi, I am Susanna. I’ve been for the past few years thinking about eye contact because I’ve noticed myself, when I listen to people, I will look away. I was like, “What is that telling them?” And I’ve been thinking a lot about why is that. I find it’s like a sensory overload when I have to do all of the non-verbal thinking about it, but then also hearing and processing. And so it’s almost like I’m choosing to listen or I’m choosing to pay attention, but doing both at the same time is extremely… My ram is not catching up with this.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that, Susanna. Absolutely, this is something that is not intuitive. It’s not the ways in which we have been taught and conditioned to interact with each other and listen to each other. So it is going to take that practice. Like I said, I encourage you to lead into the word play when you think about practicing whole body listening, when you think about how to use different non-verbal communication styles and tactics. Use Facilitation Lab community as a place to be like, “Hey, you want to get on Zoom for 15 minutes and do some whole body listening practice, right?” That’s totally valid. That’s what this community is for. What I’ll leave you with is I know that it is a challenging practice, and I’m using the word practice on purpose, that’s our theme, but practice makes practice. Because being heard, powerful. Being seen is powerful. But being heard and seen that’s magical. And so as facilitators, as people-gatherers, I challenge you to hear them, to see them, and to go out there and make that magic happen. So thank you.

The post Non-Verbal Communication: The Key to Deeper Facilitation Connections appeared first on Voltage Control.