“The power of facilitation is to bring all the voices to the table, and as you may have heard this saying, “nothing for us without us,” and I love that, it resonates so much.”-Alexis Scranton

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson converses with Alexis Scranton from Aligned Impact Solutions. Alexis shares her journey from teaching kindergarten and third grade to training teachers on national reform projects, which led her to specialize in facilitating corporate social responsibility and social impact initiatives. The discussion highlights the importance of inclusivity in decision-making, the differences between facilitating adult learning and teaching children, and the role of effective questioning in overcoming resistance. Alexis emphasizes creating environments where all voices are heard, fostering collaboration, and drawing out collective wisdom for impactful outcomes.

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About the Guest

Alexis Scranton, is a dynamic facilitator, strategist, and change-maker dedicated to building capacity at all levels of an organization—from executives to frontline professionals. With a background in global education and leadership development, Alexis has spent her career teaching, training, and coaching across the U.S., South Korea, Malaysia, and Brunei. Her experience spans both traditional and nontraditional learning environments, working with students, educators, and leaders to develop skills, foster innovation, and implement strategic initiatives. In addition, she has managed programs and strategic partnerships that support professional growth and organizational transformation, equipping teams with the tools they need to succeed.

Through her work, she helps leaders and teams navigate complex challenges, align their visions to drive meaningful outcomes. Recognizing the power of facilitation in fostering engagement and strategic clarity, Alexis pursued certification through Voltage Control and has since engaged in ongoing professional learning, exploring a variety of facilitation methods and approaches. She specializes in bringing clarity to complexity, guiding groups toward a shared vision and transformative action, while ensuring that diverse voices are heard in decision-making processes.

The organizations Alexis works with—whether in education, government, nonprofits, or corporate sectors—are united by a common mission: contributing to positive peace, creating lasting impact, and driving change in their communities. 

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

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Transcript

Douglas Ferguson:
Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab Podcast, where I speak with Voltage Control certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method-agnostic approach, so you can enjoy a wide-range topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances of enabling meaningful group experiences. This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening. If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our Facilitation Lab community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in realtime with peers. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab. If you’d like to learn more about our 12-week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com.
Today I’m with Alexis Scranton at Aligned Impact Solutions, where she helps corporate social responsibility and social impact leaders avoid costly problems around stakeholder misalignment, community engagement, and private-public partnerships. Through facilitation of collaborative and inclusive dialogues, she guides teams toward clarity, alignment, and strategy.
Welcome to the show, Alexis.

Alexis Scranton:
Hi. Thank you, Douglas. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah, of course. It’s so great to have you. As usual, I’d love to hear a little bit about how you got started. Your career began in education, teaching kindergarten and third grade, if I recall correctly. Can you tell us a little bit about that moment you first realized that facilitation might be your true calling?

Alexis Scranton:
Oh, wow. Well, after teaching elementary school, I actually moved into training teachers on several different national reform projects. I think that’s when, although I may not have had the name for it at the time, recognition of the need for facilitation probably first emerged.

Douglas Ferguson:
What did that feel like? Do you remember some of those early moments around what you were noticing or feeling at the time?

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah. Being that, again, these were in other countries and these were major reform projects where you’re talking about big system-level changes. There are a lot of different stakeholders involved, from the teachers themselves all the way up to district-level educators and other stakeholders. With any change, I’m sure you know, there’s a lot of resistance and a lot of emotion that comes along with that. I started to recognize the importance of being inclusive of everyone’s voice, the need for everyone’s input in order to have that buy-in.
I worked a lot with teachers one-on-one in a coaching space, but even in coaching, it is very similar in a lot of ways to facilitation. In order for the teachers to be excited and willing to make these changes being asked of them in the classroom, I really had to engage with them. Again, have their voices be heard, include, and consider their opinions and their voices. That’s, again, when I started to realize, not really understanding facilitation as it separate field necessarily, but the importance of inclusiveness in decision making.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah, it’s easy to start cuing in on the dynamics, especially if you’re responsible for helping groups make progress. It’s easy to start noticing some of those things. Often, we’ll talk to folks that have been in facilitation for a while and starting to learn new things. You’ll hear things like, “Wow! It’s amazing to have vocabulary to put toward these things I’ve been noticing for years.”

Alexis Scranton:
Oh, yeah, definitely. Even in education itself, you can use that same approach. There’s different ways people go about teaching, but really the best way to have people to learn is, again, taking that same participatory approach, have people engaged in their learning. Even in that way as I was facilitating learning and training, again not knowing facilitation as a field of its own, or not having the language necessarily, but being able to still apply those concepts, apply it to education and learning.

Douglas Ferguson:
You mentioned reform earlier. I’m really curious to hear a little bit more about that, especially for our listeners that maybe haven’t been in those spaces with teachers, and superintendents, and school district issues. What are some of the things that they were facing? You mentioned systems change. Help our listeners understand a little bit more about the kinds of things they were dealing with. Was this things that were coming from outside policy that they had to just react to, or were there things they were want to change? What was the nature of some of this stuff?

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah. Well, it all initiated at the national level. The countries where I work, you have the ministries of education wanting to make changes for one reason or another. But often time, we’ll directly relate it to the teaching pedagogy, the way in which the teachers were teaching. I doubt that they had a lot of say-so in the initiatives being started, but they were definitely frontline and impacted probably the most by these initiatives. Then right after then, probably those people that were over the teachers, so your coaches or your school-level administrators also responsible for ensuring these changes are happening, they’re accountable for them. It’s impacting all levels, but the teachers, again, I don’t believe they probably had a lot of input into the decision being made.

Douglas Ferguson:
In your work making it more inclusive and facilitative, were you able to at least bubble up their input? So that, even though they didn’t have a say whether or not the change would happen, were they able to influence how it rolled out or some of the nuances?

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah. In these situations, I wasn’t fully in a facilitative space as we know it, but I was able to … Again, the concepts of the inclusive voices and so forth really came about more in a coaching setting. Then also, in our training workshops. Again, as a coach who my role was to support the teachers in implementing these changes within their classrooms, but I can’t force them. I didn’t have necessarily a title or position of power, so to speak. It was more of the, I don’t know, I’m forgetting the term that I’m looking for, but just being able to influence them to make these changes.
In order to do that, you’ve really got to have their buy-in, their belief in the changes, the belief that it’s possible, support with the changes. As a coach, although it wasn’t formal group facilitation, it is understanding their needs, understanding the barriers, understanding from their perspective how I can best support and be of service to help them implement these changes that were thrusted upon them. Same thing with the school-level administrators as well. Again, they were also having to make changes and were responsible for overseeing the changes, so really had to support them as well.
Then I also led a lot of training workshops in order to teach these new skills to the teachers. Again, in that way, really being inclusive of their voices, understanding the dynamics of their working environment. I worked across different schools, so there’s a lot of differences when you move from school to school. Really understanding, again, their strengths and their barriers, and just what they needed. I was able to semi-facilitate in that way, in that manner.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah. Well, it sounds like there was some natural tendencies, just to be curious about the needs, and not force things upon people. Even the one-on-one coaching probably had a direct impact in the success in the classroom, because once you understood the fears, the goals, the desires, the values, then you were able to address those in the classroom and reinforce some of that stuff so that people didn’t feel so, maybe helpless, as they were navigating these changes.

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah, 100%. I would say it all has to do with the teacher in the classroom. That is the most effective, the most important, if I dare to say role, is not going to happen without the teacher doing it in his or her classroom. Yes, 100% what you just said.

Douglas Ferguson:
I’m curious, how did this work with adults differ from the work you were doing teaching younger adults, children, K-through-12 I think it was?

Alexis Scranton:
Oh, yeah. Well, I initially started out teaching just elementary school. I did later move into adult education. Yeah, totally different.
Teaching adults and teaching children. In some ways, teaching children is a lot easier, especially the little ones. They’re a lot more enthusiastic, and open, and receptive. Whereas again, adults can have a little more pushback and more resistance to things, especially if it’s a top-down approach that is being forced on them without their say-so. When you’re teaching adults and when you’re teaching children, usually the objective is different, depending. With children, it’s usually you’re teaching and they’re learning for the sake of learning. Whereas with adults, oftentimes they’re learning in order to gain a new skill and apply that new skill. It’s just different approaches, different outcomes. You’ve got to really make it applicable to their real life situation and immediate application to the workplace.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah, that real life application is so critical. I’ve seen, so many times, where folks just aren’t connected to the purpose or that layer of outcome that’s coming next. Often, I’ve seen them get labeled as the troublemaker or the difficult person. Man, as soon as you label them as such, of course that’s all they’re going to ever be. Whereas if we take the time to, like you say, really get into articulating why are we even here, how are we connecting that to these real world needs.

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah, definitely, the why. Why am I here? Why am I spending my time learning this and how can I use it?

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah.

Alexis Scranton:
It’s not to say children don’t have the same inquiries, because we know you hear children all the time, “When am I ever going to need to know this? When will I ever use this?” But it’s definitely primary for adult learners.
I’ll say something that’s the same probably amongst in both though, is that need for the social aspect of learning. That’s one thing I really appreciated with going through my certification with Voltage Control is just the combination of some asynchronous, because we all living busy lives and need to have a bit of control over when and how we’re learning. But the social aspect is critical, especially even more I think once everybody got thrusted online with COVID. I think people crave it even moreso now.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah, it’s interesting. It’s so easy to point to how different it is, and yet I think at the end of the day, we’re still humans.

Alexis Scranton:
Oh, yeah.

Douglas Ferguson:
We’re still doing the same things we were doing, we just have more nuanced maybe approaches. I think maybe one thing to consider is that kids are more likely just to say why out of the gate. Whereas adults might just be confused about the why, and then not even ask or just be there in their state of confusion and get disgruntled, or whatever. Does that fit with your observations? Were kids more likely to vocalize the why when it wasn’t clear?

Alexis Scranton:
To ask why, “Why do we have to do this?” Not as much. I think children are … It’s a bit of a social construct. They go to school and know they have to go to school to learn all the things they need to learn. It’s just an expectation that, “I’m here just to learn for the sake of learning.”
I won’t say that they’re necessarily more inquisitive, adults are inquisitive, but it’s different. Whereas again, adults, especially if they’re not self-selecting to take a course. Again, if they’re in they’re work environment and they’re being mandated to attend, you’ve got to really, really hone in on why, “Why I am being asked to be here, my precious time being used to learn this thing. Why is it necessary? How is it going to make a difference?” In these situations, “How is it going to make a difference for me as a teacher? How was it going to make a difference for my students?” Again, “Show me how I can take what I’m learning and apply it right away.”

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah. One thing I’ve noticed, especially with groups that are not sure, they’ve been mandated to do it, is not only attempting to explain it to them, but just again, some dialogue around why the group thinks it’s important. Because I think nuance amongst the group, it’s one thing to hear it from me, it’s another thing to hear it from one of their coworkers.

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah, I agree. That’s why what I really strive for with facilitation and doing this work is for any initiative that is going to be implemented, the hope and the desire would be that all stakeholders that are going to be impacted in any way have a seat at the table, have a voice. Because it’s much easier to … People support what they help to create. When they have a say-so in the creation of whatever this initiative might be, one, they understand what the problem is and why we’re even surfacing that the need to create a solution by way of an initiative. But they could bring different perspectives that aren’t always understood and seen when it’s being given top-down.
When they have that voice, then again, there’s the buy-in created. It’s like, “Okay, now I understand why we need to address this, and I’m offering up my opinions as far as solutions as to how we might address this. My day-to-day life, work life and circumstances are being considered, so that you’re not asking me to do things that are impractical.” Just all these things are considered and included. I think, I don’t think, I know, the research shows that it actually helps to make different strategic initiatives much more impactful. That is the power of facilitation is just to bring all the voices to the table.
You may have heard this phrase or this saying, “Nothing for us without us.” I love that. I just love that. It resonates so much.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah. It’s bringing to mind a comment you made in your alumni story about when facilitating, just experiencing a sense of connection and momentum. This idea of with us maybe creates that momentum. Tell me a little bit more about this connection and momentum you feel when facilitating.

Alexis Scranton:
Oh, yeah. Definitely. Again, it just gets everybody on board. If you tell me, “Alexis, you’ve got to do this thing,” and I didn’t understand why, and I had no say-so, and this thing you’re asking me to do, I feel like it’s putting me out of my way. You’re not considering A, B, and C, these other components. Again, there can be this resistance, even if it’s passive resistance, that happens a lot.
But when you come to me and say, “Hey, there is either a problem or there’s some change we want to make, would love your input. I would love your perspective, would love to hear what you think is causing the problem.” Or, “Would love to hear your perspective on how we might create this solution.” Just include the voice. Automatically, I’m more excited, I’m more bought in, and I see my ideas included. It’s just natural, there’s going to be more momentum, more excitement around it, and more success.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah, absolutely. I’ve certainly witnessed it. It’s making me also think about, you talked about how coaching played a big part in your evolution into this facilitation work. There’s actually a talk at the Facilitation Lab Summit this year around how coaching skills can be directly applied to facilitation and vice versa. Almost this idea of coaching is one-to-one, whereas facilitation is one-to-many, but we might use the same tools and techniques, and maybe even the same questions.

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah, yeah. No, that’s a great point and a great comparison. It is, because if you think about what coaching gives. For those who may not be familiar, coaching, you’re asking questions with the belief that the person being coached has the inherited wisdom. They have all the answers within, you’re really just asking questions to draw it out of them, to help them come to their own realizations, draw their own conclusions. It’s the same thing when you’re working with the group and you’re facilitating a group, you’re really just drawing out that collective wisdom. You’re asking questions, you may be making some comparisons to make sure those are realized. But it’s not you imparting any knowledge, or wisdom, or expertise. Same thing with coaching.
It’s a skill that has to be developed. Because a lot of times, people want to just jump in with the answers and solutions, but you have to very much contain that and allow the people to get to that space. When they do, it is so much more rewarding for them. Yeah, whether it’s an entire group or whether it’s the individual, again, back to that buy-in, it’s like, “Wow, these are my ideas that I can up with, I believe in them, and I’m excited to now move forward with them.” Yeah, it is. Yeah, you’re right. It’s just like coaching.

Douglas Ferguson:
I love that point around the importance of questioning. I’m curious, what are some of your go-to questions to pull that stuff out of people?

Alexis Scranton:
Oh, wow. Well, it really depends, but something … Let’s see. Maybe just, “Tell me more about that,” just to get people to elaborate and expand.

Douglas Ferguson:
Great one.

Alexis Scranton:
Another question I do like to ask though, once we’ve gotten near a point of resolve and decision making. I do like to ask on a scale of one-to-10 for example, how committed they are to this decision. How committed are they to implementing this decision? That says a lot, because although they may have come up with the ideas, if I’m getting a low number, now I can dig a little deeper and ask, “Okay, well, what is it that you need that will bring that number up closer to a 10?” That says a lot about what other supports or just whatever it is that has them causing the hesitancy around that.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah, I love this idea of asking for ranges, many ways to present that. Then also, pointing the group toward the ones that need some further guidance or further dialogue to get their number up. Rather than just saying, “Hey, we’ve got a majority here, there’s 50% support. We’re good, let’s move on.” No, let’s pause and see what it could take to elevate some of the folks that aren’t in support, and then we’ll have a more robust decision. I love that, that range and then helping work with those that are lower, just how might they elevate their score.

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah, definitely. One thing I’ve learned about consensus is that it doesn’t necessarily mean everybody in the room is 100%, “I’m excited about this, ready to go.” But it does mean that, “I’m willing to move forward. I’m willing to move forward with this and I don’t see a reason to stop the group’s progress.” To your point, is how do we get everybody to that point where they feel good about moving forward.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yeah. You also brought up a really interesting point. As your asking questions, and connecting with folks, and drawing out this wisdom from the crowd, taking time to point out differences and comparisons, or maybe what’s a pocket that might need attention and helping the group focus there. Very important.
I even talk about the importance of the facilitator doing live synthesis. How are we recognizing what’s happening, replaying it back to the group so the group can keep going? We’re stoking that flame, if you will.

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah. Well, one of the things … Clarity is the keyword. I’ve recently just started my own practice, I’m excited to say. My tagline I’ve come up with is really just, “Clarity, alignment, and strategy.” This is all done through collaboration, but the first thing I really think facilitation helps groups with is to just get really clear, to your point. Because you just have so many things floating around, and ideas, and a dialogue, and often times things can get muddled or feel chaotic. Having a facilitator first brings clarity to the group.

Douglas Ferguson:
Absolutely. You just mentioned starting your practice and how clarity is so important. Earlier, you were talking about the importance of acknowledging the answer within. As the facilitator, our jobs are extract that or expose it. It’s making me remember a story that you shared in your alumni story about the vision board you put together that helped guide your self-reflection and provide your clarity on what was maybe already there, and exposed this, vision, this desire, this goal that you had. What was that process like on creating this vision board? What advice might you have to others that are in this journey of not really quite sure about what to do next? What was that like and how might others follow in your footsteps to find that clarity?

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah. It’s funny that you mentioned that process. It just made me think about clarity, but the a-ha moment when a person comes to the realization of whatever the thing is, but that’s very similar to teaching. A lot of teachers, you’ll hear them say, “Oh, they just light up when they see the look on a child’s face when they have the a-ha moment.” When they’ve realized they can do whatever the thing is they set out to do. There are some similarity there, just as to what one thing that’s really fulfilling and similar in both of those roles.
But to answer your question, yeah, I had moved. During COVID, I moved out of the education sector. Had always really been directly in education some way or another. I moved into a more corporate space, although still supporting educators. I didn’t stray too far. But as I moved up, and over, and around about within the corporate sector, I started to move further and further away from working directly with educators, and in schools, and with students. For a time, I started to feel a bit dissatisfied, like something was missing and was desiring that. But then, I also had this really big desire to move beyond just education. I wanted to really be able to do work that I felt was making an impact on society at large. Yes, education is critical and important, but then so are other causes. I wanted to be able to do something that would take me into all of these spaces.
I started a period of reflection trying to figure out what this thing was. What was this skill that was going to allow me to work to support what I like to call positive peace? I didn’t make that up, but just supporting organizations that are contributing to positive peace. Eventually, I discovered the world of facilitation. I don’t remember exactly just how, I couldn’t tell you. But the journey just consisted of reading a couple books, doing a lot of introspection, a lot of reflection over my past experiences and those things that brought me the most fulfillment and the most joy, where I felt the most competent and the most confident. I started to see the path and I started to see the connections. Then whenever I did discover facilitation, I saw the overlap. I saw how a lot of my skills would be useful as a facilitator. That just led me down this journey.
Then I moved on, I found Voltage Control and went through the certification course. At that time, I was working in partnerships, that was my role, so was really seeing the need for facilitation within that role. Especially for internal. Internal, again, the clarity and the alignment that we needed internally, and was able to utilize a lot of the skills that I learned at facilitation in that role. Then, as I say, the rest is just history. It’s just been on that path since then.

