“There’s a spectrum of teaching styles, and there’s maybe the more traditional historical style of command style and sage on stage, all the way to a self-discovery. It appears to me that facilitation is really in that middle space between the command style and the self-discovery. [Facilitation] is about unleashing the collective power of a group.” -Sarah L. Collie 

In this episode of Control the Room, Sarah Collie and I chat about the influence facilitation has played throughout her professional career. Sara shares the valuable learning principles of facilitation that continue to inspire her, along with the direct impact that the Liberating Structures framework has on facilitation. We take a close look at how meeting disruption can happen no matter how prepared the facilitator is and how to redirect the energy in the room and recover attendee productivity if there is disruption. Sarah highlights what she’s learned from her facilitation experiences and the outcomes that can appear for any facilitator. She also notes the importance of prioritizing accountability for participants and creating conditions that cater to each unique audience. Listen in to hear Sara’s viewpoint on the opportunity that facilitation brings for people to collectively come together and create a supportive network that can lead to the true essence of exceptional facilitation.   

Show Highlights

[3:35] Dr. Sarah’s Beginnings in Facilitation 
[10:22] Valuable Tools in Learning Principles of Facilitation 
[17:17] Sarah’s Lessons Learned from Liberating Structures
[30:33] Sarah’s Take on Disruption in the Meeting Room 
[38:15] The Core Skill of Identifying Outcomes & Sarah’s Final Thoughts

Links | Resources

Sarah’s LinkedIn
University of Virginia

About the Guest

Sarah Collie founded and leads the Organizational Excellence Program at the University of Virginia. She partners with the University community to develop strategy, implement improvements, foster innovation, and build organizational capacity for change to support and advance the mission. She describes the work as “helping the university be better.”  Sarah’s higher education career spans diverse academia and administrative positions at several universities. She is a forever student of being a part of successful organizations and creating effective change and culture. Sarah holds a Ph.D. in higher education with a focus on organizational change from UVA’s School of Education, where she frequently serves as a lecturer and mentor. Outside of UVA, she enjoys applying her skills through board service and consulting to assist non-profit organizations to enhance their effectiveness. 

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a change agency that helps enterprises sustain innovation and teams work better together with custom-designed meetings and workshops, both in-person and virtual. Our master facilitators offer trusted guidance and custom coaching to companies who want to transform ineffective meetings, reignite stalled projects, and cut through assumptions. Based in Austin, Voltage Control designs and leads public and private workshops that range from small meetings to large conference-style gatherings.

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Full Transcript

Douglas:

Welcome to the Control The Room Podcast. A series devoted to the exploration of meeting culture and uncovering cures for the common meeting. Some meetings have tight control and others are loose. To control the room means achieving outcomes while striking a balance between imposing and removing structure, asserting and distributing power, leaning in and leaning out, all the service of having a truly magical meeting.

Douglas:

Thanks for listening. If you’d like to join us live for a session sometime, you can join our weekly control the room facilitation lab. It’s a free event to meet fellow facilitators and explore new techniques so you can apply the things you learn in the podcast in real time with other facilitators. Sign up today at ultimatecontrol.com/facilitation-lab. If you’d like to learn more about my new book Magical Meetings, you can download the Magical Meeting’s quickstart guide, a free PDF reference with some of the most important pieces of advice from the book. Download a copy today at voltagecontrol.com/magical-meetings-quick-guide.

Douglas:

Today, I’m with Dr. Sarah Collie, Associate Vice President of Organizational Excellence at the University of Virginia. In this role she partners with the university community to develop and execute strategy, design and implement improvements to foster a culture of innovation and change. Sarah’s work has been recognized with several awards including the NCCI Leader of Change Award and the Gold Facilitation Impact Award from the IAF. Welcome to the show, Sarah.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Thank you, Douglas. Thanks for hosting me, it’s really a pleasure to be with you.

Douglas:

As usual, I’d like to start off with a little bit about how you got your start in this work. It’s really amazing to talk to someone who is receiving awards from the International Association of Facilitators and is at the peak of what it is to impact change in organizations. There isn’t a straight path there always, it’s generally a secure  journey. Really curious to see how you made your journey to this pinnacle facilitator.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Yes, I think the term journey is a really accurate one. It’s been progressive in nature, and one that was probably with me, and in me for a long time. I just didn’t realize it, nor did I characterize it as facilitation. I’m a lifelong educator. I have experiences in teaching, in coaching and administration. I’ve worked at all levels from elementary school to college.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Honestly, they’re more similar than different. But the majority of my career has, in fact been in higher education. If I look way back to my teacher preparation studies, I think I learned a teaching style that was very facilitative in approach. I learned some key facilitation skills in my teacher prep background. Things such as starting with the stated objective, how do you organize and engage groups? How do you elicit certain outcomes?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I was relying upon these facilitation techniques, I just didn’t call them that or know that’s really what they were. Sometimes in education, you hear the term active learning, I think there’s some similarities, they’re not exactly the same, but some similar principles and concepts. The arc of my career then took me into administrative roles, and I was able to transfer and apply some of those facilitative techniques and approaches, but honestly, in a limited basis. There are strong cultural and status quo poles to how meetings are run.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I won’t say that I brought those facilitative techniques wholesale over to the administrative context. It was really when I was pursuing my doctorate in higher education administration when I became interested in studying organizations, studying organizational culture, organizational performance, organizational effectiveness. Got turned on to the works of people like Peter Senge and Edgar Schein. It’s when I made this shift in my career to one that was much more focused on improvement and innovation and change. But I would say facilitation took much more of a center stage in my daily life.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Many of those methodologies have facilitation embedded in them. It was a toolkit and skill that I’ve just started to build out and continue to grow. That’s my journey. Facilitation now is a part of my everyday life.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

One comment I would make, however, and I hope it won’t be too controversial as we start this podcast, and that’s that I actually don’t describe myself as a facilitator, I don’t use that term or that label. I realize it’s probably all in the semantics and the definitions of the word, but I see facilitation as a toolkit that I use to achieve other outcomes, other organizational outcomes. Whether they be strategic planning, process improvement, engaging in creating a healthy, productive culture. Facilitation is a means, rather than an end. That’s my approach to facilitation.

Douglas:

I want to come back to some of the stuff you were talking about, as far as, teacher training, and how that prepped you for this facilitation work, or maybe they didn’t have the same language or didn’t refer to them in the same ways. Specifically, something that we’ve thought a lot about is this connection between facilitating groups to a desired result, and training. Meaning that, we’re looking at a lot of these training or learning types of tools and frameworks and approaches, just learning science in general, and workshops and meetings, the similarities are very apparent, and the more we thought about it, it was like well, meeting participants are learners, is they have to show up and learn something. Whether it’s an innovation, or whether it’s a new strategy. They’re hearing new ideas from their co-workers that they have to assimilate, integrate, and then do something with.

Douglas:

When I made that realization, it made that connection between education and meetings and workshops and facilitation so clear. It’s really fascinating that you went through this journey. Then, as you started to see these tools, saw the similarities. I’d love to unpack that a little more with you.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Yeah, I think it really comes back to, that there’s a spectrum of teaching styles, and there’s maybe the more traditional historical style of command style and sage on stage, all the way to a self-discovery. It appears to me that, facilitation is really in that middle space between the command style and the self-discovery. When it really allows you to unleash the collective. Learning doesn’t happen in a vacuum, and what better way to learn than to learn with others?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I think that’s really what facilitation is about, is about unleashing the collective power of a group. Douglas, let’s stay with this connection between education and facilitation for a moment, because I think what’s central to both of them is learning. If you think about education, education is more focused on individual learning. While Of course, there’s some residual learning from being with others. For the most part, education is focused on learning at an individual level.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

But if you think about facilitation, facilitation is also about learning, but learning at an organizational level. Facilitation really enables organizational learning through groups of people. I’m pretty fond of saying, all the work of organizations is done by people. Then it would follow that all organizational learning has to take place through people, collectively.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I do see a really strong connection to both education and facilitation. In some ways, you might think of, individual learning and organizational learning as two sides of the same coin, and you need both.

Douglas:

I love that. We often talk about this idea that designing workshops and designing learning experiences are pretty much one and the same. We apply a lot of the learning experience design principles to our workshop design framework. It’s really interesting to hear about this notion of individual versus group learning. That’s really cool.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

We have a professor at UVA who talks about the world of hyper learning. Ed Hess, with the fast pace and changing world speaks of hyper learning, which captures this notion that you can learn with yourself and learn with others and it needs to be continual in this fast paced world to adapt to the speed of change.

Douglas:

If someone were to… A lot of folks find facilitation through design, or through specific tools and methodologies, and are just starting to get curious and approaching this journey from a different perspective. As someone who has a deep experience in learning, and various teaching and training styles, what’s something that you might suggest that people check out or keep in mind as they’re thinking about maybe applying these learning principles to their work?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I’ve learned a great deal from Keith McCandless in Liberating Structures. I think his framework and approach can be adapted by anyone and applied by anyone. That you don’t have to be a professional facilitator. I find that ease of his structures and his approach to be really helpful. It brings intentionality to facilitation, and I think that’s where you have to start, otherwise, it’s just a tool. It’s like, technology is a tool. If you think technology is going to solve a service improvement you have, well, it may not. It may, in fact, make it worse if you don’t effectively design and deploy it.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

That’s true about facilitation. It’s much more than just getting people in a room and having them talk. I think his framework really brings intentionality, and I think the most critical place to start is getting clear on the purpose of any given session. I go so far as to even write out a purpose statement to make sure that I have clarity about what the group I’m working with wishes to achieve in our time together. I think that’s why that dialogue with who you’re working with is so important up front, to be sure that you have alignment. Because you can’t go to designing a session, if you’re not crystal clear on the purpose.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

They may not even be clear on the purpose, which is why you need to have a conversation. Don’t ask them to fill out a form and submit it to you. But the power is in the dialog to dig in and understand, what are you trying to do in this session or series of sessions?

Douglas:

How are you typically having those dialogues? What’s your go to approach to distill that purpose?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Certainly, a lot of listening. Some people will be able to answer the question, what do you want to achieve? Many people will be more rambling around purpose. I think asking questions around what does success look like? Just asking questions of curiosity. Inquiring what is great look like during the session? Lead them there, and then I tried to take that, craft some language, a couple of bullet points and share it back with them to say, did I hear you? This is what I heard you say.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

If we achieve this, if it’s written in an outcome statement, if we achieve this, by the end of this meeting, this session, this series of sessions, is that what you hope to achieve?

Douglas:

Yeah, it’s always nice to start off with purpose. I find that to be lacking, quite often. Even when there’s a focus put on it, people can struggle with it, because it sounds so simple. But sometimes it can be hard to articulate, especially if there’s a lot of jargon, or a lot of, just here’s the project brief, and we just keep coming back to that language. People aren’t getting to what’s the root of what’s driving this? I’m curious if you’ve run into that before.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Yes. I have to go back to Priya Parker. Priya Parker said something very clear on this point. She emphasized that we assume that the purpose is known and shared when we gather. The reality is that it isn’t. I don’t know about you, but I go to plenty of meetings where it’s really not clear to me what purpose, or what my role is, as an attendee. Am I there to provide ideas? Am I there to provide feedback? Am I there to ask questions of clarification?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

What happens a lot of the time is the participants will remain passive and quiet, because the purpose isn’t clear, nor is their role.

Douglas:

I think that’s spot on. In our book, Magical Meetings, we talk about the need to, not only can you clarify your purpose, as far as writing it down and what it is, but if you don’t communicate it, and you don’t clarify it to your participants, then you haven’t gone far enough. To that point, I think it is important to even rename our meetings.

Douglas:

Often, our calendars are full of stuff, and it’s like, I don’t even know what this is. Can their names at least give us a hint on our purpose or take us there?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Yes. Often, that’s all you have to go on. There is no agenda, but it’s just here’s the name of the meeting, show up. My experience is many, many meetings, probably some 90% are what I would classify as the traditional talk at meeting. The convener, the leader, the presenter, will talk at, using up probably 55 minutes of a 60 minute time period. Maybe at the very end ask if there any questions.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Sometimes they’ll have a very dense PowerPoint to go with it, and they’ll read those PowerPoint slides to you. I see some meetings where they’re sending out the information in advance, which I think is a wonderful way to set expectations about what the meeting’s about, the kind of information that’ll be conveyed. However, don’t then come in and read the PowerPoint, because you’ve now conditioned people to not do any pre-work, to do any pre-thinking, to come prepared for dialogue. We’ve conditioned them to expect, oh, I will come and be a passive participant in this meeting.

Douglas:

Yeah, it’s interesting, this notion of being passive, versus something you said earlier around unleashing the collective. I’d already scribbled that down, because I was going to take us back to Liberating Structures, and you already mentioned Keith. I’m also a huge fan of his work. I think the framework’s fantastic for… To your point, anyone can be a facilitator, and that’s part of the allure. It’s like, what a great way to unleash everyone, if now everyone’s empowered to be part of the unleashing.

Douglas:

I’d like to dig into your experience with Liberating Structures. I know that there’s some case studies that got released about your work using Liberating Structures with the community there. I believe it was there in Charlottesville. Would love to hear more about that, and how you found that to be effective, and anything that listeners might find helpful.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Sure, well, Liberating Structures, as we’ve already stated, are just a wonderful way to really tap into the collective wisdom of a group. My core starting principle is if you’re bringing a group of people together, don’t you want to leverage the talent, the expertise, the knowledge, everything they bring? That’s the power of having a group together. Otherwise, you just have the one plus one, an individual plus an individual plus an individual and the limitations that come with the way we all think.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I think better with others, and I believe others think better with others. Keith has a set of principles. He helps you understand the micro organizing design elements of every meeting. Again, I think anyone can use those.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

From his work, I’ve adopted, I would say, four really core guiding principles for every facilitation idea. That is, I want to engage everyone that shows up. I want to be sure I can tap into diverse perspectives that are in the room. I want to create conditions to promote cross pollination. The last one is focus on forward looking positive conversations.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

That doesn’t mean you ignore the past. But we have to get past the past, and we have to learn from the past, use it constructively, so we can focus on moving forward. Those are really the four design elements I use over and over and over.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

When I’m working with a group, I actually share that with whoever I’m working with to co-design, because I do believe it is a co-design, even though I may do the first design and get some refinement from them. I share those principles back with them, so they can see how those principles show up in the actual designing session.

Douglas:

That’s a total power move as a facilitator, well, meaning that when you do that it’s inclusive. It also means that they understand the mindset behind some of these moves, and then you start to really get contributions that you would have got otherwise, because it starts to click for them. They go, oh, okay, that’s how I can contribute.

Douglas:

I’m a big fan of that. Plus, if you get a buy in and an agreement on the principles, then it’s a lot easier when people gravitate to some of their old behaviors, we can point back to the principles. It’s not the behavior we’re challenging. It’s like, didn’t we say we were going to do this?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Right.

Douglas:

That’s so good. It’s interesting, you mentioned these key skills that jumped out earlier. There was structured objectives, they organize and engage and then elicit these outcomes or these contributions. The structured objective, I think, is, from my perspective, is pretty similar to the purpose, but a little different. I’d love to talk about that a little bit with you.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Well, I think there’s probably an overall purpose, more of an umbrella purpose to any given session or series of sessions. Then you can Zoom in into an individual session or even part of a session. What is the objective you’re trying to achieve in this session, or in this section of a meeting? Is it ideation? Is it planning? Is it prioritization? Is it getting to action steps? Just being really, really intentional about why you’re doing what you’re doing.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I’m going to come back to Priya Parker, only because she’s been Top of Mind lately, as she’s out there, quite prominent these days. I love the way she also talks about openings, and the importance of how you open a meeting and open a session. I think openings and closings are probably one of the most neglected areas of meeting facilitation.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

People even on Zoom, or they come in the room and they’re sitting, there quiet, or some people are talking and others are sitting there doing nothing. It often starts with someone speaking to the group. I would just ask people to be very mindful about what do you want to accomplish in those first opening moments? Is it engagement? Is it connection? Is it being present?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I think you want to do that in the context of the meeting. It’s often maddening for me when I hear people take valuable time or see people take valuable time at the beginning of a meeting for a really disconnected, irrelevant, maybe icebreaker. What color M&Ms do you like? Maybe that’ll get people connected. But I think you have an opportunity to get people present, focused in those early moments and do it with, again, intentionality and aligned with the purpose.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

This is the comment Priya made that I thought was so well said is, an opening should connect people to purpose and each other. I just think that’s beautiful.

Douglas:

Yeah, 100%. To your point around intentionality, so many times, people will throw icebreakers around because they think, oh, this is what I’m supposed to do. It’s like a prescriptive, this is how you open. Sure, that shows up in a lot of openings. But if we don’t get down to the reason, the why that’s there, we’re not going to get the most out of our experience.

Douglas:

I always love to tell people, when we’re doing facilitator training, we’ll say, if you run an icebreaker, a warm up, or any sort of activity that’s transitioning or setting folks up for the next step, and you turn to the group after running that session or that activity, and you say, “Why did we just do that? And it doesn’t erupt into a pithy conversation?” Then you need to ask yourself, why did we just do that?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Yes. Going back to Keith McCandless and Liberating Structures, I’m sure you’re very familiar with impromptu networking, and use it regularly to open meetings. In my world, you would rarely call a facilitation structure by its name, you just give them the instructions. Give them a prompt, a question, and off they go. It’s a great way to have high energy, connect with your purpose, spend some time thinking about what the question is, so it’s really, again, intentional and aligned with your purpose. But great way to bring connection, engagement, purpose, bring people present.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

People are going from meeting to meeting to meeting, they enter the meeting, and they’ve got to get reset. They’re maybe reflecting upon what they just heard in the last meeting. So, get them present quickly.

Douglas:

So good. I run into that so often. It’s like, people running from meeting to meeting, and they just frantically show up. I haven’t actually measured this, but I bet you could study, what is the average time it takes people to actually transition into whatever you’re discussing? Because people are just going back to back to back, and it takes time. I call it the boot up time. If we don’t account for that, and to your point, the opener’s a great time, we should be planning on that in the opener.

Douglas:

But so many times I’d see people just cutting right into the content or right into the discussion. It’s like, man, no one’s had time to even get there.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Great.

Douglas:

Do you have any stories you could share about openers you’ve done that you thought were really effective? Maybe, what made them effective and how you were intentional about how you opened?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I think openers that are very personal, meaning you’re asking them to share a time when XXX, or imagine you are somewhere. I think it really starts with them. Who doesn’t like to share about their own experiences or their own observations or talk about them, and connect it to purpose? I think those are the most powerful ways to start.

Douglas:

Thinking a bit about the next key skill, which is to organize and engage. We talked a little bit about Liberating Structures. They’re great for creating engagement. What are some of your other moves, or some examples of ways that you’ve created more engagement?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I think there are many methodologies and facilitation tools that just have engagement embedded in them. Increasing engagement, I think there are probably two elements I’d emphasize. One is the way you set it off, the structure itself, to ensure… The organizational structure to ensure that everyone has an opportunity to participate.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

We all know groups can have dominant voices, so set it up, so everyone has a chance. That may be including everything from, whether it’s starting off with some individual reflection, because some people are more processors, using pairs or trios, small groups. But I would emphasize small groups to ensure that everyone has a voice.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

There are ways then to come back as a whole, and cross pollinate across groups as well so everyone, again, is getting the benefit of the collective input and the collective wisdom. I think how you physically organize, and how you create your groups have a tremendous bearing upon the amount of engagement.

Douglas:

You mentioned that we often have to deal with dominant voices, thinking about how we structure, or how we group folks, keeping small groups together and how the conversation can flow between individual to the small groups, the big groups and back and forth. Some people talk about Ws or zigzags, where you’re going up and down the small group to large group.

Douglas:

I want to just get maybe a story or maybe some advice around what happens when you’ve got some structure, you’ve been planning on it, but there’s just some disruption in the room. Maybe that dominant voice has just found its way in, or the participation’s out there. Maybe there’s some psychological safety that’s absent. What are some of your go to moves in the moment that maybe you didn’t even anticipate it? So you couldn’t plan for it, but what are some of your go tos to help get the team on track and help get everyone contributing?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

That’s a really important point. Because while I do emphasize the intentionality and the planning, there are certainly always elements of any meeting or session that are unknown, and you may have to deal with them in the moment. If you’ve done that planning well, I think you do mitigate some of this, because you flatten the power in the room, the hierarchy in the room. The leader is not sage on stage. I usually try to speak to the leader in advance and ask them to be a full participant. They are not there to espouse their viewpoints and have everyone align behind them in most cases, if it’s a true group facilitation.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I think there are things you can really intentionally do in advance to help mitigate. But nonetheless, it’s going to happen, and I think the structures will help you, because you don’t want to stay in one structure too long, where it can escalate and get amplified. I think limiting whole group interaction is another way to mitigate that redirecting. Even if you come back and you ask people to share, you can qualify it. What is something you’ve heard that everyone in the room must hear? That’s another Keith McCandless one. Not just come back and to give me a report out of everything in your group, but something truly spectacular, extraordinary.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

You’re helping them have some management of self, self-manage how they interact. Redirecting is just an important part of facilitation. If someone is going too long, can you summarize that point so they feel heard, and move on to the next activity or next part of the session?

Douglas:

That’s all really great advice. Focusing on engagement is so vital. I see, especially a lot of new facilitators, it’s easy to throw in the towel and go, “Oh, well, that’s just culturally how it is here.” It’s so worth the effort to lean in to the conflict. I think it’s the conflict where the lack of engagement tends to suffer.

Douglas:

For instance, if the leader speaks very firmly around, well, we can’t do that, or just shut something down, then all of a sudden, engagement, just will stifle or whatever. I think leaning into that and inviting a dialogue around it is scary for a new facilitator, but the more you do it, the more you will keep that engagement high.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

You’re going to have to adapt. You may have planned an activity for X amount of minutes and you realized you didn’t get maybe the results you had hoped for. So, you refine it a little bit, and you send them back and have them repeat it. Or you drop an entire activity in the moment. Or I’ve been in a situation where I was given some strong feedback that they didn’t feel like they had heard enough from, or qualified as the user voice in a facilitation session.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I reflected upon that, I took a step back, and this happened to be a multi-session facilitation. I took a step back, and the very next session, I organized what’s called a fishbowl, so they could hear from the users, this particular program was serving. I garnered the respect of the participants, they gathered more context and information that they needed, but it wasn’t in the original design. I actually appreciated that they have, as you described, psychological safety, to offer a suggestion. It didn’t let them tell me how to do it necessarily. I think we have to be careful in that space. I love it when people show up and say, “We want you to facilitate this, and these are the activities we want you to do, and this is the timeframe. We’ve already described that it’s going to be 75 minutes, or it’s going to be three hours. Can you do it?”

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I want to be careful that we’re not giving them all the power, but you do want to be responsive, and listen to what the needs of the group are, and adapt.

Douglas:

That’s right. It’s funny how I see facilitators that understand the inquiry, and active listening, and, just being curious, is the cornerstone to good facilitation. They get that in the session with their participants. But then when it comes to feedback on shifting the structure, or the activities or the agenda, they’re very protective, because it’s their baby, it’s what they created, right. But if we’re practicing those same skills of inquiry and active listening, we should be willing to adapt it.

Douglas:

At the end of the day, to your point, we are here for our purpose. There is a stated objective we’re trying to get to. I guarantee you that objective is not run these 10 activities.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Exactly. When I think about a multi-session engagement, I have a skeleton plan, and we’re starting here, and I want to get there. Perhaps I think it’s probably going to be three or four sessions, and I have a skeleton plan. But I honestly do not put the details around session two, session three, until I’ve had the prior session and see where the group is.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I have the luxury, in my work, of also adapting, in the sense that I may think it’s going to be a two or three session engagement. But if I need to, I can make it a five or six session engagement. I have that kind of flexibility, which is helpful to make those adaptive moves instead of feeling like it’s a linear process, and these milestones have to be hit. I think it also yields better outcomes.

Douglas:

Yeah, that’s really great. I want to shift to the key skill number three that you mentioned, which was eliciting these outcomes. I think that’s pretty critical, because if we don’t get to deliverables, if we don’t know what done looks like, if we haven’t understood that in our pre-work, or discovery call, or whatever we want to call it, A, we have no map to reference against, we don’t know when we’re there. Also, no one experiences any business value. It’s like, oh, we just had a lovely chat. But that’s like one of those things where people were like, oh, these workshops, they’re just a flash in the pan. This is one that’s very important for me, and I love that it’s one of your three core focus areas or key skills.