Douglas Ferguson:
What would you say is the biggest shift you’ve experienced professionally since you’ve fully embraced facilitation?

Alexis Scranton:
The biggest shift would probably be just in how I identify with my profession. I don’t know if this is true for all professions, but definitely as an educator, that just becomes a big part of your identity. I’m an educator, that’s just who I am. I still feel like I’m an educator and still want to support people in that way, but it is a shift. It is a shift from identifying myself as solely and purely an educator, to transitioning to facilitation. Then, helping others to understand what that means and the power that facilitation holds.

Douglas Ferguson:
Amazing. I’m reminded of a time that you were telling me about where you were facilitating a meeting for your organization’s executive team. If I remember, it was an opportunity to really step up into a new stage, so to speak. I’m just really curious, what was going through your mind leading up to that big facilitation moment? How did you prepare yourself, both mentally and just logistically for the challenge?

Alexis Scranton:
Oh, I’m sure I was very nervous. It was the executive leadership team, so you’re talking about your C-suite members. But at the same time, these were my colleagues. In the space where I was working, it didn’t feel very hierarchal. It was very flat and everybody was just friendly, called me by my first name. Although I was nervous, but I just reminded myself, “These are nice, supportive people.”
But furthermore, the reason. Again, I was in partnerships. We were considering several different partnerships at the time. It was my responsibility to present the key points to them, but then we also had to come to alignment and consensus as to whether or not we were going to move forward with these partnerships. That’s where I saw, “Okay, this is a time to shine. This is the space where I can bring forward these skills I’ve been learning and really make a difference.” And help, again, bring that alignment amongst the team and decide how we’ll move forward. These partnerships were going to help impact students beyond just the schools we were currently in, but just help us have a broader reach.
How did I prepare? Well, I again was either going through or had just completed the Voltage Control certification, I had a lot of resources and books at my fingertips that I utilized, and was really just constantly thinking about what the objective was. What was I trying to accomplish, what was the end goal? Just like with teaching, you start with the end in mind and work backwards. And decision how I would structure the conversation to guide them through to ultimately, again, reach a consensus about how we would move forward.
I also had to consider logistically, this team, I worked remotely, but for this particular meeting, the entire team, they were in the room together in another state from me and I was online. That was interesting, but not too bad of a challenge. Just considering the logistics. But it made it easy because they were in the room together, so they were able to converse with one another, and pair up, and do all the things, and just had to look at my face on the screen. It was very rewarding. We got a lot of positive feedback after that, and invited to facilitate in other spaces. And we did, we gained consensus as the goal was to do. It gave us some direction to move forward with.

Douglas Ferguson:
Wow! You really stepped into a challenge there, having to facilitate for the team for the first time, it’s a step-up in maybe the level of stakes in the meeting you’re facilitating, and you had to do it remote while they were in the room.

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah, yeah. But it was fun! It was good. I think what maybe would have been more challenge is if … Actually, I think some of them may have been online. I’m getting them mixed up now, because I’ve done a few things. I think the most challenging was a meeting I had to facilitate, and there were some people in the room together and some people were virtual. Now that, that’s complex. But having them all in the room together, not as bad.

Douglas Ferguson:
Yes, yes. You just had to make sure you maintained their attention. When folks are distributed across different environments, you really have to think carefully about how you’re ensuring that everyone still has a level playing field.

Alexis Scranton:
Definitely, definitely. It’s all about the participatory approach. How am I going to make sure everyone has space to participate, make sure their voices are included, their ideas are included? I love it. It really, as I sat down and was planning this session, and all of the sessions, I just kept flashing back to, “Wow! This just feels like when I was teaching, having to sit down and lesson plan.” You have all your resources and ideas. When I was a little girl, that’s when I knew I wanted to be a teacher because I used to love playing school. But it wasn’t just the part where you stand in front of your dolls and teddy bears, it was the planning part, and being creative with how you would plan the lesson. For me, I love it. I feel like I was just in my zone. It was just more confirmation, “Yeah, I’m doing the right thing. This is where I should be,” because it was just joyful.

Douglas Ferguson:
That’s so sweet. I’d love to hear more about the 10X Is Easier Than 2X.

Alexis Scranton:
Oh, yeah, yeah. That was a book that we were required or encouraged to read at work, which I did. It has been a while now, so forgive me if I’m forgetting some of the key things. A major point of that book was a lot of times … A couple things. One, a lot of times in our lives, we’re trying to do more. We’re 10X-ing. Or, excuse me, we’re 2X-ing, we’re doubling the work. We’re doubling and we’re just making these incremental changes. Which then, we often times end up maybe feeling overwhelmed, or exhausted, or just making progress, but nothing overwhelming, nothing major.
When you 10X, you’re really doing a lot less. That’s why they say 10X is easier than 2X, because when you 10X, you’re eliminating 80% of the stuff. It’s focused on what is the 20%? Whatever it is I’m trying to do, what is the 20% that I need to focus on that is going to make the biggest impact? It also went through the process by which you do that for yourself. That’s what, when I told you earlier, I sat down and I went through my professional history, and I wrote down all of those experiences that had been most impactful to me, I got that activity from that book. That was a part of me trying to 10X my life professionally. How do I let go of all the things that aren’t necessarily bringing me the most joy, or all the things that aren’t helping me to make the most impact? And just focus on the 20% that will make the biggest leaps and bounds.
That book was really profound for me, I really appreciated it. It was actually written for entrepreneurs, which I wasn’t at the time, but I was definitely striving to be one. Yeah, it just helped me to 10X my life in a lot of ways. I think that’s probably what AI is going to be doing for a lot of folks. Just really helping them to just 10X their life, getting rid of the tedious things that don’t bring them joy that they have to get done. Let AI do it so you can just focus on the innovation and the creativity, and those things to maximize your impact.

Douglas Ferguson:
As we look into the future, you’ve spoken about positive peace being a guiding concept in your facilitation, and I would imagine in your practice. I’m curious to hear more about where you’re imagining things will go. Maybe explain a little bit more for our listeners, positive peace and where you’re going with it.

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah. We hear peace and we usually think of peace of just being the absence of violence, the absence of turmoil and chaos. But the idea of positive peace is really it encompasses the institutions and the structures that help to create and sustain peaceful societies. That’s what I mean when I say positive peace.
What that looks like for me is, in my facilitation practice, I want to support organizations whose missions help to contribute to a more just and positive social environment. That could be a number of things, but they’re mission-oriented essentially. A lot of times, people hear that, “Oh, mission-oriented,” and your mind may automatically go to nonprofits. Yes, nonprofits are one entity, one sort of entity in the space of making social impact and contribution, but there are actual for-profit enterprises that are doing the same. I worked for one. Our mission was to eradicate illiteracy. Although for-profit, the mission is still there. I want to support any entity, again, that’s helping to support positive peace and helping to sustain a more peaceful society.
As far as the for-profit entities, I also just want to highlight you have the corporate social responsibilities. A lot of these big companies, as you probably may know, contribute millions of dollars towards community initiatives, community engagement, really giving back to the community. I’ve been doing a lot of research in that space. I’m really impressed, it makes me feel better about spending my money with a lot of companies, to know the good work that they’re doing. I strive to also support these corporate social responsibility initiatives too, and the work that they’re doing for communities.

Douglas Ferguson:
Impressive. It’s important to have a vision and stick to your values, so I commend you for that. We need more people doing that kind of stuff in the world.
As we come to an end, I just have another question, and then ask you to leave our listeners with a final thought. My last question is if we fast-forward five years, what impact would you like your facilitation work to have? Both personally and for the organizations you support.

Alexis Scranton:
Oh, wow. Well, I would like to say that my facilitation has helped these organizations to fulfill their missions. I would say that is the mission that I’m on, to help them fulfill their missions. That really just looks like, again, whatever these social impact initiatives are and these community engagement and partnerships, they’re more successful. They are able to, again, be more inclusive all of the voices that would be involved and impacted, and therefore make more meaningful programs and meaningful initiatives that see success and sustainability.
For myself personally, I hope to continue to build my competence, and just continue to grow in my love for facilitation and my understanding of just how profound it can be. Yeah, I’m just wanting to enjoy it more and more.

Douglas Ferguson:
Well, I’m hoping that’s the case. As we come to a close, I’d like to invite you to leave our listeners with a final thought.

Alexis Scranton:
Yeah, just a final thought about facilitation. That it is really about unlocking the collective intelligence of the people to drive real lasting impact. Again, nothing for us without us. Any time one is planning to create anything for a group of people, be sure to have their voices included in the decision making.

Douglas Ferguson:
Thank you so much, Alexis. It’s been so great talking with you today. I hope to talk to you again sometime soon.

Alexis Scranton:
Likewise! I’ll come back anytime. Thank you for inviting me.

Douglas Ferguson:
Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab Podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review and be sure to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released. We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog where I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics, and collaboration, voltagecontrol.com.

The post How Can Inclusive Facilitation Transform Decision-Making in Organizations? appeared first on Voltage Control.

At the 2025 Facilitation Lab Summit, JJ Rogers presented an exciting session titled Radical Acts of Delight, where he shared innovative ways to bring joy and surprise into every facilitated session. As a product designer and UX expert, JJ’s approach blends design thinking with facilitation, encouraging facilitators to create delightful moments that not only engage but also inspire participants.

JJ’s journey into delight began in the world of user experience (UX) design. In UX, designers aim to delight users by exceeding expectations and reducing friction in digital products. But JJ’s understanding of delight took a deeper turn when he learned from his UX research colleagues that delight isn’t just about ease—it’s about two key emotions: joy and surprise. As JJ explained, delight is a blend of these emotions, each creating a memorable and impactful experience.

Beyond product design, JJ found this concept of delight in the field of facilitation. Drawing inspiration from the book Play by Stuart Brown, he discovered that delight could be defined as the anticipation of surprise, leading to a joyful discovery. The key, according to JJ, is to build that feeling of anticipation, creating the perfect environment for surprise to unfold. This surprise, in turn, leads to joy—the ultimate form of delight.

During his session, JJ introduced three Radical Acts of Delight that facilitators can easily apply to their own sessions to create engaging, enjoyable experiences for participants. These acts are not just energizers or icebreakers—they are methods that can be integrated into the core of any facilitated session to spark creativity and foster deeper engagement. JJ’s acts are designed to help facilitators overcome resistance to activities that may seem too lighthearted or “fluffy” for professional settings.

Here are the three Radical Acts of Delight that JJ shared:

Metaphor Cards: Metaphor cards were used to help participants look at their facilitation challenges through a new lens. JJ provided a deck of random metaphor cards, each one representing a different concept, and participants were asked to relate their facilitation challenge to a metaphor. For example, how could a beehive or a sandcastle relate to the challenge they were working through? This creative thinking exercise forced participants to make lateral connections, uncovering insights they may not have thought of otherwise. The drawing element came back here, as participants were encouraged to sketch their metaphor-driven ideas.

Drawing to Communicate: In many sessions, facilitators ask participants for written or verbal input. JJ’s first act of delight encourages using drawing as a tool to get participants to think creatively and express ideas differently. Participants were asked to use a phone app to draw prompts such as a pig, a highlight from the previous day, or a facilitation challenge they were facing. The goal wasn’t to create art but to engage the creative side of the brain and communicate ideas in new ways. This exercise not only activated joy and surprise, but it also deepened the level of conversation and enriched the ideas shared.

The Twist: This act builds on the element of surprise. JJ encouraged participants to design the “world’s worst meeting” by coming up with ridiculous or counterproductive ideas. This inverted thinking exercise prompted participants to step out of their usual patterns and think about a facilitation challenge in an entirely different way. This unexpected approach—combined with the fun of imagining the worst—helped participants unlock fresh insights and ideas.

Through these radical acts, JJ demonstrated how delight, joy, and surprise could not only engage participants but also create a more impactful and memorable facilitation experience. By blending creativity and humor with facilitation techniques, JJ’s methods encourage facilitators to step outside their comfort zones and embrace new ways of thinking.

JJ’s session was a refreshing reminder that facilitation doesn’t have to be all serious and structured. Sometimes, the most powerful moments of connection come from adding a little delight into the mix. By incorporating joy and surprise into your sessions, you can transform the way participants engage, collaborate, and create.

Watch the full video below:

Transcript of JJ’s Session:

Speaker 1:
Radical acts of delight. Working title was The Random Acts. Changed it a little bit.
For the past 10 years, I’ve been on a mission to bring more delight to my facilitated sessions, and today I’m excited to share some of those methods with you. So, that you can learn a little bit about it too.

So, as Erik mentioned, I started as a product designer. Well, I’m still a product designer. I work in user experience design, or UX for short, where we’re designing products and services, and mainly digital user interfaces.

And within the field of user experience, we have this notion, this concept. It’s everywhere. I cannot escape it. It’s been with me for years. It’s all about delighting the user.

It follows me everywhere, and if you asked me a few years ago how I would define this, I might make up some answer like, “It’s about understanding the user’s needs and trying to exceed their expectations,” or maybe, “It’s about removing the friction. So, it’s a really easy experience.”

But I’ve since learned a much cooler definition for delight. And I got this definition from working with some of my colleagues in user experience. So, within user experience design, we have … Some companies, if they have the budget and the technology, they have specialists that work in research. These user experience researchers focus on understanding the humans, understanding their needs, their wants, their fears, frustrations, and what’s really cool is they can study their emotions, and try and learn what’s going on in their heads, and using technology to read their emotional state as they’re using our products and services. It’s pretty cool.

There we go. What is delight? Now if you asked one of my colleagues, my user experience research specialists how they would define delight, here’s what they might say, “Delight is not a singular emotion. Delight is two emotions. Delight is joy coupled with surprise.”

Surprise and joy, that is what makes delight. And I love this definition. I love this definition, because maybe as a product designer, or someone who is always trying to solve challenges, this feels actionable. Joy on its own, sure, we can have fun, but surprise me with it? That feels like a challenge.

I recently ran into this definition of delight outside of the world of product design, and I was really excited, because it was in an area that’s more closely related to facilitation, what we do.

I was reading the book … Well, I was skimming the book, I read a portion of this book, I don’t know if anyone’s heard of this book Play by Stuart Brown. Okay. I’m seeing some nods.

So, in this book Stuart Brown talks about the stages that humans go through in the state of play. So, when we’re in a state of play, we go through these specific stages. And I was really interested in the final stage, the final stage in our brains is the pleasure state. So, that’s where the joy comes from.

Cool. But then right before the state of joy, right before that pleasure state, there is a key moment, and that key moment that he talks about is anticipation.

Anticipation. And I actually have the definition. He describes it as waiting with expectation, wondering what will happen, a little anxiety, slight uncertainty. Now that, there’s a limit. Right? That cannot be so great.

But that is what leads to surprise, that unexpected discovery, or idea, the shifted perspective, and then the joy that we find in delight. So, that anticipation leading to the surprise, leading to the joy. There it is, the definition right here within the state of play.

So, let’s play all the time. Right? No. We have work to do. We’ve got to solve that problem, work with that person. How many of you have been told you have to innovate?

When I think about the state of play, especially, in the workplace, in a professional environment, it takes me back to one of my earliest core facilitator trauma memories.

I was working for a design agency in Austin. We were fun and funky. And we always insisted on having our product, or our client kickoffs in person. We always wanted to do these discovery workshops in person. Either we’d fly to the client, or the client would fly to us. It was a really exciting time.

Most of the project would be done remotely, or distributed, but those first few days together is where we would lay those bricks of trust early. And in this particular instance, the client was flying in from California. It happened to be a Saturday, which is very strange. We never worked on weekends, but that was the only time we could really make it happen.
So, we’re all there ready for this day and a half, two day work of discovery and learning together, and planning out this project. We were gathered around a conference table like this. And the project manager stands up, “All right. We’re going to do the icebreaker.” Without missing a beat, the client stands up, “I didn’t fly halfway across the country on a weekend to sit here and play games.” Tension.

Well, I look over and some people are slowly looking down, but peeking through curious, “What’s going to happen? How is this going to be resolved?” I would love to tell you that we leaned into that moment. We folded. “Oh, yeah. We don’t need to do that icebreaker. No. No. We’re fine. We’ll just move on with the agenda.”
Not only that, on the first break, I get with my colleagues, and we start going through the agenda, “Take out that. That’s a little too fluffy. Ah, that’s extra. Team building? No. Connections-focused, joy-inducing fun?” Crossing it all off. It was a sad day.

Silver lining, we did not have a long-term relationship with that client. But I tell that story not because it’s … Well, it is … I’m over it, clearly. I tell that story … It’s a very violent reaction to an icebreaker. It sticks with you.
But because the resistance is still there. I still run into that resistance. Maybe not in the same form. It just comes in slightly different language. Like, maybe, “How do we be more efficient? How do we be more on task?” And maybe you’ve run into some of this too, “How do you move faster?”

And so, that is why I’ve designed my radical acts of delight to be used with any facilitated session. So, these are not simply designed to be relegated to a warmup, or an energizer, which are fun. Don’t get me wrong.
These are things that you can infuse into your core purpose, into whatever your go-to method is. When I started developing this idea, I had a list of 10, or 12. And I called them my hacks for delight. Right? Like, “Oh, yeah. This little hack here. You can just apply that in there. It’ll be great.”

What we’re going to do, because we’re going to practice today, is I’m going to show you three. And we’ll practice those three acts of delight that you can adapt to any of your sessions. Are you ready for the first of three acts?
Okay. All right. Our first act is going to be drawing. So, Sarah can participate too over there. She’s already doing that hard work.

Okay. So many of our days are filled with meetings and maybe Slack messages, or I think Microsoft Teams some people use, and while even your sessions, I’m sure the number of times you ask participants to provide input, it’s either written, or it’s verbal.

So, what we’re going to do today is practice drawing. We don’t just draw to create art. It’s about communicating differently, waking up your brain, using a different part of your brain for the creative thinking side.

And so, that is what we’ll practice. All right. So, I would like everyone to take out your phones. Did you know you’re going to draw not by using pens and Post-Its, but your phones?

Now I will say, if for some reason, we do run into technical difficulties, or this app is slow to load … And I did test it out, it does take a little time to load, by the way, so, give it some time. If you don’t have your phone with you today, you can still participate in this session. You can simply use the Post-Its and the markers at your tables in front of you, and you will still get all of the delight of drawing.

Is it loading? Okay. Fantastic. I see many of you have scanned it already.

So, you’ll see the prompt. It opens in the browser. Your first prompt is to draw a pig, and you will have about a one and a half minute to do that. I’ll get my timer going.

Okay. You’re putting the finishing touches on your pig. And we’re going to move onto prompt number two. So, you can simply hit done in your apps. You’re going to draw your top highlight from yesterday. Ooh. This one’s a little more abstract. How are you going to represent that?

All right. We are going to do one more drawing prompt, and then we’ll talk about it. You thought the last one was hard? You have 90 seconds, draw a facilitation challenge that you are looking to overcome.

All right. Wrap up those drawings. Time is up. Time is up. Let’s look through some of these.
So, this prompt is … We’re not going to really go into that. We’re going to explore it later. But I wanted to prime your brains to start thinking about it. That’s the only reason it’s in there.