Douglas:

Tell me a little bit more about how you think about eliciting outcomes, and how you get there and what are some good principles to follow?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

When I think about eliciting, I actually come at it from two levels; a micro level and a macro level. The micro level, I think the eliciting comes from the structure and the prompt. It may not always be a very direct question. You may have to use imagery or use stories to uncover whatever it is you’re working on. Whether that be ideation or solutions.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Eliciting at the micro level. Then when I think about eliciting at the macro level, I don’t know about you, but I’ve worked with many, many groups or been a participant in where there’s lots of ideation, and then nothing happens. There’s no lack of ideas, but there’s a lack of execution and a lack of commitment. How can we elicit commitment and action?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I don’t like to leave groups without… I may not be able to stay with them all the way through implementation. But I can help position those groups to take the first steps and hopefully toward a successful outcome. Ways that we might do that is, if they have lots of ideas, helping them, prioritize them, selecting a few, understanding the context that they may be executing those in, and then really getting down to articulating what would be the first steps? Who would do it. But let’s even go one step further around, what are you going to do?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

You want commitment and accountability, it may be easy to create the plan and say someone who’s not even in the room is going to execute on these steps. Let’s have them take ownership of what they’re going to do and what they’re going to commit to and commit to that in front of the group, with the group and have some mechanisms of accountability in place as well.

Douglas:

15% solutions is one of my favorite closers.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Yes, that’s it.

Douglas:

That’s just so spot on. I love this, you’re thinking of the micro, the macro, because if we don’t think about how this fits in to a continuum, then the work could easily just evaporate or just lose momentum. It’s important to think about how things take root. There’s a really awesome book called The Messy Middle, which talks about, oh, it’s really easy when things are just getting started. Because it’s fun to ideate and figure out where we’re going to go. It’s really fun when products are ending, because the end’s in sight, and you’re putting on the finishing touches and stuff, and you’re getting it out the door. There’s launch parties, and everyone’s having cheese and crackers, whatever.

Douglas:

But that messy middle, man, there’s so much… Especially anything that might resemble a complex environment, there’s so much emerging stuff that we didn’t understand, and we just got to be able to adapt and deal. I love this idea of, whether you can stick around for a little bit as they start to veer in what might be the messy middle, or least shine a light on the fact that it’s coming.

Douglas:

The commitments really help with that, because if they’ve got ownership, then they’re going to stick through it versus saying, “Oh, Susan will figure it out.” Thinking about this macro, and the organizational development and change work that you do, what’s maybe a story that you could share, that highlights some of that work, and how you think about the macro and helping people in that longer journey?

Dr. Sarah Collie:

In terms of some examples, let me just start by providing a little bit of background about our program, because I think it’ll situate the examples. UVA Organizational Excellence Program is a resource and a partner for the university community. We offer a suite of core services around strategic and operational planning, process and service improvements, organizational effectiveness, project management, and navigating organizational change.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

In the course of our work, we apply an array of improvement, innovation and change methodologies and tools. We don’t subscribe to just one singular approach. I raise that because then we also integrate facilitation with those approaches. I would even go so far to offer that facilitation actually enhances many of those methodologies.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Whether we’re using design thinking or appreciative inquiry, we’re doing value stream process mapping or using change management, strategic doing. Regardless of the methodology or tool that we then add in facilitation. Some of them have it embedded in them. But in many cases, we’re adding on additional facilitation techniques. You asked me specifically about some of the work we’ve done. There was one in particular recently that was recognized, an initiative called Project Rebound, where we partnered with the local region and the local businesses to really come together, and launch plans for their economic recovery in the wake of COVID.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

That project, we convened more than probably 300 plus stakeholders in industry specific committees, as well as general community sessions to gather input, to help them sort through and prioritize ideas that would lead to actionable strategies and actually be a blueprint for reopening and revitalizing the local economy. It was a crisis moment for many of these businesses. Facilitation really brought out the best of people, really brought out that collective community power, even amid these challenges. They were really able to come together before looking, create a plan.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

But beyond that, they actually created a support network for one another. Almost everybody spoke about making new connections that would be long lasting. In fact, one of the goals of the project was to foster more ongoing collaboration that would go on long after the recovery period from COVID. It was just a really meaningful and impactful project.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

At the simplest level, what we did was create the space, create very intentional space for people to gather and engage and share in a productive way. I’ll be much shorter here, and just give you a couple of other examples. But we’re engaged with various process and service improvements, and facilitation is embedded throughout the effort. The early stage of discovery, what’s the current state? Imagining the future, what’s possible. Designing how we get to that future state, and then even after implementation, collecting feedback, and further refining the process or the service. Facilitation is embedded throughout.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Some recent things we’ve worked on include our capital construction, building process, hiring processes, enhancing support for research. Even in the academic space, we have a partnership with our Center for Teaching Excellence to work with academic departments in schools on curriculum redesign. While the center brings the expertise around curriculum content, to help ensure that it’s relevant and aligned with the desired student learning outcomes, we’re bringing in knowledge and techniques to engage our faculty, to be very inclusive, and to really help the department navigate organizational change successfully.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

While there are many examples, I could give my strategic planning, organizational effectiveness, I guess the final point here would be that facilitation really knows no boundaries. It’s applicable to all functional areas, it’s applicable to all constituencies. In our case, faculty, staff, students, alumni, even partners of the university. It just pairs well with other methodologies and tools, and it pairs well with all audiences and groups.

Douglas:

I couldn’t agree more that especially in complex environments, facilitation is a prerequisite for leadership. Leaders aren’t doing these things. They’re leaving so much potential behind and potentially, I would say operating at a high level of risk.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Yes. Leaders have the responsibility to create the conditions where people can come together and thrive and do their very best work. I don’t know how you do that if you aren’t using some facilitative skills along the way.

Douglas:

Yeah. I think that statement is such a powerful statement. I love to end there. I want to transition to this moment here at the end, to just give you a chance to share your final thought with our listener.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Yes. Well, I think I would just build upon that facilitation is leadership. Leadership has a commitment to help groups be the best they can be. I don’t know how you do that if you aren’t using facilitation. There’s a saying in the improvement and quality world where I work about organizations and systems deliver the exact results that they’re designed to get.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I would encourage everyone to look at their meetings as well. Your meetings and your sessions are delivering the exact results that you’ve designed them to deliver. That means if you don’t have engagement, you probably designed the session like that. As leaders, let’s all go back, look at our day-to-day interactions, take a critical eye towards our meetings and our sessions, and consider how we might alter the design and get different results rather than continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

I’ll end with this final quote that I have on my desk. This is my call to action for all leaders. An organization’s results are determined through webs of human commitment, born in webs of human conversation. Fernando Flores.

Douglas:

That’s so lovely. Thank you so much, Sarah, for joining me and sharing that lovely quote at the end. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you today and I hope you all the best.

Dr. Sarah Collie:

Thanks, Douglas. It’s a pleasure to be with you.

Douglas:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of Control the Room. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released. If you want more, head over to our blog, where I post weekly articles and resources about working better together. Voltagecontrol.com.

The post Episode 55: Facilitation as a Means, Not an End appeared first on Voltage Control.

“We have two really strong capacities [as human beings]. One is about discipline, finishing things, and staying aligned. …We’ll call that the discipline muscle. The other muscle is the initiative muscle. That’s where we’re going out on a limb, we’re taking a risk, we’re being creative, we’re curious about what might happen if.” -Diana Joseph

In this episode of Control the Room, Diana Joseph and I discuss the need for open dialogue between startup & corporate organizations and the unique space Diana curates to collectively bring them together through specified expertise. We take a look inside the world of anthropology and its benefits of implementation in the workplace and explore design-based research thinking. Listen in to hear about Diana’s passion in design-based research and the explorative efforts both corporate and startup organizations can gain in changing the conversation and working together. 

Show Highlights

[1:31] Diana’s Start in Corporate Innovation
[10:25] The Startup/Corporate Mashup 
[19:31] The Design of Diana’s Unique Experience  
[23:26] The Anthropology Link in Work 
[26:36] A Look Inside Design-Based Research
[37:54] Diana’s Take for Newcomers Exploring Facilitation

Links | Resources

Diana’s LinkedIn
CAF

About the Guest

Diana Joseph is the Founder of the Corporate Accelerator Forum, a creative space  organization that encourages conversations between startup & corporate organizations. The expertise & shared learning experience Diana creates for these organizations allows them to lean into innovation projects without fear. For over four years, the forum has focused on interactive experiences to embrace learning, gain insights, and nurture professional relationships. Diana was the leading strategist at Adobe and has a diverse background in academia and non-profit organizations. She understands the strategic, design perspective and the innovation mindset required for startups and corporate organizations to succeed. As a leading design thinker and entrepreneurship expert, she continues her mission to accelerate meetings between large, corporate groups & startup organizations. With a Ph.D. in Learning Skills from Northwestern University, Diana’s specialty skills range from organizational innovation culture and design thinking to facilitation expert and startup mentor. She is the  reigning Co-Host of the Ecosystem Show on Clubhouse, where she explores the complex world view of innovation ecosystems. Diana continues her mission at CAF for corporate innovators to challenge the social environment in normalizing conversation between key organizations.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a change agency that helps enterprises sustain innovation and teams work better together with custom-designed meetings and workshops, both in-person and virtual. Our master facilitators offer trusted guidance and custom coaching to companies who want to transform ineffective meetings, reignite stalled projects, and cut through assumptions. Based in Austin, Voltage Control designs and leads public and private workshops that range from small meetings to large conference-style gatherings.

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Full Transcript

Douglas:

Welcome to the Control The Room podcast. A series devoted to the exploration of meeting culture and uncovering cures for the common meeting. Some meetings have tight control and others are loose. To Control The Room means achieving outcomes while striking a balance between imposing and removing structure, asserting and distributing power, leaning in and leaning out, all for the service of having a truly magical meeting. Thanks for listening. If you’d like to join us live for a session sometime you can join our weekly Control The Room facilitation lab. It’s a free event to meet fellow facilitators and explore new techniques so you can apply the things you learn in the podcast in real time with other facilitators, sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab. If you’d like to learn more about my new book, Magical Meetings. You can download the Magical Meetings quick start guide your free PDF reference with some of the most important pieces of advice from the book. Download a copy today at voltagecontrol.com/magical-meetings-quick-guide.

Douglas:

Today I’m with Diana Joseph at the corporate accelerator forum where she guides and gathers corporate innovators who work with startups. She is the co-host of the ecosystem show on clubhouse and author of many research papers, articles, and blog posts. Welcome to the show, Diana.

Diana Joseph:

Thanks so much, Douglas.

Douglas:

Yeah, it’s great to have you. So let’s talk a little bit about how you got your start in the world of corporate innovation.

Diana Joseph:

Sure. I’m going to take you back a little bit. So I’m a learning scientist by training. That’s an interdisciplinary field that draws on education, computer science, cognitive science, and tries to understand how learning works and then given how learning works, trying to create learning experiences that are very effective and sticky, memorable actually make a change in our skills and mindsets. And in my dissertation work, I focused on something called the passion curriculum project. I was really interested in learner interest and how we might create curriculum that uses learner interest to get at the skills and mindsets and knowledge that, let’s say adults want young people to get. So I was working with fourth graders, fifth graders, and trying to focus on something that really interested them. And it was really hard, so I also had to work on the methodology to help us make sense of that challenge.

Diana Joseph:

So that was called design-based research. So I had kind of the seeds of my thinking about self-determination there and the seeds of my thinking about design and iteration that were part of the part of that methodology. And then I had children and moved to be closer to my parents and took a job with Adobe where I ran a research group during the time when Adobe was moving all of its products, but even first it’s learning content to the cloud. So I ran the research group that was helping the people who used to write that fat book that came in the Photoshop box, instead of being writers those people now had to become almost anthropologists. They had to understand what was going on in the world of their product and who needed what, and who should produce what, because they were shifting to community content now that the cloud was a possibility. So very interesting work, helping them change and doing both quantitative and qualitative research. And then I got exposed to their internal innovation program, which was called Kickbox. Have you heard of that one?

Douglas:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, of course.

Diana Joseph:

Okay.

Douglas:

There’s some really great materials online still as far as I know it’s not around anymore, but all the old materials are still there for folks to check out. And there’s some really interesting stuff for sure that I advise all facilitators to check out and think about how it might influence your practice.

Diana Joseph:

Yeah, absolutely. I second that recommendation and it is actually coming back. Somebody bought the Kickbox concept and it’s coming back. So Douglas, I’ll make sure to tell you about a session that’s coming up, where we’re going to talk with some folks from IKEA, an innovation leader about, and the folks who are doing that, the Kickbox stuff now.

Douglas:

Nice, awesome. Looking forward to it.

Diana Joseph:

Yeah. So Kickbox was a really inspiring experience. I almost, if people are going to look at it, okay, I’m going to have to tell you, I was thinking about keeping it secret until they look later, but I’m going to have to tell you for context right now. So Kickbox comes with a beautiful bootcamp. I had the opportunity, I was in maybe the third cohort at Adobe with the inventor of the Kickbox program, Mark Randall who’s just an amazing, inspiring person.

Douglas:

What’s Mark doing now?

Diana Joseph:

I think he’s retired for the most part. Even then was very focused on his family. And so I think-

Douglas:

Smart man.

Diana Joseph:

… he’s been able to enjoy that, right? So beautiful experience, really inspiring. And at the end of the bootcamp, you get this red box and inside the red box are a bunch of resources. There are sticky notes and sharpies, and there’s a timer, and there’s some chocolate, and some coffee, and by the third cohort, I knew the most important thing that was in there, which was a prepaid credit card. It was a card with a $1000 on it. And that was really mind blowing because I mean, it was a good corporate job. I had money, I could have spent a $1000 of my own money on any project in any given time without feeling the pinch, particularly. But this was a $1000 worth of company budget.

Diana Joseph:

And no one had ever delivered trust to me in that way before. If I wanted money, I had to fight for it or expense something that already sort of fell into a set of expectations. And with this Adobe was saying to me personally, “We trust you. Here’s some resources, go do something interesting. And if you turns out you think we’d be interested too, come back and tell us, but otherwise we trust you that it’s a worthy expenditure of your time and money.” And it was just, it just completely changed my relationship to the company.

Douglas:

You know, it’s really fascinating to hear you mentioned this notion of trust that never been delivered to me in that way before.

Diana Joseph:

Yeah, yeah.

Douglas:

And I’m about to do a talk on innovation culture and how we can deliver that in meetings. And we’re kind of breaking it up into three phases, and one of them is the invitation. And so I’m almost thinking I want to bring the story into that presentation now because that’s such a beautiful story of inviting innovation, because that delivery of trust to you as a really strong invitation to do something. And it meant a lot to you, right? That was the significant kind of gesture.

Diana Joseph:

Yes, yes, exactly. They didn’t have to say anything else to make it clear that it was okay for me to do something that could fail. They didn’t have to say a lot of words about failure. It was just like, “Here’s money if it turns out interesting tell me.” So that took a lot of weight off that whole idea of failure as well. And because it happened to be me, it really hearkened back to the work I had done in graduate school. I talked about self determination and the passion curriculum project. The thorny challenge I ran into in trying to make these interest centered experiences happen, is that we are really complex when it comes to motivation, most of us are you do meet people who are absolutely zeroed in on a particular thing. Like I have a nephew who’s wanting to be a race car driver since he was five and he’s 22 now. And guess what? He’s a race car driver, okay.

Diana Joseph:

But most of us, it’s not like that. Most of us don’t have that kind of focus where we’re giving up a lot of other things that we could be interested in. Most of us especially if we were good in school, we have a lot of achievement motivation that’s going. We want to get that high score, we want to get ranked the way our context can rank us, right? So there’s achievement motivation, there’s maybe really deep interests, there’s social motivations, we want to be like somebody, and we want to be unlike somebody else that connects with identity. So there’s so many things that are going on. It was really hard to thread that needle.

Douglas:

I was just thinking that, I would imagine it can be difficult to sometimes align those things that can sometimes be at odds with each other. If you’re trying to self-actualize your dreams and this notion of wanting to be successful on the test or whatever context is thrown you, that situation may not align with this future goal, right? And that can be hard.

Diana Joseph:

Absolutely, and those things can be intention with each other. And I think in general, we’re not aware of those different motivations that are going. So because we’re not aware of them, we can’t use them as handles. Once we become aware. Okay, well, so I have my dreams, our intention, there’s some kind of conflict between the step I need to take to pursue my dream and the step I need to take to score well on somebody else’s evaluation. Okay. Well, can I invent my own evaluation that would align better and can I give that primacy in my mind, right? So the awareness becomes really useful.

Douglas:

You know, it makes me think about young adults that have responded to coaching advice with the phrase, “Can I do that?” You know, it’s like this notion of like, “Wait, I can write my own test.” And it’s like, “Yeah, you can.” I think our system has programmed folks to feel like there’s one way to navigate one way to succeed and then I think that permeates our work life and meetings. We run into this all the time with how folks show up as professional and they’re expected to behave or be a certain way. And I think a lot of times that’s at odds with our desire to innovate, ideate, create when we come in and we stifle all that because we’re trying to be so buttoned up and professional. And so that brings me to something that we were talking about in our pre-show chat, which is this work that you do, bringing together corporates and startups and I think startups are like maybe more stereotypically playful.

Douglas:

They’re in the garage tinkering, they’re the explorers, they’re the little sapling that’s just kind of does go in any which way it can to find the sunlight. Whereas like the big corporates, the big Oak tree, that’s like, it is what it is. It’s like not very malleable, it’s established. And so there must be some really interesting stories or even tactics that you found to help bridge that gap and bring those two together so they can work together without the classic example I’ve always heard is, like startups working with corporates is kind of like dancing with elephants. And so how do you help the startup not get crushed by the elephant?

Diana Joseph:

That’s such an important question. Let me give you a little more context of the kinds of experiences that I’m creating. Sometimes I’m bringing together the corporates with each other. So corporate innovators who work with startups need to talk to other corporate innovators who work with startups, because it’s really hard to develop best practices by yourself. It’s really hard to see what’s happening in the landscape when you only have one perspective to look from. And you’re also in this challenging social situation where you’re sitting in that exact tension that you were talking about, Douglas. Your job is to connect the internal stakeholders who have these very, very aligned tasks to fulfill every quarter that have been promised all the way up the hierarchy to the SCC. And on the other hand, you have your external stakeholders who are the startups, and they have a totally different set of goals and timelines that are truly existential for their company or their idea.

Diana Joseph:

And so the corporates like to talk to each other, there’s value in them just talking to each other within that same role. And then of course, there are times when we bring the corporates and the startups together to talk about what’s getting in the way. I’m working in situations where both sides recognize that it’s important to make that connection happen, but they haven’t been enabled to figure out how to do it. And then there were other times when we’re thinking about the whole ecosystem and we have stakeholders from all around our region or all around a particular industry challenge. So to zero in on the context where we have corporates and startups at the table, I’ll tell you the story of an experience that we built in December of 2019, which I want to say is last year, there’s like a whole missing one in there, but it was one of our last live experiences that we did before the pandemic.

Diana Joseph:

One important part of it was the curation. So we worked very, very closely with the corporates who were the sponsors of the experience to understand what they saw as the challenges that were stopping them from really connecting with the startups. This was for the materials industry. It was called Bridging The Gap Materials Giants, and Startups. So we curated on the giants side to understand what the most critical questions were. And then we curated on the startup side, went out and found startups who had their own challenges and questions, not necessarily the exact same ones that would work together.

Diana Joseph:

So that was certainly possible. But someone who had startups who had tried working with corporates and had good perspective on what had and hadn’t worked in that context. And then we designed a separate moment within that day long workshop, we designed a separate moment for each of those curated topics. One of them was a discussion. One of them was a poster fair. The corporates felt like they never got a chance to tell, they listened to pitches from the startups all the time, but they never get a chance to tell the startups what they’re about, what they care about, what matters to them. So they got to have a poster fair.

Douglas:

I love that. I was part of an event, I got brought in to help with an event where a group was working with corporates and they were kind of defaulting to their normal practices and standard like protocols, right? And one of them was like the startup pitches, right? And I couldn’t help but think to myself like, “Man, you brought these corporates in and they’re just going to listen to a bunch of pitches.” Like, I mean, it seems like there’s so much more of potential there and if I was at a corporate, I don’t know if I’d want to come like mentor startups and give them advice on their pitches and listen to pitches versus like help try to solve my problem, right?

Diana Joseph:

Yeah.

Douglas:

And celebrate my wins. Everyone loves a little struggle of the ego, right? And so this poster event sounds as music to my ears because I feel like so many times the corporates are just brought in and kind of paraded around these typical kind of situations that the startup communities kind of doing. And it’s like, I think if we’re going to bridge ecosystems, we need to rethink things and it sounds like you’re exploring some new approaches.

Diana Joseph:

Yeah. I think it’s, what you’re describing is the only moment where the corporates and startups get to talk to each other is this performative moment of the pitch. So the startups have worked on that and they’ve polished it and they boil it down to something tiny and either it hits exactly what the corporates happened to need, or it doesn’t because in that context, that’s the only thing the corporates are listening for is, does it hit? Okay, great. It’s a pitch. Either it’s going to solve my problem or it won’t. What we did in this event was to change the conversation to be like, how can we work together better? It’s on the side. So is a little bit disarming. You don’t have, it’s not only that one moment you get to have a longer conversation and get a sense for what these people are like as people, while working on something that’s important to both of you.

Douglas:

It’s also explorative and generative too. Right? So, like there’s new things that emerge from that situation versus like just things that are going into it.

Diana Joseph:

Yeah, definitely. So, yeah.

Douglas:

That’s really beautiful. That’s cool. So what are some of the things that you found that make for good relationships or foster a better connection through these folks that seem to be at completely different levels and vantage points?

Diana Joseph:

There’s a game that I like to play at the beginning of every session and I’m sure I steal parts of it from somewhere. So I apologize to whoever I’m not crediting, but I call it spectrum. And the way it works is I ask a question to which the answer is a quantity. So it’s a number or a size or something like that. And then people need to move in the room to represent their answer to that question. So I might say, how old is your company? So in the materials room, for example, this event I was describing, there was a company that’s 150 years old. And there was another company that just incorporated two weeks ago, right? So, you can see the difference and you can see that there could even be some overlap. Size of company, not much overlap their comfort level with innovation.

Diana Joseph:

We could see among the corporates, how things were different there. And because people have to move around, they have to talk to each other to find the right place. If I ask, how long have you been in your current position? People have to move and they have to talk with each other. So there’s an icebreaker component to that. There’s informational component to that because we can all see in the room, the answer to this question. It inspires other questions. So people start to put in, well, here’s what I’d like to see next. Here’s what I’d like to see us represent next. And that gets the ball rolling on dialogue.

Douglas:

Yeah. I’ve heard that referred to as the human histogram and I love it because it’s visual, right? To your point, there’s information that’s being shared, but it’s highly visual. We can just look across the room and get a really quick read on it. And then to your point, as people are getting inspired by, Ooh, I’d like to see this next, you’re building alignment, commitment, connection, all these good things are kind of coming out. That’s really, really great. And I love that you’ve got these two groups and you’re thinking about questions that might cause a little bit of blurring of the boundaries, which can be a really eyeopening moment for them. It’s like, maybe we’re not so different.

Diana Joseph:

Right. How long does it take you to get a contract signed?

Douglas:

Yeah, that’s so good. Oh, man. Well, amazing. So I want to talk a little bit more about the designing of your experience because I think that’s something that our listeners do a lot of. And also when we talk about meetings, this is something that we’re passionate about, drawing inspiration from folks that are creating workshops, events, any kind of experience, and how do we make our everyday meetings experiences? And the advice of just bringing agendas, it’s just not enough, right? We need to think about what is the arc of the experience? How does it start? How does it end and how do we want people to feel? I mean, even if people just did a human histogram in their status meeting, right? That might elevate things a little bit, it’ll be memorable. That’s for sure. So I would want to hear more about your process for designing experiences and if there’s any tips or tricks or things that listeners might be able to borrow from.

Diana Joseph:

Great. I mentioned curation. So these aren’t quite everyday meetings. These are sort of big, significant milestone meetings that we’re having. So, it feels appropriate to invest a lot into the curation. So we know that the questions were addressing are burning questions before we go in. We think a lot about who in the room should kick off the discussion or the workshop around a particular question. It’s not often an expert. It’s often somebody who has the problem. Someone who can tell a story about it, someone who is puzzled by it. By starting with a question or starting with a puzzle that invites, it creates a white space. It creates space that the rest of the community, the rest of the people at the meeting can speak into. So right from the beginning, we’re sort of creating a vacuum that pulls participation forward, if that makes any sense.

Douglas:

It makes total sense. And I love this idea of bringing the non-expert into, oh, we always talk about how, when you’re in a complex system, experts aren’t super valuable because their experience may not be applicable. And experts have a tendency to bring the solutions that worked in the past. And you know, what we’re facing right now might not be exactly what the expert saw. If they’re able to listen to someone who’s going through something and share that story, then they might be able to take all their experience and offer up some interesting insights. But if we start with the expert it might, all the people experiencing stuff, it might cloud their memory or even their vantage point of, they might get this false sense of hope that, oh, I just go take that pill the expert mentioned and it’ll be all good. Right? Whereas if we start with that curiosity, that story, it also shapes the narrative, right? Like, because we’re going to work best the perspective we’re going to look at it from.

Diana Joseph:

You make me think of the design thinking toolkit concept of the T-shaped person. Right? So everyone in the room has some expertise. We curate for that as well. You have some expertise, it’s different expertise from the person next to you. So if you’re very, very good in some particular point, but you’re also very good at connecting, listening, and sharing, then the group together can make a lot more sense. I think you have to have expertise in it, again, in a complex system there are going to be pieces of it that could be oversimplified if there are no experts in the room. If you put the experts in a context where there’s dialogue between them and between the generalists, between them and the generalists, there’s a lot of power there.

Douglas:

100%. And you know, I had written down a bunch of notes as you were talking today. And there’s some things I was able to come back to and other things that just kind of got lost in the forward momentum. But one thing I’m going to come back to, because it applies to what we’re saying now, as you mentioned, anthropology, and it just struck me just then it’s like a lot of this work is about being an anthropologist, whether we studied in school or not, right? Like, you’re kind of thinking about what’s going on here and how do we shape this little mini tribe, if you will.

Diana Joseph:

Yeah, when you said that, it made me think of myself as an anthropologist, trying to understand people. But also I think, I never thought about it this way before, but I think I’m also trying to invite everyone else in the room to be an anthropologist. Let’s understand each other. And it comes back to something that you said before also about invitation. I think the primary job that I have in designing these experiences is to create the invitation for a participation, the invitation to bring your ideas, the invitation, to bring your questions. And that’s what really shapes the outcomes.

Douglas:

I totally agree. I think that your point around nailing the research, so often we see issues with teams and just not doing enough preparation, right? It’s like they could kind of Intuit the moves. They could come together and collaborate. But the thing is, if we haven’t done the research upfront, we don’t even know what meeting we’re having. We don’t even know what workshop we’re doing. We’re just kind of maybe going through some motions, or we kind of put something on the calendar because we felt like the project needed to move forward. But if we just spend some time thinking about the questions that we want to ask, thinking about who might need to ask that question or share that story, I think everything else, especially if you got any bit of experience or skill, everything else works itself out, right? Like, once you figure that stuff out, it’s like, oh, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like it’s all unfolding before me.

Diana Joseph:

Yes. Yes, exactly. It’s almost like the more careful curation and design I do upfront, the less active facilitation I do in the room, because we’ve made the space call forth the behaviors that we’re looking for. We’ve made the timeline call forth the behaviors we’re looking for, we’ve made the materials call forth the behaviors we’re looking for. And then as facilitators, we can just come in and make a little point here and there to move things along if they need anything.

Douglas:

Yeah. I’d love to talk about setting the initial conditions. You know, it’s almost like a science experiment it’s like when they built a large hydrogen Collider, they then just get in there and just say, “Oh, how do we guide these particles?” They came with a very, very solid hypothesis based on research, set up very specific guidelines and then let it run. And then it stuff popped up that was unexpected. Then they would address those things, right?

Diana Joseph:

Right.

Douglas:

And then when they run an experiment, they’re probably just kind of sitting back for the most part and monitoring and making sure everything’s good. And to me, I never really thought about the analogy of facilitators or research scientists, but that’s probably not a bad way to approach it, which brings me back to another point that I had written down and I want to hear more about, which is design-based research.

Diana Joseph:

Yeah.

Douglas:

So help me understand a little bit more about, I can intuit based on some of the things you were saying, but it sounded like it’s a very developed methodology or body of work. And I’d love to hear a little bit more about that and how it continues to play a role in your work today.

Diana Joseph:

Design-Based research is a social science framework that recognizes that things are going to change. If you are doing work that’s intended to change the world, the intended to change even a small world, right? If you’re researching something that is intended to change its local environment, then your data is going to change. So a survey is not going to work. An interview is not going to work. We needed, there were actually a number of us who are thinking about building learning environments that were supposed to have impact. And we knew that we were going to need to iterate based on what we were learning. So we had to sit down and lay out what would be a disciplined way of thinking about that. It can’t be just that we randomly do whatever we feel like. That’s not science. It’s not comparable. It’s not credible.

Diana Joseph:

On the other hand, if we tried to hold, if we try to control, like in a lab science experiment, if we try to have a control group, that doesn’t work in the context of education, because it’s people who are doing things. You can’t teach one way for an hour and then teach a different way for another hour without being influenced across those two cases. So, we had to think about iteration. We had to think about how we could change goals. Maybe we would discover, maybe we discovered in the course of our work that we had the wrong intentions to begin with, we had to be willing to change any piece of it. So we actually formed something that we ended up calling the Design-based Research Collective and about 10 of us worked together very closely for, I don’t know, it was a long time ago now, maybe a year, to lay out the ideas we had about how design-based research could work.

Diana Joseph:

And it’s interesting. We still see people citing that early paper from time to time. The way it works for me most now is, it’s very close to design thinking. So design-based research and design thinking are very similar to each other in that they permit iteration, they focus on design, creating something that’s useful. The biggest difference is that in design-based research, we’re trying to develop theory. We’re trying to understand what are the repeatable principles from doing something this way. And in design thinking, we’re trying to make something.

Diana Joseph:

I think that on the research side, we’re not always good about finishing the project and getting it out in the world to have impact. Something that graduate students work on and then they move on to something else. On the other hand, design thinking is not as strong at developing the theory. So we make something that’s really powerful, but what happens to the lessons that we learned from that experience? Often they just kind of blow away in the wind. So sitting in the middle, having experience with both of these has been really helpful for me and remembering to pay attention to both sides of that equation.

Douglas:

Wow. That’s super fascinating. I’m going to have to dig the paper up and check it out because I can completely understand and appreciate what you’re saying about how the theory gets left behind. Right? Because while design thinking can make change in the world, that change is driven by economic interests. And sure there’s probably some nonprofits and stuff that are like doing some design thinking, but at the end of the day, those people get grants and they have budgets. And so there’s like, there’s funding that’s driving this work. Right? And so there’s limits to the focus, right? And so the focus is deliver this thing, deliver this change. There’s a lack of focus or incentives and rewards to codify and extract out the principles, the theory that are repeatable, like what does this mean for greenhouse gases? I don’t care. I’m working on like cleaning like water or whatever. So, yeah, that’s fascinating.

Diana Joseph:

Yeah, I think the same is true on the other side. So if you’re in Academia, whatever methods or whatever field you’re in, there’s also a need to make that financially sustainable. So you’re writing grants and those grants are dependent on you writing papers that are publishable. And it takes a really long time to collect the data that allows you to publish. That’s a much slower timeline than actually producing something that works, right? So producing something that works well enough to collect the data is as far as you really need to go if your incentives are to raise funding for your lab and get tenure. You don’t have to finish the things that you’re making.

Diana Joseph:

So it takes really something. And there are many professors who get past that. They have to really invest in bringing it forward into the world, because it’s not what they’re incentivized on to begin with. In the same way that if you’re in design thinking or innovation in any context, you’re incentivized to make something happen. You’re not incentivized to sit down. And it really takes something for you to invest the time to write it down in a way that you’ll remember and that others will remember, maybe not make the same mistake.

Douglas:

You know, there’s also, we’re getting into some interesting territory but there’s another issue that I think Academia faces, which is a big challenge, right? Because even if you do get passionate about pursuing the work and you take it out to go kind of productize or commercialize and expanded out, there’s this concept of voltage drop, which is like the work we did in the lab and the hypothesis we had and the research we did. Once we start taking it to different audiences or different scenarios, we start to realize, oh, okay, this actually is not quite as repeatable in different scenarios. Right? And now we have to go figure out why that is. And do I have the energy or the runway to go do that or is there another problem that might be more interesting to go research, right? So like what I love to do, what I have the gumption to do, and is it even a solvable problem, Right? It’s like looking at like, “Oh, wow, how do we even address this?”

Diana Joseph:

Yeah. That makes me think about all the innovation projects where we think of this idea of failure as kind of being a problem, because if it didn’t become commercially viable, so it failed. But look at all the things that you learned along that path. Like, okay, so that was a dead end. You learned that was a dead, at minimum, you learned that’s a dead end. We’re not going to do that again. But also you might’ve learned why it turned out to be a dead end then you can apply that principle. So there’s so much value in making these attempts. And then saying no, closing the door when it’s time.

Douglas:

You know, I think also there’s like an identity crisis too, right? Because it’s like, am I an entrepreneur or am I a researcher/academic? Right. Because when you cross that threshold and then it’s like, oh, this isn’t scaling like I thought. I sure I learned these lessons, but do I want to continue to be an entrepreneur or do I want to go back to what I know and what I love maybe? So I think it’s a really fascinating challenge. And I watched it from a distance because I’ve never really, I’ve never been a researcher but it’s super fascinating.

Diana Joseph:

I feel it really personally now, not so much the researcher side, but there’s doing the actual work of designing these experiences and the curation and bringing people together. And then there’s the business side, and I’m not a business person. That’s not where I come, I mean, I am now because I put myself in that, but it’s not my background. And so I’ve been thinking a lot about, well, where can we partner? Maybe someone is a researcher who needs somebody who’s got a stronger focus on the business. Maybe not everybody has to wear all of the hats at the same time.

Douglas:

There’s got to be some interesting models. I’ve seen some accelerators that have focused on helping academics commercialize some of their inventions. And it really, the ones I’ve talked to tell me that it really depends on the university’s policies around IP.

Diana Joseph:

So much.

Douglas:

And because if they’ve locked it down too tight, then it’s like it doesn’t give them much wiggle room to even help the academic, right?

Diana Joseph:

Tech transfer is like this really boring thing that has such a huge impact. We’re actually hearing about it a lot on the Ecosystem Show that you mentioned before. So every week we’re visiting a different entrepreneurial ecosystem, often in biotech. We’re doing this one hour thing on clubhouse in lots of different places. So like this week was London, next week was Paris. And tech transfer comes up all the time in so many places. It really depends culturally, it depends on where you are by country, even by city, even by school, how the tech transfer office is thinking about IP.

Diana Joseph:

Sometimes the university has pressure on the tech transfer office to make lots of money. And so then they ask faculty, who are starting a business, to give them lots and lots of equity in the business. And once they do that, it’s not possible for VCs to invest. It’s not, they’ve made themselves into a non-investible business or the university has made it into a non-investible business. And so then it doesn’t succeed and doesn’t make money for the university either. At the same time, there is this agreement that’s been made where the university has invested a lot and has an interest. And so working out what that’s going to be is really important. A place that does it really well is University of San Diego, if people want to investigate.

Douglas:

Yeah, that’s great. It’s great to have examples where it’s done well. So I want to just shift gears, yet again. So this is, as we kind of start to close here, I want to come back to something that really kind of struck me. You know, we’ve talked quite a few times previously and it’s all really focused around the corporate accelerator work. And I’m just for the first time starting to realize your background and learning and learning science, and that’s something that I’ve come to appreciate a lot in the last three years, working with Eric, our VP of learning experience design, and kind of thinking about how we train facilitators and ultimately launch our certification program. And he’s mentioned that, it got my gears turning, I got really curious. I’d love to hear your thoughts, especially with this design-based research stuff you were doing around building, almost like adapting classroom or learning environment.

Douglas:

What would be your advice to folks that maybe are tuning in, that are interested in facilitation or are just getting started, or maybe they’re feeling like they’re just need to up their game in some way, especially in these times of rapid change. We’re on, S-curves seem to be just killing S-curves and the rate of change is just quite insane. I would imagine your concepts and your background could be quite informative for folks that are interested in amplifying their learning and how they can go about becoming better facilitators, better professional. So I’d love to hear your thoughts on how to navigate that and what the learning process, how people should approach the learning process right now.

Diana Joseph:

I think, and often say that everybody has to be more entrepreneurial. We should be very, very good at being entrepreneurial as human beings. We’ve evolved for it. We have two really strong capacities. One is about discipline, finishing things and staying aligned. And we’ll call that the discipline muscle and is particularly strong in those of us who liked school. You liked school and did well in school. School’s really good at building that discipline muscle.

Diana Joseph:

The other muscle is the initiative muscle. That’s where we’re going out on a limb, we’re taking a risk, we’re being creative, we’re curious about what might happen if. And that muscle should also be very strong in us, right? We’re predators and we have to adapt, right? So on the one hand, we’re flock animals. We’re very good on the discipline side. On the other hand, we are predators and we should be very good on the initiative side, but school doesn’t really help us very much with the initiative side.

Diana Joseph:

So those of us who did well in school tend to be sort of weak in that particular muscle. And those of us who hated school might actually be a lot stronger in it because we made it happen that way. I’m the first kind. So for me, learning by trying things out in the world, is really hard and scary, but it’s so much faster and more efficient than going to school and getting a degree in it. Not to say that you shouldn’t do that. When you know exactly what expertise you want, that can be really perfect. But when you’re trying to figure out what’s going to be my style of facilitation, let’s say, what am I going to offer in particular? Or when you’re trying to figure out, who’s the audience that I can benefit most effectively so that I can create my line of work?

Diana Joseph:

I would say that the way to learn is to just try it. That’s what tells you what questions to go look up on Google? That’s what tells you where you need extra practice. That’s what tells you what the unsolved problems are. And you said something about it earlier too and it made me think, this is what I thought being an adult was, and I really never did it before the last few years. I was always waiting for somebody to tell me which boxes I needed to check next. And so I invite people to step over that line, into the uncertain place where you just make a decision and it might be wrong. And that’s where the learning comes from.

Douglas:

I love that. So good. We often say practice makes practice.

Diana Joseph:

Well-Put.

Douglas:

Excellent. Well, it’s been so good chatting with you today, Diana, and I want to invite you to leave our listeners with a final thought. So is there anything you’d like them to keep in mind or maybe how to find you, or the work that you do? I just wanted to give you an opportunity to send the message.

Diana Joseph:

Thank you. The easiest way to find me is at corporateacceleratorforum.com. You can sign up for our newsletter to learn about experiences that are coming up, and we have lots of them that are free and open. You can also find me on LinkedIn. You’re welcome to direct message me there. I think I’m the first Diana Joseph that comes up, although there are many of us. I’d love to talk to folks. That’d be great.

Douglas:

Excellent.

Diana Joseph:

Thanks so much for having me Douglas. This was really thought provoking for me.

Douglas:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of Control The Room. Don’t forget to subscribe, to receive updates when new episodes are released. If you want more, head over to our blog, where I post weekly articles and resources about working better together, voltagecontrol.com.

The post Episode 52: The Critical Corporate/Startup Collaboration appeared first on Voltage Control.

“As leaders, I think it’s very important to determine ‘what kind of community are you building?’ ‘What kind of space are you providing?’ Leaders then have to decide ‘what kind of communities are we creating [in the organization], what kind of spaces and what kind of empathy do we have for the people on our team?’” -Elizabeth Maloba

Elizabeth Maloba is the Co-Founder of Nahari, an organization built for creating authentic spaces where collaborative learning and collective decision-making unfold. She understands the critical foundation of building community in the ecosystem of an organization and the level of trust needed to thrive when seeking solutions. Elizabeth ultimately believes that community is more than a place, it’s also an identity and ongoing process. Her work leans into the continuous journey of improving team dynamics and a leader’s need to transform conversations. As an expert facilitator with architectural influence, she challenges organizations’ approaches when conflict arises to instill sustainable, implementable resolutions from direct collaboration.  

In this episode of Control the Room, Elizabeth and I discuss the value of experiential methods, the impact the pandemic had on mental health in the workplace, the necessity and personal meaning behind community in organizations, and the benefits having challenging conversations have on cross cross-sectoral collaboration. Listen in to hear Elizabeth unveil the elements behind creating the community you envision for your organization. She also explores how to identify the root of core challenges your organization faces so that your team can build greater solutions together.  

Show Highlights

[1:32] Elizabeth’s Creative Start in Facilitation
[10:25] The Impact in Experiential Methods 
[16:18] The Pandemic’s Impact on Mental Health   
[23:50] Elizabeth’s Take on the Significance of Community 
[29:24] Cross-Sectoral Collaboration & Elizabeth’s Final Thoughts

Links | Resources

Elizabeth’s LinkedIn
Nahari

About the Guest

Elizabeth Maloba is the Co-Founder of Nahari, a change-making organization striving to create authentic spaces for collaborative decision-making & uncovering sustainable solutions to build communal teams. Elizabeth’s true passion is developing long-lasting beneficial relationships to support global development. As a speaker, entrepreneur, and moderator with a career spanning over 20 years in transforming challenges to solutions, she continues her mission to transform conversations by seeking out facilitators leading organizations. Her specialty skills range from facilitation and capacity building to knowledge management and conflict resolution. She is a current committee member of the African Fund for Endangered Wildlife and Friend of City Park, where she is committed to offer contributions towards policy development on all global, continental and national levels. Elizabeth continues her mission at Nahari by building better organizations through the lens of community, starting with one empathetic conversation at a time. 

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a change agency that helps enterprises sustain innovation and teams work better together with custom-designed meetings and workshops, both in-person and virtual. Our master facilitators offer trusted guidance and custom coaching to companies who want to transform ineffective meetings, reignite stalled projects, and cut through assumptions. Based in Austin, Voltage Control designs and leads public and private workshops that range from small meetings to large conference-style gatherings.

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Full Transcript

Douglas:

Welcome to the Control The Room Podcast. A series devoted to the exploration of meeting culture and uncovering cures for the common meeting. Some meetings have tight control and others are loose. To control the room means achieving outcomes while striking a balance between imposing and removing structure, asserting and distributing power, leaning in and leaning out. All the service of having a truly magical meeting. Thanks for listening. If you’d like to join us live for a session sometime, you can join our weekly Control The Room facilitation lab. It’s a free event to meet fellow facilitators and explore new techniques so you can apply the things you learn in the podcast in real time with other facilitators. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab. If you’d like to learn more about my new book, Magical Meetings, you can download the Magical Meetings quick start guide, a free PDF reference with some of the most important pieces of advice from the book. Download a copy today at voltagecontrol.com/magical-meetings-quick-guide. Today, I’m with Elizabeth Maloba, co-founder of Nahari, where she fosters the development of collaborative approaches to addressing development challenges. Welcome to the show, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth:

Thanks. Thanks. Great to be here finally.

Douglas:

Yeah. Excited to be talking today. So I want to hear a little bit about how you got started in this work around creative change-making.

Elizabeth:

Wow. I always think back and I’m like, “My God, I don’t know how this happened.” Partly because of course I followed the usual career path that everyone does, which is go to school, go to university, get a degree. And the idea was supposed to be that with a degree, in my case, this was a degree in architecture, I would go to the next step, which is the professional career path. And in this case go work at an architectural firm and go up the ranks. But somewhere along the way in college, I worked to pay my way through college. And some of the work I did then was facilitation work. I was working on team building and leadership development, a lot of it based on experiential methods. And I think I enjoyed that a lot, a lot, lot more than I did architecture because I ended up choosing that as my career path rather than architecture. So that’s how I ended up where I am.

Elizabeth:

One of the things I remember very markedly is that I read then the book, The World Is Flat. It had just come out. The first edition of the World Is Flat had just come out. And I remember thinking it would be so exciting to be able to work around the world without necessarily moving from my home city, et cetera. But at that point, internet was not what it is now and so on. And so it was just like, “Oh, such wonderful dreams in this book, but it will never happen.” And the other day I thought about it and thought actually it finally happened.

Douglas:

We’re here.

Elizabeth:

So in my lifetime, it changed.

Douglas:

That’s amazing. I’m really curious how your training in architecture has played a role in your facilitation style, because I specifically think about architectural charrettes and there’s some facilitation type of things that happen in the architectural process. And plus as an architect, learning to be a systems thinker and how things fit together could potentially contribute to the ability to help with linking and connecting people’s thoughts and things and seeing those patterns. So I’m just curious if you’ve ever noticed any of it? And if there’s any specific things you can draw to in your architectural training that have contributed to your facilitation style?

Elizabeth:

That’s actually a really good question because my family, everybody asks, “So why did you take six years of architecture if you’re not going to use it?” And the honest truth is that I think I use it all the time. One big aspect of it, as you say, is the design thinking, systems thinking, creative thinking aspect, where you’re faced with a blank canvas, you have a challenge and you need a solution and what do we do now? And all the bringing together of different aspects to build a comprehensive solution is a big part of architectural training. But I think for me, the other really bigger part is being able to connect with the context. So architecture is very much, so much more about, we spend a lot of time as architects trying to understand the weather patterns, the sun path in the place we are in, the ground that we’re standing on.

Elizabeth:

And things like the slope, the rainfall, the type of soil and geology that we’re working with. And it’s always about understanding the context and then putting up something that works best in that context. And in that sense with conversations, I tell people, “I design conversations.” With conversations and especially with collaborative processes, the contexts are really, really important. And so that ability to understand context and somehow synthesize learnings from that context and use that as a foundation to build a solution, is a very important part that I bring from architecture into my work.

Douglas:

It’s really fascinating this notion of the environment and the conditions you’re talking about and studying the weather and how the position of the sun is going to impact where you might place a window or the structural integrity of something might be impacted by the conditions under which it’s going to need to live and exist. And it was really interesting because I can immediately see the parallels between when we’re thinking about asking a team to come into this environment, and how are we thinking about the initial conditions that they walk into and how we set that up. And even how we maybe even protect them from conditions that we don’t want them to be in. I was just talking with someone the other day about how challenging it could be if the work that they normally do is within earshot. And it can be so tempting to say, “Oh, I need to go deal with that,” versus if you’re in another building or another room far away, those interruptions, distractions don’t happen. So that’s really fascinating to think about how just accounting for the conditions in the environment is so important.

Elizabeth:

I think it’s important as you say, both when we bring them in to work collaboratively to develop the solution, but also when we ask them to go out and implement the solution. So of the things that drew me to this work, as opposed to traditional consulting, where I’m an expert and I give my input, has to do with exactly this need, that the team I’m working with, if it’s a team let’s say in Nairobi is not the same as a team in Berlin, in Germany. And they have different conditions and they have different cultural processes and practices and norms. And how do we make sure that the solution we are building is sustainable within those conditions? How do we make sure that what they do and come up with as a solution can therefore then survive or thrive, actually not survive, but thrive in the context that it’s going to be implemented, because you see so many organizations, I find this especially when it comes to strategic planning, you see so many organizations that pay a lot of money for very expensive experts and get a really glossy looking strategic plan.

Elizabeth:

And then it’s not implementable because for one reason or another, the issues of a context we’re not taken into account or were not properly understood because maybe they were lost in cross-cultural translation. And therefore that thing is actually not implementable in the place that it’s being asked to be implemented. I have a very interesting story around that actually, we had to go and work in Benin, which is in West Africa, in the Sahel, with a friend, a colleague. And we were making this list of things we need. And she insisted she needs a room with a hot shower. And the people in the Sahel said, “Come on, you’re not going to need a hot shower here. Yes, the city you’re going to, there are no hotels really with hot showers, but you’re not going to need it.”

Elizabeth:

And she said, “No, I must have a hot shower. I don’t take cold showers.” And we go to the Sahel and it was that time of year when it’s so hot that nobody opens the hot water tap. So she didn’t use it and she said, “From now on, I’m going to be very careful what I say, because the context, the context.”

Douglas:

That’s amazing. I love that story. Also, it pays to unlearn a bit and be curious about what the locals or what the folks on the ground are telling you. If they’re saying it’s not necessary, it’s like maybe there’s something to what I’m hearing.

Elizabeth:

Oh, yes, definitely. You always have to figure out what assumptions am I bringing? And as a facilitator, this I’m getting more and more aware of, what assumptions am I bringing? What norms am I bringing into this space? How am I affecting the outcome in this space? Because we like to think of ourselves as neutral and we market the practice of facilitation as a neutral surface, but actually we are not. We are a very powerful force in that room. And we have to be careful what we then do with the power that we have.

Douglas:

I completely agree with that. I think the notion of being neutral comes from this perspective of not necessarily being biased toward an outcome.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Douglas:

We don’t have to support it and we haven’t been living and breathing it for a year or years. So we maybe don’t have that baggage, but you’re right, we wield a lot of power and it’s important to think about, are we unwillingly biasing the group by just the dynamic we’re creating?