So, I’m looking at some of your drawings. Wow. I see a lot of detail, some people. Look at this. We’ve got a champion. Someone’s celebrating themselves. Oh. I think I see a safety net.

We’ve got a cluster of Post-Its, but look at the detail and the color, and the lines. They’re used.

Oh, what else? Someone went to happy hour without us all. Okay. Let’s look at the piggies, because that’s really what I’m focused on here. You know my grandfather owned the pig farm. It gave me special powers. I can interpret the meaning of your pig. The way in which you drew your pig tells me how others see you, and how you see yourself.

So, let’s see, if the pig is drawn towards the top of the screen … That one is in the middle. If the pig is drawn towards the top of the screen … If it’s drawn towards the top of the screen, you are perceived as a positive and optimistic person by others.
Now if it’s drawn towards the middle like this, you have good space on the top and the bottom, you are perceived as a realist.
If it’s drawn towards the bottom of the screen, you may have a tendency to behave negatively under pressure. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Okay. Now the direction of your pig is very important as well. If your pig is facing left, you believe in tradition, are friendly, and remember dates and birthdays.

If it’s facing to the right, you are innovative and active, but you have a poor memory for dates and birthdays. And, of course, if it’s just facing towards the center, well, you are a direct person, and enjoy stirring the pot. How am I doing so far?
Legs are very important as well. If you have shown four legs, as quite a few of you have actually, you are secure. You stick to your beliefs, and you’ve been told, at least, once in life that you are stubborn. And that would be me.

And if you haven’t shown all four legs, so, anything less than four legs, you are living through a period of major change.
The ears are also very important. The larger the ears, the better listener you are.

And last but not least, the length of the pig’s tail correlates to the quality of your personal relationships. Like I said, it’s a family trait. Hope I got all of you.

Okay. Let’s see if I can do this. All right. We’re back in action. Can you take that? Thank you.

The reason I chose this app, and I met with the founder of this app too, is because they’ve done their homework on what drawing brings to the table. This app is designed for conference settings. So, that everyone can contribute. And they’ve done … Remember our UX researcher friends, those that run their quantitative studies and are trying to understand the emotions of people, they’ve used that same technology and they’ve found that using this app, or drawing, or doodling just happens to raise two emotions, your joy and your surprise.

So, right there is the delight. This is a screenshot I took directly from their website. I didn’t doctor it. But when I saw it, I was like, “Yes. That is why I’m going to use drawing as my first radical act of delight.”
Now I will give you a pro tip as well. So, how can you incorporate drawing into your everyday facilitated session? And, especially, for folks that are very uncomfortable, they’re new to drawing, it feels like a very professional workplace setting, how can you make that happen?

A pro tip is to combine what they’re more comfortable with, the short words or phrases, with the little drawing. So, have them contribute both, the short word, or phrase, and the drawing to just elaborate more on whatever they’re contributing to the conversation.

Now as a designer, yes, we do drawing all the time. My team draws prototypes, storyboarding, very purposeful drawing to visualize something, but this is them just contributing ideas to the meeting, just contributing to the conversation in a different way using Post-Its and drawing rather than just verbalizing.

Now depending on the contributor, you get all kinds, but at the top right there where you’re seeing the white finger there, she’s describing breaking up work into smaller pieces, and how she would like that work to flow, and be categorized in different ways.

So, you can see that there’s a lot more rich detail that now we can hone in on, ask questions about, and bring into the conversation.

Or my other colleague here with the pink Post-Its here contributed, “Remove logistical red tape.” What does that mean? So, he’s drawn, “Oh, these are specific tools that are impeding me, and there’s actually specific people that are blocking me,” that he considers logistical red tape.

So, there’s more richness to the conversation. And sometimes when you do compare an idea that’s communicated verbally, especially, in workplaces where the jargon flows, some ideas can just fall flat and contributing by drawing just gives it that much more richness and detail to go on.

All right. Without further ado, we are going to move onto our radical act two. This one’s perfect for anticipation, or building anticipation, and then a little surprise.

Now I trust most everyone is here, or most everyone here is familiar with The Wizard of Oz. If you’re not, it’s the sequel to Wicked. But in this movie, in case anyone just isn’t familiar, there’s a character of Scarecrow, and the scarecrow is pointing in a very particular direction.

Dorothy comes in on the yellow brick road, sees the scarecrow pointing that way, something happens, or some distraction, I don’t know, probably with her dog, looks back up, “Well, that’s funny. Wasn’t he pointing the other way?”
And that’s exactly what we’re going to do with our teams. We’re going to set them up towards our goal, towards our purpose, point everything in this direction, and then go this way.

So, I got this idea when I found myself using certain methods often, and I was really leaning in on these methods, leaning on them to do a lot of work, and I … “Why do I keep gravitating towards these particular methods?”

So, I don’t know how familiar you are with these. If you’re not, Tris, which we practice today, pre-mortem, or crapstorm. What all of these have in common is this idea of inverted thinking. So, you’re going towards the opposite.

I actually changed the activity a little bit today, because it was very similar to Karen’s. But, hopefully, that adaptation is even better. So, yeah. If you’re not familiar with this, Tris is a liberating structure. You’re trying to come up with the worst possible outcome. A pre-mortem, I think it comes from Gamestorming. I used it a lot at my design agency. You’re trying to imagine something died, something failed, why did it fail. So, you’re really exploring that failure before you explore success.
And crapstorm is just, “Let’s get all the bad ideas out on the table. Get the bad ideas out,” and it brings in a little bit of silliness. And I think that’s why I was gravitating towards it, because the lightness that it brings in in the beginning, hopefully, carries over when you do go into the direction you want everyone to go into.

It also forces your participants out of their typical cognitive patterns, and if you have participants where there is a strong fear of criticism, or rejection of their ideas, this is a great one to start with. It’s a safer exercise to get started.

All right. So, we’re going to start, and we’re going to do a little twist. We’re a group of facilitators. What is something we can design? Oh, I know. We can design the world’s best meeting. We’re all here. We have so much experience. Let’s do that together.

Let’s design the world’s best meeting. Let’s design the world’s worst meeting. And we’ll go the other way.
This prompt is a little broad. It’s pretty broad, and as experienced facilitators, I think you can hone in on very specific aspects of, “What makes a meeting poor? What makes facilitation poor?” As we already did in the last session.
So, I’ve pulled out some of the nuggets that maybe I’ve heard in the last activity that we did with Karen, and we’re going to explore those in a solo activity to start with.

Okay. So, everyone get your Post-Its and markers ready. I’m going to do the first one with you. I’m going to show you a series of pre-written prompts like what you see above me. And you’re going to answer them. These are inspired by Karen’s session.

Now I already did the twist part. So, you don’t have to twist these. You’re simply going to answer the prompts. Using markers and Post-Its as a solo activity, I’d like you to generate ideas, as many ideas as possible for each prompt, writing one idea per Post-It.

Now, like I said, I’ll do this first one with you. How might we provide unclear communication, and really create that confusion among our participants?

We could whisper the instructions like the Telephone Game, and go around the table until everyone has the clear instructions. We could get really silly, and give directions using whale noises.

All right. So, you get the idea. We’re going to move fast, we’re going to go through four prompts. You’re going to have two minutes per prompt. Again, one idea per sticky.

Are you ready? And away we go.

All right. Moving onto prompt two, ah, oops. How might you avoid conflict, and difficult conversations altogether?
All right. Onto number three. How might you create a space that encourages silence and non-participation? How can you ensure there is no participation?

Okay. Let’s move onto the last one. Cutting this one a little short. How might you ensure your personal opinions influence the group’s decisions?

Okay. What we’re going to do is some table sharing. So, for your table sharing, I want you to look through your pile of ideas. You have so many stickies in front of you. That is a mountain.

And I want you to pick two. Now I want you to pick two of the most twisted ideas, the Cher-worthy ideas, the most audacious that you feel like contributing to your table.

So, once you have your two Post-Its selected, hold them up in your hands, and that signals to your table that you’re ready to share. When everyone at your table has their two up, then you can go ahead and start sharing. We’re going to have about 10 minutes to share at your tables.

Speaker 2:
Across all four questions, or two-

Speaker 1:
You can pick two across all four questions. Great clarity.

Now we’ll probably have time to share more. Just being honest. But I want, at least, two per person. So, everyone has an opportunity to contribute. And when your table is ready, begin.

All right. How was that? It didn’t take long for the laughter. The indicators of delight were there.
Okay. I’m going to twist the cap on this radical act. I want to ensure you’ve been given the opportunity to practice the actual twisting part of taking something, and then what is the opposite prompt?

And so, what we’re going to do to practice that is do you remember the third drawing prompt that I gave you? The challenge, what facilitation challenge are you looking to overcome in 2025?

So, I would like you to take two Post-Its, just two, lay them side-by-side, and we’re going to write our facilitation challenge for 2025.

So, here’s some examples. It could be really simple. Maybe your meetings aren’t starting on time. You want your Zoom participants more engaged. Or something loftier, creating a safe space for experimentation and learning.

Now to twist it, you can twist it any way you want to, but you’re really trying to find what is the opposite of that goal? So, here is the opposite. You can just usually change one word.

Or you can be a little more specific, if there’s a specific maybe aspect you want to change. So, create a safe space for experimentation becomes demonstrate it’s not okay to make mistakes.

This is your goal. You can do as you wish to twist it, but really trying to find what is the opposite of that?

So, I’ll give you not a lot of time, just two minutes, and I want you to write down your goal, and create a twisted version of your goal.

All right. We’re going to move on from the twist. Thank you for playing that. Actually, before we move on, I do want to say the reason that I love the twist is because, and I think I said this earlier, ultimately, when you do move the group towards the direction you want them to go, we went this way, and this created some lightness, it got a little silly, but, well, one, the conversations are more richer, because you can draw on what they learned when they went that way, but also all that lightness, all that trust that you built among the tables carries over into the next exercise.

All right. Let’s move on to creative connections. Now the two Post-Its you have at your table, the twisted opposite version, I don’t care about that anymore, you can throw that away, crumple it up, move it somewhere else, I want you to focus on your facilitation challenge for 2025 for this next activity.

So, creative connections. I first learned about this, or experienced this, in art school. Or maybe from Bob Ross. I don’t know what came first, but the idea of happy accidents. “Oops. I splattered the paint here,” and, “Oh, it’s really cool.”
Like, you can look at something more objectively, and go, “Oh, yeah. I actually want that now.” Or, in my case, I was more graphic. So, I’d be accidentally aligning graphics, and I’d realize I created something way cooler than I ever planned.
And so, that’s what we’re going to practice today, creative connections. It comes from this concept of lateral thinking. I Googled lateral thinking, I read a lot of descriptions of lateral thinking. It’s a hard concept to understand.

The easiest way that I found explaining this to my team was explaining a person digging. So, if you imagine … And, again, it’s the difference between … So, lateral thinking versus logical thinking is if you imagine someone digging a hole, they’re using their logical brain, and they’re connecting ideas that are very closely connected in their brain. It’s taking the shortest neuropathway. They’re things that already go together and make sense. And they’re digging that hole deeper, and deeper, and deeper.

Now lateral thinking is choosing not to dig deeper. Choosing to dig over here, and see what comes up, and then choosing to dig over here, and see what comes up.

Our brain doesn’t like to do that. It’s illogical. They’re not as closely connected in our brain. So, we have to coax it to do that, to make these connections that don’t typically go together.

And so, one of the ways we’re going to do that is … Oh, let me tell you an example I did with my team. This was fun. We used Tarot connections.

Speaker 3:
Yes.

Speaker 1:
Picking Tarot cards, and, again, this wasn’t just for ideation. This was just a team conversation around team dynamics, and issues that came up. But we used Tarot. There’s a GPT Tarot AI reader.

And you can even input the subject matter you’re talking about, and you get a pretty good reading on the Tarot card you drew, and the subject matter. And we use that as inspiration. It started different conversations. We thought about different areas we maybe never would have taken the conversation down before.

We are going to practice this today. Not with Tarot. Sorry to disappoint. Not with Tarot, or not using GPT AI. Instead, we’re going to use metaphor cards. And I have these at your tables in envelopes. These metaphor cards vary. Some are nouns, are some, like, professional roles, some are actions, all sorts of random metaphors.

And we’re going to help, we’re going to use these metaphors to help solve our challenge, your facilitation challenge that you have in front of you today.

So, you all have your personal facilitation challenge. What you’re going to do is take that challenge, and try and relate it to one of the metaphors, these random metaphors that you’re going to select. And you’re going to allow that.
Each metaphor card does have a little bit of a description. So, if you aren’t familiar with that thing, you can use that to help guide you in understanding what that metaphor card is, or you don’t even have to use it. Maybe you have your own ideas about what taking care of plants means to you.

Not only will we write our idea, we’re going to draw our idea too. We’re going back to drawing. Now the first time I saw this, the first time I was truly stunned actually by using metaphor cards, I was working with a nonprofit, and the CEO, or founder of the nonprofit, she was having trouble with her training program, just a heavy subject matter, post-partum depression, and wanted to just rebuild her training program, knew there was a problem there. So, that was her challenge.
And she drew a metaphor card, and got taking care of plants. And it was really amazing to watch her work, and explain this, but she pulled the metaphor card, and she came up with an idea.

She drew three potted plants, one little potted plant with a sprout, a medium potted plant that just needed some watering, and some maintenance, and then a bigger potted plant that needed pruning, or something.
And her idea was these levels of training. “Oh, well, we’re going to start with this really simple foundation training just like when you’re potting a plant, and you need to add the soil, and prepare the groundwork to get it to grow.” And then you know what? “We need a regular maintenance training. So, that we can bring in all the new information that we’ve learned recently, and really reinforce these ideas.”

And so, that’s, like, just watering a plant weekly. But then every so often, about once a year, we need a big reset. Things change within the organization, so, just like repotting a plant, we’re going to have that big reset training.
And just like that, she just rattled off her new training program inspired by this metaphor. And I was just like, “Who are you? Did you have this idea before?” “No. I just thought of it from this metaphor card.”

So, it’s pretty fascinating. Now not every idea is going to be a winner, and that is the point. So, we’re going to go through some rounds where you’re going to be able to choose different metaphors to help inspire your idea.
All right. Are you ready? So, we’re going to set it up like this. You have your challenge next to you. Now I’d like you to take your metaphor cards, and spread them out into the middle of the table. Like, a goldfish pond. Cards face-down. So, everybody can just choose one. Like, a goldfish pond.

All right. Everyone, choose your first metaphor.
All right. Now with your first metaphor, you’re going to use it to come up with an idea to solve your facilitation challenge. You will write your idea on a Post-It, but you will also draw it.

All right. We’re going to go pretty fast here. You’re going to get two minutes for a prompt. Your first two minutes starts now.
All right, everyone. Pass your card to the left. Pass it to the left.

And your two minutes on this new metaphor starts now.
Okay. Two minutes is up on that idea. For your next one, pass your card to the left.

Okay. Wrapping up this round, we’re going to do one more round of this. For this one, throw your cards back in that fishpond, and go fish. Pick any card you want, any card you want, and this will be your last round.

Okay. Pencils down, drawings down. Let’s debrief a little bit. I’m so interested to learn a little bit about your ideas, and, well, your facilitation challenge first of all, and then how these metaphor cards inspired a creative idea.

Were any of these ideas unexpected? Hopefully. Anybody have any click moments, or ahas?

Speaker 4:
Over here.

Speaker 1:
Yes. If you are compelled to share one idea, raise your hand.

Speaker 5:
First of all, I’d like to say, “Thanks, Skye, I appreciate that.” Putting me on blast over here. I did exclaim in the middle of this, I was like, “Oh, shit.”

I’m a notorious hater of cards. I think they’re weak and lazy. And so, I was coming into this with like, “Man, what is this nonsense?” To be fair, you’ve been the best of the whole thing, by the way, but this exercise. And your stupid-ass cards gave me, like, four ideas that I did not think I could generate.

And also I thought my problem was similar to others, which is facilitation I think is undervalued. It’s, like, where the magic is, but you get paid more for strategy, and reports, and all this. And I saw other people say that.
And so, I was like, “There’s no way this is going to work for that challenge.” And it seemed to have generated some things I didn’t think I could do. So, thank you very much.

Speaker 1:
Awesome. Very cool. Thank you.

Speaker 6:
So, my challenge was … Is this on? Oh, my challenge was pretty generic, full sessions of engaged people. And the different cards helped me break out of the container that I thought sessions needed to be in to think differently about what is the user looking for? Because the cards were all about giving the user more agency over how they interacted with a thing.
And it was a real good flip for me in thinking about just what does a session mean even?

Speaker 1:
Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Right behind you.

Speaker 7:
The Duolingo app helped me think about actually gamifying my client’s pathway through what I’m offering them. I’m really resistant to structure, and I want to play and be in the creative divergent space. And so, actually gamifying it, like, having a Candy Land-like thing that they move through is something that I’m going to do.

And then I want to mention the alarm clock. Convergence excellence, like, excellence in convergence thinking is something I want to embody this year. And I’m just going to set an alarm halfway through the session as my convergence alarm-

Speaker 1:
[inaudible 00:42:35].

Speaker 7:
… and it’s like, “Hey. It’s time to start whittling down. We need to get out of idea land, and put some stuff on paper.”

Speaker 1:
Great. Awesome.

Speaker 7:
There you go.

Speaker 8:
I love this, because I’ve done creative problem solving force connections, which is a group … Or it can be a group, or individual activity, but there are not all these prompts.

And what I really appreciated about the three different prompts is I didn’t take it at face value and go in a convergent kind of thinking. This created divergent thinking for me to get me into a different frame of mind rather than simply a, like, “Let’s play.” It was, “Let’s play and …”

Speaker 1:
Okay. Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker 9:
I really like this too, because sometimes you need something sticky to get people excited. So, that they remember, and so forth. By using this metaphor, you can frame it at the beginning of the workshop, and they can visually see like, “We’re going to start with a lot of little baby ideas, and then get bigger, and then weed, and then really come up with these big ideas.”

It’s just something to visualize. Like, the different sections of a workshop potentially.

Speaker 1:
Thank you for sharing.

Speaker 10:
I’m stuck in the messy middle. Over here on your right.

Speaker 1:
Messy middle? Okay.

Speaker 10:
My problem is making more clearer lasting decisions in an executive leadership forum. And my anti-pattern is just talk and don’t make decisions, and we’re stuck there right now.

What was interesting with the cards was I was trying to map … Like, I had a beehive, and I had a sandcastle, and a couple of others, and it was interesting to try to figure out, “Well, what is what?” Between the metaphor and my problem space. Like, in the sandcastle case, I was like, “Well, okay. Maybe the decision is the sandcastle,” which was a natural conclusion.
But then I’m like, “Oh, but then destruction.” So, the ocean taking it away is actually the communication, and the rollout, and all that. So, that was an interesting decomposition.

For beehive, I’m like, “I’m not sure.” I happen to be a beekeeper. So, I’m way biased on this one. I’m like, “Who are the drones and who are the queen …” But it was just interesting to try to use the idea spaces and the metaphor to map them to the problem space, because that brought in a whole bunch of other things I didn’t think about in the problem space. So, helpful.