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm.

Douglas:

So you mentioned experiential methods and how you were drawn to that. And so I’d love to hear a little bit more about what that means to you and how that surfaces in your work?

Elizabeth:

Wow. I think it’s been some time since experiential methods featured in my work, but I started out there. In those days, outward bound was the main thing and leadership. So yeah, it was outward bound, it was national outdoor leadership school. It’s the tuff that I see Bear Grylls doing now on TV and I’m like, “Been there, done that.” But what I loved about it then was that we learned by doing. And not by doing experimental things. It wasn’t something that was put on a table and you had to try it out, no I’m sorry, you had to get 22 kilometers from point A to point B with a map and a compass and a group of 10 people that you somehow had to lead and manage and someone. And then we would have a debrief about how that went, how did it go for you as a leader? How did that go for the team as a team and so on?

Elizabeth:

And that was much more effective at team building and translating learning within a team than situations where we sat down in a room and said, “These are the dynamics of a good team. And this is how you should have good interpersonal relations.” It’s different from when you have to walk 20 kilometers and you’re exhausted and you have to carry 60 kilograms, and there’s a person on your team who’s decided they’re not carrying the 60 kilograms and they’re not walking any more kilometers. And how do you then get there as a team at the end of the day? And when we debrief, then we have to talk. It’s very different in terms of improving team dynamics from the very theoretical exercises that come without experiential work.

Elizabeth:

So in that sense, I don’t do much team team development now, but when I’m working on team dynamics, I really try and give them a real challenge to solve that means that they have to then apply, bring their best strengths, bring their skills, and use their interpersonal relations skills in a very pragmatic way, as opposed to a theoretical discussion about what would be an ideal interpersonal relationship exchange, for example.

Douglas:

Yeah, that makes me think about this. We often talk about you can’t live in the conceptual all the time, and at some point you have to make it concrete. And making that jump from the conceptual to the concrete is very difficult. And so, it sounds like this experiential stuff that you’re talking about, the outward bound stuff is totally concrete, they’re in it, you can’t get much more physical than that. They’ve got a 60 kilogram pack on and they’re just sweating it out. And it’s interesting to think about what are some of the parallels or some of the analogous moves that you can make in the conference room that allow people to embody stuff, allow people to really experience it more than just think it.

Elizabeth:

One of the methodologies that I found that work is actually getting people to move around. So body movements. Another thing I find is trying to get rid of all the formality in the room. So as much as possible, and that’s normally not so easy. And also depending on the cultural setting, is sometimes not possible. When I work with diplomatic circles, then it’s really problematic because there are protocols. And those have to be, in some cases enforced, otherwise there could be a diplomatic incident. But try as much as possible to get rid of a hierarchy and try as much as possible to get people to do practical things and work on real challenges that that need solutions. And then they can bring their creativity to that problem and that challenge.

Elizabeth:

I have a friend who put it really nicely, she said, “Listen, I can tell you the swimming pool is warm. I can tell you that the water is 22 degrees Celsius. I can tell you it’s three meters deep at deepest point, but you will not know how that feels like until you’re actually thrown in at the deep end and it’s above your head and it’s warm. Or maybe it’s cold.” The experience of it is not describable. So if you’re dealing with crisis preparation or crisis planning, people can describe very perfectly that there will be a pandemic. And the pandemic is a really good example. The World Health Organization had a pandemic as one of the top seven challenges that would face the world within a certain timeline. They weren’t sure so they thought it would be a flu virus rather than a Corona. Yes, so two different things, but basically they had this as a threat. But describing it was not the same as what we’re going through living through it.

Elizabeth:

So long as it was a nice theoretical construct, there were nice theoretical constructs about how the World Health Organization was going to respond to a pandemic. But when it practically happened, then we saw what happened. Then we saw countries closing their borders. We saw everybody running into nationalism, protectionism, and so on. And suddenly we realize, “Okay, so this is really what happens when it’s real, as opposed to a nice theoretical discussion of what happens if we have a pandemic.”

Douglas:

Yeah. And speaking of the pandemic, in the pre-show chat we were talking a bit about mental health and how folks are still, I would say, navigating trauma and trying to understand it. And I’m a firm believer that as we start to open back up more, people are starting to shift that shift. And those changes and behaviors are going to expose that trauma a bit more because people are going to go through a transition of being in hunker down mode versus like, “Oh, everything’s quote unquote, back to normal. And so now I’ve got to reconcile this trauma that I’ve been shoving down.” And it sounds like you had had some experiences with that with some friends talking about just mental health. And I’m just curious to hear your thoughts on what you’re noticing, and also maybe how you think that might play out in the business setting to you?

Elizabeth:

So on one hand, what I’m noticing is that, we were actually just having a conversation and then I noticed, “Oh my God, I’m so privileged. I live in a house with other people.” I have a family so I live in a house with other people. So I don’t just have all my conversations online via digital means, I can talk to real people, whether we love together or fight together or whatever it is, but they’re real people in my space who I can talk to. And some of my friends and some of facilitators I work with around the world, they live alone. And in extreme lockdown, it was them, and if they’re really lucky, their pet cat, dog, fish, that’s it. And all their conversations were on digital platforms. And I think that was hard in its own way. It was hard in its own way, in so many ways for them.

Elizabeth:

But then last week, I think I was in a different conversation and we were talking about how the children learning from home went. And I was saying how I enjoyed it a lot. And a friend of mine said, “Yeah, Elizabeth, you’re not a good example, keep quiet.” I said, “Why?” She said, “Because the conversations in your house are not how conversations in most other households go. Many households are not safe spaces and they’re spaces of violence and they’re spaces where children are just told, ‘Sit down, shut up. Don’t talk. Why are you speaking now?’ Et cetera. And it’s not a constant engaging of curiosity between parents and children about what are you doing? And can I find out more about it?” And so this discussion was then that this is definitely, there’s going to be a big trend of people who really want to go back to offices.

Elizabeth:

And I’ve had this among a lot of people who say, “I used to think, I want to work from home. I used to think I’d love to be self-employed and be my own boss and make an office space at home. But the pandemic has taught me that I need an office. I need to escape this place that is my house for various reasons.” And that is a whole other area of mental health and trauma related issues to explore, because I think people then are coming to terms or being forced to come to terms with what kind of environment do they have in their houses? And why do I need to escape my house to go to work? But I think the bigger thing, especially in my context, is that people don’t talk about it. They’re not comfortable talking about it. They’re not comfortable admitting that they need help or that they sought help.

Elizabeth:

And there’s still a very big community of people who think you can push through it or power through it, or be strong through it. I’m like, “It’s an illness. You need help. And if the help is tablets, then the help is tablets, but you need help. You can’t recover from a tumor by soldiering through it. In the same way, you can’t recover from mental health challenges by soldiering through them. You have to get the help that you need from the specialist that gives it.” So I think more and more, this conversation is gaining traction and people are starting to talk about it. But especially in my context, in Kenya, let me say that especially, it’s still not something that people are so comfortable admitting and putting out there that they’re doing or they’re going through.

Douglas:

Yeah. I think people struggle with that many ways, across many locations, there are certainly folks in all sorts of contexts that feel uncomfortable sharing that. And it feels like a private thing and a lot of people suffer in silence. And so I think that leadership can play a big role in remaining curious, and really listening, employees and teammates and collaborators might not be completely forthright about what’s going on, but listening to their preferences and tuning in to what they’re asking for might shed some light on their needs at the very least. And I think it’s really important. To your point, some people are craving to be in office, while others are wanting to avoid it like the plague. And so we have to think about how we support things and also be willing to make some hard decisions around who we can support and who might have to look elsewhere to find the ideal situation.

Douglas:

There’s a lot of talk of people shifting jobs during this time. And I think it’s probably inevitable because that’s a big shift for a lot of folks. And they’re going to have to think about what that means for them and their family and how they take care of themselves. I think it’s a big deal. And I think as leaders, we just need to listen and pay attention.

Elizabeth:

I think also as leaders, I keep saying, well, the pandemic obviously made it obvious that we need a sense of community, but as leaders, I think it’s very important to determine so what is your community? What is the sense of community? When I was being told, “Your house is not the standard house.” My house didn’t become like that by… It’s by design, it’s intentional. So then is the question, what kind of community are you building? What kind of space are you providing? Not just in terms of physical office space and furniture and furnishings and fittings, but also in terms of communication and collaboration.

Elizabeth:

I remember being in a conversation with a business leader somewhere, and they were telling me about a team member and I asked, “But doesn’t so-and-so have three toddlers?” And they said, “Yes.” And I said, “Okay, so why were you calling them at X, Y, Z hour?” And they looked at me blankly like, “What’s wrong?” I said, “This is toddler primetime. This is bedtime, bath time, nap time crashing all into one. And this is the moment you want to have a call with them. It’s not going to work because they have three toddlers. We have to be cognizant of that.”

Elizabeth:

Or I had to have a call with someone else and I knew she was a new mum. And so I had the flexibility to say, “Listen, I know you’re a new mum. I know that babies are unpredictable. If we need to start 30 minutes later or two hours later, just let me know and we’ll figure it out because I’ve been there, I know this. And there’s no point in me trying to force you to be in a call if your baby’s crying.” But leaders then have to decide what kind of communities are we creating, what kind of spaces and what kind of empathy do we have for the people on our team?

Douglas:

So I want to take that community piece and run with that for a moment because I love just the notion of communities. And I’ve done a little bit of community building myself, but I’m always in awe of people that are really great at it. And so I want to hear a little bit about your approach and what community means to you and what you think is critical for sustaining and nurturing community?

Elizabeth:

I think I’ve went around about my work for so many years without the awareness of community, because I just didn’t think about it. It was there, it worked, it supported what I was doing, and so I wasn’t thinking much about it. One of my first moments of awareness came about in the conversation, not between me actually, but between my son and my dad. And they were talking about the name of the tribe. And as children tend to ask, my son asked, “Grandpa, what does Luhya mean?” And straight off the top of my head I was like, “I’m sure it doesn’t have meaning, it’s a name.” And then my dad says, “Wait, this is what it means.” And it turned out that it’s not only an identity, it’s a place, it’s a process, it’s something that happened in my cultural community where people came together and had conversations of all kinds. And there were different roles for different people in that space. And it made it work. And somehow they made meaning together. And somehow they found a way out of different challenges together.

Elizabeth:

And after this conversation, I started thinking actually, “So what is my community? What is my Luhya?” The exact question they ask in my tribe is, “From what Luyha do you come from?” And it’s exactly the same thing. What Luhya do I come from? What Luhya am I creating? What’s the identity of this space? What’s the space that we use to meet, because it’s also a space, which is in this sense, normally a very big open space with a fire, so it’s warm, with food, so nobody’s hungry. Sharing of food, so nobody’s hungry. And depending on the day and the circumstance and how it went, there might be a story, there might be music, there might be exchange or information like, “This happened,” or, “I met so-and-so and they said hello to you.” And they were kind of like, I would say the facilitators of the space where the elders, and we had elders always in this space. And the elders have special roles in this space.

Elizabeth:

And I call them superpowers because I’ve been in such a space and we could be discussing, I don’t know, the ingredients for making a meal with my grandma and straight from the ingredients she would immediately pick the most difficult challenge someone was facing, like, “Why did you drop out of school?” And you would be like, “Okay, this conversation just got complex fast.” And everybody else in this place has to figure one, “Do I need to be in this conversation? Two, if I’m in this conversation, why am I here? Is it as a listener? Is it to provide a counterpoint to whatever is going to be discussed, et cetera. And when is it my turn to speak? And when is it not my turn to speak?” But the person who actually had the power, superpower to dynamically transform that conversation was always the eldest, was always the grandparents, grandmothers, grandfathers, sometimes aunties and uncles. So there’s the space for elders and I see facilitators a lot as elders. And then how do we use those superpowers to transform those conversations in that way?

Douglas:

That’s pretty awesome. I love this idea. And it brings me back to some of my family gatherings as a child. And I remember definitely my grandmother would, without apology, would go right to the issue and sometimes catch you off guard. I feel like that was an art form. Didn’t wait for that perfect moment. It was almost like the opposite of what a perfect moment might be just because, in a way that’s the moment because you’re not expecting it and you got to be raw and you got to be real and authentic.

Elizabeth:

Mm-hmm. And it’s here and it’s like, “Okay, you can escape if you want to. You can stand up and get out of the circle, but then you’re getting out of a circle.”

Douglas:

Yeah, that’s a very obvious sign, you can’t just slip away. That’s amazing.

Elizabeth:

So in organizations, but also in cross sectoral collaboration and so on, I keep thinking, “We need this kind of spaces and we need more elders and we need more people who can put it on the spot and get people to be authentic in the conversation and to address the issue that’s on the table. Sometimes to bring the hidden cards onto the table.” You have this conversation, people are like, “This is driven by interest in values.” And you’re like, “Okay, wait, let’s put the interests and values on the table.” And then it becomes interesting because some people don’t want to show their interest or show their values.

Douglas:

So it’s interesting that you mentioned cross sector because I wanted to bring that up and hear a little bit about your thoughts around, what are some of the challenges or some of the considerations that you take into that work? Because I can imagine there’s some unique needs when you bring together cross sector groups, or are you just doing work that’s at that intersection?

Elizabeth:

So one of the big things about cross-sectoral work is that it usually doesn’t happen because the parties want to work together, it happens because they find themselves in a circumstance that forces them to work together. So, say for example, we have a large water resource and it’s sitting in a certain community. Then you find that the community representatives, et cetera, who you would put in civil society who have the interests of what the community wants to do with that resource, but then you find maybe you have a public sector agency that wants to do, I don’t know, hydroelectric power out of the same resource, and maybe another one that wants to do irrigation. And this has happened in my country out of the same resource. And then you find that you have some private sector interests that maybe want to, I don’t know, bottling plants that want to do soft drinks or something, and it’s the same resource.

Elizabeth:

And so of necessity, now we must sit around the table and talk to each other. And the biggest thing I have found across all those conversations is, first of all, we’re here, not because we chose to be here, but because we must be here. And second of all, we don’t trust each other. So if you talk to the public sector, they’ll tell you a lot of things about the private sector being fragmented. They’ll tell you a lot of things about the private sector being driven by greed, a lot of things about the private sector having profits as their main interest and that not being a good thing. If you talk to the civil society, which kind of represents the people, then again, there’ll be a lot of conversation about private sector greed, private sector profit maximization, which is not a good thing and not of interest in this conversation and so on.

Elizabeth:

But there’ll also be issues around state control, around privacy and protection of rights, especially in relationships with the state. And then when you go to the private sector, again, they will have the issues around state control, privacy, and protection around the state, but they will have other issues which are around waste, corruption, et cetera, that they bring to the table in relation to government. So the trust is almost, many times at the beginning, at zero. And then you’ve got to fudge it together, patch it together, make a quilt, right?

Douglas:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Bring different things together and sew it together. And this takes time. It requires time. But as I said, then it also requires elders and authentic conversations. People who can find a way to get some honest truths on the table. But it’s not just elders roles that are there, there are other roles. I was in a conversation with some friends of mine, they said, “Sometimes you have to be the hotelier, the host. All you’re doing is providing the space and the food and making sure everyone’s comfortable. Sometimes you have to be the postman, taking messages between one group and another behind the scenes and making sure things work.’ So there are different roles that need to be played, but they need to happen for this to take place successfully. So it’s a lot of work, it’s not easy.

Douglas:

What do you think is the first starting point to building those relationships and helping people get to that understanding so they can have those deeper conversations? What are some of your early moves to start sowing the seeds to stitch those things together?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, as I said, a lot of my conversations with my friends we found out that the work we do behind the scenes as postman, just having conversations one-on-one with Douglas and then, okay, have another one-on-one conversation with someone else. And you’re taking the message from Douglas to this person, bringing the message from that person to that Douglas, so that by the time we sit around the table, they’re not so shocked when this comes out from the other person, but they also maybe have warmed up to it and are ready to have the conversation. So don’t go into the round table quilt without the one-on-one conversations before, and without the shuttle services before, having conversations with the other people. The other thing I found a lot that works is yes, the hospitality, it matters. Where are we? How do people feel? Are they comfortable? Is it a safe space in that sense, physically, emotionally?

Elizabeth:

So one of the big things actually with digital conversations then has been, is this a safe digital way? Nobody’s going to hack into it? Issue number one. Issue number two, nobody’s going to record it and start distributing the recording without my permission? Because if we’re going to have an authentic conversation, then I don’t really want it being played out on somebody’s social media accounts. So what’s a safe digital space versus what’s not a safe digital space, has been a big conversation. And then translation. A lot of things get lost in translation. You and I both speak English, but it’s not the same English. And it’s marked when you’re in a room with different countries, but sometimes it’s also marked when you’re in a room with different sectors. So impact for a business person, a private sector person is not the same as impact for a government employee, is not the same as impact for a civil society.

Elizabeth:

So in a conversation, you will have this thing and everyone says, “We want to have impact.” And if you don’t unpack what impact is, you’re going to leave that room with three different understandings of impact.

Douglas:

Yeah. I’ve tun into that all the time. People will use jargon. They’ll shorten language and metaphor, or they’ll use maybe trite language. Impact, I would say, is a very overused word. And so even in our company where everyone understands each other and where we’re going and they’re working a lot together, if someone says something like impact, there’s a high chance that there’s a lot of different interpretations of what that might mean. That unpacking is so critical.

Elizabeth:

So those would be my tips and thoughts around, how do you get this started? And then try and go for the easier things to achieve , succeed at those, and then people, over time, relationships build, successes build, and people are a bit more confident and are willing to take bigger risks, but don’t get, any way mostly, you will never get them to take a big risk at the beginning. Everybody will stay out. You can already tell when it’s not going to work because it’s too big a risk was everybody’s like, “I can’t do that.”

Douglas:

Awesome, incredible. Well, I think that actually brings us to a good stopping point. It has been great chatting with you today about, not only cross sector and how to approach some of these kind of groups where they might not fully understand each other and the stitching some of that together through hospitality and just common understanding and the mental health experiential methods, and even just how the background in architecture has influenced your style. So that’s all been really fascinating to chat. It’s been great having you. I want to give you just a moment to share a final thought with our listeners. Anything you want to leave them with?

Elizabeth:

Yes. One thing I always tell people is, cross-sectoral, and not just cross-sectoral, collaboration is not a default thing, and it’s not always the solution. And I know this is counter intuitive because I am a facilitator and so I should be saying, this is the thing. No, collaboration is not the default thing and not the only way to do this. And there are situations when it’s not the thing to do. And so don’t beat yourself up if you don’t have a collaborative solution all the time. And especially because it takes a lot of time and energy and investment to do collaborative stuff, you really have to know when do you need it. And sometimes you just don’t need it. If there’s a fire and I need to get you out of the house as quickly as possible, it’s no longer about getting consensus and buy in. It’s, “Can we get out now?” So you need to know when it’s useful and when, okay in this situation, something else needs to be done and not necessarily this intervention.

Douglas:

Excellent. Well, again, it’s been a super pleasure having you today, Elizabeth, thanks for joining the show.

Elizabeth:

Thanks, Douglas.

Douglas:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of Control The Room. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released. If you want more, head over to our blog, where I post weekly articles and resources about working better together, voltagecontrol.com.

The post Episode 50: An Empathetic Leader Builds Better Organizations appeared first on Voltage Control.

Inclusivity has become a cornerstone in the conversations among leaders, HR professionals, culture evangelists, and at some of the best companies, it’s on the minds of all workers. It’s not surprising that we’ve arrived here. What’s shocking is how long it’s taken us to do so. Making diversity a priority in the workplace is the right thing to do and the human thing to do. It is critical to have diversity in the workplace for copious reasons–an increase in productivity, creativity, engagement, retention, employee satisfaction, and ultimately profits. But it also makes the workplace more fun. When people are happy and see others happy, they stick around. They give their best. They enjoy the workplace and it shows in the work they do.

Diversity only works if we include everyone and make them feel safe and nurture a sense of belonging. However, have you thought about what it means to be “too inclusive” or overly concerned with who you include? This may seem counterintuitive, but sometimes in certain scenarios focusing too much on who you should include in meetings and conversations can actually distract you from your purpose or even force you to compromise your values. 

I believe it is important to be more intentional and purposeful with our inclusion. In other words, it’s ok to be exclusive by design by honing in on your purpose and making conscious decisions that support it. Here’s an example: If you are gathering a group together for data science, then you should exclude non-data scientists. If you are having a meeting about leadership duties, it is unnecessary to include everyone in the company. In this sense, outside parties can be an unnecessary distraction; inviting relevant people to partake in the conversation would help you stay focused on your goal. Exclusion in this way can keep the group concentrated and also saves people who do not need to be involved in time and effort. No one likes to sit in a meeting that they don’t need to be in. And it takes up time to explain information and context to people who are outside of the conversation. Only invite people you need to meetings. 

With this being said, it’s always important and essential to consider all sides of a situation and all voices in a conversation, even the ones not speaking. Exploring perspectives feeds your purpose and is a strength in understanding. Yes, there can be a benefit in only engaging with like-minded people when necessary, but it is just as important to explore the thoughts and feelings of contrasting viewpoints. There is a time and place for inviting outside voices into the conversation. When you need to get work done in a meeting, it can be more effective to leave them out. 

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Consider exclusion by design when over-indexing on inclusion becomes an expense of your purpose, and therefore is unproductive. Exclusion in and of itself is not necessarily bad. In fact, it may allow us to more deeply honor our purpose. If we are honest about our purpose and it is not hateful or discriminatory in nature, then exclusion is a design consideration to ensure we are staying true to our purpose. It can also be generous when we stop inviting unnecessary people and we free up their calendar. Our clarity in purpose paired with intentionally inviting the right people reduces FOMO because people understand they don’t need to be there.

Often people lose sight of who needs to attend meetings, who will benefit most, and who would contribute most. Instead, they invite everyone just to be safe or just to feel inclusive. A more intentional approach will better serve you and your fellow participants, even those you decide not to invite as it might have been a waste of their time, or even worse, their presence would have wasted everyone’s time. 

While over-including is an issue and intentional exclusion can be judged too harshly, a more insidious phenomenon is accidental exclusion. Accidental exclusion is when we don’t bother to even consider who we are excluding because we’ve fallen prey to habits or simply didn’t take the time to prep or consider. It’s important to take a moment to step back and articulate your purpose, outcomes, and who should and shouldn’t be present. Who are you missing? Who can help move this project forward? Who is impacted? Who needs to be consulted? 

These questions are imperative to consider if you want to avoid accidental exclusion–it’s a treacherous and pernicious blindfold to wear. When we don’t notice accidental exclusion or see it, then we feed into it. Accidental exclusion can lead to a sense of isolation amongst your team members. When people don’t feel seen or heard, their performance and quality of life does not reach their full potential. Individuals are also faced with unfairness and unreasonable expectations when a decision falls in their lap that they had no say in but have to support. Accidental exclusion is damaging to every single person in an organization. Avoid it at all costs.

Navigating between intentional and purposeful inclusion and exclusion may seem daunting at first, but it is an applicable and effective approach to more productive and effective work. There is no single right answer or way to do it; it’s an ever-adapting and changing dynamic. Just remember: exclusion can be beneficial when we approach it with eyes wide open–there is a strategy in only inviting relevant voices to a conversation. Be careful of accidental exclusion. Lacking consideration of other people is problematic because it feeds an uninclusive environment. 

The post Exclusive by Design or Accidental Exclusion? appeared first on Voltage Control.

Welcome to Magical Meetings Stories, a series where I chat with professional facilitators, meeting practitioners, leaders, and CEOs across industries about their meeting culture. We dive deep into a specific magical meeting they’ve run, including their approach to facilitation design, and their tips and tricks for running meetings people thrive in. 

Today’s story is with Justin Foster, co-founder (along with Emily Soccorsy) of the intrinsic branding firm Root + River, and BeMa, a community of ethical branders and marketers. He is also a speaker, writer, mentor, and a curator of conversations, coffee and Texas music. Justin has coached leaders of every sector and industry to go inward, embrace the mystery and show the world who they truly are. His journey began on a cattle ranch in eastern Oregon and led him to all 50 states and 6 countries, where he’s helped people along the way. 

I spoke with Justin Foster about a monthly meeting he designed called Challenge Circle, what prompted him to come up with it, what it helps accomplish, and the future opportunities he sees for it.

“I believe when you show someone their soul, you set them free.” -Justin Foster

The Power of the Group

Justin came up with the Challenge Circle meeting idea while launching BeMa (short for Being Marketers). He explained that marketing and branding is bifurcated between systems and tactics on one side, and strategy and humanity on the other. Justin identified a need in the marketplace for a real community for marketing leaders. Challenge Circle was designed to provide a resource for like-minded rebellious and original-thinking marketing leaders that didn’t focus on the systems and tactics side of things, but more on humanity. 

Challenge Circle is Justin and Emily’s version of a mastermind group – members bring issues they’re having with the human side of branding and marketing, and the idea is that the collective intelligence of the room will come up with a solution. Justin and Emily provide recommendations but it’s more about the power of the group:

“I would put this on the positive side of groupthink, and what I call group consciousness – this idea that our problems feel really special and unique to us, but they’re usually not.” -Justin Foster

The purpose is to create more momentum and traction in branding and marketing efforts. Branding/marketing can feel so overwhelming, Justin explains, because there’s so much to do and not everyone can afford to have a team do it for them. Therefore, the mind begins to shut down and prioritize primarily off of impulse, rather than intuition or strategy. “Everybody’s trying to take care of the marketing, but what about the marketer? What about the human? Here’s what we know: If you’re burnout, tired, fatigued, overwhelmed, you make poor decisions. It’s just human nature. Like I said, you become impulsive, and you become short-term, and you become desperate sometimes, because you’re tired. So when we think about a community, it truly is a community to provide spiritual and emotional support to the humans that are doing the marketing.”

Challenge Circles are able to get people helping one another, working together and participating, either by sharing their challenge that they would like help with, or helping someone else with their challenge and learning from that.

Let’s dive into Justin’s process to see what makes these meetings magical.

The Meeting 

Pre-Meeting Prep and Intro

Participants receive some contemplative prompts prior to the Challenge Circle, where Justin and Emily ask questions such as “What have you attempted, and why didn’t it work?” This gets them thinking in preparation to address and work through their challenges in the Challenge Circle. 

Then, they always start each Challenge Circle with what Justin calls “a two-word check-in.” They ask the participants “What are you feeling right now?” Sometimes they do an intention, but generally the two-word check-in gets the meeting going.

Exercise

The meetings, held Thursdays at 1PM CT for an hour, range from 8-20+ people, and Justin and Emily aim for 2-3 challenges per Challenge Circle. Everyone is encouraged to be ready to share a challenge that they’re having. The decision process of which challenges to tackle during the Challenge Circle is not democratized – participants submit a few and then Justin and Emily (acting as co-facilitators) discuss and decide which ones to tackle, live in front of the group. The goal is to see how many challenges can be addressed in that hour. 

Challenge Circles go off of the belief that there are a lot of universal problems and challenges that people face (regardless of industry), and the intention behind these meetings is that once people realize they can come together and have a vigorous conversation about a challenge, it becomes much more doable. “There’s a lot more hope and a lot more enthusiasm for the possibility that it doesn’t have to be this way,” Justin says.

I asked Justin when a challenge is considered complete. He said it’s complete when there is the idea of what he calls “make it real.” “Make it real” means that the person that submitted the challenge feels satisfied, with a solution that they can go implement. The second indicator of a challenge being complete is that everyone has spent all of the conscious ideas in the room. “We don’t want to belabor it, and we’re not trying to glean every little detail. We’re trying to get to the nuggets that can be applied immediately.”

Finally, the meeting ends with a two-word check-out of how each person is feeling–similar to the way it started, with a two word check-in. “What we’re trying to do here is change people’s perspective, and the way that we know our perspective has changed is the shift in emotion. That’s why we ask a two-word check-in, two-word check-out, around what you’re feeling. If someone comes in, they’re like, ‘I’m frustrated, and I’m impatient.’ And they checkout with, ‘I feel motivated, and grateful.’ That’s progress to us.”

What Makes It Different

Unlike other meetings where an email with notes or next steps is the follow-up deliverable, Challenge Circles have a guide in the form of a graphic recording of the solution. Justin explains that as ideas start to flow from participants, patterns and principles begin to emerge. Emily creates a graphic recording of the solution that the group comes up with, and that becomes the output that can be used as a guide. Each guide is unique per challenge.

Ground Rules 

I asked Justin about any rules or protocols he had in mind when coming up with the Challenge Circle meeting idea. He cited vulnerability and being willing to be challenged. “If you have some fragility, the Challenge Circle really isn’t for you. If you don’t like feedback or you’re really sensitive, or easily offended. So you got to be willing, you’ve got to have this willingness to be challenged.”

One operational rule is that everyone speaks first before anyone else speaks twice, when discussing feedback after challenges are shared. This encourages those who may be more introverted or hesitant to speak up immediately to contribute, and helps encourage those that may typically dominate meetings to also listen. 

Facilitation Design Approach

Justin and I also discussed his process for designing this meeting. He highlighted three key elements, which also relate to his overall approach to facilitation and coaching:

• It’s an inquiry practice; it’s the use of lots of questions. “Everything is designed not that we would have answers, but that we would have questions that would prompt answers from other people.”
• It’s a contemplative practice. “Meaning, we operate from the assumption that the answer is already inside of you, and it’s just your busy-ness and overwhelm that you can’t see it. That’s this idea of contemplative-ness, of going inward.”
• Make it real. “What are the next two or three things you are going to do, now that you know what the solution is?”

Another critical aspect of the Challenge Circle meetings includes flexibility/fluidity. As discussed earlier, the goal is to get through at least 2-3 challenges but if somebody has a challenge that takes a little muscularity to get behind it, the group will take more time to brainstorm and not rush through it. “This is the key thing for us, we allow room for intuition.”

Looking Ahead

I asked Justin what he sees as future opportunities for the Challenge Circle meetings. He has a lot of ideas in mind.

• Corporate teams – a Challenge Circle cohort where everyone is on the same team within the same company
• Topical challenges – bring on experts from a specific area of expertise, or focus challenges around a specific topic (for example, marketing technology)
• Early launch stage of a business – such as a venture fund, incubator, or community
• Social good brands, especially since BeMa focuses on humanity and ethics – for example, B Corps, nonprofits, and socially responsible brands like KIND Bar or Patagonia

Tools

There are a few tools Justin uses to create magic and connection in his meetings:

• Infusionsoft (now called Keap)-tool for CRM, sales, and marketing
• Mighty Networks-online community-building platform
• Zoom-fosters connection using conversation, chats, and breakout sessions
• Notability-visual note taking app used to document and create the graphic solution during the meeting
• iPad Pro-used to screen share visuals from Notability via AirPlay to the Zoom participants

Value Mindset

Through Challenge Circles, Justin is able to bring much-needed insight to his BeMa community, because the meetings actually work. His approach as a facilitator is to bring people together as a group and provide participants real value. “This model of collective consciousness of the room, and this awareness that we marketers all sort of have the same set of problems, really has an efficacy to it. And that’s great. I mean, we would never want anyone to spend time or treasure on something that did not bring them relief or value or insight.”

The post Challenge Circles appeared first on Voltage Control.

A return to work is around the corner, but what will that look like? For many businesses, that will not mean “business as usual”. The adjustment to remote work has many people considering a hybrid workplace. However, hybrid work has become a blanket term used to meekly describe the dynamic that the future of work suggests. Hybridity in the workplace is much more than the location and time we work; it’s not that simple. The merging of in-person and virtual work will mean the emergence of completely new a paradigm for all workers. Just like we had to shift to different processes and systems for remote work in the virtual landscape, we must consider the full picture of what hybrid roles and hybrid workers will look like in order to be successful in a new kind of work environment.

First of all, returning to work in person is a question of who is comfortable doing so. While some people are eager to be back in a collaborative office space, others aren’t so ready for various reasons–be it health concerns, a preference for remote work, or a resistance to getting back into an in-person work routine. Make no mistake, getting back together face-to-face is going to be a transition. It won’t immediately revert back to how it used to be because too much has happened since then. We’ll have to readjust our schedules–like organizing care for kids and adding a commuting routine back in–and get reacquainted with social norms and behaviors that come with an in-person work environment. From seemingly little things like questioning, “Do I shake my co-workers’ hands?” to larger concerns about whether employees will start back full or part-time, returning to work will mean ironing out kinks and getting readjusted. You’ll also need to consider the configuration for your hybrid environment–will there be multiple offices? What does hybrid mean to your organization–does it mean Mondays and Fridays in the office and every other day remote? This transition will take time. 

As employees begin to reestablish patterns and norms, they will be faced with new and potentially unexpected thoughts and feelings. They may find this process difficult and unsettling. Make sure to listen to their needs and give them time to adapt. While many may be excited to rush back, we’ll need to support those that need more time. We also don’t want to rush into hasty decisions that don’t sere our long-term needs and unnecessarily alienate team members.

It is our responsibility as leaders to establish clear expectations and “new norms” while also holding space for team members’ needs so that everyone can transition as painlessly as possible. 

I was recently chatting with some of the facilitators in our community and they declared that there is no such thing as a hybrid workshop. Their point was that if you are seeking full and equal participation from everyone we need to ensure that the interface for everyone’s ideas has consistent and equal bandwidth. In order to do that, all of your in-person attendees need to join the virtual session individually, making them all virtual participants as well. 

There is currently no software specifically made for hybrid work; software that exists assumes for remote work. We will need tools and processes that not only seamlessly support the merging of productive in-person and virtual work, but that also make connection a priority. Perhaps the greatest challenge for remote teams is genuine connection. It’s the essential missing element of in-person connection that cannot be replaced by technology–no matter how innovative. There is no substitute for human interaction. That’s why many businesses are prioritizing physical togetherness for their employees even if they have the choice to remain fully remote. The value for connection–however you create and maintain it–is paramount to do meaningful work together. 

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The word of hybrid also ushers in new concerns around co-location and who is actually in the room. Many workers have relocated during the pandemic and may no longer be near an office. What are the lines of collaboration that have been severed locally? Co-location will impact our design choices and skew our perspective. For example: When designing hybrid meetings, workshops, and other gatherings, there will be a natural pull to group co-located individuals during breakout sessions. While this may work out sometimes, we certainly shouldn’t take it for granted.

Do you see room for hybrid work within your organization? If so, how are you preparing for the shift in the workplace? If you decide to support a hybrid workplace, how will meetings work with some team members in a physical room and others dialing in virtually? What will you need to do to encourage equal connection amongst dispersed and in-person team members? How will hybrid work change talent acquisition? Will in-person team members have advantages or disadvantages that virtual workers won’t and visa versa? What technology needs to exist to fully support an effective hybrid work environment? The intricacies of a hybrid workplace are vast, but it’s a puzzle that can create a full, functional picture. 

If you are considering a hybrid work environment, keep this in mind: at the center of productive work is the people who make it happen. Keenly focusing on your team members and what they need to thrive is essential, especially in a hybrid environment. There is definitely no one-size-fits-all approach to getting the best performance from individuals and creating the best experience for them to succeed in. Learn your team members’ strengths and create opportunities for them to utilize them. One person may work best in person, while others may soar when they’re able to buckle down and hone in on their duties alone in their chosen workspace. It may seem like a game of Tetris at first, but leaning into the specific needs and preferences of your team, paralleled with how everyone can work best together, will create the most effective and inspiring work environment for all. 

It’s important to remember that we are entering a new age of experimentation. While it may seem familiar, this is new territory, so everyone will have a different perspective and approach. We must find what works best for our teams while also merging with the methods and preferences of other companies and people we work with. For example, I’ve recently been asked to facilitate a session where I’m remote and everyone else is in person. Each experience we have in the hybrid workspace will be a prototype to help us build new and innovative ways of collaborating. 

This transition will be interesting and we’ll all have to decide for ourselves and for the betterment of our teams which approaches, systems, and processes create the most advantageous results. Stay curious and stay safe.

The post Exploring Hybrid Work Connection appeared first on Voltage Control.

“I think there’s a real power in a community and having a community of diverse backgrounds.  I feel our unique position with the Facilitation Lab gives facilitators the opportunity to not only practice in a safe and inclusive environment with other facilitators of different backgrounds, but also that there aren’t a lot of unique spaces for and by facilitators to openly do just that.” -Kierra Johnson

Kierra Johnson is the Community Manager at Voltage Control and host of our weekly Control Room Facilitation Lab where she focuses on nurturing a network of facilitators. The Lab is a community space for facilitators to connect, ideate, and troubleshoot methods and activities in a virtual forum to gain real-time learning and feedback. Kierra connects hundreds of facilitators from around the world with a passion for practice and continuous growth in facilitation. 

In this episode of Control the Room, Kierra and I discuss the power of positivity, the Facilitation Lab’s impact, and how facilitators are connecting beyond the Lab. Listen in to hear how Facilitation Lab supports the needs of facilitators and the significance of experimentation.

Show Highlights

[00:54] Kierra’s Beginnings in Facilitation
[02:17] The Power of Positivity
[07:15] Core of Community: Inclusion & Diversity
[13:33] The Layers of Facilitation Lab
[24:36] Lab Moments: Magical Guests Memory Lane 
[30:02] Connecting & Learning Beyond the Lab
[35:54] Kierra’s Final Thoughts

Links | Resources

Facilitation Lab Slack Channel
Facilitation Lab Sign Up
Kierra’s LinkedIn

About the Guest

Kierra Johnson is the Community Manager and lead host of the Facilitation Lab weekly sessions for a one-of-a-kind community of facilitators. Kierra’s passion for community and bringing people together through the Facilitation Lab encourages long-lasting relationships alongside facilitators in the unique, virtual forum to lean into curiosity, ideation, and discovery in facilitation. Kierra’s unwavering positive spirit combined with her inclusive perspective lifts the community of facilitators across all backgrounds, to reveal the significance of experimentation in methodologies and activities of facilitation. By engaging our community with a space built uniquely for and by facilitators, she’s made it her mission to lean into discovery and innovation alongside facilitators across the world in the Lab. 

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a change agency that helps enterprises sustain innovation and teams work better together with custom-designed meetings and workshops, both in-person and virtual. Our master facilitators offer trusted guidance and custom coaching to companies who want to transform ineffective meetings, reignite stalled projects, and cut through assumptions. Based in Austin, Voltage Control designs and leads public and private workshops that range from small meetings to large conference-style gatherings.

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Full Transcript

Douglas:

Welcome to the Control The Room Podcast, a series devoted to the exploration of meeting culture and uncovering cures for the common meeting. Some meetings have tight control and others are loose. To control the room means achieving outcomes while striking a balance between imposing and removing structure, asserting and distributing power, leaning in and leaning out, all in the service of having a truly magical meeting.

Douglas:

Today, I’m with Kierra Johnson, the community manager at Voltage Control, where she leads and nurtures Control The Room, the facilitation community. Welcome to the show, Kierra.

Kierra:

Thank you so much for having me, Douglas. Thrilled to be here.

Douglas:

It’s great to have you.

Douglas:

So I thought we could start off by talking a little bit about how you found your way into this world of facilitation.

Kierra:

You know, my path to facilitation was a bit of a journey actually. I didn’t fall into facilitation right away. One of my values in everything I do is remaining true to yourself in authenticity, and I’ve always had a unique passion for authentic people and communities since I was very young. I believe there’s so much worth in bringing people together through collaboration, and there was such a unique opportunity that I wasn’t aware of through facilitation.

Kierra:

I’m a Southern girl, born and raised from Southern Louisiana, and I’ve completed my bachelor’s in communications and public relations at LSU. And my previous career was solely focused on making my mark within the community relations and customer service industry, but at the root of everything, my passion has and always will be building long lasting relationships through community, and the facilitation industry provided a unique opportunity for me to do just that.

Douglas:

You know, there’s something that I think it’s important to point out. It’s this positivity that I think just follows you around, that you exude positivity. I see it in all the stuff you do with the community, I see it in all of our interactions with the team and team meetings. And I want to just hear a little bit about, where did that come from? How did that become such an important part of your ethos?

Kierra:

Well, I think, for me, it’s all about amazing, incredible women that have been behind me and kind of shown me the way as I’ve grown up to be a young woman. And that falls back on my mom and my grandmother. They are two huge inspirations for me that have always instilled in me to remain positive through everything that you do and that it has a direct reflection and impact on people that you come across throughout your everyday life and experiences. So that’s something that’s always stuck with me and something that I’ve just lived by, you know, to exemplify hopefully. And it keeps me going, every single day, to have that positivity and to remain excited and hopeful for what’s to come, no matter what.

Douglas:

You know, that reminds me of the Culturati conference, when Mark from SailPoint was talking about how crises doesn’t make culture, it reveals it. It kind of reminds me of what you were just saying, because in those moments, adversity or whatever’s kind of coming at you, how we respond really defines us.

Kierra:

I completely agree with you. I think every challenge that we face, I feel like there’s an opportunity to find something positive in anything that we experience. And I think it’s important to take that with you and learn from it. So I one thousand percent resonates with me, and I’m thankful for the brilliant minds through Culturati that shared such incredible insights on what they’re doing to impact their communities and companies.

Douglas:

Yeah, no, I was really jealous because you were running our booth and there to help folks that were stopping in to learn about Voltage Control, as well as helping out with the Mural template we were running for the conference, and I was a little jealous because I had all this client work and things I had to go to attend to so I couldn’t listen to all the talks. And I was like, “Man, Kierra is getting a front row seat to all that awesome Culturati stuff.”

Kierra:

I was. I was. I was fortunate enough to be a fly on the wall of some incredible minds that shared their own experiences and insights as to how we can constantly improve our culture within our companies. And they had such inspiring experiences and perspectives on what they’re doing in their respective fields to pave the way and to continue that conversation forward. And it was just an unforgettable, rewarding experience, and just little nuggets of wisdom that I know I’m going to take with me throughout my role through facilitation lab and hopefully beyond. So definitely grateful to be a part of it.

Douglas:

You know, one big takeaway for me was this notion of systems and just the important role that systems play and how, if we want to enact change, we really need to look at the systems and think about the systems that are already in place and the ones that we might want to put in place. And it really spoke to me in a big way. I was really happy to hear that there was that thread there because, you know, that’s core to facilitation and the work we’re doing, because in facilitation, we can start to ask those curious questions and have dialogues around the systems that are in place and where things might go. And of course, we do a lot of work with meeting systems. So anyway, I remember hearing all of that and thinking, “Wow, it’s so great to see everyone moving in the right direction.”

Douglas:

So it makes me curious now. When did you notice? I was noticing the system stuff, and I’m kind of curious, anything surface up for you that you think is relevant for the facilitation community or just companies in general?

Kierra:

Well, I think, for me, something that really spoke to me was an emphasis on diversity and how that can be such a strength through communities and through companies to highlight what makes us different. And I think that speaks directly to our facilitation lab, with that experience of an opportunity of building that inclusion throughout our lab.

Kierra:

You know, I believe we’re champions for people across all industries, across all backgrounds to come to our lab and provide activities and methods that they’re currently working on. But we want people with all different perspectives to feel like they’re welcome to our community, to be able to openly practice and do just that in a safe space. So with that diversity, I feel it’s our mission to always remain inclusive at the facilitation lab.

Douglas:

Yeah, I know. We were just recording a little promo video for the community, and in it, I talk about how diversity is at the core of the community, because we created it out of an observation that so much about … You know, it’s interesting; facilitation is about inclusion, and we often talk about creating space. So there’s a deep respect about inclusion and understanding the need for diversity. And almost every facilitation discipline encourages bringing cross-functional teams together because nobody’s as smart as everybody and all these things.

Douglas:

Yet at the level of methodology, it’s very siloed. There’s not much diversity when you look at your average facilitator. They’re very focused on one methodology. And so the community at the core was seeking to cross pollinate and bust those silos.

Kierra:

Yes. I think there’s a real power in community and having a community of diverse backgrounds. And I feel our unique position with the facilitation lab gives facilitators the opportunity to not only practice in a safe and inclusive environment with other facilitators of different backgrounds, but also that there aren’t a lot of unique spaces for and by facilitators to openly do just that. So I think we’re in a really incredible position to allow facilitators to connect virtually with facilitators from all around the world and have the opportunity to unpack and to connect in more unique ways than ever before.

Douglas:

Yeah. You brought up an interesting point around the global nature of the community now, and it’s interesting how difficult and challenging the pandemic’s been; to have to reinvent our businesses, to think about supporting people in the virtual world. It’s just been really challenging, but perhaps one of the silver linings of it all is that we’ve now connected globally with our facilitation peers and the community has grown in ways that I would never have expected, because we had our monthly meetup, which was mostly folks from Austin, and then we had our yearly summit, which we had people coming internationally, but now every week, we’re doing facilitation lab and it’s people from all over the world.

Kierra:

Yes. It’s pretty exciting that through the pandemic … Of course, it’s been challenging for everyone to be able to adjust and pivot to this new normal that we’re kind of learning as we go, but with the unique opportunity with our virtual meetups every week, we’re able to connect with so many people that we wouldn’t cross paths with in our everyday life had the pandemic not happened. And I think it’s a real advantage for us to make those connections to contacts from voices in London, voices in South Africa. And this is just speaking to a few people that I’ve had the pleasure of connecting with in our facilitation lab. It’s such an amazing experience to be able to connect with people that you’d never have the opportunity to in a normal setting. It’s a real silver lining, as you said, to have the space to do so and connect with people from all across the map, which is so cool to be able to do.

Douglas:

I agree. I love popping into facilitation lab. I can’t make it to all of them like I used to, but when I do pop in, seeing folks from Kenya, folks from Paris-

Kierra:

Paris. Yes.

Douglas:

… Folks from Thailand, Australia. Some of these people are logging in and it’s like 4:00 AM their time. Someone just emailed me, she’s joining from New Zealand, tomorrow, actually, and Hawaii. They all bring different perspectives on what facilitation is and they have different thoughts around how they approach things, and it’s really fantastic to see everyone kind of coming together through this common goal and understanding.

Douglas:

So I’m curious what you’ve noticed through all this cross-pollination and folks showing up with different needs and different curiosities. Can you speak to what’s common across all of it? What are they all interested in? What value do they all share?

Kierra:

I think at the root of everything, people are just longing for a sense of community more than ever now, especially through the pandemic. And with our unique position at the facilitation lab, we’re allowing facilitators of backgrounds of all industries to be able to connect freely and safely in a virtual space where they can come together, you know, experiment, brainstorm together, figure out what works, what doesn’t work, and have the space to be able to connect openly, to come together and really just connect on a deeper level.

Kierra:

And I think too, as far as concerns, there’s a real need now to figure out, how do we move forward post-pandemic? There’s been a conversation of hybrid meetings that has come up and has been a theme across a few lab sessions that we’ve had the opportunity to kind of unpack; you know, how do we juggle this idea of working remotely and also feeling safe to go back into an office setting and kind of merge the two ideas together?

Kierra:

So that’s been a very common idea that’s come up throughout the lab pretty often.

Douglas:

Yeah, that’s definitely on the mind for facilitators these days, right? “Will I need to start traveling again to be on site with clients, and will some of their participants be remote, and how do we support everyone?” It’s a non-trivial challenge, and I think one that I’m tracking really closely, and I’m sure we’ll talk about it more in labs to come.

Douglas:

So I want to talk a little bit about how lab works. You’re the host of the weekly facilitation lab, and you mentioned it being a safe place, and I wanted to just unpack that a little bit. What is lab? How does it work? What does it mean?

Douglas:

And I’ll just point out that, from my perspective, it’s about practice, because to master facilitation, you need to practice. And it’s really uncomfortable, really scary to try new things out when the CEO is in the room, or your boss who might be short on time and very critical on how we spend our time and how we do work. Even though they might be the best boss in the world and super kind and supportive, you just might not be fully comfortable trying something new out when there’s a lot at stake. And so, to me, it being “a safe place,” it’s a judgment-free zone. We’re all going to critique and play and experiment together.

Douglas:

But from your perspective, as the host, I’d love to hear a little bit more about how it works and how you run it. What’s at stake? What do we make possible with the lab?

Kierra:

Absolutely. You know, when it really comes down to it, our mission for the facilitation lab is that we let facilitators have the freedom to hold the mic and troubleshoot with other facilitators. And that’s really the root of why we’ve built this community. They’re able to have 40 minutes of unpacking their methods and activities in real time that they’ve been working on and putting together, to test it out with a community of like-minded facilitators to gain real-time feedback and have some key takeaways in a safe environment, to be able to present and test out those methods to do so with, as you said, a judgment-free zone, and have people really experience the method and activities that they’re working on, to fully immerse themselves in the overall experience of having the role as a host or a lead facilitator.

Kierra:

That’s really our goal, is to give them the space to be able to practice.

Douglas:

And so if I were to show up at a facilitation lab, what would I expect to see?

Kierra:

So essentially, you would expect … We always start the sessions with an icebreaker activity. That’s kind of our overall goal, just to get people in a comfortable space and setting with an open networking exercise, where we really just have everyone connect with their neighbor Zoom in the Zoom.