Speaker 1:
Great. Thank you. And I use this as a solo activity. Primarily, because this is your challenge, and you’ve very familiar with it already. This is much more successful, if you can really understand the problem space. At least, in my experience.
And so, if I had you all just do one problem you weren’t as bought in on, or had the background knowledge, the ideas would have been a little flatter.
I think we had … Right there.

Speaker 11:
The metaphor helped me, I guess, because, visually, I was able to come up with specific behaviors related to that metaphor. And I’ll give you an example.

Speaker 1:
Okay.

Speaker 11:
Like, one of my cards was Uber ride-sharing app. And something on the card prompted me to write, “Request on demand.” And it was like, “Hello. I need a website.” Like, “How would people even ask me to facilitate something if they don’t know where to reach me?”

So, it was, like, that’s a very specific behavior, and then it might even lead to more behaviors I could do to get closer to that. So, I like the metaphor. It’s, like, it took the onus off me being the creative thinker, and just letting me think through the lens of Uber, “What are they doing that is replicable?”

Speaker 1:
I like that perspective. A couple more or … Whoever.

Speaker 12:
I got one over here. I, specifically, really liked drawing the pieces, because it shifts your mindset. I think if I were to do it again, I would almost draw it first, and then start putting words to it, because I think that takes your brain to a different space.

And, yeah. It helped me get to some solutions here, specifically, with the beehive, and the different compartments that are within it.

Speaker 1:
Awesome. Yeah. I agree with you there about the drawing. Yes.

Speaker 13:
They should have pushed-

Speaker 14:
I guess my question is how do you create these-

Speaker 1:
Yeah.

Speaker 14:
… prompts?

Speaker 1:
Yeah.

Speaker 14:
Because they’re very valuable clearly.

Speaker 1:
Well, I stole some of them. Yeah. I don’t know. Through participating in, I don’t know, Design-A-Thons, and things like that, there’s a couple of them I remembered, and then I just took the themes like, “Oh, this is an app. What are some other apps people are familiar with that are unique?”

So, then I created more, or, “This is a role or a job.” I also sometimes use ChatGPT. “Come up with prompts.” Usually, they’re very generic, and I have to edit a lot but …
Yes. In the back.

Speaker 15:
So, I’m going to try and connect three talks together. So, bear with me as I try and land this triple axel. So, I started off with a fear from Skye’s talk, which is my goal, what I want to tackle in 2025 is confidently leading a session without my more senior team members there. I can lead a session within there, fine, but I get nervous if I’m the most senior person in the room.

And so, linking it to the museum habit, or the museum card, I was thinking about the only way that I’ve been able to establish a habit for working out is by taking a picture every time I do it, and that’s, like, the museum.
And so, I’m thinking with this, “What if I had this area of all of the places where I’ve gotten nice feedback on my facilitation?” So, that, number one, I can show that to clients, and, number two, I can show myself evidence that I am actually a competent facilitator.

And just because the senior people aren’t there doesn’t mean they’re gone.

Speaker 1:
Love that. Love that. Thank you. All right. We are going to wrap up there. Thank you, everybody.
So, in closing, and as you practice these delight-ers, I started with something easy, drawing, and then moved it into some more advanced ones like the twist, or the metaphors.

But I want you to think about how these can be applied to any of your facilitated sessions. It doesn’t have to just be even for idea generation.

Now I want to leave you with this, thank you for showing up to delight your participants, especially, when it feels like there’s a lot of separation and conflict. What you’re doing to bring people together, lift them up, that is truly a radical act.

Thank you.

JJ’s Radical Acts of Delight offered powerful tools for facilitators to make their sessions more engaging and memorable. Whether you’re designing a workshop, meeting, or retreat, his approach to creating delight will help you foster a more dynamic and participatory experience for all.

The post Radical Acts of Delight appeared first on Voltage Control.

We’ve all had that moment—sitting in front of a prompt box, wondering if we’re “doing it right.” With AI tools at our fingertips, the temptation is to treat them like vending machines: input a request, wait for a satisfying output, move on. But what if we’re missing the bigger opportunity? What if these tools weren’t just utilities, but actual teammates in our collaborative process?

When we proposed a workshop for South by Southwest, we knew we didn’t want to stick to surface-level tips or demos. The organizers challenged us to go deeper—beyond the AI hype and toward something more transformative. And so, we leaned into a question that’s becoming central to our practice: What does it look like to truly collaborate with AI? Not just one-on-one, but as part of a team—many-to-many, in real time, across disciplines.

This was the genesis of our “AI Teammates” workshop. Drawing from tried-and-true facilitation techniques, we reimagined AI as a participant in the room. From the very start, we wanted to shift how people perceive their relationship with these tools. It’s not about asking better questions—it’s about asking better questions together.

The results were electric. People didn’t just learn—they transformed how they thought about AI. They saw themselves not just as users, but as facilitators of AI conversations. They began to glimpse a future where AI isn’t separate from our teams, but embedded within them.

Reimagining AI Through Personas

To help people enter this new headspace, we began with something deceptively simple: a set of AI persona tarot cards. These weren’t just warmups—they were intention-setting tools, designed to spark self-awareness and curiosity. Participants drew cards representing different AI roles: the Challenger, the Historian, the Synthesizer, and the Optimist. Each represented a style of interaction and insight.

From there, we asked them to reflect on the following: Which persona reflects how you currently use AI? The answers served as mirrors, revealing habits and blind spots. Some noticed their go-to AI interactions leaned heavily into optimism, while others hadn’t thought to use the AI as a Challenger or a Historian. The room started to buzz—not just with conversation, but with realization.

This exercise wasn’t just about introspection. It created a shared language for teams to explore how they engaged with AI. Suddenly, AI wasn’t a black box or a mystery. It had personality. It had range. It could wear different hats depending on what the team needed.

And here’s the kicker: People started seeing their own biases and styles more clearly through how they prompted the AI. They also began considering what perspectives were missing. In a team stacked with Optimists, who’s playing the role of Devil’s Advocate? That insight alone sparked new dynamics in the way teams used AI throughout the rest of the workshop.

Prompting as a Team Sport

Once personas were in play, the real fun began. We invited participants to explore a real-world organizational challenge through the lens of their AI teammate. What happens when you tackle a problem with a Challenger AI? How does the response shift when your AI wears the Historian’s hat?

We watched as teams began tweaking their prompts—not just once, but iteratively. “Let me try that from the Synthesizer’s angle,” one participant said. Another team noticed their initial question had been too narrow and asked, “What would an Optimist say if they were trying to pitch this idea to a skeptical executive?”

This prompted a new layer of collaboration—not just between human and AI, but between teammates. People began co-designing prompts, inspired by each other’s strategies and observations. Some even started using different AI platforms (ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity) and feeding responses into a shared Miro board, where the ideas could be synthesized and built upon collectively.

This iterative cycle—prompt, reflect, remix—became the heartbeat of the session. It wasn’t about finding the “right” question. It was about evolving the conversation in response to the group’s curiosity. And that, more than any technical breakthrough, is the mindset shift we’re after when we talk about AI teaming.

Bringing AI into the Room—Literally

Most people think of AI as a tool you consult before or after a meeting. But what if you could bring AI into the room in real-time? In the second half of the workshop, we pushed participants to imagine AI not just as a participant, but as a co-facilitator.

Here’s how it worked: We gave them a live meeting scenario—something going off the rails—and asked them to prompt the AI for in-the-moment facilitation help. Not “What’s a good agenda?” but “What should we do for the next 15 minutes to bring this meeting back on track based on our original purpose?”

The responses were surprising, creative, and sometimes hilariously off-base—which made for rich team discussions. But what mattered most was the shift. Teams were engaging with the AI in the moment, treating it not as a scribe or planner, but as a facilitator. They were inviting the AI into real-time problem-solving—just like they would with any other team member.

And because each participant had a different persona in mind, the diversity of responses grew exponentially. One team’s Challenger AI might poke holes in a proposed solution while another’s Synthesizer AI tried to weave together contrasting ideas. And all of this was visible in real-time on the Miro board, where teams could compare notes, build on each other’s work, and generate collective insights.

The Power of Group Sensemaking

As the teams worked, something incredible started to happen: collective intelligence took center stage. The room became a living organism—AI prompts feeding human insight, which then sparked new prompts, which then seeded even richer responses.

This wasn’t just about AI being smart. It was about humans working smarter with AI. People were teaming not just with AI, but with each other—through AI. It was a case study in group sensemaking, powered by diverse perspectives and iterative prompts.

At one point, we noticed teams prompting with an eye toward others’ personas. “I’m usually an Optimist, but let me try this like a Historian.” That cross-pollination of thinking styles is hard enough with human teammates. Seeing it happen with AI added an entirely new dimension.

We even saw people assigning different roles to different AI platforms—using NotebookLM for document summarization, ChatGPT for brainstorming, and image generators for visual exploration. It was like assembling a team of AI specialists, each with a job to do. And the team—the human team—was coordinating it all in real-time.

From SME to Creative Collaborator

In the final phase of the workshop, we introduced a new prompt: What if AI could serve as a Subject Matter Expert (SME)? We gave teams common roles like product manager, designer, or engineer, and asked them to prompt AI to identify what perspectives were missing from their project.

The results were astounding. Participants uncovered blind spots they hadn’t considered. Some even had visceral reactions—one participant who worked in AI said they had goosebumps thinking about how their tools might evolve. AI wasn’t just helping solve problems. It was helping reframe them.

We also played with advanced tools like Miro Sidekicks, which allowed us to synthesize insights from participants’ sticky notes in real-time. We ended with a classic facilitation activity: “I used to think… now I think.” Participants entered their reflections into the board, and Sidekicks turned them into key themes and next steps.

This real-time group reflection—facilitated by both human and AI—offered a powerful closing moment. Teams could see not just how their thinking had changed, but how collective reflection with AI could accelerate learning, deepen insight, and spark new directions.

Using AI to Expand Classic Facilitation Exercises

One surprising outcome of this workshop was discovering how AI could enhance exercises we’ve been using for years. Take the brand takeover activity. Traditionally, we’d assign groups a brand like Nike, Disney, or Chanel, and ask them how that brand might solve their current problem.

Now, using AI, even a team of three can get rich results. Ask AI to roleplay as a Nike strategist and boom—philosophies, playbooks, tone, and style all pop into view. Then ask AI to roleplay Apple, and suddenly you’re switching lenses with ease.

This not only accelerates the activity—it enriches it. Teams can prompt AI to generate visuals, slogans, or mock ads. And even if the outputs are flawed (hello, six-fingered hands), they often spark brilliant ideas. The hallucinations become a feature, not a bug.

Better still, you can have AI personas debate each other. What would Nike and Disney build together? What if Chanel redesigned a Nike product? This “AI team of teams” idea turns solo brainstorming into a rich, multi-perspective dialogue—and invites facilitators to orchestrate that dialogue like a symphony.

Closing: The Future Is Teaming

We ended our workshop—and this reflection—with a simple idea: the more we treat AI like a teammate, the more value we get. Not by anthropomorphizing the tool, but by engaging with it collaboratively, curiously, and creatively.

Whether you’re prompting pre-meeting, mid-discussion, or during synthesis, your mindset matters. Are you just asking for answers? Or are you asking AI to think with you, alongside others? When we shift from one-to-one use to many-to-many collaboration, we tap into AI’s potential as a real force multiplier.

So here’s your call to action: Start small. Give your AI a role. Try a persona prompt. Run a brand takeover with your team and invite AI into the process. Use tools like Miro Sidekicks to synthesize group thinking. Play, reflect, remix. Because the future isn’t just about using AI.

It’s about teaming with it.

The post From Tool to Teammate appeared first on Voltage Control.

At the 2025 Facilitation Lab Summit, Skye Idehen-Osunde led an empowering session titled Building Trust and Credibility: Creating Psychological Safety in Facilitation. Known for her dynamic approach and expertise in fostering inclusive spaces, Skye’s session captivated attendees and offered practical insights into facilitating with authority and authenticity.

Skye began by energizing the room with a fun icebreaker, inviting everyone to stand up and move to the beat of a song. The lighthearted activity set a positive tone for the session and got participants engaged right from the start. Once the group was warmed up, Skye introduced the session’s main theme: how facilitators can build psychological safety and credibility within any group they lead.

With a focus on practical techniques, Skye guided participants through strategies to create spaces where everyone feels seen, heard, and respected. She emphasized the importance of being vulnerable and authentic as a facilitator—acknowledging when you don’t have all the answers and ensuring the room feels safe for all perspectives.

Skye’s session was rooted in the idea that credibility and psychological safety go hand in hand. She shared her personal experiences with pop-up rules, ground rules established at the beginning of a session to foster openness and trust. These simple agreements, she explained, create a foundation for vulnerability, inclusion, and active participation.

Throughout the session, Skye led participants in several interactive activities that demonstrated these principles. One of the most engaging activities, Likes and Dislikes, asked attendees to find someone from a different table, share something personal, and connect over their mutual interests. This low-stakes interaction not only helped people break the ice but also established the kind of environment where vulnerability and connection could thrive.

Skye also stressed the need for facilitators to be mindful of the group’s energy and to adjust their approach when necessary. Whether working with internal or external groups, facilitators must understand the dynamics at play and ensure that everyone feels empowered to speak up, especially when difficult or sensitive topics arise.

A powerful moment of the session involved an exercise where participants reflected on their own fears and insecurities as facilitators. Skye encouraged the group to write down their fears and then symbolically “toss” them away. This activity not only allowed individuals to acknowledge their concerns but also served as a reminder that facilitators must continually work to release these fears in order to show up as their best selves.

The session concluded with a Safety Net Pledge, where participants made a collective commitment to uphold psychological safety and credibility in their own work. Skye reinforced the idea that building safety is an ongoing process that requires reflection, adaptation, and a willingness to grow.

Skye’s session offered invaluable tools and insights for facilitators at any level. Her dynamic energy, combined with practical strategies for building trust and safety, left attendees with a deep understanding of how to create environments where everyone can thrive.

Watch the full video below:

Transcript of Skye’s Session:

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Thank you all. So I need everybody to stand up. Because it’s day one, I need you to do a little dance. Raise the roof. Do what you got to do. Let’s go. Y’all know this song, right? I feel like I need more energy. What’s your name? Danny? Danny. Come here, Danny. Danny… Danny… There you go. Oh. Oh, you out dancing me, Danny? I love it. All right. Thank you all for humoring me. Thank you, Steven. Give a round of applause to the DJ. Thank you all so much.

Again, my name is Skye Idehen-Osunde. I’ll be on stage, I’ll be down here, I’ll be walking throughout the crowd. But I’m so excited to be here tonight really talking about the safety net, what it means to build psychological safety and credibility as a facilitator. Anyone need that? A lot of us are internal facilitators. Some of us are external facilitators and consultants. And so there needs to be an air of what it means to walk in this space with authority and own it. Okay? So that’s what we’re going to talk about today.

One of the things I want to be able to do is just give you an opportunity to get to know folks at your table and in the space. And so we’ll be doing a lot of interactive activities. And so I would want us to kick off with an opener, which I like to call likes and dislikes. And what I would love for you to do is I want you to get up and find someone at a different table, because you’re going to be at your table a lot. All day, right? So I want you to be able to interact and get to know someone else in this space. It might also help with your bingo card, like take notes, [inaudible 00:01:49]. But I want you to just introduce yourself, your name, your current role, what you’re doing, what brought you here, and what you’re hoping to get out of the session. And one thing I want you to share is with one like and one dislike. So an example, which I’ll share in the next slide when we come back is one of my likes, I really love anime.

Lily:
Hey.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Sailor Moon is my jam. Okay? Inuyasha? Come on, we’ll talk about it. So I love anime. That’s one of the things I love that you would just not assume to me. I’ve been to Comic Con, like I just love anime, okay? And one of my dislikes is, has anyone heard of trypophobia? What’s your name?

Lily:
Lily.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Lily. What is that?

Lily:
[inaudible 00:02:38].

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Trypophobia. That’s a fear of holes, clusters. Anyone look at like an ant pile or honeycomb or speckle on the ceiling and you get goosebumps and immediately you have stop looking at it? Yeah, that’s me. That’s me. So that’s one thing I just don’t like, a lot of clusters of things. It’s just not my thing. So what I want you to do is I want you to go ahead and stand up and find someone in a different part of the room and go ahead and follow the prompts. You’ll have five minutes.

I’d love to hear one or two pairs. What’s one thing you learned about the person you just met? Who would like to share?

EJ  Peterschick:
EJ  Peterschick from the Seattle area. I got the joy of talking to Tamara from the county area, Arizona. We were talking about, as Eric alluded to, the need for this skill set in the world more than ever, and by many names. And so we were actually talking about ways that you can bring your acumen and room facilitation to the political space and maybe being a trusted advisor, consultant to people in that sphere. You don’t necessarily have to do everything, but we have the skill. So I’m pretty excited to see where Tamara is going to go with it.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Alright. [inaudible 00:04:15] Tamara’s way. [inaudible 00:04:15] Yeah, clap it up. Clap it up. Thank you for sharing. Do we have another pair? Yes. Galen, right?

Galen:
Galen.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Galen. Heywood?

Galen:
Heygood.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Heygood. Hey, good.

Galen:
So we got Annie Love there. So Annie’s loves with Annie Love. And I thought it was an interesting contrast. The thing that she loves to do is climb mountains and go to great heights. And you know those kind of people are ultra aggressive. No losing, not on my watch, but yet the things she came to this conference for was to become a better listener, so I think that’s [inaudible 00:04:52].

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Wonderful. Thank you for sharing. All right, so again, we want to continue building connections, getting to know each other, utilizing the bingo cards to use that as a breaker to engage in conversation. And so we’re asking for you to be open to that through our time together today. A little bit about me. My name is Skye. I do facilitation in my business that I’ve had for four years. I love what I do. I tend to work around creating psychologically safe spaces and ensuring that everyone that I interact with feel heard, valued, and celebrated. I’ve worked with a lot of great companies, lots of corporate, lots of non-profit. And so, one of the things I love about facilitation is that I don’t necessarily need to be the expert at the company or the work, but I need to be an expert at what it needs to bring teams together to make sure that people feel safe and heard and valued in interactions with me coming in as an external facilitator.

Some of the things again that I like, dislike, and get to be a part of the conversation is I love food, obviously. I love to travel. So if anyone’s looking for wish fairy, like the cheapest way to travel anywhere, come find me to work for a travel startup. I love community and my faith is really the foundation of everything I do. Dislikes, I don’t like anything from the sea. Okay? Don’t ask me if I like shrimp. Don’t ask me if I eat sushi. No, none of the above. Okay? Again, honeycombs, butterflies, birds, anything that flutters, we need a separate place. Just don’t let it be around me. Okay? You’re going to see me doing a little dip and a dive if I see birds or anything coming towards me. Okay?