Kierra:

And then from there, we discuss an opportunity of why we’re here at the facilitation lab, what our mission is. And from there, we introduce our peer facilitator, or our guest host, and give them the full freedom and rights to take over the session and present their method and activity that they’ve been working on in real time.

Kierra:

And at the facilitation lab, it’s always our goal to offer them the best support that we can behind the scenes. So we’re managing and making sure that their experience is as fruitful for the facilitator, or for the audience, as best as it can be.

Kierra:

So that’s our ultimate goal, is for the actual activity as a whole to go on without a hitch.

Douglas:

So you start off with an icebreaker to lean into that connection that you spoke about. That’s so important. People really are hungry for more connection and meeting other facilitators, and creating that sense of belonging and understanding with each other. And then after that connection piece, then you’re moving into your guests, your peer facilitator, who’s going to send us through a method. And then, what is this “rose, thorn, bud” I’ve heard about? It seems like that’s something that happens at the end. What is that about?

Kierra:

Yes. Our “rose, thorn, bud” framework is the opportunity for our guest facilitators and audience to unpack their thoughts and feedback to their response on the activity that the host facilitator has engaged with their activity throughout the session.

Kierra:

So it gives the audience the space to be able to openly share how they felt about the overall exercise in a sense of roses. It’s a metaphorical framework essentially, where roses are what they really connected with and what really spoke to them throughout the session, something that they loved, that they connected with as a whole, whereas thorns are constraints or pain points that they feel that they didn’t really connect with, or there was an opportunity there that just missed the mark a little bit. And with buds, we love to leave our lead facilitators with buds, and essentially, buds are those areas of growth and areas of opportunity that can kind of just use a little bit more nurturing throughout the method, that we allow facilitators to share how they felt about that overall activity.

Douglas:

You know, I love when buds too kind of provide an opportunity for the attendees, the participants to see opportunities for them. It happens from time to time, where people in attendance say, “Oh, I see. I’m going to borrow something that I saw them do,” or, “I’m not going to do something I saw them do.” Because seeing things that you don’t want to do can be just as powerful as things that you want to do. So I love when people turn the buds on themselves.

Kierra:

Absolutely. And I think it’s a unique take, where inspiration just sparks in real time for the facilitator that’s experienced this activity or methodology that they weren’t aware of or didn’t know much about beforehand, but in reality, they’re able to sit back and kind of determine how they can take elements of the method that they’ve experienced into their own individual work and bring it to their respective industries.

Kierra:

So it’s a really unique opportunity to have inspiration for them to immerse themselves, and also figure out what works and how they can adapt and change those elements in real time to their respective places and companies.

Douglas:

Yeah.

Douglas:

So I noticed that sometimes there’s an open lab, whereas other times there’s a special guest. What happens in the open lab?

Kierra:

Open lab is one of my favorite opportunities where we can openly connect in a deeper way through the facilitation lab. And our open lab sessions happen every single month, once a month, where we have an open dialogue between all of us as facilitators to network and connect on a deeper level about topics that we’re really passionate about as facilitators.

Kierra:

That can range from hybrid meetings, inclusion and diversity in the workplace. It could be about icebreakers; how to keep people still engaged throughout your meetings.

Kierra:

We always open it up to the community to give them the opportunity of what’s top of mind for what they’d like to discuss in the session. So we always start with, “What would you like to really unpack today?” And from there, we have about an hour of uninterrupted time to really just dive into breakout rooms and unpack those thoughts and ideas that are kind of bubbling up inside of us that we want to share, and kind of bounce off ideas just to be better as a whole and how we can do better.

Douglas:

Yeah. That’s a beautiful thing. And I love the moment after facilitation lab, where we just kind of … The After Hours. I always like to tell people, when we had in-person events, we had to pull the sticky notes off the walls and clean things up and tidy up, get the tables put back. And inevitably, someone would stick around and talk and chat. And so we always still reserve that time in our workshops for, I call it the cleanup time. And we do that during facilitation lab, and that’s some of my favorite time, where people are kind of a little bit more open and loose about how they’re kind of reflecting on what happened and what’s top of mind for them. And so open lab is almost an extension of that, right? We’re just doing that for the whole time, which is a lot of fun.

Kierra:

Exactly. After Hours is also one of my favorite opportunities in the lab, because it really allows us a less … It’s a less formal setting for us to really just connect deeper with other facilitators.

Kierra:

A lot of times, I’ve noticed people stick around who aren’t privy to our community or it’s their first time joining, and they really just want to immerse themselves in the whole experience, and they want to see what After Hours is all about. And really, it’s just us connecting with, “What did you experience today? What’s your day looking like? What made you smile throughout your day to day?” And really just having the opportunity to just openly connect a little bit more. “What are you working on in your industry right now?”

Kierra:

It’s a beautiful time for us to really just delve into open conversation.

Douglas:

You know, it’s fascinating too, how sometimes the learnings and the impact is often greater than the sessions where there was specifically content that was curated and prescribed, because the serendipity of folks sharing and being curious and asking questions and just letting things surface that are top of mind … I don’t know. It’s the randomness of those collisions and those intersections that create so much value. So yeah, the open labs are really fantastic.

Kierra:

Yes. There’s always a need from our community, and I’ve heard this voiced so many times, for us to further that connection with your fellow facilitator. And I think if we have the opportunity to make that happen in tenfold, then we’re doing our part to really just continue those connections with facilitators in our industry, because it’s so important to build those connections and nurture those relationships.

Douglas:

So I want to talk a little bit about some of your memories of prior facilitation labs and some of the guests that we’ve had. What do you think of fondly when you think about past facilitation labs?

Kierra:

The beautiful thing about our facilitation lab is that we have a wide range of guest facilitators who have allowed us to experience different methodologies and activities that are really meaningful and really impactful. At the same time, they’re really vulnerable and inspirational.

Kierra:

So just one that sticks out or kind of rises to the top would be, we had the opportunity to have Keith McCandless, the incomparable Keith McCandless, founder of Liberating Structures, who brought grief walking to our session. And I believe this was back at the end of last year. It was all centered about having that experience of walking through grief and what those feelings look like and really immersing yourself and diving into those emotions and not closing the door on those thoughts or feelings, and having a support system, a safe support system, to do so. That was super, super emotional, but an incredible session that I feel was really needed at a pivotal time. So amazing to have him walk through our facilitation lab and present something so impactful to our community.

Kierra:

Another session that I can think of is Brave Legend and Megan Rose, who are relational facilitators that led us in an activity called “Honing your relating superpower and curiosity.” And that was all about really immersing yourself in what makes you curious and kind of finding and investigating what your overall superpower is as a human through facilitation.

Kierra:

Another standout facilitator that we’ve had is Sunni Brown. She’s the founder of Deep Self Design. She led an activity kind of encompassing the circle of trust, which really just uncovered what trust means to us as people and displaying the layers of trust and how it can evolve into and through our personal relationships in our lives.

Kierra:

So those are just a few that I can think of that really just speak to the wide variety of what we have in our lab for the space and for the opportunity for our facilitators and our audience to be able to connect in so many different levels and areas.

Douglas:

Yeah, it’s been really humbling to see so many great facilitators come through and connect with the community and share. The value is so immense, as a facilitator, to come in and see these excellent practitioners.

Douglas:

And also even novices. I think about my friend who is a jui-jitsu black belt, and he said he learns more from folks who show up on their first day than he does working with other black belts, because they do surprising things. They do things that are unexpected. They’re not playing by the rules because they haven’t learned the rules yet. And so when we get newbies …

Douglas:

I’ve had folks ask me, especially really advanced facilitators, they’ll say, “Why don’t you want to curate the community to be more focused on advanced facilitators?” And, well, my first response is that it’s not diverse, so our opportunities of understanding and learning are more reduced. And also, how do we groom and grow the future master facilitators if we don’t include everyone? And also, these new folks with new perspectives and new ideas will bring us shocking things.

Douglas:

And so that’s why we also not only curate people who are well-known, who’ve written books, like Liberating Structures and Gamestorming, but we also curate folks that are just getting started or just have a new, fun idea they want to try out, because there’s so much to learn from everyone. And then the more master facilitators can really enjoy giving feedback to folks that are just trying things out for the first time.

Douglas:

So I think it’s a little something for everybody.

Kierra:

Absolutely. Echoing that, I believe that our lab provides a unique opportunity for new voices and seasoned voices alike to know that they’re just as welcome to come and present something off the wall or trying something different that they wouldn’t necessarily try in their own workspaces. But they know, with us leaning into curiosity and leaning into discovery within the facilitation lab, they have the opportunity to try out different activities and methodologies that they wouldn’t really do in another setting or environment. We create a space where we don’t turn anyone away for how wacky or wild their idea is.

Douglas:

So I want to switch gears a little bit here. We talked a little bit about the weekly facilitation lab, where the community comes together once a week to explore and learn together and try things out. How else does the community gather and meet and come together?

Kierra:

So we have a really unique opportunity and space in addition to the facilitation lab, where we continue that conversation through our Slack channel. And there is a really cool opportunity for you to connect further with your peer facilitator that say you’ve sparked a connection with someone that you’ve had the experience of connecting with in lab, and you really want to network and chat further with that person in a safe forum. And through that, we continue our conversation through our general Slack channel.

Kierra:

On a weekly basis, I always conclude our facilitation labs with a facilitation lab followup post, which kind of overall recaps the session if you’re unable to make it. And there, we can openly discuss different topics of conversation on a forum like Slack; to be able to think about new ideas or questions that we may have, share resources. It’s a really cool opportunity for us to connect that much further outside of the facilitation lab.

Douglas:

And in addition to Slack, are there any other platforms that they can find us on as well?

Kierra:

Yes, we are super active on LinkedIn, as well as Twitter and Instagram. We’re definitely going to be ramping up that conversation on social as well in the weeks to come. But we’re definitely very, very active through LinkedIn as well.

Douglas:

Yeah. And the LinkedIn group and the Facebook group are great places for folks to connect and commune with other facilitators. So hope folks can join us there. It’s really great to see all the work that’s happening and the cool stuff you’re doing for the community.

Douglas:

Before we wrap up, I want to just hear a little bit about, what is the Bring A Buddy campaign?

Kierra:

I’m so glad you brought that up. It’s an opportunity for us to encourage our audience of the facilitation lab, with our peer facilitators who join in with us every week, to really call on them to invite colleagues, coworkers, neighbors to come to our facilitation lab and kind of broaden that community that much more.

Kierra:

I feel it’s only in our benefit to have people join our community with multiple backgrounds and experiences. So with that, we really want to encourage everyone to be a voice, to tell friends, if they have the time and space to do so, to come in and join our lab. We really want to increase that connection and offer that inclusivity that much more, and the only way that we can do that is by having unique voices continuously join our lab. So we always are calling on and really shouting to the rooftops about the Bring A Buddy campaign.

Douglas:

Yeah, I love that because I know that, for me personally, if I’m going to something with a friend that I already know really well, that I see at work or at church or at other gatherings and things that we do, if we’re already connecting in other places, they’re going to hold me accountable to these things I’ve learned and these buds know that I might mention during a “rose, thorn, bud.” And so it helps integrate the work and carry it forward more. So it’s not only about the community growing, but it’s also having a better experience as an individual.

Kierra:

Absolutely. There is so much richness in us providing the best experience that we can through the facilitation lab and assuring that everyone has an unforgettable experience when they join in every single session. So if we can encourage that or just make that experience that much better, then let’s do it. Let’s go for it.

Douglas:

Kierra, maybe share a little bit about what people can expect if they start to engage more; if they’re bringing a buddy often or they’re contributing to the Slack channel or the LinkedIn group and the Facebook group. I think we’re going to be recognizing folks for their efforts and contributions to community. What might they expect?

Kierra:

Yes, Douglas, you are spot on there. We’re so excited to be able to start this initiative for our community of facilitators. And through that, we are going to be implementing a token system where anytime a friend or facilitator is bringing a new face to the lab, you’re able to win tokens and redeem those tokens for special prizes and unique opportunities as far as workshops, that once you reach a certain number of tokens, you have the opportunity to win a Voltage Control t-shirt and any assortment of prizes as well.

Kierra:

So definitely, we’re thrilled to be able to offer this. And once you’ve redeemed the pinnacle of tokens, you even have the opportunity to have a one-on-one workshop with our master facilitators, and even you Douglas. So we’re excited to be able to bring this to our community and encourage new faces and new voices to come into our labs.

Douglas:

Excellent. Yeah. I’m really looking forward to that, recognizing our ambassadors and the folks that are leaning in and doing the most to support the community and earn those tokens. I can’t wait to do a one-on-one with you.

Douglas:

I guess to round things out, Kierra, I want to hear a little bit about, after attending all of these facilitation labs and seeing lots of different things and getting more and more immersed in facilitation, whether it’s one of our big events like [SOCOM 00:36:10] or with the National Science Foundation, I would say, what is your favorite facilitation tool or method out of everything you’ve seen?

Kierra:

Wow, that’s a really difficult question because there’s so many that come to mind, but I would say one that sticks out above most is really just having the opportunity to humanize and connect with facilitators as humans. I think it’s important to connect with someone on an emotional level with breaking down those barriers, and I think Authentic Relating has such a huge impact on finding that connection and honing in on seeing that person for who they are. In fact, I would recommend checking out our facilitation lab with the founder of Authentic Relating, Sara Ness. She’s remarkable.

Douglas:

So Kierra, I’m going to start wrapping up now, and I’ve got a couple of questions left for you. The first one is, what are you excited about right now?

Kierra:

Goodness. There is something about the season of spring that really just excites me with an element of rebirth and curiosity to start something new. And I think with all the exciting new voices that we have coming up in the facilitation lab leading into summer, it’s something that really excites me, and seeing all the incredible new faces and voices to our community is something that really just kind of sparks me up and gets me excited to form new connections and have the opportunity to connect that much further throughout the lab.

Douglas:

Yeah. It’s exciting to see where it’ll go. For sure.

Douglas:

So Kierra, in closing, what would you like to leave our listeners with?

Kierra:

I would just love to encourage everyone to leaning into positivity, curiosity and discovery as a whole. I think that we really speak to those values in the facilitation lab, and knowing that we have created an environment where facilitators can come together and ideate and troubleshoot in a safe community to do so, with testing out their methods and activities that they’re actively working on, we’re excited to have this unique opportunity and to continue it forward that much further.

Kierra:

And I would encourage everyone, if you haven’t had the opportunity, to attend one of our sessions. You can register for an upcoming facilitation lab at voltagecontrol.com/events, and you can also join our Facebook group and LinkedIn group to connect on those platforms. I hope to see you there.

Douglas:

Kierra, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you today. I really enjoyed having you on the show.

Kierra:

Thank you so much for having me, Douglas, and cheers.

Douglas:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of Control The Room. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released. If you want more, head over to our blog, where I post weekly articles and resources about working better together: voltagecontrol.com.

The post Episode 40: Exploring the Facilitation Lab Experience appeared first on Voltage Control.

“I think that people have been trying to facilitate these virtual meetings and they’re pretty dry in a lot of ways, but they get the point across and that’s good, but they’re finding maybe a lack of productivity that happens when people just feel like this mundane day-to-day.” -Rachael Green

Rachael Green is the CEO and Founder at Rach Green Cocktails, where she uses high level hospitality, spirits and cocktail knowledge to entertain thousands of people from around the world.

In this episode of Control the Room, Rachael and I discuss hospitality, hybrid events, and mixology. Listen in to hear how prioritizing fun and connection can usher in balance and harmony within your teams.

Show Highlights

[00:51] Rachael’s Beginnings
[13:49] Significance of Hospitality & Fulfillment vs. Security
[23:50] Formulas for Hybrid Experiences
[31:09] Actionable Steps to Creating Better Virtual Experiences
[34:51] Rachael’s Final Thoughts

Links | Resources

Rachael’s LinkedIn
Cocktails & Connections

About the Guest

Rachael Green is the founder of Rach Green Cocktails, and a master mixologist with a knack for fun. Rachael’s entrepreneurial spirit combined with her hospitable nature results in a buoyant perspective that lifts teams, individuals, and organizations out of the drudgery of the mundane. By engaging the five natural senses, she’s discovered that people can bring their full selves when given the expectation and opportunity to do so.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a change agency that helps enterprises sustain innovation and teams work better together with custom-designed meetings and workshops, both in-person and virtual. Our master facilitators offer trusted guidance and custom coaching to companies who want to transform ineffective meetings, reignite stalled projects, and cut through assumptions. Based in Austin, Voltage Control designs and leads public and private workshops that range from small meetings to large conference-style gatherings.

Subscribe to Podcast

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Voltage Control on the Web
Contact Voltage Control

Full Transcript

Douglas Ferguson:

Welcome to the Control The Room Podcast, a series devoted to the exploration of meeting culture and uncovering cures for the common meeting. Some meetings have tight control and others are loose. To control the room means achieving outcomes while striking a balance between imposing and removing structure, asserting and distributing power, leaning in and leaning out, all in the service of having a truly magical meeting. Today, I’m with Rachael Green, CEO and founder of Rach Green Cocktails, where she uses high-level hospitality, spirits, and cocktail knowledge to entertain thousands of people from around the world. Welcome to the show, Rachael.

Rachael Green:

Hey, Douglas, how’s it going? Thanks for having me.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it’s great to have you. I guess for starters, let’s just hear a little bit about how Rachael Green became Rach Green Cocktails?

Rachael Green:

Yeah. Well, man, you could say that it starts all the way back when I was a kid and I was just mixing my fruit juices, which is actually true, but it’s interesting because I was born into a family where my father has always been an entrepreneur. And so, I’ve always really idealized this as something that I wanted to do, but it really started for me, 10 years ago when I got into the hospitality industry where my “why” came from. I worked in retail for a second, and then I got into food and beverage where I was working as a cocktail waitress. And I started to see things in the food and beverage industry that I thought was just related to this one restaurant that I was working for, when in fact I realized over the years that this was a systemic kind of issue of how people were approaching hiring and treating their employees and treating their guests was so short-sighted.

So, I really wanted to learn more about hospitality. So I got my bachelor’s degree in hospitality management and administration to really understand the truth behind what hospitality really means and how to facilitate it in a way that is in fact true hospitality. And I’ve been on this journey for 10 years, finding people that I feel like are doing it really well, seeking to understand the pieces that make it run really well, and the pieces that don’t. And for 10 years, I worked with other people, for other people, all sorts of different positions all across the food and beverage from sales, bartending, restaurant management, catering, events, all sorts of different things. But something really stuck with me when I was going through college.

My last semester, I was in international wine and culture and I applied to become the head teaching assistant because I did really well. I always was really fascinated by alcohol and fermentation and the science behind it. I almost wanted to go into chemistry, but I was such a social creature that I couldn’t see myself being in a lab coat. So, I really love the scientific aspect behind growing grapes and understanding the knowledge in wine and the geography of everything. And that’s when I got my first taste of educating. And so, I kind of dabbled in that little pieces throughout the next five or six years when I got into liquor sales and I got into educating people on spirits. And then I also got an opportunity with a little shop named Collins & Coupe, they’re out of San Diego where I was based out of and they would have these cocktail classes. They would get a little permit for it and they would have cocktail classes with like 20 people.

And I was starting to facilitate once a month these in-person cocktail classes for consumers and I fell in love with it. I was like, “So, this is like the educational aspect that I really loved mixed with also the passion for what I was doing in alchemy.” So, I was able to figure out a way to do this in other ways. So, I started figuring out other ways to do these in-person cocktail classes. Now, I left California in October of 2019 and I went to North Carolina here where my family is just to kind of get grounded in a space to launch off from. And I started doing these in-person cocktail classes and they were such a blast and I was starting to get a lot of traction with them and then everything in March of 2020 went virtual. So, I didn’t look at it from the very beginning as something that was a business opportunity, right?

I went and decided to go live on Facebook to just teach people how to do cocktails because I’ve been doing it in person. And I was like, “I’m just going to come on.” And it was a total hit. People in my network really loved it. And as I started to do them more consistently on Facebook, I started to see how people wanted to become connected with something in either connected through comments with other people, connected to the story of the cocktails, connected to the fact that they themselves are able to make these amazing creations based on the ingredients that they have at home. So, once this kind of clicked for me and I started to get a lot of traction just through Facebook Live, I was like, “I wonder if I can start doing these for like personal parties” and got into the B2C sector of this a little bit.

And I started doing these and they were starting to get a little bit of traction, but not too much. And then in August of last year in 2020, I decided to venture into corporate and started to check out what corporate was looking and what team building as I started to see people really sought connection, people really sought those things that they just couldn’t have physically right now. So, when I started to see that when doing these things virtually, when done really well, you can suspend people and disbelief that they’re in fact in a virtual space with other people, but they’re in the same room with each other. So that’s something that I wanted to bring into the team building and the meeting environment. So I started to do things in the business world and it was amazing to see how these connections really started to form. But yeah, so that’s kind of where it really all stems from. And as I’ve been turning this more and more into something that not only I love, but people love too, I started to see how the connections, this is the hospitality that I was searching for.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about that pivot from B2C to B2B and specifically what were you noticing about the business world that was so receptive or what was that need that you were really kind of tapping into that they responded so much?

Rachael Green:

Yeah, absolutely. So there, I started to do a little bit of research of what the main issues were with people working remote, right? And not just for the pandemic, but in general. We’ve been moving into a direction of being working remote and people desiring to work remote, whether for travel or for flexibility. And so I was looking into the key things that people really struggled with as being employed in a remote environment. And one was the ability to turn off at the end of the day, right? Another one was feeling connected or part of a team or part of a community and there’s a few others as well, but those two really stuck out to me. And so when I started to look into that business side of things, I started to realize, “Wow, people really miss being in touch with people.” Maybe not necessarily touching them, but being in a space where they can be fully present, right?

So, when we have the access to be fully present with the people that we’re in a room with, then magic really happens. And I think that people have been trying to facilitate these virtual meetings and they’re pretty dry in a lot of ways, but they get the point across and that’s good, but they’re finding maybe a lack of productivity that happens when people just feel like this mundane day-to-day. And when they go into the office and they leave, that’s an eight-hour Workday, but when they’re working from home, it can be 11, 12-hour workdays and they don’t even realize that they’ve got up and it was dark outside and they started working and then it’s dark outside when it stops. And so I think that those things are really important to identify with.

And when you bring people in for experiences for your team, you get to give them an opportunity to just be present, to leave work aside for just a moment, maybe even incorporate their partners or their husbands or wives and do something truly together. And so, when I started to realize that there is actually proof in people being more productive once they can let loose a little bit, and it’s not like, “Oh, I’ve been working straight for 14 days,” but it really breaks the monotony. And I think that that’s the real need that I sought to fill in providing just some entertainment and some ability to be present, activating all five senses, right? You’re touching ingredients, you’re smelling ingredients, you’re tasting things, you’re building, and then you’re enjoying something that you created. So, there are other sorts of entertainment, but what I love most about what I do is that it actually activates so many of the senses, which makes it easier to be present and in the moment.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. It’s resonating with a lot of things and specifically this notion of being disconnected and this need for connection and community. And it reminds me of a BBC report that came out it’s about a year ago now or more, and the headline was Most Ineffective Meetings Are Actually a Form of Therapy. So, folks are striving or have hunger for this connection and community so much that they fill their calendars with kind of ineffective meetings. And it’s a very inefficient approach, whereas you’re bringing an intentional approach. I usually coach people on we need that, so let’s plan on it. Let’s actually honor it and be intentional so that when we come together, we make good use of that time. So I love what you’re doing from the perspective of it’s allowing people to be intentional about that time they spend focusing on connection and community.

Rachael Green:

Yeah. It’s almost like you’re creating those boundaries for them, right? So when you put their personal needs and personal lives in addition to the priorities of our business, when you prioritize them themselves, because they’re working so hard for their families and to get ahead and to really serve and to show up really well, when you’re rewarding them, you get to put that boundary in there and it’s like, “Hey, remember, you are a person too and we want to value you by giving you something to really enjoy yourself for a second.” And yeah, when you have those ineffective meetings just to fill time, yeah, I understand where that can come in too. So, by putting something intentional in there, you’re able to break that monotony. So, it’s what I’ve found to create that product to be. It’s funny how that works, right?

It’s funny how you’re like, “How can something that’s completely unrelated to business in fact help your business?” But as an entrepreneur, I’ve come to realize that days off aren’t just for me, they’re for my business. If I’m not taking days off, or if I’m not setting aside time to access those really creative sides of my brain or those connection points or those things that really bring my spirit up, then my business will suffer if I don’t do those things. So, I think that definitely works in the corporate world. And it’s such a pleasure for me to see businesses that are doing it.

I’ve become friends with, her name is Kristen, and she’s amazing. She’s the head of engagement at headquarters at LinkedIn in New York. And her main job is to set up these amazing field days and challenges and bring your parents to work day on Zoom and all of these amazing things that they initiate so that they feel seen, they feel respected and heard just as… Even though they’re part of this corporate machine, they are seen and the company desires for them to feel that sense of belonging. And I think that’s what drives loyalty in this space. So, I think that that’s really important too.

Douglas Ferguson:

It’s critical. It’s funny that so many companies have embraced design thinking and plenty haven’t, but a lot have, it’s common and so focused on customer experience. And I think they’re missing the ball on the employee experience piece. And it’s so great to hear of companies that you just mentioned, LinkedIn, and you’ve got lots of clients that are spending time thinking about these issues. And it’s just so critical to create environments where we can build friendships, we can build connection as we’re going to do much better work if we can build that trust and that sense of safety.

Rachael Green:

Yeah. I think that’s what it comes down to, hospitality comes from the core, right? You can’t deliver a good customer service if your employees don’t feel like they’re served too.

Douglas Ferguson:

Mm-hmm.

Rachael Green:

And I feel like that’s where the health of an organization really comes in and I’ve read a lot of books in hospitality and they say that labor should be your number one priority, your number one cost. Making sure that they are well-educated, that there’s team-building experiences, that they feel like they’re learning and growing. And especially a lot of these younger generations too, like for them fulfillment is prioritized over security. And I think that’s something that a lot of businesses should really remember as these younger generations start to join the workforce and especially the corporate play.

Douglas Ferguson:

So, let’s unpack that a little bit. What does that mean, fulfillment prioritized over security?

Rachael Green:

I think the desire for constant learning, growing, expanding their minds and understanding… And there’s more left-brain, right-brain people as well, but I think that there is such a drive for connection and community because technology too is such a strong piece of this that the loyalty and connections it’s different. It looks different now. So, I think what I’ve come to see and why team building and team engagement and employee engagement has become such a strong piece in the corporate structure is because people are desiring to learn more, to grow more and to become more of an expert, to have that sense of ownership in the roles that they have. So, by providing educational opportunities and opportunities to connect and become really a part of a community in a workplace, that’s becoming a really strong desire. I feel like more than just tenure.

Douglas Ferguson:

So, I’m going to bring us back to some of the stuff that you were saying a little bit earlier. And I was really intrigued by the comment around the truth behind hospitality and what does it mean to facilitate it well? You talked about facilitating hospitality and so as a community of facilitators, the truth of hospitality and facilitating it well really kind of jumped out to me.

Rachael Green:

Yeah. Love it. Love it, love it. Okay. So, let’s start from a basic, right? Let’s say you go into the Ritz-Carlton, right? And you put your name into your reservation, maybe the intention of your stay, right? Hospitality comes from anticipating needs at the bottom line. Anticipating needs and making people feel seen, or helping people to feel seen. So, in the customer experience, anticipating their needs by even having surveys to understand what their interest in working with you might be, and anticipating their potential questions that they’ll have through the customer journey and all the way down until after the experience is over, what are you doing to help them feel seen and heard? So, dialing that back to your employees and the people that work with you, how can you anticipate their needs by even giving out surveys or giving out… Applying what you’re applying to your customer journey to help that brand loyalty happen can be applied to your internal team as well.

Do you know all of the names of the people that work in your office? What are their birthdays? What are their partners’ names? What are their interests? If you prioritize making that connection happen, then that sense of comradery and that sense of productivity will build this little microcosm. So when you have this, especially if it’s productive, right? So, something that you’re facilitating and cultivating in a productive way, not just something that’s haphazard that can breed some sort of toxicity, but you’re encouraging that sense of camaraderie and community, then that sense of warmth and connection, not only to the people in their office, but the company and the brand itself, then that will trickle out as a vibe to people that they’re working with, either as partners or as customers out into the world.

So, it really comes down to the health of the organization. How can you create more health within your organization by providing an opportunity for them to connect back, for them to feel seen? And that is something that will be an example for the way that they connect with customers and they connect with potential partners and vendors, right? And when you have that good health emanating out, then those relationships with those people on the outskirts will also be benefited.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. I was thinking the same thing as you were starting to tell some of those stories and explain this, as you start to create a dynamic where those behaviors are reinforced within the organization, and then to your point, that emanates outward. And I was also thinking about this notion that the root of hospitality is to be hospitable and what a lovely thought if we create hospitable environments within the workplace and we’re supporting each other and treating… It just comes down to the ways that people like to be treated and honored and respected.

Rachael Green:

Yeah, it truly is. And it’s interesting because hospitality is such a wide net, right? You have food and beverage, you have hotels, you have movie theaters, you have events, and it’s interesting. It’s like, where do these all connect? And it comes down to people, the end consumer coming into a space to have an experience, whether it’s at an event, whether it’s at a movie theater, whether it’s at a hotel, at a restaurant. They’re going in, could they be doing these things on their own? Yes. But they’re going somewhere and they’re building a sense of loyalty based off of what they’ve received as an experience. So, it’s really important to make sure that that experience is super tied in to a brand. I don’t know, I got a little wrapped up in something.

Douglas Ferguson:

No, no, no. What that reminds me of is the late Tony Hsieh and how one of the reasons that he opened Zappos in Las Vegas was because of the strong customer service and hospitality industry in Vegas. And he was able to hire folks that really took customer care obsessively. And I think it directly impacted their ability to grow that company in the way they grew it.

Rachael Green:

Yeah. Absolutely. And here’s the thing too. It’s like when you have a lot of opportunities for the people in your organization to learn, right? To learn about shoes, to learn about how to deliver good customer service, to learn about what things mean, it builds a sense of culture, but also when you’re providing these things for your team and not just giving them, “Here’s a computer,” and go then there’s a lot less confusion too. So, you’re able to deliver better service. When you’re providing infrastructure, whether it’s in educating them or in providing an experience for them to become part of this community, you’re giving them the tools to give better service, to be that brand that people really are loyal to. So yeah, I love it.

Douglas Ferguson:

It reminds me of experiences I’ve had at really nice hotels where I walk in and they treat me like they’ve known me for years. They’re like, “Good to see you, Mr. Ferguson, thanks for joining us.” Versus an average hotel where you walk in and it’s like, “Do you have your confirmation number?” It’s like it’s so transactional in like, “Give me your thing.” It’s like it’s all just in how you approach it. It’s not likely to cost them any extra money because it’s not like they had to charge extra to behave in that way.

Rachael Green:

Right. But it comes down to what kind of support are they getting, right?

Douglas Ferguson:

Mm-hmm.

Rachael Green:

Is it just a paycheck?

Douglas Ferguson:

And encouragement.

Rachael Green:

Right. Encouragement too, but just awesome. And you brought too a really great point, right? So there is something different that they’re doing to ensure that customer experience and there’s people that follow up on that to ensure that that is followed through. Right?

Douglas Ferguson:

Absolutely.

Rachael Green:

So, in my experience in the way that I’ve grown, I have surveys when people are interested in my service, I have service surveys throughout the customer journey of like, “Okay, what do you expect? Okay, was this what you expected? Where can we improve?” And when you have these types of things in addition to that personal contact, then you have the opportunity to add in little pieces that they’re like, “Wow, they’re listening.” Like, “Great to see you, Mr. Ferguson.” Right? That’s what I’m talking about when you go into these particular experiences and you feel seen. And that hospitality, how it dials back into, how can we incorporate hospitality into our meetings? How can we incorporate hospitality into our home lives? Dial it all the way back. How can you provide that experience for your employees to emanate that type of respect and service to their selves and their families? That’s like next level, right?

Douglas Ferguson:

So I’m going to switch gears on us just kind of quickly, because I feel like there’s so much in the media right now about hybrid events. And I feel like folks like you and I who do events and create experiences for people, I think we both know that, well, we’re not doing hybrid yet. It’s on the horizon and it’s soon. And a lot of what people are talking about is like projections and whatnot. And so, I’m curious to hear what’s rattling around your head? I know you talked about this notion of cross-platform and how these different formulizations… Well, formulas will arrive as we move into this new space. So, I think the listeners are curious about this stuff and especially from a practitioner’s point of view. So I would love to hear your thoughts there.

Rachael Green:

Yeah. It’s super fun because when I first was thinking about the word hybrid and as it was first produced, I started to think about, “Well, what determines a platform?” Right? A platform is a place where people can go to to get the content that they need or the service that they need. And that is in fact delivered, right? So people will… An unpopular opinion that in-person in itself is a platform. So, when I was thinking about multi-platform events and the main difference that I have received in starting these unpopular conversations is that hybrid is a mix of in-person and virtual, versus hybrid being a mix of different online platforms. That’s a multi-platform event. But it got me thinking, I was like, “Okay, well, how is in-person if you’re looking at it from a strategic perspective and a systems perspective, they are in fact different.”

So, when you’re doing multi-platform events, you have strategies for each individual platform. And so, when we’re getting into hybrid, we’re starting to think, “Okay, well, we have a strategy for our in-person and what is our strategy for virtual? How are we going to engage them in the same way that we can engage our in-person?” Well, the reality is that you can’t, right? But it’s not that you can’t, it’s what can I do to have them feel as engaged as the in-person audience? And not only that, how can we create that bridge so that the virtual audience and the in-person audience can actually connect with each other? So you have things that I feel like are really important, and I’m going to use Clubhouse, for example.

Now, as people start to get back into in-person and are utilizing these virtual events, you can use things like networking platforms such as Clubhouse to connect both audiences, right? So even though people are doing things in person in their daily life, they’re signing onto Clubhouse to do the laundry, to do whatever, but they’re also utilizing Clubhouse as a pre-event and a post-event networking or value-add conversation. So, there are ways that I think are really important to consider and I was on a call with someone this morning about this. We think of these as different audiences, as different platforms, but how can we going forward connect the two? I went to a hybrid event last year, I was virtual and it was a chore to get people that were in-person to go downstairs, because it was at a brewery upstairs, downstairs to where the TV was with the virtual people, coming down in sections to engage with these people.

The people that are in-person, how can we encourage or really inspire them to want to connect with the people that are still virtual and obviously the people that are virtual are missing out on the opportunity of being in-person. So how can we not let them feel left behind because of things they weren’t able to get together to get to the in-person event and why should they be left behind? But it’s kind of interesting. So there are ways that I’ve seen it done really well, like gamification. So you can use gamification, whether everyone together is on a Facebook group, whether it’s in person or live and you can connect and have different calls to action and get on the leaderboards and different things of that nature.

But how can we… And this is more a question to think about as you go forward, because this is just a question that I’m posing. I don’t have the answers to, is what ways can you be drawing the people that are in person to be interacting with the people that are virtual as well? Because the beauty of virtual is that they’re tuning in from wherever, right? Global, right? Time zones don’t matter as much as long as you have it in your Google calendar. So, you have the ability to access people globally and that’s the beauty of virtual. And it is going to be interesting going back into in-person to see how these priorities and not getting caught up into like what’s so proximate. So, I think that that’s a really great question to consider when you’re thinking about going into hybrid, and you’re thinking about providing a virtual side of your in-person experience, how can you prioritize those people so that they feel connected as well?

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. I love the fact that you use the word inspire because I think so often people have the mindset of like, “How do I get these people to do this thing?” And gamification or other ways to kind of create delight and intrigue seems like the right approach and really leaning in and designing those experiences rather than saying, “Okay, we’re going to put a screen here.” I think people get so caught up in the tactics and the logistics of like, “What are the current tools allow us to do?” Rather than stepping back and thinking about, “Well, what do we want to create in the world?”

Rachael Green:

Exactly. And I think that virtual is here to stay just because over the past year, people have started to realize, “Wow, I just made a best friend in Hong Kong.”

Douglas Ferguson:

Mm-hmm.

Rachael Green:

But it opened our minds to see that we can connect with people based off of alignment versus being based off of just proximity. And for me as being someone who’s a professional now in the virtual space, it is something I will never take it for granted again, as being able to connect with people all over the country, all over the world that have similar ideals that I do and can join my my flock, my flock of birds, we’re moving in the same direction, right?

Douglas Ferguson:

Awesome.

Rachael Green:

I think it’s really fun. So yes. How can you inspire people to take action to not only connect with each other, but connect to the main mission? I think it’s really important.

Douglas Ferguson:

So I’m going to shift to closing here and before you leave the listeners with a final thought, I want to see if you could share a little bit of insight, some kind of tangible, actionable stuff that folks might do where they might draw some inspiration from some of the work you’re doing. What’s some simple stuff that teams can start to do to make their experiences more hospitable or more engaging and more tangible? Because I love this virtual mixologist stuff you’re doing. Is there anything that people can try at home before they get an opportunity to work with you?

Rachael Green:

Yeah. Well, it starts with a lemon. No, just kidding. Well, I couldn’t give you guys a little recipe, but I’ll give you this, is that no matter what it is that you’re doing, if you’re interacting with your team, if you’re interacting with the people at home, if you’re interacting with an audience, right? How can you put the medicine in the candy and the candy and the medicine. It’s a funny thought, right? When you think about that, you’re like, “Mary Poppins.” Right? But when you’re putting the medicine in the candy and the candy and the medicine, how can you, in every situation that you’re in add value and also add relatability, also add connection and sprinkle in a little fun, right? So when you’re adding the medicine to the candy for me, what I do in a virtual mixology experience, when I’m speaking with a client and for me customization and that extra personal touch is super important. I want to make sure that I’m not just coming in, teaching how to make an old fashion and sayonara, right?

For me, it’s how can I add more value to these experiential engagements, not just… Like it makes sense, it adds value in some way. It adds a takeaway. What takeaways can you add to your entertainment, your engagement, your team building? What kind of values can you be adding? So, to these fun experiences. Because it makes that connection that much greater. They’re like, “Oh yeah, that’s what you said in that meeting last week. Wow, this is how I can apply it.” Right? So on the flip side, how can you add candy to the medicine?

So, when you’re having these daily meetings at 8:30 in the morning with your team, when you are having these four-hour educational seminars, how can you add fun creativity, gamification, and a little bit of an experience to tie in to break up that potential intense amount of value? But how can you incorporate those candy elements into the value so that it’s actually relatable so that when they are using these things, they’re actually like, “Oh yeah, I remember like you have to add a little sour and a little sweet to create balance and harmony.”

Well, how can I create balance and harmony into this situation right now? So, it’s kind of fun to think about things that way, but there’s reasons why Tony Robbins is immensely successful at what he does as a speaker, as an inspirational leader, because he brings in stories and stories are relatable. He brings in fun. He brings in workbooks that tie in to different things. He brings in exercises, things that drive home those points, but get people to take action as well. So, these candy pieces, they make something relatable, they make people want to take action and they make it fun so that it breaks it up. We’re dealing with all these distractions, especially in the virtual environment that you can’t see, right? If someone’s, camera’s not on, you don’t know what’s going on. And if their camera is on, you don’t know what’s behind the camera and what’s going on.

Netflix, Clubhouse, friends, family, everything that’s coming in to distract these people. You can’t control that the same way that you would in an in-person experience. So, make sure that you are the best distraction of their day, that you are providing the most value and value not necessarily being things that they write in a notebook, but value being provided in the way of, wow, they leave that event and they feel something. How do they feel after your meetings? How do they feel after your experiences that you’re providing for them? What do you want that to be like? And that’s it.

Douglas Ferguson:

Excellent. Well, with that, I want to just give you an opportunity to leave our listeners with a final thought and we’ll go from there.

Rachael Green:

I think my final thought would be just be intentional. Try to put your team, your clients, your vendors, their relationship with you as a priority, right? And trying to find ways to remember their birthdays, to remember their partner’s names, that little piece of hospitality that is really easy to uncover just by looking at their LinkedIn, just by looking at a profile, write those things down. And then when if they’re in your CRM or however you organize these things, you can pull from those things, “Hey, how was your birthday last week? Did you do anything fun this weekend? How’s your wife doing?” Those things really matter to people. So, whether it’s your team or your clients or your vendors, try to remember pieces like that. Those things go a very long way.

Douglas Ferguson:

Awesome. Well, I just want to say thank you for joining me today. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you and best of luck on the adventures in the hybrid.

Rachael Green:

Thanks.

Douglas Ferguson:

Excellent. Well, how can they find you?

Rachael Green:

Yeah. So a great way to connect with me is finding me out in social media land, that’s where I live most of the time. But you can find me on Clubhouse, which is @rachaelgreen, that’s R-A-C-H-A-E-L Green like the color. You can also find me on Instagram, which is @rachgreencocktails. And those are my primary ones. I also do a lot of stuff on Facebook. If you want to join a community of people that are networking in so many different ways, there’s a lot of entrepreneurs, but there’s also people that are in the B2B world as well. My Facebook group is called Cocktails & Connections. That’s Cocktails, and then an ampersand Connections. And I do live networking at 7:30 Eastern Standard Time every Tuesday and we do all sorts of different things.

This upcoming week, we’re doing pitch strategy. So, that works really well for people who are in sales and marketing to understand the backend of your customer journey, so that when you’re presenting your value and you’re delivering what you believe is a good ROI for them, you understand certain layers of what they’re looking for. The week after that, we’re actually doing pitch practice, which is really fun.

Douglas Ferguson:

Awesome. And I can say that your Clubhouse rooms are great. So, I recommend folks go check them out if you’re in Clubhouse or are getting access to it, jump over in there, it’s very good.

Rachael Green:

Yeah. Oh, my club. Yeah. So I have a club in Clubhouse too. That’s the Virtual Events & Experiences Collective, shortened to VEEC, V-E-E-C just because I chose the longest name possible for a Clubhouse, but we host a daily room in there, week daily room at three o’clock Eastern Standard Time for about an hour, all different topics on virtual events. We talk about hybrid, how to utilize Clubhouse as an event platform. We talk about virtual, all sorts of different platforms you can use for your virtual events, speaker engagements, music events, all sorts of different things. So, we look forward to seeing you there and you can feel free to find me or follow the club. And I’ll definitely see you guys in the hallways.

Douglas Ferguson:

Sounds great. It was great having you thanks so much for joining me.

Rachael Green:

Yay, cheers. Thanks so much.

Douglas Ferguson:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of Control The Room. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released. If you want more, head over to our blog, where I post weekly articles and resources about working better together, voltagecontrol.com.

The post Episode 39: The Mixology of Hybrid Connections appeared first on Voltage Control.

As a student of how to make working together better, I’ve been reflecting on the work of past thought leaders who have influenced the business world we operate in. I find we can learn a lot when we revisit original ideas and mantras and apply them to our modern lives today. 

One such thought leader is Peter Drecker, a famous business coach and management mogul of the 1900s. He is in fact one of the original business gurus–considered as the founding father of modern management studies by common consent. Many of his ideas and thoughts on management are still used by managers worldwide today. He was one of the first authors to describe management as a distinct function and the role of a manager as a distinct responsibility; he understood and had sympathy for the challenges and demands that managers face. 

I’ve been thinking about his mantra: “What gets measured gets managed.” To me, it means that if we don’t track something and keep it top of mind, we’ll have no hope of improving or maintaining it. For example, if we don’t record the fact that we are always spending more money than we take in, then we don’t manage that problem, and we never fix it. 

His idea inspired my modern-day mantra of visualizing your thinking: “What gets visualized gets velocity”.  In other words, if everyone is not clear on the opportunity or direction, it’s very difficult–if not impossible–to get steady traction on collaborative work; and the best way to get clarity quickly is through visualizing!

One of the most effective ways to visualize your thinking is through a prototype designed to transform ideas into tangible, workable artifacts. Prototypes are visual representations of ideas and can take various forms. A picture is worth a thousand words, as they say, and a prototype is worth a thousand meetings.

The type of prototype depends on your objective. For example, a project manager may use a storyboard, written brief, or sample pitch of an idea to present to her team. A designer may use a mood board to portray his ideas, and a developer might code something to show her approach to other team members. To choose your prototype, think about how your idea can best be portrayed visually. 

This is critical for productive work because when we come together and just talk about ideas, we’re not truly doing anything. It can actually stop us from doing any meaningful work at all. So many times when a leader or manager asks for something and there is slow or no progress it usually because the team doesn’t fully understand the ask, and it’s hard to get motivated if you don’t understand the what and why. Creating a quick prototype that visualizes what you are going to do adds tons of clarity.

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Also, if we don’t capture ideas and input during meetings, it is likely they will be forgotten and participants might walk away with different interpretations of what happened. When we come together and prototype, we are able to see individuals’ thoughts and ideas and surface differences. Without the alignment and clarity from visualization,  teams get stuck in endless cycles of stopping and starting work, lose momentum, and eventually fall short of maximum acceleration. You are more aligned and able to execute in unison when you visualize and bring the thinking “together”. Using a prototype during meetings means nothing is forgotten and more is explored–achieving more velocity. 

Prototyping Tools

There are several excellent tools that help you construct, share, and collaborate prototypes. Here are a few of our favorites as Voltage Control:

1. Google Docs – Smart editing and styling tools support joint teamwork to flow smoothly and easily and keep ideas in one place. Teams can work on different pages or in different docs accordingly. Use comments and tags to work in real-time.
2. Google Slides – Interactive work templates with multiple pages to allow individual and collective work.
3. Google Sheets – Collaborative spreadsheets to organize, plan and update tasks and information. 
4.  Mural – Digital whiteboard with collaborative templates for visual collaboration including planning, brainstorming, and designing.
5.  Figma – Collaborative design platform to design, prototype, and gather feedback in real-time in one place.

The team at Voltage Control uses each of these tools every day to create prototypes and work together. Here’s an example of one of our MURAL templates used to brainstorm and get inspired around a new idea:

Find what prototype tools work best for you and develop a practice of bringing a prototype to every meeting. Doing so will provide clarity, direction, and actionable steps to help your team visualize for velocity and achieve more by doing the work in the meeting, together.  

The post What Gets Visualized Gets Velocity appeared first on Voltage Control.

“The only assumptions that can hurt our products are the ones we don’t know about. I lean into the assumptions, I say, ‘Let’s get them all out on the table.’ Let’s align around them because until we get all of you guys aligned, we’re not going to be able to change your minds anyway.” -Tamara Adlin

Tamara Adlin is a UX expert and consultant who helps startups, and companies who want to behave more like startups, create products their customers love. She is also the co-author of the Persona Lifecycle book series and has created a method she calls Alignment Personas.

In this episode of Control the Room, I talk with Tamara about shared narratives, alignment, and personas. Listen in to hear how exploring assumptions and allowing data to inform decision-making creates a unified team and a clear perspective.

Show Highlights

[01:03] Tamara’s Start
[04:35] Discoverability vs. Intuitiveness
[13:14] How to Expose Assumptions & Misalignment
[21:30] Shared Narrative Through Alignment Personas
[34:51] Tamara’s Closing Thoughts

Links | Resources

Tamara’s LinkedIn
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About the Guest

Tamara Adlin is a UX consultant who focuses on helping existing businesses run with the perspective and vitality of startups. Her background in technical communication allows her to focus on detangling the implicit and personal meanings that individuals assign to words within a communication process, while simultaneously exposing and evaluating the validity of assumptions held by key stakeholders.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a change agency that helps enterprises sustain innovation and teams work better together with custom-designed meetings and workshops, both in-person and virtual. Our master facilitators offer trusted guidance and custom coaching to companies who want to transform ineffective meetings, reignite stalled projects, and cut through assumptions. Based in Austin, Voltage Control designs and leads public and private workshops that range from small meetings to large conference-style gatherings.

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Full Transcript

Douglas Ferguson:

Welcome to the Control the Room Podcast, a series devoted to the exploration of meeting culture and uncovering cures for the common meeting. Some meetings have tight control and others are loose. To control the room means achieving outcomes while striking a balance between imposing and removing structure, asserting and distributing power, leaning in and leaning out. The service of having a truly magical meeting. Today, I’m with Tamara Adlin of Adlin Incorporated. She is a UX expert and consultant who helps startups and companies who want to behave more like startups, create products their customers love. She is also the co-author of The Persona Lifecycles book series, and has created a new method she calls the Alignment Personas. Welcome to the show, Tamara.

Tamara Adlin:

Thank you, so great to be here.

Douglas Ferguson:

So, to kick things off, tell us a little bit about how you got your start.

Tamara Adlin:

Well, I got my start in the field of user experience before there was really a clear field of user experience. My family was interested in psychology and art, my mom and my dad, and I ended up doing an independent major to combine both, having no idea where that would go, and then discovered the field of human computer interaction and ended up going to the University of Washington’s department of Technical Communication for my master’s degree, and I didn’t even know what Technical Communication was. And today that department is called human centered design and engineering. And so I sort of made a straight line without having any idea where I was going and fell in love with the field and have been happily doing this work ever since I got my master’s degree in 1996, and have been working in large companies and startups ever since then.