So on today’s journey, we’re going to go ahead and talk about what it means to really create a safe space. So we’re going to talk about the importance and the purpose of pop-up rules. We’re going to talk about what it means to define psychological safety. We’re going to talk about what the safety net is and how credibility intertwines in all of that. And then we’re all going to end with a safety net pledge. Sound good?

All right, so pop-up rules are really an opportunity to create a safe space in a short, intentional way. And so I can create a pop-up for this particular session. You can have pop-up or ground rules or agreements for the day. And so for this particular session, I really want us to be in alignment and on the same page of being fully present. I know we’re using phones, all of that, but you need take a call, step out, no checking in on baby boy in the middle of the session. So really trying to be as present as possible, respecting all the voices and all perspectives. Really this idea, I don’t know if folks are on social media, this idea of listen and we don’t judge, right? So this is a no-judgment zone. So again, being open to hearing all those perspectives and when you’re hearing different perspectives and different voices, making sure that we’re not judging.
Vulnerability is the new cool. I love it. I love when people are able to be their most authentic selves. Going into, leaning authentically into this session and our time together. If you don’t know something, say you don’t know it. I’m a facilitator. If you ask me something I don’t know, I’m going to be like, “That’s a great question. I don’t have the answer for that, but I will follow up with you.” And so sometimes it’s really important for us to really be vulnerable and be transparent and lean into that fully. And then SpongeBob “facilitator” Pants. Okay? So just be sponge, just soak it in. Okay? I wish I had a SpongeBob outfit. I would’ve really put it on for this presentation, but I didn’t think it was appropriate. So that’s why I wore yellow. See what I did there?

All right. So are there any other pop-up rules that you feel like could be included or that you would utilize in spaces where you’re facilitating? Is it Lily?

Lily:
Lily?

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Lily. Go for it.

Lily:
I’d like to add to the we listen and we don’t judge self-editing. So don’t judge yourself, like come authentic, come vulnerable. Don’t edit what you’re going to say if you perceive you’ll be judges.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Yeah, that’s good. Can we snap to that? Because I think sometimes as facilitators, we are so much in our heads that maybe in the middle of a session we might’ve said the wrong thing or that phrase didn’t come out correctly or your slides messed up and you’re like in your head trying to be present and you’re like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe I made that mistake.” And you’re hearing that talk throughout your time. And so we want to make sure that we’re releasing that and that we’re leaning into it is okay to make mistakes. It is okay to show humanity and humility in the way you show up as a presenter. That’s how you connect. That aids in how you are building credibility.

All right, so as we look at this really blurry picture, what do you see here? What do you see here? Look really close. If you squint your eyes, you could see it. What do you see here? Just shout it out. Frustration.

Audience member:
Chaos.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Chaos. Conflict.

Audience member:
Out of focus.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Out of focus. Look, you see what I did there? I didn’t do that on purpose, but I see how you came and saved me there. Thank you.

Speaker 6:
Angst.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Angst. Tell me about angst.

Speaker 6:
I’m looking at that guy in the back there. He looks miserable. Just not having a good time, not enjoying the time with this group.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Just angst. If you look at it really closely, it kind of looks like Eric. I did that on purpose too. I saw the picture, I said, “That’s the one.” What else are we seeing?

Audience member:
Laptop. Stand still.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Laptop. Stand still. Unengaged.

Audience member:
Unused sticky notes.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Unused sticky notes. Overuse of sticky notes, right? What’d I hear?

Audience member:
No facilitator.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
No facilitator.

Audience member:
No eye contact.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
No eye contact.

Galen:
This is what it looked like after we traded Luca Dungeon.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
I love it. So there’s a lot that we’re seeing in this, right? So as facilitators, in order for us to really come into a space and be credible and to create a safe space, we need to be able to really understand and curate what that space and energy feels like. We need to come in with our toolkit, which we’ll do a few activities today to prepare you for what that looks like so we never get to a space like this. Because how deflating is it as a facilitator to look at a group and they’re completely unengaged or they’re not really paying attention or they’re feeling the chaos in the space?

It’s not a good feeling. And then it goes back to that negative talk in life, the self-defeating feeling of like, I’m not meeting the expectations and I’m not getting closer to the outcome that I came here for. And so we want to move to a space, again, think of this as being blurry of, again, there’s engagement, there’s joy. Going what Eric said, we want joy in this space. What are some other things you see in this?

Audience member:
Shared ideas.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Sticky notes.

Audience member:
Shared ideas.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Shared ideas.

Audience member:
Feels effective. They’re listening to each other.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Effective. Effective listening. Listening to each other.

Audience member:
Smiling.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Say it again?

Audience member:
Smiling.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Smiling.

Audience member:
Eye contact.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Eye contact, right?

Audience member:
One conversation.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
One conversation. Collaboration. I heard that in the back. And so when we’re effective at creating this safe space, when we’re effective as coming in as the expert and being very credible and making sure that we’re connecting with people in the room, and we come in with a plan and a structure of what we’re doing, how we’re doing it, and how we’re going to move the group towards their outcome, you get this. Right? And so we have to come in prepared. And so we’ll talk a little bit more about why it’s required to really understand what it means to bring in the safety net. So I want to bring up, I don’t know if anyone’s seen the session labs report of facilitation. Anyone’s seen that? It’s really good.

Since I was one of the thousand people who participated in it because I just love facilitation, and the research in that is really good. So if you have not seen the session last stated facilitation report, it just came out within the week. Feel free to look at that. So as Brene Brown says, “Who we are is how we lead.” Who we are is how we lead. And it says, “I would stretch it further to say who we are is how we facilitate.” So I don’t want to get in the weeds because I also do a lot of diversity, equity and inclusion, facilitation, but how we show up a hundred percent dictates on how the room moves. So what are we bringing in? What are the biases that we’re checking at the door? What is the knowledge that we’re bringing into this space? How are we holding folks accountable to harmful behavior? It really boils down to how we operate outside of that facilitative space.
And so we want to make sure that we’re doing everything in our power to be reflective, to be self-aware, to really understand our triggers as facilitators, what are those sticky topics that you’re just fearful of or you don’t feel as comfortable with?

Really being very in tune to what that is then gives you an opportunity to then prepare for that. So what are your kryptonites? And really understanding that gives you the opportunity to then turn them into superpowers. And so you need to really understand who you are as an individual. You shape the space. As an external facilitator, internal facilitator, they’re looking to you for direction. And so when we think about that, we have to really have an understanding of what psychological safety is. So psychological safety at its core is really a shared belief that we’re creating a safe space, that we’re making sure people feel seen, valued, and heard.

And we’re doing it without judgment. We’re creating space for risk-taking, take pictures, do all the things you need to do, but we’re doing it without this air of embarrassment or fair. People at its core, when we’re bringing groups together, it’s a really special opportunity. I’ve always said this. When you go home to your dinner tables, when you go home to family holidays, gatherings, you’re likely not having really diverse conversations. And so when you have an opportunity to be in workspaces or in opportunities like this where you’re voluntarily coming in, it gives you an opportunity to stretch, to practice, to understand and hear different perspectives. And so the more you’re able to place yourself in these spaces, the more you’re going to be able to pick up the tools necessary to then inherently create those psychologically safe spaces. But again, it starts with you. If you’re not a safe person, you’re not going to be able to create a safe space. Okay?

So here’s some information on why it’s impactful. So 26% of employees feel safe to take risk without fear. Only 26%. It’s like one in four. So I want you to put yourself in this in your spaces, maybe where you’ve worked before, organizations you’ve been a part of, right? There’s probably been some hesitancy. I mean, it’s 2025, let’s be real. Woo, right? So we’re probably in spaces right now where we’re not really fully comfortable speaking up or speaking out or saying anything. We’re just kind of in observation mode right now. But there’s some people that perpetually stay in that. And so how do we reach those individuals to make sure that they feel safe enough to take risks and to have conversations or to ask the questions that they want to ask without fear of judgment.

76% of organizations have higher psychological safety and they see an increase in engagement. So that’s really important. If I feel like I belong in my organization or my team, or I’m an external facilitator and I’m creating a safe space where people are excited to just walk into the room and they’re like, “Ooh, I like this energy. I’m putting myself down. I’m fully engaged in this person,” they’re likely going to be more engaged. And so the more we can lean into that psychological safety, the easier it’s going to be for us to then show up as credible and as the leader or the expert or the authority figure in that space in that setting. Anybody got $1.6 billion in their account? I wish I did. But fear of speaking up. When we’re thinking about bottom line, when you’re going to your organizations and where you’re going to your teams, if revenue is everything, right?
Businesses will not survive without people and without the product or the service. And so if there are moments where we’re not coming together in collaborative ways where we’re talking and dialing into the bottom line, nothing is going to change. We’re going to risk losing profit and this is, again, data that shows that. So where does credibility come into play? Where does credibility come into play? I have a question. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Yes. What came first? The chicken? You sure? You sure? Well, what if the egg came first, right? It is a question. We don’t really need an answer, but it’s really this idea that they’re interwoven. It doesn’t really matter what came first. It’s the fact that you need both, whether you’re internal or external.

And so what I would love for us to do is I want you to be able to talk at your table, amongst your table. I want you to be able to think about your role, right? Show of hands, how many people work in corporations, organizations? Just so I know. Okay. How many folks are consultants? Cool, cool. How many people are kind of like, “I’m trying to figure it out”? Okay. All right. Anybody just start consulting? Okay. Clap it up.

Okay, anybody get a promotion to do more facilitation at work? Okay, clap it up. We got to go both sides, right? But what I want you to do is I want you to have table talk, and I again, want you to have toolkits that you can utilize. And so a lot of these activities that I’m going to do, I’m going to give you alternatives. And so you’re able to maybe do a 1-2-4-All structure or a TRIZ, which is a liberating structure. I don’t know if folks who know that, but a 1-2-4-All is that you have solo time, paired time, and four people kind of go into a small group. And then you have group discussion, and that’s timed. And that allows for diverse perspectives. It gives you time to have some solo thoughts. So you’re going to the group prepared with some ideas. And TRIZ really talks about this idea of what’s the worst possible thing that you can do as a facilitator to hinder psychological safety?

So it’s like you could be talking to me and be like, “Hey, stop talking.” I’m like, oh my God, no one else is going to talk after that. That’s like the worst thing you can do as a facilitator. So those are some examples of things you can do. But for our time together right now, I’d love for you to take about a minute to really do some self-reflection of what are some small actions you can take to strengthen psychological safety while also building credibility in your work, in your role. What are some things that you can do that you want to do, you have a desire to do in your role? And while we do that, Steven’s going to play a little light music, and then we’re going to transition into table discussion for about four minutes. So I’ll let you know when we transition for that. Okay? So your minute starts now.

So I would love to hear from a few tables on maybe what’s one thing that came up in discussion? Who would like to share? I’d love to hear from one of the back tables. Or the front, depending on where you’re standing. Yeah?

Harry:
I’ll give one example that was pretty interesting.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
What’s your name?

Harry:
Oh, my name is Harry.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Harry. All right.

Harry:
One thing that was really interesting was the idea of, I think it was bringing metaphors into the play of describing things in ways that people can relate to really easily. So it was asking if we were to look at our challenge currently as a diamond and be able to flip our perspective, allowing someone to think about flipping their perspective and the idea of holding a diamond or moving around and seeing it from someone’s new lenses just kind of allows people to feel more comfortable with the idea of these more general terms that we may say, like wear a new hat or flip a perspective. It just allows people to kind of visualize. I think that was one takeaway that I had from the group.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
I love that. You have to speak in the language where people are going to be able to understand it. And so if someone’s a visual learner, I love metaphors. And so usually when someone’s explaining something in a metaphoric way, I’m like, “Oh my God, I could totally see you in the boat, dude.” Thank you for doing that. So it helps for depending on who you’re working with in explaining it that way. So thank you for sharing. Who else would like to share? Love someone from this table. Let’s hear from your table. What was something that came up in your group? Oh, Erin, that back table. Mm-hmm. Y’all got saved. They were like, “Crap. They came back here.”

Speaker 8:
One thing that was shared here was just making sure that everyone in the room from the beginning understands that it’s also their responsibility to hold up that safety net.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Come on. Wait, say that again. Say that again.

Speaker 8:
That everyone in the room is responsible for, what’d you say? We bring the net, but everyone in the room is responsible for holding it up.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Okay. Put that on a shirt. Thank you. Everybody is responsible for holding it up. Thank you for sharing. Again, this is just a really good activity to hear different perspectives because you just never know what angle someone is looking at something or how they’re processing or understanding or learning. And it’s also a really great way to understand what people want to improve in. So if we’re talking about one of the actions you want to take to strengthen, that means that it’s essentially a kryptonite or area of growth. And so it’s really good to understand that about your colleagues. So thank you all for doing that.

So again, just to highlight that psychological safety and credibility really are intertwined with each other. So credibility builds on psychological safety, psychological safety strengthens credibility. And without psychological safety, credibility erodes. So we really, as facilitators really need to understand the spaces that we’re going into, understanding who’s in the room, understanding the outcomes, understanding the purpose of the space before we even get there, and then how do we make sure that we’re showing up as the expert and as that credible, reliable individual.

And so I want us to really talk about what it is to have the safety net in action. And that really talks about how do we prepare. How do we prepare the net? And so when you’re thinking about preparing for the net, I mean there’s so many different ways to think about that, but it’s like all of the things you want to do before you go to the session and using partners and technology and people to really understand what you’re walking into. And so it’s good to learn about the group’s climate. So you can do that by doing surveys, one-on-one interviews, really understanding why even why am I here? Especially as an external facilitator, what are your pain points? Why did you reach out to me? What are you looking to do? What are you looking to change? So really understanding their pain points, the challenges that they’re currently going through as an organization, as a team, as a group, it’s so important because then you know what they’re challenged with. And then you can come in with the solution. Okay?

You want to establish ground rules that promote inclusivity and trust. Going back to those pop-up rules, a really great way that I’ve seen, it’s like if you already have established teams or established groups, you’re like, “Well, how do I do that? We’ve been meeting for a year already.” Right? It’s time to have a reset. “Hey, guys, I went to this really great opportunity and I learned a lot about facilitation, and I’d love for us to do a reset as a team.” And so, one of the things I’d like for us to do is reestablish our purpose while we’re meeting, while we’re getting together. And I’d also like to reestablish what it means to meet in a safe way. And so I’d like to reestablish collaboratively as a team, as a group, what are some ground rules that are going to ensure safety, that’s going to ensure we feel valued as a team, that’s going to ensure that we’re learning together and we’re not working in silos.

Whatever that pain point is, the more you know, the more you can then curate what those ground rules or those pop-up rules that it’s going to satisfy and serve the group that you’re working with. And so the more you know before, the better. And lastly, it’s designing activities that encourage both divergence, so like opening up the conversation and then moving into that zone where you’re just collecting as much information as possible, but then bringing the group together towards decisive action. There’s no way you’re going to move a group towards decisive action if you do not know what their pain points are and why they’re even meeting. And there’s sometimes you don’t even need to meet. That’s another conversation. But really understanding what that purpose is and knowing that information before you step into the room or before you go into that Zoom or Microsoft Teams or whatever that platform is, the more you know, the better.

Everybody with me? Awesome. Next is really how do we strengthen the net? So what does that look like during the interaction, during the session? Start with low stakes participation? So the likes and dislikes, those openers, the bingo. This is a great passive. I love passive programming. So this is passive programming. You don’t necessarily have to have any lifting of this. It’s on the group. So you create the ground rule that says, “Hey, I want you to be fully invested in this opportunity. There’s a program. Take advantage of the bingo card so you can meet however many boxes here are people.” And so that gives you an opportunity to have some passive programming. One activity that I love to do, which I’ve shared with a few in this room, is when I do full day workshops, during lunch, there’s always programming going on. I don’t just let them hang out and hibernate.

No, we’re not doing that. So I like to do intentional interactions. And so just a simple list of questions that are specific to the group I’m working with. But sometimes people are awkward, especially if the group doesn’t know each other. They want to not be programmed to the entire day. But there’s moments where you can have some interactive or passive programming like this or having a list of questions. Douglas gave us a box of cards yesterday of deeper talk, like cards that you can bring in. So there’s a lot of things you can do, again, to create that connection that allows for people to feel safe with one another. The more I feel connected, the more safe I feel with you. And as a facilitator coming in, whether I’m internal or external, I’m bringing these resources to you. And as the group starts to build that space, guess who they’re going to attribute that to? Because they probably weren’t doing it before.

And they’re going to look at you as a facilitator, like thank you so much for being the solve to what’s been happening with our team, which again, builds credibility. Next, you want to monitor. It comes easier for some folks, that intuitiveness of when the group shifts in energy. Or it’s like, “Ooh, somebody just said a crazy comment.” And then you saw all the faces kind of shift over here. And so sometimes you have to pause as a facilitator to call out, speak to, address in a very nice and inclusive way, what just happened in the space. So it might be, “That was a really, really complex question you just asked, and I felt like the group shifted. Are there other thoughts around that question?” Or, “Wow, I didn’t realize your company is going through layoffs right now and it feels heavy in the room now that we’re talking about goal setting. Tell me what’s going on for the group.”

And this is real life examples. I’ve done that. “Well, we don’t want to talk about goals. We don’t know if we’re going to be here next week.” And I’m like, “That’s valid. Let’s talk about it. Now, let’s figure out how we can make some goals for the organization, but also for you personally in the event that you are transitioning. How are you going to be ready?” And so the more you know about what’s going on in this space, the more comfortable you are in really pulling those things out, the easier it’s going to be for you throughout the session to continue to navigate and adapt to what’s happening in the space and in the room.

And lastly, I want you to be able to use nonverbal cues that goes back into that intuitiveness and verbal affirmations to really reinforce psychological safety. So shoutouts to Kat, who’s going to be doing a presentation. Kat, wave to the folks. She’s going to be doing a presentation tomorrow around nonverbal communication and listening. But it’s really important for us to really understand that and to strengthen that muscle and that skill set because a lot happens between the lines in sessions, the little looks that happen, or you have an executive that walks into the room and everyone sits up, right? Like, “Oh, the CEO walked in.” And no one now is being authentic and everyone’s being politically correct.
And so I’m the facilitator. I’m going to be like, “Hey, CEO, thank you so much for coming and supporting, but I need you to go because I need this room to move towards decisive decision-making without the power dynamic influence that just popped up.” And so sometimes we really need to understand what that looks like. And one of the things I also like to say too is as you’re presenting, be mindful of how you engage with the group. So someone might make a comment and you’re like, “Man, that was really great. Thank you so much for contributing that.” And then the next person makes a comment, it’s like, “Thanks.”

So you want to be even keel in how you, again, that contributes to the safety of the space because now that person might feel, “Well, I thought I had a really good contribution to the meeting and I just got a thanks, and we just kept it moving.” And so making sure that we’re acknowledging folks. There’s even keel in our responses. I’m very high energy all the time, if you haven’t noticed. But I also like to make sure that when I feel someone’s being vulnerable or I see them challenging themselves, I say that. I say, “Thank you for being vulnerable in this moment.” I say, “Thank you for sharing,” a lot. Probably said it like 30 times. I don’t know if anyone’s written that down, but that’s one of the things I like to do because it takes courage to speak up in a group setting. Especially, do y’all know each other?