Douglas Ferguson:

That’s amazing. I had a very different experience that’s very parallel. So around ’96, ’97, I was at my first startup and writing software and we had built a lot of awesome technology and had some provisional patents, and were definitely leading the way on web analytics. Prior to us no one was doing the 1×1 pixel, which everyone does now. And it was ad click and all these folks that were doing server file analysis. And we thought we were hot stuff. We had Walmart, we had Victoria’s Secret, we had an Eddie Bauer, we had every e-commerce brand you can imagine. Well, brick and mortar brand that were just going online and needed these analytics. And along came a company called Omniture.

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah.

Douglas Ferguson:

And they started picking away clients left and right, because they had a better user experience, and we didn’t even have that terminology then, but we knew exactly what they were doing, we saw what was happening, but we were in no position to react. And that’s what sent me on my journey to where I’m at now and understanding the importance of this kind of work. So it’s kind of interesting that just our experiences and what got thrown at us from the world just kind of prepared us for this work.

Tamara Adlin:

Well, yeah. And I’ll add to that, I love that this is your first question. I did a series of interviews in 2006 and 2007, and I’ve published some of them but not all of them on a site called uxpioneers.com. And they are always some of the generation before me, the ones who actually created our field, and all of them came from completely random places and their experience sort of led them to create this whole field of user experience. And it’s a bunch of fascinating weirdos, right? And I started every interview with, “What’s the first thing you can remember fascinating you?” And we were off and running from there.

So, I too love thinking about how this entire world sort of evolved from people’s curiosity and starting to notice the source of the problem and that source being what we call now user-friendliness or things making sense to regular human beings. We all get so enamored with technology, but the linchpin is the people who are trying to use that stuff.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. It’s interesting, the notion of how intuitive something is. It’s one of the most difficult things to grapple because of the curse of knowledge. Once we know how something works, it’s hard to remember what it was like to not know that and put ourselves in those folks’ shoes. And I just don’t know how you get around just not talking to humans.

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah. Everybody used to talk about intuitiveness, and there’s almost nothing that’s super intuitive, but there’s a lot of stuff that’s discoverable, which basically means that if you see it once you won’t forget it, right? And so I think we actually build user interfaces a lot on discoverability as opposed to intuitiveness. And I think that that’s totally fine.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. I was kind of blurring those two concepts more, just the notion that I know that we’re working on a product to use inside of virtual meetings, and just the terminology, I’ll name something some way and it makes total sense to me and people will see it and it’s like they have no idea what it means. And I explain it and then they say, “Oh, that.” And so if I hear “that” enough times, then that’s what goes in the product, right? Because I feel like they understand it immediately, or it relates to more people than whatever word that I dreamed up that no one understands.

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah. And before this interview, we were talking a little bit, you said one of the things you asked people is what their superpower is. And I think one of my personal superpowers is that I am good at looking at products and designs and seeing them through the eyes of a first timer. There’s just some mode that I feel like I can put myself in, now that’s not flawless by a long shot and doesn’t replace actual user testing, but it’s an interesting place to try to put yourself in.

And I also think what you said about the wording. So often in my workshops I end up very quickly creating a document called glossary. And honestly, that glossary is one of the most important products, deliverables, of most of the work that I do, even though it’s never once mentioned in the description of the workshop or in the contract, or even in conversations that we have before a client hires me.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. I think that definitely relates to something we were also talking about in the pre-show chat, which was this notion of perceived value of this work. A lot of executives would look at a statement of work then insert a glossary. I’m sure they were glossed right over that. What’s the benefit of this, right? Whereas you and I know that the alignment is so critical and I don’t think I’ve ever made a glossary for a client, although we’ve done it. I did it for… A few of them are startups internally, just because I got tired of hearing people being confused about words and said, “Let’s just write these down.”

But so much of the work is about helping people just understand each other. If you’re in a session and you’re a good facilitator, you’re going to start linking and noticing that people are using different words to describe different things. This is a massive opportunity for improving efficiency across teams. So tell me a little bit more about the glossary, and why aren’t people valuing these things as much?

Tamara Adlin:

Okay. Well, I’m going to answer that question in a way that’s not going to seem totally obvious, but here’s the thing about this executive alignment work about the workshops and all of this. I started out as a user experience person interested in user experience design, and then I started getting interested in, well, if we have great designers working on this stuff, why aren’t the products better that we deliver? And then I started looking at what gets in the way of delivering great design, and that could be anything and everything from not having enough budget to do research before you do the design to executives coming in and doing the swoop and poop seagull management six weeks after the design starts and telling you to make the logo bigger or whatever it is. And that’s how I started getting really interested.

I mean, all UX is about swimming upstream, right? And I swam all the way upstream into the executive suite where I realized that it is politically impossible for them to realize that they’re talking past each other and for anybody to make a decision or draw a line in the sand that they write down and stick to. And I got fascinated with trying to solve that problem all in the name of, how can we launch products that are designed better? Right? And so when you track it all the way up to the C-suite, what you start to realize is the problems are as much social and organizationally political and based in fear or just based in… My dear friend and super smarty pants, Katie Geminder calls it the game of telephones that exists in all executive suites. It’s something that they have built themselves, they can’t see it and you cannot fix it from the inside. And it is sometimes as basic as writing down and reflecting to them that the two of you, CMO and CFO or whatever are using this word to mean two different things. Right?

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. I was also thinking as you were talking about just vulnerability and trust, because especially that there’s been a lot of writings about the first team, this notion that as you get into leadership you’re no longer responsible for your organization you’re responsible for the executive team. You’re a member of the executive team. Your peers are now leaders of other organizations, not the people in your organization. And I just see so many executive teams struggle with that one issue. And I think it just manifests itself in other ways. And it’s almost like these people are so skilled at life and at doing things, they create coping mechanisms that they don’t even realize they’re creating. And so everything’s kind of somewhat functional, but if you really look at it, it’s pretty dysfunctional. They’re getting things done.

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah. What they’re really good at is getting higher and higher in an organization. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but then once you reached the top, now what do you do? And so I like to think a lot about… What I do too is user centered design, where each executive is both a product that is used by their peers, right? And is a user of their peers as products. So are you usable and are your colleagues usable to you? Right? Which is a totally different way of looking at it. But the nice thing about that is that it then tells user experience people, “You can use the same skills that you used to create better products to make yourself more usable and to become a more informed consumer of others in your organization, and to clearly ask for what you need.” And that also is true then at the executive level, but it just gets trickier up at the top.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it’s really fascinating this notion of inner departmental services. I know Zappos a few years back were experimenting with something they were calling market-driven dynamics. And essentially every team got a budget and they were supposed to release a services list. And so teams would request services of each other and they were kind of creating market-driven dynamics within the company, which is really fascinating. But I think conceptually that’s interesting. What I heard from folks was the overhead of managing a P&L for every team is a little much, right?

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah. Yeah. But I think even doing that as an exercise, maybe not operationalizing it and actually turning it into a P&L, but doing that as an exercise for yourself, for your team, even for the teams that you work with most closely, and getting aligned on what is it that you offer and what is it that you need and are those things matching up, is really, really interesting. And it’s really, really fruitful.

Douglas Ferguson:

So tell me a little bit about… I’m really curious how the executive alignment workshop works. Your goal is to get executive alignment, but it’s the alignment personas workshop, I believe.

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah. So I wrote these books on data-driven personas, right? And I co-authored them with John Pruitt, who’s awesome. And they are about, how do you really prepare an organization to use personas? And then how do you use data to create them? And then how do you actually physically use them on a day to day basis? Well, I wrote these books and then I went into consulting in 2005 and I never ended up creating data-driven personas. Partially because no one had the budget for it, also partially because the stories I heard from organizations that did have the budget is that they would launch them and then their personas would fail. So I started thinking about that as a problem. And what I ended up doing, long story short, was deciding that or realizing that if an executive… I’m just going to call them executives, it could be stakeholder, whatever. If they have an idea about the way something should be built, you can’t convince them that’s not the way it should be built, until you show them that their way doesn’t work.

So I knew that assumptions at the stakeholder and higher levels were actually the thing driving product decisions. And there’s a good reason for that. If you think about even just a startup, by the time a startup tries to build a product, what they’ve done is they have created pitch decks, they’ve created demos, maybe they’ve created an MVP, they’ve gotten money. And what that means is that people have looked at their assumptions about the way to build something and told them it’s valuable. Until they build that thing the way they think it should be built, you can’t convince them to do otherwise.

So I have an example for you, imagine that you wanted to buy a new house, and imagine that you have it in your head that you want a yard because you have a dog or you have a kid, right? I know there’s an order about saying these things, but whatever. So I could show you all the data in the world that says that owning a house with a backyard actually costs more than it is valuable. That it actually makes a huge amount more sense to buy a house near a park, near an unleashed dog area, near a playground. It’s not going to change your mind about wanting a house with a yard. It doesn’t matter how much data I give you. If you want a yard and that’s in your head, you’re going to buy a house with a yard.

And I think startups are similar. I think the people who run startups want a house with a yard. And that you need to lean into that and get all of those assumptions out on the table. Why they want a yard, how big of a yard? Do they all define a yard the same way? And help them by saying, “The only assumptions that can hurt our products are the ones we don’t know about.” If you think of a yard as a tiny strip of land, and you think of a yard as an acre and a half of wilderness, then we’re in trouble. Right? So I lean in to the assumptions, and I say, “Let’s get them all out on the table. Let’s align around them, regardless of whether or not having a yard is fundamentally the best idea. Because until we get all of you guys aligned, we’re not going to be able to change your minds anyway. Right?”

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. And it reminds me of… Especially your question around, well, how big is this backyard?

Tamara Adlin:

Right.

Douglas Ferguson:

Reminds me of the clean language questions, because so many people talk in metaphor and jargon and the clean language questions are so great at kind of helping tease out those differences and get to deeper understanding. The jargon’s great. As long as we’re referencing the same glossary, it can be really great to make our communication really efficient, but I think humans tend to go to that efficient communication too early before we’ve established the norms and gotten really well aligned, and then it really causes a lot of problem, because we’re moving quickly and we’re assuming that we were… You made a comment that the only assumptions that will hurt us are the ones that we haven’t discovered.

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah.

Douglas Ferguson:

And the assumptions we’re making that we understand each other, those are maybe the most dangerous.

Tamara Adlin:

I think you’re right. I think the clean words, the glossary, you and I know that that is the root of the problem. The other root of the problem is the lack of numbers. So another thing that happens with my workshops is I always start with articulating measurable… I call them business goals, but their product goals or their project goals. And I do them with this Mad Libs format, right? So that everyone has to be articulate with… The first word is increase or decrease. The second part of the Mad Libs is some important measurable number. The third part of the Mad Libs is an actual number like 20% or 80%. And the last part of the Mad Libs is in some time period, like three months after launch. And there’s reasons for all those pieces.

But instead of diving into that, what I want to say is, every single time when I do this, the client says, “Well, we already have our goals nailed down.” And I say, “Send them on over.” And either they send old ones from when they were at the beginning of the year, or more often I get, “Hey, Sandra, did you have the latest board deck? Because we had some thoughts in there and then we had the original vision and metrics. And Bob, did you have the KPIs for the flim-flam challis wham or whatever?” I mean, they’re all over the place. And that’s because every time more than one executive is in a room together, something shifts slightly and nobody writes it down. So they all tell me, “We’ll take out the goals part of this. We don’t need this as part of the project.” But the amazing thing, my other little cute… As consultants, we have lots of cute things we say, well, the magic of business goals is that it’s never inappropriate to ask for them and they never exist.

So that’s what I mean by actual numbers. And what I tell people is, “I don’t care whether you decide that you want to increase new signups by 20% or 80%, what I care about is that all of you agree that it’s in the realm of 20% versus in the realm of 80%.” Right? So first the metric is the clean language, right? Increased number of people who create an account. That’s hard to actually get to sometimes. And then 20% versus 80%. So I think we’re down to words and numbers you and I. I think we’ve solved the world with words and numbers.

Douglas Ferguson:

Well, I’m going to bring up something that came up in the pre-show chat. This seems like a nice segue to your statement that data doesn’t solve any of the problems.

Tamara Adlin:

That’s right. Yeah. Everybody relies on data for everything. Companies are like, “Well, if we have a problem, let’s go out and get data to solve it.” But data doesn’t solve most business problems. And that’s because, unless you know what the assumptions are that that data is up against, and unless those assumptions have been articulated and fully appreciated, data isn’t going to change your mind. Data isn’t going to change your mind about wanting a damn yard. It’s just not.

So first you have to know they want a yard, right? And you have to respect that because they did get money, either from their investors or from their organization to pursue project X, which is project X is to solve some problem for some set of people in some unique way that we think will make money or whatever. All right. Well, they got all the way to the point where this thing is funded, however, it’s funded, they’ve been validated by the most important people in their lives, their bosses, their investors, based on the ideas they’ve shared, their assumptions about the right way to do this thing. Data is not the thing that’s going to tell them they were wrong. Unless you fully understand that their assumption is that users want peanut butter, right? Now that you know that they think some users want peanut butter and some users want jelly, now you can go out and get data and show them, “We actually looked at these people and they actually want almond butter. Here, we’ll show you.” That’s got nowhere to land unless you know what it is that they’re thinking and… Yeah.

Douglas Ferguson:

That definitely aligns with my experience and observations. Also, I think there’s a layer there, which is, if you couple that with how curious the person is, that has an impact. Because, people that are highly curious are typically easier to have that conversation about the backyard. And when I say curious, I’m talking about a child’s mind curiosity. And I think that’s why these workshops that we do are so powerful at helping people address this type of work, because we’re putting them in that mindset. Of course, we’ve got systems to walk them through, but also getting to a point where they become curious and they start examining things, to me, is one of those first steps. And if you’re already starting with highly curious people, then it’s sometimes easier.

Tamara Adlin:

Well, I like what you say about that, about curiosity and getting into that mode. I think I have thought about it differently. I’ve thought about it as changing the conversation and changing the words. So you asked me about… Executive alignment is my thing, that’s the what, and the alignment personas is the how. And the reason I create these alignment personas, which is personas based on how stakeholders are thinking about their users, right? And again, cute way of describing our projects when we’re consultants, like, this is executive alignment and five conversations, which is really about creating alignment personas.

And the first step is business goals, and the second step is listing all the words they use to describe users today, users, customers, known users, account holders, mom, and that takes about five minutes. And then doing, here’s the stickies, right? Then doing what I call the yellow sticky exercise, which is just if your product or your project was a building and you were looking at all these people showing up at the front door, like you were standing on a mountain over here looking down on them, describe each of them. Like, a mom who wants to do yoga at home, or an athlete who has an injury that they don’t know how to address, right? And that changes the conversation. That’s like, describe all these people that you can imagine showing up at your product.

And then the third conversation is clustering those understatements that start with the word I want, or I need. And I’m racing through this, but just to give you a sense, and then clustering those want and need statements into sort of motivation based personas, right? As if there was a concierge inside your building, and after a week of people streaming through, if you ask them, “Well, who’s coming to this product?” They would say, “Well, there’s a bunch of people over there who are brand new to it, there’s a bunch of people over there who have issues or problems, there’s a bunch about people who are looking for a specific solution.” And you sort of create these persona candidates out of that.

And then the last step is prioritizing them based on the numeric goals you created in the first place. And the reason I’m listing through that is because when I want to point out is it’s simply changing the conversation. It’s changing the discussion from whatever discussion they were having before that was tangling them up to this very sort of equalizing sticky note based. And at first they roll their eyes, exercise where they’re just describing the people who are going to produce the money that will pay their salaries, right? And then trying to think like them instead of thinking about them, right? And then ending up with these personas that now you can go get data and decide whether or not they’re realistic. But you were there in the room with your colleagues, with the other stakeholders, together you created them and together you prioritized them according to these agreed on business goals. And suddenly now the language has changed because now you’re able to say, “We prioritized Penelope over Roberta.” Right? “Because Penelope will help us get to our goal of having more people actually sign up than Roberta will.” For whatever reason.

So if somebody comes in in six weeks and has a cool idea, anybody could say to them, “That’s a cool idea for Roberta, but you prioritized Penelope. So do you want us to work on this Roberta idea or Penelope?” And so, because those names and those shared understanding of who those people are and their priorities and how they reflect our business needs, that changes the glossary completely. That changes the language.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it’s like a shift in perspective, right?

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah.

Douglas Ferguson:

That’s ultimately a paradigm change for folks.

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah. And the way I describe that is that it sort of transitions from thinking about their users to thinking like their users. And a huge amount of agreement can be drawn from that. Now, the reason traditional personas tend to fail is because they are designed to communicate data, right? So they are designed to summarize data. What alignment personas are built to do is to drive to and communicate agreement and alignment, no matter where it came from, because lack of alignment is a much bigger problem than lack of data.

Douglas Ferguson:

I’m seeing a few different angles of alignment or dimensions maybe. There’s the perspective of the executive to executive alignment, because now they’re really clear because they went through this process together and they got to understand it. There’s also alignment of the strategy to the goals, because now the strategy is going to be informed by these decisions that we made. And I think that goes all the way up and down the ladder, right? The tactics should then be really clear because we’re using the personas as a litmus to make sure that we are making the right decision. So it can kind of help inform decisions all the way up and down. So there’s alignment there. Is there another dimension that you’ve noticed or are those the main two?

Tamara Adlin:

Well, first of all, that’s very astute and unsurprising that you would realize that given who you are, but that’s exactly right. It’s connecting the, what we’re trying to do, the how we’re trying to do it. I think the other… You’ve sort of covered it in you’re saying like it’s an up and down alignment, but it’s also alignment between the executives and everybody else working for them in some really interesting ways. So these alignment personas can and are used to communicate throughout down in the organization. We are focusing on Penelope first and foremost, and then we’re not going to make Roberta unhappy, but when push comes to shove, and push always comes to shove, we’re going to make sure that we nail it for Penelope. Because if we don’t, we’re not going to hit our goals.

What then also happens is what goes down can come up. So if the lowest person on the design totem pole gets a visit from a very important head honcho who tells them to make the logo bigger, right? Which happens, then that lowly designer can say, “I can understand why we’d want to do that for Roberta and I can do that for you because you’re my boss. But the cost is that I’m not going to be able to do this feature change for Penelope.” It’s your choice, right? Because you’re the hot honcho. But just be able to explain to you that this doesn’t line up with what you said your priorities were in a way that’s not going to get the lowly designer fired. All they’re doing is saying, “I heard you and I respect your decision. If something has changed, let me know. I’ll do whatever you want.”

And what ends up happening is then that honcho can back down without embarrassment. And he’d say, “You know, you’re completely right. We do really want this for a Penelope.” Great reminder, go for it. Or they can tell this lowly designer, “Our executive priorities have changed, and now Roberta’s opinion of us is much more important than we thought.” Now the lowly designer can raise the flag to everyone on their team and say, “Guess what? I just heard from this head honcho their priorities have changed.” And that’s great. They’re allowed to change priorities. Knowing about it enables us to do something about it because it happens anyway and we don’t know about it.

So that kind of magical thing where these personas give us a third sort of entity in the organization that we can blame things on, that we can invoke that are apolitical, is sort of a magical thing. It’s like you have two kids who are mad at each other and then they both get mad at the parent. Right? It’s a sort of common… Not this case, an enemy, but commonplace to put sort of blame for pushback.

Douglas Ferguson:

I love this notion of the shared narrative that allows it to… I don’t know. It definitely helps the communication because I would say that’s the hardest thing I see executive teams struggle with as… I mean, first they need to be aligned, but then even the ones that are aligned, it’s great and all if you get aligned inside the workshop, but if you don’t disseminate that throughout the organization, then it’s not going to take hold.

And I think one of the qualities of one of my favorite leaders, the chairman of my last startup, was I would just see him tell the same story over and over and over and over again. Whether it was in our board meeting, or in an executive meeting, or an all-hands meeting, or at the water cooler with the admin. It didn’t matter who it was, what we were talking about, they didn’t dilute the message. That’s a superior skill because I recognize myself abbreviating, shortening, because I feel like I’ve said it a million times, that it’s super important for people to get the real thing and to get it undiluted and make sure that we’re empowering the organization to know what to do.

Tamara Adlin:

Yeah. I want to put a whole other angle on that. I think a lot of people who listened to this podcast are people who are in the business of controlling the room. Right? And I think one thing that I’ve noticed in myself is I keep thinking that I have to come up with new concepts or new workshops or new whatever, but the truth is that the same work that I’ve been doing for years is still highly relevant. Executive alignment is never not going to be a problem. And even though I find myself repeating myself on different podcast interviews or whatever, right? I have to respect that what I offer is valuable and worth repeating without constantly having to come up with something new to have value as a service provider. I know it’s kind of an odd way to reply to what you’re saying, but I think a lot of us must struggle with this. I feel like I should be creating articles on new topics all the time, but the truth is, honestly, what I should be doing is creating articles on the same topics all the time.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. Repetition is often key. And I think the beauty is, how do we make sure people hear what we were trying to say? And we’re there for people when they need to hear it.

Tamara Adlin:

The adjustments come in adjusting the same message for a different set of ears.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah.

Tamara Adlin:

The way I’m talking to you now, I would never summarize this workshop that fast or business goals that fast for any other audience. But since I know I’m talking to a bunch of workshop facilitators, I know they’re like, “Oh, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yep.” So it’s an adjusted message but the core value is still the same. And I think we all want that from our leaders, to your point about the CEO or something. There’s huge relief in knowing what you’re doing as a lower person in the organization. That it aligns with the entire business, that there’s a reason that you’re doing it. And then you have clarity in the direction that you’re going.

We all want Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer up in front saying, “No, it’s this way. It’s this way. It’s this way.” And I think part of my job is helping to establish that red nose. But my analogies are going all over the place, which means I’m happy in the conversation.

Douglas Ferguson:

But you got to have the signal, right? There’s got to be a signal somewhere.

Tamara Adlin:

And it’s got to be clear and not change too much. And if it does change, you have to be able to say, “It changed everybody, so let’s adjust, but let’s adjust together.” Because my whole thing about alignment is like, if you picture a bunch of thoroughbred race horses all attached to a carriage, they could be the fastest race horses on the face of the planet, but if they are heading in slightly different directions, just a couple degrees off, that chariot is not going to go very fast.

Douglas Ferguson:

It may even get damaged in the process too.

Tamara Adlin:

Exactly. Right? And so you’ve hired these thoroughbred race horses who all obviously can go fast, so why aren’t you going faster? It’s because you’ve attached them all to a chariot but they’re all heading in slightly, slightly different directions. And the reason why I’m a consultant and will never take a full-time job is because you can’t fix that from the inside. Not possible.

Douglas Ferguson:

Well, we are at time and-

Tamara Adlin:

Oh, sorry. I’m having so much fun.

Douglas Ferguson:

No, no, this is great. That’s why I had to drop in that message thinking, “Okay, we’re done.” Because often, my guests are so much fun to talk to, we could just probably talk for hours and we had to end at some point. So I want to give you just a moment to leave our listeners with something that you’d like them just to keep top of mind.

Tamara Adlin:

What I want to leave people with is that I’m really into this notion of executive alignment as a place for us to focus our attention and work. And I’m really interested in… I mean, of course, because I have my alignment personas and persona stuff, I’m really interested in finding ways to align them by changing the conversation to be around their most important people in the company, which are their users. But I think whatever it is that you do, whatever workshop you provide, thinking a lot about what is it that’s part of already part of your workshop or the work that you’re doing that is about alignment? And really articulating that, creating a deliverable around that, creating a message around that, so we get the word out to the industry that this is something that people should shop for. This is a problem they should recognize without it being threatening. And it is a solvable problem. It’s so fascinating to me and it’s so powerful.

Douglas Ferguson:

How can listeners find you?

Tamara Adlin:

Oh yes. Well, I have a website, adlininc.com. A-D-L-I-N-I-N-C.com. And that has links to medium articles and stuff. And you can also find me ish on uxpioneers.com, where I have a lot of interviews with the people who started the UX entire field. And there are links on my site to recordings of presentations and podcasts and things like that. And I’m always looking for fun speaking opportunities, so if you have any get in touch with me.

Douglas Ferguson:

It’s been a pleasure speaking with you Tamara, thanks for joining me.

Tamara Adlin:

Oh, the pleasure is all mine. Oh, please. Thank you so much.

Douglas Ferguson:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of Control the Room. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released. And if you want more, head over to our blog, where I post weekly articles and resources about working better together, voltagecontrol.com.

The post Episode 38: We Know What Happens When You “Assume” appeared first on Voltage Control.