Exactly, right? So it takes courage to be able to speak in a larger group. And so being able to honor those folks who are speaking up. But then there’s ways in which I want to make sure that everyone is contributing. So there’s people who don’t want to raise their hand and don’t want to speak. And so that’s why there’s intentionality of making sure that you’re paired up or you’re partnered up and that you’re at least meeting one or two new people in this space before you leave in a session. So there’s intentionality behind how you make sure people feel supported, seen, and valued in and during the session.
All right. So one of the things I want to do, we will talk about how we close the session, but I just want to pop in an activity that you can do during a session that really helps to build credibility and really helps to build that safety. And so I like to call it the net of support, and it’s kind of like the trust the line activity. Anyone ever do the trust the line activity? So what I’m going to do is I’m going to ask you a series of questions that refer to psychological safety and credibility. And I want you to take note of folks who are standing up in some of the questions that I’m going to ask. I want you to make eye contact. I want you to be really aware. This is where that somatic stuff comes in. That was a lot of layers to facilitation.

Like how is your body responding in some of the questions that I ask? Is there hesitancy in even standing up? Because that also alludes to that vulnerability piece. How are you challenging yourself to step out of your comfort zone? Okay? Again, we listen and we don’t judge. There’s no judgment here, okay? I’m not also going to ask really scary questions. I feel like that’s what I’m prompting. I promise you I’m not. We’re going to keep it very light here, but in your groups as you are building. So I’ve had to do lemon squeeze conversations and lemon squeeze moments, and anyone ever have a lemon squeeze with the team? No one knows what that is? Okay? This is a higher ed. I used to work in higher ed.
So it is when you have to, the lemon is just so bitter. Everybody is just salty, bitter. Everybody’s being mean and nasty. And so we got to squeeze the lemon and turn it into lemonade because we got to move on, right? Whew. I have stories for days. I used to work at Temple University as a resident director. I had 25 RAs, I had 5,600 first year students, and I was a complex director. And the first week somebody stole a cop car. I said, “What did I sign up for?”

And so with 25 students, first, second and third year students, people dating each other, there’s just drama. This has nothing to do with the work. Stop coming to my office and gossiping about each other. We need to have a lemon squeeze. And so in that lemon squeeze, part of that is to make sure that everyone just has an understanding of who you are. And so we had really deep questions where people are like boohoo crying, but we’re not going to do that. We’ll save that for part two, this facilitation subject. So I would love for everyone as I ask questions to be able to stand. And again, I want you to take note of your energy, take note of your emotions that might come up. I want you to jot down comments or thoughts that come across, because then we’re going to do kind of an activity after that. Okay? Everybody with me? Everybody with me?

Audience:
Yes.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
So much better. Thank you. All right. So I want you to stand up if you’ve ever hesitated to share an idea out of fear or judgment. All right? Can we play a little light music in the background? A little low. Little low. Okay. Everybody, you making eye contact? My friend would be like, “Eyes, eyes, eyes, eyes, eyes, eyes, eyes.” Okay. Stand up if you’ve had to navigate… Oh, excuse me. Sit down. Sit down. Sorry. Don’t read it yet. Don’t read it. Don’t read it yet. Don’t read it. How do I go back? Let’s go back. Don’t read it. Don’t read it. Don’t read it. All right. Y’all didn’t see it, right? Okay, so we got that. Everybody saw each other? We made eye contact. We good?

Okay, so I want you to stand up if you’ve had to navigate internal politics while trying to create a safe space. Let me come stand up on the stage at this point, right? Hold on. Whew, child. Let me tell you, I got stories for days working at some of the companies I’ve had to work at, right? Yeah. Are we looking at each other? Making eye contact? I want you to look at people at the back of the room, the front of the room. Okay. All right. Take a seat. Take a seat. Oh, my lanta. All right, stand up if you’ve intentionally ignored conflict in a space as a facilitator. People are already standing up like, “Whew, that’s me.” And kept it going to keep the peace.

“Let’s just move on. Ooh, I don’t like drama. I don’t want to run to the fire. Let’s move on.” Okay, making eye contact. Again, I want you to think of what memories are popping up for you. What emotion is coming up for you? What time are you going back? Someone’s clutching their chest like, “Oh, Lord.” Okay. All right. Have a seat. Stand up. If you’ve been in a meeting where an idea was ignored only to be repeated by someone else and praised. How dare they? Are you kidding me? I just said that 32 seconds ago, right? Make eye contact. Yeah, you can’t keep looking at the same person, y’all. Can’t keep looking at the same person. All right, take a seat. Take a seat.

All right. Stand up if you felt like you needed to prove your expertise as a facilitator. Stand up if you’ve needed to prove your expertise as a facilitator. Just a quick plug to Voltage Control. Get your certification. So you just pull the paper out, right? “Let me tell you something. I got a certification.” All right? All right, everybody seated? All right. Stand up if you’ve seen someone hold back from participating because they weren’t sure their perspective would be valued. All right, we looking around. Are we looking around? All right, take a seat. I want you to stand up… Oh, we did that one. Stand up if you’ve ever questioned whether a group you were facilitating truly felt safe to share openly.
Yeah, I do a lot of racial equity work. And whoop, “No recording, no AI, nothing. Changing my name. Black the screens out.” That’s exactly how the conversations are going now. Yeah. All right, take a seat. All right. Stand up. If you’ve ever felt pressure to balance inclusion with authority in facilitation. Oh, a lot of y’all took some deep sighs on this one. Okay. Write down how you’re feeling. Write down whatever just popped up for you. All right, take a seat. Stand up if you facilitated a group where people were skeptical of your role or expertise. It’s like, what is a facilitator?
I need to stand up because my mom was this morning like, “So what are you talking about? What is a facilitator?” I’m like, “Ma, I’ve been doing this for four years.”

Audience member:
I got a certification.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
Yeah, I got a certification from Voltage Control. All right, have a seat. Stand up if you’ve had to win over a tough group to gain their trust. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, we got a lot of laughs. Anybody else want to stand up? Any last? All right. Oh, we got one more. All right, have a seat. All right. Stand up if you’ve ever been challenged in a session and had to quickly adapt your approach. Ooh. Ooh, yeah. Are we looking around at everyone else who’s been challenged in the middle of a session? Ooh, Casey got a story. Okay? It’s like, “Halfway through they was trying to tell me all the things that I already knew,” right? All right. Have a seat. Have a seat.

So these are the questions that I want us to kind of process and marinate on because it’s really important to understand how we show up in facilitation. The more we can understand about the ways in which we’re triggered, or we have fears, or we have habits that maybe no longer serve us, like I avoid conflict so when there’s conflict in a session, I’m like, “Yeah, so how’s the weather? All right, let’s move to the next slide. Are we good?” Right? Versus leaning into that because sometimes you get the best decisions and the best connection sometimes through dissent.
And so we can turn the music off, my friend, maybe. Okay, thank you. And so what I’d love for us to do is really thinking about, so on your tables you should have, I’m going to use your table. So you should have, I wanted to be on brand a little bit. So we got a little basketball hoop, and then we have a soccer goal, and you should have a ton of pom-poms. Think of them as soccer balls and basketballs, and I want us to take… It is pouring. I want us to take an opportunity. So I want us to do about two minutes, and I want you to write down all of your fears, all of the things that have hindered you to being the best version of a facilitator that you could be. So maybe it’s negative self-talk, or maybe some of your fears is I run from conflict.

Or maybe it’s like, “Man, when they talk about politics, I tune out. I don’t want anything to do with it.” So whatever those fears are, this is for you and your table, but I want you to just list out all of the fears that you have when it comes to facilitation. Maybe it’s, “Man, I’m scared that my technology is going to crash on me as I facilitate. Man, I’m scared that I’m not going to have a Sarah,” because she’s doing a fabulous job. Can we give her a round of applause? I don’t have to take notes. So one of my fears, I’m going to be transparent, honest, and vulnerable, is sometimes I spell things wrong. And so I don’t need my credibility

to be knocked because I spelled because wrong, or I don’t know, a simple word that you should know how to spell.
And so I want you to really think about what are some of those fears that you’ve encountered through facilitation and through the work that you’ve done, and maybe current fears that you have and that you’re really maybe stuck in it and you don’t know how to navigate that. Okay? So I’m going to give you about two minutes to do that. We’re going to play some light music or maybe just listen to the beautiful sounds of rain. But you have two minutes that starts now listing all of your fears. All of your fears as a facilitator. I’d love for you to move throughout the space, and I want you to find two other partners. So we’re going to be triads as much as possible.
Take your list with you. All right. So what I’d love for you to do in your pods right now, in your triads, is I want you to lean into the vulnerability, right? This is a no judgment zone. I want you to be fully present. I want you to be listening to each other, and I want you to create safe spaces for each other and really sharing what are your fears. Okay? What are those fears? What are those hinders? What are those blocks that have been holding you back from being the best version of yourself as a facilitator? And then I want you, after that, what I want you to do is at each of the tables, there should be a few of these beautiful cups that my lovely friends put together for me this morning. And I want you to then throw away your fears or toss your fears.

Kobe Bryant, rest in peace. I want you to, someone to be the hoop or the goalie, and I want you to toss in your fears. Because at the end of the day, you’re not going to be able to show up as the best version of yourself. You’re not, again, going back to this idea of you bring the energy in. And so if you’re coming in blocked, if you’re coming in with this negativity, if you’re coming in with these fears, there’s no way you’re going to show up as the excellent facilitator that I know you’re destined to be. And so I want you to be able to toss away those fears. I want you to express them. I want you to let them go because there’s power in tongue, and there’s power in saying the things that are holding you back, but there’s also power symbolically throwing it away. Okay?

So we’re going to take about 10 minutes collectively to do this activity, and then we will move towards our close. Any questions? Y’all ready to share your deep, dark secrets? All right, your 10 minutes starts now. Thanks everyone. All right. If you haven’t already, start to toss your fears.

All right, everyone, has everybody tossed away their fears? Anyone feel lighter? Anyone feel like they’re going to the NBA or to play professional soccer? Anybody? Thank you all so much for doing that. I walked around and I heard some really great conversations. Thank you for leaning into that vulnerability and really trusting those that you were interacting with today. So with that, just give a round of applause, literally round of applause. Thank you for doing that. And so what I want us to do is I want you to spend, because we did the activity, but I’m always the facilitator to make sure we’re doing some self-reflection. And so I want you to take the next minute, first thing that comes to mind. What is the one thing you are going to be doing that’s going to enhance safety in the work that you do, and your credibility? What’s that one thing? I want you to write that down. That is just for you. First thing that pops to mind. What’s the one thing you’re going to do?
Something you’re going to do different. A new practice? Because fears will always be there, right? It’s mind over matter. Are you going to wake up today and say, “I’m going to choose fear,” or, “I’m going to choose faith,” right? Am I going to stay stuck in these maybe poor habits? Am I going to let myself fall into these previous patterns? Because you know better, you’re going to do better. And so we’re going to practice at least one new habit. And because we’re human, fears are always going to come back up. And so everyone should have a handy dandy stress ball.

In those moments where you’re feeling stressed or the fear is starting to creep back up, I want you to squeeze it and be like, “Mo more fear.” Just say it with me. Do it. Be silly. “No more. Ooh, go away fear.” Right?

Audience member:
No more fear.

Skye Idehen-Osunde:
No more, right? And I want you to do a little toss up, and that’s what I want you to walk into your meeting, your session with a new mind frame, a new mindset, knowing that you can do it, knowing that you could be successful, knowing that you have all the tools necessary to show up to be the best version of yourself as a facilitator. And one of the things that I want us to do, because that’s an activity that we can do during, but what does it look like when we’re closing the session? And part of it is sometimes you need to, I have Landy who’s in our facilitation program, and her name is Landy.
So I was like, how do we land the plane? So how do we land and close the session? Meaning, how are we going to make sure that people are reflecting on what they’ve learned? We’re not coming together for 90 minutes or a full day and you’re not leaving with anything. So we need to take moment of self-reflection and workshop time to really walk away with what’s something you’re going to do different? What’s something that inspired you? What’s something you learned from someone that you interacted with in this session? And so it’s really important as a facilitator that we’re always moving towards close. We’re always moving towards what are the next steps? What are the decisions that were made? And then we’re using tools to capture that.

Because we all know what happens when we leave a meeting, if it’s not on the calendar, if there’s not a follow-up, people just forget and there’s no action. So we always want to make sure that that happens, and that follows up with the following up. So as a facilitator, as the leader of the meeting, as the convener, we want to make sure that there is some sort of follow-up, whether it’s a thank you email or a thank you note for coming, shaking hands, making sure that you speak to everyone and have authentic relationship and conversation. It’s my desire in session to kind of listen to as many conversations as possible to be as present even throughout your experience. But we want to make sure that we’re closing that still maintaining those relationships, and one way is really just to send a thank you note for being a part of this.
And then again, it’s lastly ending with commitments. And so we already have the one thing that we’re going to do. And so when you’re closing out a session, making sure that there’s some sort of commitment, commitment to action that people are taking, or a call to action that people are taking once leaving that session. So with that, I want us to close with the safety net pledge. Not going to do a Pledge of Allegiance. There’s no flag. It’s 2025. We’re not doing all that. But what I would love for you to do is I’d love for you to stand up with energy as we come to a close with our session. And I want us in unison to read this pledge and to have this commitment moving forward from our time together today.
So with that, I’ll lead the way, but I’d love to hear all voices confidently and proudly because we’re all proud facilitators, whether we’re just starting out or we’re seasoned, everyone still needs to make a commitment to showing up as the best version of themselves. So with that, as a facilitator and a member of this community, I commit to fostering psychological safety in every space I lead. I will build credibility and trust with everyone I encounter. I will actively listen and model honesty and openness. I will empower voices and encourage engagement. I will use inclusive practices and tools that invite full participation. I will empower participants to transform insights into action, applying their learning to real-world challenges.

I will create an environment of continuous improvement. I will commit to continuous improvement by seeking feedback, reflecting on my facilitation, and adapting to evolving needs. I understand that creating safety is an ongoing journey, and I am committed to improving my approach to meet the evolving needs of those I facilitate.
And with that, I want you to remain committed. My favorite quote is, “I’ve learned that people will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel,” by the beautiful Maya Angelou. And so remember, as facilitators, we’re coming to the space. We are the change makers. We are the problem solvers. We are there to create solutions and also have fun, right? So with that, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you.

Audience member:
Great job.

Skye’s session at the 2025 Facilitation Lab Summit was a powerful reminder of how authenticity and psychological safety are essential to effective facilitation. Her session provided attendees with actionable strategies to create trust and engage with participants in meaningful ways, reinforcing the importance of credibility in any facilitative role.

The post Building Trust and Credibility appeared first on Voltage Control.

“It’s most costly in the wasted human energy and time that goes into things that people in the end don’t care about. That is what’s the most frustrating to me, seeing people pour their energy with the hope that it’s going to pay off, and then in the end, when people shrug, it’s just so demoralizing.”- Jake Knapp

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson converses with Jake Knapp, co-founder and general partner at Character Capital, and a former Google employee instrumental in developing Gmail and Google Meet. The episode delves into Jake’s extensive experience in product development, emphasizing the importance of understanding customer needs and market differentiation. Jake shares insights from his early coding and game development days, highlighting the value of iterative testing and customer feedback. They discuss the “foundation sprint” and “magic lenses” techniques for refining product ideas and making informed decisions. The episode underscores the necessity of clarity and alignment in successful product development.

Show Highlights

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About the Guest

Jake Knapp cofounder and general partner at Character Capital and a New York Times bestselling author. Previously, he helped build Gmail and Microsoft Encarta, cofounded Google Meet, and was a partner at Google Ventures.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

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Transcript

Douglas Ferguson:

Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab Podcast, where I speak with Voltage Control certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method agnostic approach so you can enjoy a wide range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances of enabling meaningful group experiences. This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening.

If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our facilitation lab community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in real time with peers. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab. And if you’d like to learn more about our 12-week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com. Today I’m with Jake Knapp, co-founder and general partner at Character Capital and a New York Times bestselling author. Previously, he helped build Gmail and Microsoft Encarta, co-founded Google Meet and was a partner at Google Ventures. Welcome to the show, Jake

Jake Knapp:

Douglas, thank you so much for having me on. Great to see you as always, and pleasure to be here.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it’s so good to be in conversation with you again. I want to start off with the first story in the book, and as someone who spent countless hours on a Commodore 64 at a young age that story really resonated with me, and so I just thought it’d be a fun way to kind of open up the podcast to you.

Jake Knapp:

Well, yeah, I started with the Commodore 64 as well, although I could never quite make anything happen on it that I wanted to. When you remember the cassette tape drive, I mean, that seems wild today that the data was stored.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, I mean, I even remember coding with a go-to command and just the thought of that makes my brain hurt nowadays.

Jake Knapp:

If you’re listening to this and you’re wondering when we say cassette, what we’re talking about, it’s literally the kinds of cassettes that you’d make, like a mixtape on, an audio cassette. But the story at the beginning of the book is about when I was in middle and then high school and got into coding and making computer games on the Mac computer, and this is the black and white Mac. If you think of the first Macintosh computers, that’s what it looked like. And I spent just ages working on this game.

It was a castle adventure kind of thing. Go in the castle, you get a sword, fighting monsters. And I was trying to do this first person perspective, but it wasn’t like it was rendered by code, I was hand drawing the artwork for each view that you had. So if you turn left, then all of a sudden I had to draw that screen too. And as you move through the castle, I just couldn’t get very far. And anyway, I’ve finally felt like, okay, it’s ready to show to people.

I’ve been working on it for, I don’t know, a year and a half or something, and I bring it to school and on a floppy disk, and I show it to my friend Ian. And I didn’t tell him where it came from, and he’s just starts playing it, and he’s like, “I don’t know.” And my other friend comes in and he’s like, “Matt, do you want to turn on this game Jake found?” And Matt starts playing it and he’s like, “Yeah, you guys want to go play basketball?” And I was just like, “Oh my God.” I’m.

Douglas Ferguson:

Crushed.

Jake Knapp:

I’m crushed. I’ve spent so long working on it, and my hope was, “Oh, I won’t tell him.” And they’ll be like, “Whoa, what’s this cool game? Where’d this come from?” So the thing that happened though was I was just dead set on making something that my friends would play. And so I went back home and I started trying different games, but this time I thought, I can’t wait a year and a half every time before I show them, or I’m going to be graduated from high school before this gets done.

So I would just make the beginning of the game and to try out the mechanics a little bit. So I’d spend about a week on it and I’d come back and I’d show it to my friends and see what happened. And I tried all different kinds of games and finally I hit on this one. It was a mouse going through a maze, and each maze was really fast. You could get through it in like a few seconds. And in fact, there was a timer that would count down. So it was very fast-paced. And I got a bunch of sound effects from Ren & Stimpy and The Simpsons and Beavis and Butt-Head, all the stuff that I was watching and enjoying at the time.

All these little sound effects that would play and kind of make fun of you as you went along. And finally, my friends, they started to get into that and it clicked. I remember watching them play and lean forward and get into it and talk trash to each other. So that experience, yeah, it was the genesis of the way I think about products to this day. You’ve got to find something that clicks with your customer and above all else, that is the most important thing.

Douglas Ferguson:

So I’m really curious, with that lesson learned so early on, were you able to avoid making stuff that didn’t click or did you still run into those moments where you thought you had it figured out only for other people to show you otherwise?

Jake Knapp:

Right. That sounds like it should be the origin story of… And then I went on and created blizzard, but that’s Minecraft. But that is not what happened. I went to work at Microsoft, actually, was the first big software company I’d worked at. I worked at Oakley, the sunglasses company briefly beforehand on their website, their online store. But when I got to Microsoft, I was like, “Okay, now I’m building software and this is a continuation. This is my dream to make things that people love.”

And I was working on the encyclopedia. And in the early days that I was there, so 2000, 2001, 2002, I mean, this was still a product that people really did love and we would work on it and build a new version of the encyclopedia each year and launch it. And there were a lot of really enthusiastic fans of that product. Kids used it to study and it was really cool. But Wikipedia came out right around that time and started to just explode and so it was pretty evident a couple years in that the internet was changing the way people looked for information.

And we, with our CD ROMs that you had to swap in and out of the drive were not on the fast track to long future. So yeah, the thing is, it took us a year to make a product and put it out in the world. And I kept thinking, “I’ve got a new idea, this is going to change the game.” And it would take us a year before it got out there and you know, it wasn’t moving the needle and it wasn’t moving the needle. And this is a thing that can happen far too easily, especially if you’re in a large organization, especially if you’ve had success in the past, but it also happens to startup founders.

So I mean, if we fast way, way, way forward to today, I’m an investor with a fund called Character Capital and we invest in early stage startup founders, and it can happen to them. It can happen to folks who are just getting started just in that garage phase, so to speak, that you can have this idea and be convinced that once you get it right and get it out to people then it’s all going to work and you can talk yourself into just as I did in high school, just as I did at Microsoft, spending a year, a year and a half building something that in the end people see it and they’re like, “Ah.”

Douglas Ferguson:

It’s also making me think about how you can make something that clicks, but then the market can shift and it can unclick. And so it’s about being just super conscious of how things are evolving, what’s new, what’s fresh.

Jake Knapp:

That’s right. And a big part of the message of the new book is getting in touch with your customer and getting really crisp about what your belief is, about what the customer needs, what the customer’s problem is, how you can solve it in a special way, get really crisp about that. Put it into the form of a hypothesis, and then test that hypothesis. And you always have to test your hypothesis about the customer because it does change.

The world is constantly changing people’s expectations, their hopes, the solutions available to them, they’re always changing. And that first started to become clear to me at Microsoft as I was working on Encarta. And when I went to go work at Google in the mid two 2000s it was reinforced for me because we were building products there that really were on that edge of changing the way people did things. I worked on the Gmail team and then co-founded the product that became Google Meet.

And as we were doing these new things you’d find that something that you tested one week and it didn’t make sense to people and they’d never try it, and if you kept at it and tried to make it clearer and clearer, and as the world changed and people got more used to new things, hey, you know what, a couple of months later, maybe they were open to it, maybe you got it right and their world changed. And getting that intersection right requires a constant awareness of and experimentation with your customers.

Douglas Ferguson:

So I’m thinking about the Foundation Sprint and even the book itself, Click, what was the moment that sparked for you that this is necessary? Because there was a lot of talk of know, is Jake going to do Design Sprint version two? Is it going to be like a newer, bigger, better Design Sprint or whatnot? But you went to the thing before. And so what was the moment that you said, “Okay, I need to go figure this out and write this book because that’s what’s needed next.”?

Jake Knapp:

Well, it’s probably overdue for there to be a Design Sprint 2.0 book because I’ve learned things, Douglas, you’ve learned things. It’s been a while that we’ve been running these and we know there are improvements over what’s in the book, but at the end of the day it’s a lot of work to write a book. Having done it a couple of times I wouldn’t do it unless I knew that there was something that is just driving me crazy to not share it with people. That’s getting a little ahead though.

To go back to that moment when I realized something was missing. So I had worked at Google and created the Design Sprint in around 2010. I ran the first one in 2010, and it was starting to think about it in 2009 based on some experiences with Google Meet and with Gmail where I’d run these one week prototype sessions and then tested it with people at the end of the week and saw how powerful that was. Created the Design Sprint, started to formalize it, went to go work at Google Ventures, started running these with founders and startups and did that for five years, wrote the Sprint book.

I left Google and then together with my co-author John Zeratsky and our friend Eli Blee-Goldman, we founded this venture fund Character Capital, and we started working with early stage founders. And at Google Ventures we had gotten further and further away from the early stage as our reputation grew and as we were able to invest more money in later stage companies, that was always the strategy with Google Ventures, was to put a lot of money to work. But that means later stage companies and those companies don’t have what for me is really the heart of it, the cherry on top.

The most fun part is the earliest moments when you’re shaping the direction, you’re trying to figure out if you can find product market fit in the first place. So with Character Capital, we fast-forward to 2020, 20 21, and I’m starting to work with early stage founders. Again, it’s so fun. And I started to notice occasionally we would do a brand sprint with them or just have a conversation a sideline conversation in the Design Sprint and started to realize that there were some really basic fundamental things that all founders think about and have some sense of, but rarely have made crisp.

And let me be specific about what those are. It’s rare that on the founding team, every person on the founding team, let’s say there’s three people in an early stage startup, it’s rare that all three people will say the same thing if you say who’s your target customer, but they’ll all define it in the exact same way. It’s rare that they’ll all three tell you what the customer’s problem is that they’re trying to solve. It’s rare that they’ll have an immediate list of here’s our top three to five competitors and this is the one who’s the most important.

It’s rare that they’ll be able to quickly rattle off for you, here’s our advantage that we have, the insight, the special capability that the competition doesn’t have. And they all have a general sense of those things, but it’s rare that all of that is super crisp. And unfortunately it’s also rare that they’re really crisp about their differentiation. What’s going to make our solution so much better than those alternatives, those competitors, the ways people are doing things today? What’s going to make our solution so much better that it’s going to make the alternatives look like junk and people will switch to ours?

So they may have thought about differentiation in terms of industry or technology, but it’s rare to have this crisp vision of the customer perception that we’re trying to create. And so it just came up from these conversations, and I remember starting to think we don’t have a good tool for getting at this. The brand Sprint was actually almost the closest tool that we had. And the brand Sprint is all around figuring out how do you want to express yourself through visuals, through language? How do you compare yourself?

You think about car brands and are they more friendly or more of an authority or whatever. And so it’s not the right tool. And so that was the genesis of this first notion that there’s something missing before the Design Sprint. People need to get crisp about what their hypothesis is. And if you look at the teams who have had the best Design Sprints that we’ve worked with, they had clarity about their hypothesis, and it made the results of their sprint better because they knew what they needed to get at, they knew what they needed to assess when they prototyped and tested.

Douglas Ferguson:

It’s making me think about how you mentioned that even the simple stuff is not easy, these seemingly obvious basics that teams consistently struggle with. And so I’m curious, why do you think they find them so challenging?

Jake Knapp:

I think it’s hard because it’s like you’re a fish and there’s water all around you, or we don’t think about the air we’re breathing. It’s just there are so many things to do when you’re starting a company. There’s so many things to figure out. You’ve got to think about incorporating your company and making payroll and all of these millions of things. Can we get the domain name that we need? And there’s just a million things. You’re trying to talk to customers, you’re trying to get customers, you’re trying to build something.

And so of course you thought about what you’re doing, you thought about who your customer is and what kind of thing you’re building, but it’s that difference between being at the 100-foot level and being at the one-foot level and being really specifically crisp about it. I think people talk about it and then they move forward doing those first early steps of a project. And if you’re in a large company, the same thing happens. You start off and you say, “Oh, I think this would be an interesting opportunity for us to go after.” And pretty soon you’re building your team.

The engineers are chomping at the bit to write code. You don’t want to slow them down, you’re writing a PRD. And in all of this we have a lot to do. We have to create big documents, we have to create lines and lines and lines of code. We’ve got to do all this stuff that the simple kernel gets obscured. And something that I believe is true about the most successful products that we’ve ever seen in the world is that they have clarity about that simple kernel and they don’t lose that clarity. And so the thing that they set out to do in the beginning is, we’re going to solve this problem for people in a radically differentiated way.

It’s so different from what anyone else has seen before. It’s a cliche to talk about the iPhone, but it’s a clear example of this. So much easier to use, so much more powerful than the products that had come before. And they set out to do that and then that’s what they build and that’s what they talk about when the product comes out. And great products, great solutions do that. And it is actually hard to keep clarity about the simple basics of what you’re offering and to nail it in the right way. And so yeah, I think, I think it’s just true that it’s difficult.

Douglas Ferguson:

Let’s talk about differentiation. What are some of the mistakes that startups make when trying to differentiate? And how can the two-by-two and clearer project principles help them?

Jake Knapp:

The biggest mistake, I think, is just that we don’t realize how hard it is to stand out in the market and to make a compelling case to people that they should spend any time even thinking about what you’re doing. And so I think the more we go along in life and we have the experience of creating things and offering them out into the world, the more we’ll get the experience of that not going the way we hope. Sometimes just as that happened to me in high school and it happened with Encarta and I’ve seen it happen with all kinds of things over and over again.

Quite often we come up with what we think is going to be a lovely idea, something people get really excited about, we show it to them and they shrug. And it’s not that people hate us, it’s just that there’s so much going on in everyone’s life. And we have limited time, we have limited energy so to spend the calories even thinking about adding something new into your work world, your life, whatever, it’s something we don’t want to do. We don’t want to do it unless it’s really compelling and really catchy and really just, gosh, I’d be crazy not to try this thing.

So even to listen to the sales pitch is a lot. Even to look at your marketing page is a lot to ask. And then you get past that to try the thing that’s a lot. Gosh, this untrusted thing from the startup I’ve never heard of, I’m going to sign up for it, oof, that’s tough. Even if you’re talking about early adopters, tough to get them to make that step. There’s so many things being offered all the time. And then to get people to truly adopt it, that’s tough too.

So I think the mistake that we all tend to make about differentiation is to undervalue just how fantastic something has to sound to penetrate through our natural armor against trying anything new, against listening to any new pitch, against all of the constant messages and shouting that’s coming at us all the time from our inbox, from the news, from wherever you go, everybody’s trying to grab your attention. And to get through that it’s just got to be really, really special. And you should not stop experimenting with your differentiation until you’re extremely confident that I’ve got a message now that’s getting through the noise and people are excited about it.

Douglas Ferguson:

Do you ever find that startups will claim a differentiator that their competitor might claim or put them in a bucket that a competitor would never say or the market would never perceive them in that way just because it’s an ideal way of looking at it? And if so, what are your tips for helping them break out of that way of thinking and being more authentic maybe?

Jake Knapp:

I think it’s quite common that if we set out to differentiate ourselves, our products ourselves, you know, individually or whatever, and we say, this is what makes me special, that we might not actually have the right viewpoint on what we’re offering. Let’s use the example of speed. You might think that, gosh, the way our product delivers something it’s really fast and that’s going to catch customers attention, but we might find that when we actually offer it to customers, when we run experiments that they’re not moved by that. That doesn’t matter to them.

They’re like, “Well, the alternative is already fast enough.” I’m not excited enough to change my approach by speed. And actually, I’ll give you a concrete example of this. So we worked with a company called Orbital Materials. They’re in our portfolio. It’s a startup who was founded by a guy from DeepMind who had worked on this really cool project where they developed an AI to analyze X-rays for trying to detect breast cancer. And they were able to beat radiologists at diagnosing breast cancer from X-rays.

And so this guy’s a great mind and a great computer scientist, and he thought, “I would love to apply AI to designing molecules so that we can find replacements for jet fuel and cobalt.” And things that are hard to develop today, or rare, expensive. If we could design molecules, he thinks we can solve a lot of problems that the world either faces now or is going to face very soon in terms of shortages of items or high costs items. So he starts off this company, builds an amazing team of chemists and computer scientists. And then to make this business actually work, to make this vision actually work, they’ve got to be able to work with the chemical manufacturers.

And so to go and set up a pilot program to get a design partner who will work with you as you’re designing these chemicals and hopefully finding some that work and actually be willing to say, “Okay, now we’re going to go through and manufacture some of these and see if they scale,” he’s got to make the case to these companies who have been coming up with their products in the traditional way, which takes years of trial and error through traditional chemistry. They’ve been doing it that way for 100 years.

And the promise that this new way of doing things is faster or higher tech or smarter, which on the surface, if you listen to the story, the way I tell it seems, yeah, well this new way has got to be faster, it must be smart and high-tech, but if you’re a chemical manufacturer and you’ve been doing it a hundred years the same way and it’s working for you, well that doesn’t sound. The old way of doing things I don’t have to change anything to make it keep working that way, it’s reliable, I trust it. So how do you reframe the world and make this new way of doing things sound appealing?

And so they had to try a bunch of different differentiators before they hit on this is the thing that’s actually compelling to people. And it was that they were going to be able to produce higher quality products and that those products would actually be more reliable. That it would be a more reliable development chain. And then they had to prove those two points. But they had to first hit on where’s the sort of the in the armor? Where’s the gap where we might be able to penetrate through the defenses that we all have against new stuff?

And they thought those are the spots they first identified as being vulnerable and then they had to say, “Okay, now we’ve got to prove that we can do that.” And then guess what? Like that ends up shaping the product that you build because first and foremost, you’re now trying to develop a product that will deliver on that promise of reliability, that will deliver on that promise of higher quality products. So that’s why I think what it looks like in real life is that we often, our first guess what we think might be compelling isn’t compelling, and we have to keep experimenting and tweaking until we find the thing that breaks through.

Douglas Ferguson:

You first introduced the idea of work alone together in the book Sprint, and it makes a strong comeback and click. And so I’m curious, why do you think this technique continues to resonate and proves so effective for teams, especially compared to our default methods or brainstorming and the ways that people typically approach these challenges?

Jake Knapp:

Well, you’ve experienced it. You’ve done this work alone together thing I know a lot and it is a surprisingly simple and powerful shift when you have a group of people. There’s some fantastic magic that happens when you have a group of people together trying to solve a problem. You’ve got different viewpoints, you’ve got the sense of perhaps inspiration people will get from one another, you’ve got also a little hint of competition that Douglas is in here and he’s going to come up with some good ideas, I need to bring my A game if I’m going to have anything worthwhile to contribute.

It’s different for me being on my own now with no one watching. Now Douglas is watching I’ve got to do a bit better. And all of those elements are really healthy, but they actually get watered down and messed up by the unfettered group brainstorm. Everyone can talk, anything goes conversation that we will default into as just as humans. We’ll all default into just talking our way through a problem. And that talking our way through our problem is subject to people who are really great at making a sales pitch for their idea. Their ideas will tend to be overvalued.

Folks who are introverted or for whatever reason, just maybe don’t think well when other people are talking, and I put myself in both of those categories, they’re not going to do as well in the environment of a group brainstorm. And then we have all kinds of cognitive biases that come in. So like the last idea that somebody said well that’s going to have recency bias helping it out, or the more somebody pitches their idea, we’re going to start to have confirmation bias. We’re going to associate ideas with people rather than with the merits of the idea itself.

And we’re going to be limited to the verbal, the audio only description of the idea and not the content of the idea. So when we work alone together, I mean, simply what happens is you say, okay, everybody be quiet, here’s the prompt, here’s the question that we’re trying to answer first and now I want you to spend some time thinking about it quietly writing down your solution or your answer. It could be an answer on a sticky note, it could be a back of the napkin style sketch of something or a detailed solution as we do in Design Sprints.

And then we’re going to review all of those, but they’re going to be anonymous and we’re going to look at them in silence, and then we know we’re going to vote on those and then the decider’s going to choose and maybe she or he is going to say, “Hey, there’s a bunch of votes here and a bunch of votes there, but I like this one. Could somebody tell me why? What I’m missing here.” And so then maybe the kind of conversation you have at that point is so much richer, the contribution, everybody’s been able to contribute, they haven’t had to sales pitch and think at the same time, there’s more detail.

Just everything about it is better. And I know I don’t have to sell you on this because I think you’ve been doing this and modifying it and finding your own new ways to apply it, but it’s super powerful. For me, honestly, it goes back to writing code and procedural thinking, trying to break down a function into what are the steps that need to happen to make it work. And when you run a request, the computer, the processor, it’s got to do some work. Our brains are the same way. So it’s also partly about creating space where the brain can process and then return something back to you.

And it just makes so much sense and works so much better than the traditional group brainstorm. So yeah, I work alone together. I found myself coming to the point in the new book, which I have a finished copy of right here. I found myself coming to the point where I was like, “Gosh, you know what? I’m going to have to reintroduce that idea because I can’t assume that everybody else is already sold on that. And I got a little more into it in Qlik and drew some cartoons and tried to really drive the point home of why it makes such a difference.

Douglas Ferguson:

The decider role also came back for round two.

Jake Knapp:

Yes.

Douglas Ferguson:

How can facilitators engage the decider? That’s something I’ve always been really curious about, ensuring that the decider’s voice is influential without overpowering others, and how do we guide them toward making clear decisions?

Jake Knapp:

Yeah, if you’re facilitating the decider is your best friend. I mean, not that you have to cozy up to them in some way, but just that the decider makes it so much easier to navigate through a problem with a group of people because at any point that you need to, you can flip to the decider and say, “Hey, can you tell us which of these options is the best?” Or “Can you narrow this down now to a field of three where we can zero in on.” Whatever.

You’ve got a lot of possibility with a decider to snap out of what becomes an open-ended conversation or an open-ended debate at any point, the decider is your key to moving on to the next level, unlocking the door to the next room that you have to pass through to solve a problem. And in the structures that I set up, whether it’s the Design Sprint or now the Foundation Sprint, I’m very intentionally setting the decider as the lock opener into the next room as we go from one batch of activities to the next and to the next and to the next.

And if you’re a facilitator and you’re either running a Foundation Sprint or crafting your own structure, I think that’s the first, the simplest thing is just to use the decider when you’re at a point when it would be otherwise hard to make progress they make the call, they move things along. And you can call on them even before your process is ready for it if you need to break a tie or to tell us, “Do you feel like we should spend three more minutes talking about this or have we heard enough?”

I mean, anything goes. The thing about the decider is that the method has to create enough space for everyone to contribute that it doesn’t just become a decider monologue going all the way through. And so for me, it’s a balancing act between now if I think about a small startup and we think about, hey, there might be three, five, 10 people in this early stage startup, the CEO’s usually the decider, although not always, depends on the content of the sprint, but the CEO’s voice is incredibly important here. We don’t want to make a decision that subverts the CEO, what she wants.

We shouldn’t have the group’s decision, a democracy subvert what the CEO wants to have happen because it’s her company, her role to make those decisions. But at the same time, we should provide her with as many tools as possible to make the best decision possible. And that means getting something good from everybody that she can evaluate and getting some sense of the group’s evaluation of those options. So as we talked through the work alone together structure, it’s everybody comes up with their own proposal in silence, everybody reviews and votes in silence.

Sometimes even people will write down their decision or their proposal on a sticky note in silence, and then the decider makes the call and she’s encouraged to draw out those conversations. As the facilitator, you can intercede there and when you see that maybe the decider hasn’t paid enough attention to this stuff, you can slow things down or speed them up, and I think that’s one of the key powers of the facilitator. But the structure itself also should always elevate competing opinions for the decider, should always give pause to the decider before she makes a decision.

But you also have to be really careful as a facilitator that you don’t let that methodology overwhelm the decider’s intuition. At the end of the day, the most important thing about the way that I work with teams, the Foundation Sprint where you’re creating a hypothesis or the Design Sprint where you’re testing that hypothesis, is that we need the decider’s intuition to get great. It may not be great in the beginning, but we need it to get to the place where it’s great because the deciders ultimately are predictor of what’s going to work.

They’re going to make a prediction and we’re going to follow executing on that prediction, and then we’re going to hope it comes true in the end. There’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So in these sprints we’re trying to zero in and identify the decider’s intuition. We’re trying to tune it and give it every advantage of the team, but ultimately the deciders forming the hypothesis and then the decider saying, “This is the form of solution, I think will prove that hypothesis.”

And every time we run an experiment and test with customers we’re showing, well, here’s what the world said. It said, “You’re wrong.” And when that happens that’s a powerful moment for the decider to get better, for their intuition to improve and improve and improve. The success of our product ultimately will be the result of how well we can inform and improve our decider’s intuition or how strong it is to begin with and how much we can isolate and clarify it. So anyway, that’s a lot, but as a facilitator, that’s what I see my job is doing.

Douglas Ferguson:

I love the callback to the swords and sorcery games and the decider unlocking the next room.

Jake Knapp:

It’s a quest. It’s always a quest.

Douglas Ferguson:

That it is. Maybe there’s another book title in the future.

Jake Knapp:

It could be. It could be a good one. I like that word. I always a big fan of a tribe called Quest and so the word quest is just always a special.

Douglas Ferguson:

So let’s talk about magic lenses for a moment. You talk about it being an activity or a way to explore conflicting opinions, which I think is really important when we’re bringing groups together and harnessing the power of diversity. So how can facilitators burst guide teams through this process?

Jake Knapp:

Magic lenses is an activity that if I do say so myself, I’m really proud of it. I think that for the past, I suppose 15 years, you could kind of boil down what I’ve been doing with Design Sprints and now the Foundation Sprint, you can boil it all down to helping people make decisions about things that are hard to decide on. And part of that is time boxing, so you accelerate those decisions, but part of it also is evaluating multiple paths, making sure we’ve clarified what those paths are and identifying them in a Design Sprint that’s sketching different solutions that we might prototype and build in a Foundation Sprint.

On day two of the Foundation Sprint, it’s about identifying the approaches that we might take to solving this problem. So not the specific solution, but like are we building a plugin for somebody else’s software? Are we building standalone software? Are we building a dashboard? Are we building a chatbot? There’s all these different broad paths that we might take and then in a Design Sprint we’ll get really detailed on, okay, what’s the form of that thing look like? And making a choice like this, when I thought about it for these early stage founders, it’s you have the opportunity to pre pivot.

Often you’re a founder and you start building something, it’s just not working out, and like me showing my friend Ian, this computer game, I realize I’ve got to go in a different direction. I’ve got to pivot. Well, if you could have that moment of thinking, so what are my other options? If you could do that first, you might either have more conviction about the path you’re already on or you might say, “Gosh, this other one, when I evaluated in the context of my differentiation and everything I’ve been thinking about with the basics of my project, I actually think I have a better shot at this other path I’m going to pre pivot.”

Anyway, that’s a huge decision to make. And even though in a Foundation Sprint we’re only forming a hypothesis, we’re going to experiment right away with a Design Sprint and if I haven’t made it clear already, the idea is you run this two-day Foundation Sprint and then you go right away into five-day Design Sprints to test it, to run the experiments. But even if it’s just a week at a time experiment it’s still a big decision. We want it to be very carefully considered. So the idea with magic lenses is to use two by two charts, that old business school, standby to plot out different viewpoints on our options.

So let’s say we’ve got three different options for how we might approach this problem, option A, option B, option C, we’re going to look at those through the customer lens. What solves the customer’s problem in the best way possible? And plot that out on a two by two. Think of the two factors that for us are most important for the customer solution. And which of these is the easiest to use and solves their problem in the best way? And that’d be in the top right. Maybe option A is in the top right there. And then we think about the money lens. Well, we’re going to need to turn this into a business.

So which of these has the highest long-term value to a customer? What do we suspect people would pay for the most? Which has the largest possible audience of customers? And now maybe option B is in the top right. And option A in this one maybe it’s in the top right quadrant, but it’s not pegged right into the corner there and option C is somewhere in the mix. And now we look at growth. Not only what are the most potential customers, but what do we think is the easiest to adopt? And now we look at the pragmatic view, which of these is the easiest to build, the fastest to build?

We look at our differentiation. If our differentiators are reliability and high quality, which of these approaches best delivers on those factors? And then there are always other lenses particular to a company. So people can create their own two by two charts. What happens if we’ve color coded option A, option B and option C? You can imagine these charts side by side by side, we zoom out on those and we look at where the colors are, you can often see a pattern often the same option is in the top right in every chart. That actually happens a good amount of the time and you think, well “Gosh, clearly we can feel good about pursuing that option.”

Sometimes it’s a mix. And that’s actually helpful too, because if we’re feeling conflicted about proceeding on our project, it might be that it’s because it’s just not clearly as good at growth as it is at the pragmatic view or as it is at differentiation. And so now we know growth is going to be a challenge, but maybe we still have conviction. Maybe when it’s mixed we’ll say one of these lenses is truly the most important. And even though we don’t have consensus among all the lenses, this one is so important. That’s the way that we’re going to make this decision. For us, it’s all about the customer.

We’re just going to deliver the thing that is best for the customer and trust that the rest of it will work itself out. Any of those is a viable way to move through magic lenses, make a decision on an approach and graduate to having your founding hypothesis. If you’re the facilitator helping teams to move through that is a really special moment. There is just mechanics of getting people through plotting charts, and we can talk about that if you like. It helps to do one axis at a time and to have the decider or one person who’s an expert on each domain talk about those charts.

But what’s really special about this activity is that you make a very complex situation, visual. You capture it in a way that the brain can parse, whereas when all of these factors are in our heads, it’s very hard to have clarity about what’s going on through all these different lenses. As a facilitator, your guidance to the decider about what you see, about where you think they should give a little bit of extra care, if it’s consensus, it’s easy, but when there’s not consensus deciding, okay, is it the best idea here if I have the whole team vote on which lens is most important?

Will that give the decider the sort of pause that they need to consider this? How do I make sure that the democracy of the team doesn’t outweigh the intuition of the decider? And this is an area where your judgment, your expertise, your experience, your gauge of human nature and interaction and what’s going on all become really important. It’s a very powerful moment. And it’s just potentially, I think, a super tool that you can use not only in the Foundation Sprint, but in any situation where people face a complex decision. And the stakes are pretty high for getting that decision right.

Douglas Ferguson:

You have a gift for simplifying complex decisions, whether it’s exploring these conflicting opinions or selecting what to prototype into these clear step-by-step recipes.

Jake Knapp:

Well, thank you.

Douglas Ferguson:

I’m super curious, what’s your secret for turning these tough, abstract decisions into straightforward processes anybody can follow?

Jake Knapp:

I was talking to my son, Luke, recently about, you know, life and careers and work and he was talking about there’s a piece of advice that folks sometimes give which is follow your bliss, and I am actually a bit of a skeptic of that advice. I think that following what’s completely your bliss is telling a startup founder to like, “Well just build whatever like sounds fun to you.” And that could work out you. There are certainly examples where that does work out, but it really only works out if there’s a market for your bliss.

And so I told him, I thought perhaps a different way of thinking about it is, you should be aware of your bliss, you should make time for your bliss to plug another book of mine. Your bliss may be a hobby, but you must find a way to become obsessed with the thing that you do. If you can become obsessed with it, if there’s enough interest and excitement that you can really, for the long haul, dig into this thing and be obsessed with getting it right, then that’s I think a more likely predictor of both your satisfaction and happiness as an individual and that your work will find a market of people, an audience of people.

That it’ll matter to people. And for better or for worse, I became obsessed with the beginnings of projects and those decisions that people made and I just can’t stop thinking about it. And it drives me nuts when I’m in a conversation and we start to make a decision and sometimes it’s me who’s screwing it up, but I can tell that in some way we’re screwing up the way where we’re processing it. We’re taking too long, we’re not considering enough options. It just feels like, “Oh man, something’s going wrong here.”

Maybe I’m not naturally even like the most decisive or naturally the most analytical or rational person, part of this has just been trying to decode what’s going on in my own brain and try to make those meetings and those moments go right. And I would have thought that I’d be done with it by now, but it just seems like I still am uncovering parts where I’m like, “Oh, I want to fix that too.” So I’m just obsessive and gosh, if it’s helpful for folks that’s fabulous because I at this point can’t stop.

Douglas Ferguson:

Amazing. I’ve got a few rapid fire ones here to end on, so here we go. Beyond the example in the book, have you ever used a funny or memorable eject lever message to carve out focus for a good emergency?

Jake Knapp:

I have migraine headaches and I don’t have them very bad compared to a lot of people who have them, but if you have migraines, you might know that there’s a pre migraine part and a post migraine part, they affect your whole body and your whole brain in a way that goes beyond the headache. And in fact, for me, often there is no headache. I’m really lucky in that way. There’s often no headache, but there’s still a mental fog that happens and body aches and I mean, it’s wild.

I may have overplayed the effect of the mental fog at times to buy myself time to think something through, to list out my options, analyze them, to perhaps work with folks. And that’s an eject lever that I have used from decisions in the past might, if you are talking to me and I need to make a decision about something and I say that I have a migraine now when I would need to get back to you in a couple of days, it might just be that I need time to think. And actually, now that I say it, I don’t know why I’m not just honest about that.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. Just you can never confirm nor deny that you have a migraine. Amazing. Well, okay, this is a fun one. So you compare differentiation to pizza toppings, and if the founding hypothesis were a pizza, what are some essential ingredients that always belong and what are some questionable toppings that teams insist on including?

Jake Knapp:

Yeah. Well, I talk about it because differentiation is something that if you get it right, it’s still probably not going to be the thing for everybody. Not everybody agrees on the perfect pizza. So we talk about the iPhone as this product that’s such a huge success story. And yet lots of people choose not to get an iPhone, they get something else. And so pepperoni pizza is not for everybody. Some folks are like, “I need a different flavor.” And so part of differentiation is getting the ingredients right.

And when we talk about the founding hypothesis it’s if we solve this problem for this customer with this approach, then they’re going to choose it over this competitor because we’re going to be different in these ways. So you’ve got some variables there. The customer, the problem, the approach you’re taking, the competitors and the differentiators, and each of those ingredients they are important, but you might be wrong about them. So when you form your founding hypothesis, you might be sure that your customers have this problem.

And then you might start talking to customers and realize, “Man, the people we’re talking to, actually, they’re not the right people at all.” And so that’s almost like the cheese. That’s the thing that seems the most basic, well, who’s the customer? And you start talking to people and you’re like, “Oh man, these people are lactose intolerant.” Or these people they like feta, whatever. You’re off base with this thing that you wouldn’t even considering it. You’re just like, “Everybody loves mozzarella.” And well man, maybe they don’t or maybe your mozzarella is not good enough or whatever.

And so any one of those, actually, I can think of examples with any one where we’ve seen startups go out and realize, oh, the customer is right, but the problem, this is not a problem that’s a big enough deal for them. It’s not painful enough for them to warrant trying something new or we have the competition wrong. We thought it was this and actually it’s just that they’re doing nothing. They’re not aware of all these solutions that exist because they just really don’t care, again, which could be back to the problem’s not that important. The differentiators is one that I always harp on because it’s so commonly missed and it’s something you have to work at to get right. But any one of those things could be a bit off, which is why we test. That’s why we experiment.

Douglas Ferguson:

That’s why it’s a hypothesis.

Jake Knapp:

That’s why it’s a hypothesis. Exactly.

Douglas Ferguson:

If you could wave a magic wand and instantly grant every facilitator or startup founder one essential insight from Qlik, what would it be?

Jake Knapp:

I think that the most essential insight is you cannot take for granted the basics of your business, of your strategy, of what you’re doing. In a startup, in a big project, in any organization, even in things that we do in our lives, we very quickly become blind to the simple core underlying things. And we can very quickly forget that the most important thing for a startup for a big project is that in the end that people care about it, that it clicks, that it does the thing we hope it will do for people.

And it’s worth taking time to reexamine those basic obvious things, get them really crisp. And so if you’re a facilitator, you should never hesitate to ask the dumb questions. And this book is full of dumb questions that I was embarrassed to ask. And so I wrote a book and created a framework to help me ask those dumb questions. And there’s this set of dumb questions, but there are a lot of dumb questions out there that if you’re a facilitator you’re actually in a really special and unique situation where you can ask those.

You’re coming in as an outsider and you can say, “Hey, look, I know nothing. So could you explain that acronym you just used? Could you tell me why we’re doing this thing?” You can ask those almost rude basic questions. And I promise you, 80 to 100% of the people on the team who should know the answer to it, they’re going to thank you for asking those, for clarifying the basics. You should never be shy about asking the simplest questions. And it’s always wise to rewind and get those basic questions nailed first. The assumptions we make are often where we fail.

Douglas Ferguson:

It’s such a gift to a team when you can shine a light on some of those things that maybe they’ve been afraid to bring up because it’s like, “I think we’re supposed to have this figured out, but I don’t know if I want to admit that we’re so far off base here.”

Jake Knapp:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And there are just far too many situations where those oversights, not through any malice on anybody’s part or even really malpractice, it’s just our human nature that we’re like, “Okay, good, we know what we’re doing, let’s go.” And those oversights end up being the thing that makes it fail in the end. And what’s a bummer about that, I mean, sure, from a Machiavellian perspective as an investor or a capitalist perspective, I guess, I’m just hoping that if we get those things right, your business is more likely to succeed and if I’ve invested in your business, then I’m going to make money in the end so I’m very self-interested in getting this stuff right.

But it’s most costly in the wasted human energy and time that goes into things that people in the end don’t care about. And that is what’s the most frustrating to me, is seeing people pour their energy with the hope that it’s going to pay off. I’m putting all of this time in, but in the end it’s going to be worth it because we’re going to solve this problem for customers, and then in the end when people shrug, it’s just so demoralizing. You’ve lost all that effort. You can’t 100% solve that, but if we get the basics right and we experiment to prove to ourselves to every extent possible that they’re right we have a chance of saving a lot of human effort, and that is very worthwhile.

Douglas Ferguson:

Very well said, sir. And I think that brings us to our end. And I just want to say thanks for the conversation, Jake. It’s always a pleasure being with you, and I look forward to our next time.

Jake Knapp:

Always a pleasure to speak to you as well, Douglas. And listeners, if you made it this far, check out the clickbook.com and see what you think of the book. We’d love to hear what you think after giving it a read.

Douglas Ferguson:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab Podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review and be sure to subscribe and receive updates when new episodes are released. We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog where I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics and collaboration, voltagecontrol.com.

The post Finding The Click appeared first on Voltage Control.

Finding my calling

My mom was my first facilitator, though I didn’t realize it at the time. Growing up in Thornhill, a suburb of Toronto, I watched her lead community meetings, organize fundraisers, and champion local causes like getting our neighborhood school built. I vividly recall being 8 years old and volunteering at our local Terry Fox Run, which she organized. I was always inspired by how she effortlessly brought people together around a common cause. Those early experiences taught me that you need to put yourself out there to make change happen,a lesson that has stayed with me.

Early Steps into Leadership

In high school, I gravitated toward student leadership roles and experiences, including bringing together students from different schools to build skills and connect. At the time, I didn’t use the term “facilitation,” but that’s precisely what I was doing: guiding conversations, building community, and fostering engagement among peers. These experiences gave me a profound sense of agency and confidence, setting the stage for my path ahead.

When I reflect back, I realize the seeds of facilitation were planted deeply by my family’s culture of coaching and curiosity. Interestingly, both my parents chose to pursue coaching certifications in their early 50s, training at CTI in California before anyone I knew was trained as a coach. Watching them embrace these career shifts inspired my own confidence in continuous learning. I also got exposed to a lot of “powerful questions” in our house!

My passion for collaboration and leadership continued to grow during my university years at UNC Chapel Hill, where I pursued a double major in political science and communication studies. This academic path was deliberate, reflecting my deep interest in understanding how communication shapes leadership and organizational dynamics. Throughout my time there, I actively sought opportunities to practice facilitation, even without consciously labeling it as such.

Shaping a Career in Facilitation

After graduation, my journey took me to Goldman Sachs in New York City, where my role in coordinating training programs allowed me to observe and engage with professional facilitators firsthand. Watching these seasoned experts bring rooms alive with powerful, impactful conversations was mesmerizing. I clearly remember thinking, “This is it—this is what I want to do.” 

Though my role at the bank didn’t initially include facilitation, the exposure I had was transformative. My responsibility involved hiring facilitators for various initiatives, including women’s leadership events and diversity training programs. Through observing these sessions, I began to understand facilitation as not just managing group dynamics, but as a deeply strategic tool capable of driving organizational change. The facilitators I admired most were those who balanced structure with flexibility, confidently steering difficult discussions with empathy and insight.

Following four enriching years at Goldman Sachs, I sought to blend my passion for training and organizational development with a desire to make a social impact. This pursuit led me to Harvard Business School(HBS) where I earned my MBA while taking as many electives as I could on non-profit management and social enterprise. This academic journey broadened my understanding of strategic leadership and further clarified my ambition to combine my facilitation skills with meaningful, social impact work.

My time at HBS was particularly challenging but immensely rewarding. I hadn’t previously taken business classes, so initially, it felt like drinking from a firehose. However, as I started to connect the dots between what I was learning and ways I could apply it in the non-profit sector, I became more engaged and curious. Throughout the cases we read, leaders that understood people dynamics and effective communication strategies always fared better.  Participating in and facilitating group projects during that period taught me important lessons about collaboration, influence, and how to facilitate diverse groups.

Upon returning to Canada, I was hired to help get the PricewaterhouseCoopers’ Canada Foundation off the ground.  As a part of that role, I developed a network of what we called “Foundation Champions” that helped to choose grant recipients, assemble volunteer teams and encourage non profit board engagement.  My role included facilitating regular meetings of this group and keeping them motivated and excited about the work of the Foundation.  I was always proud that our main granting program was funds for non profit leaders to engage in professional development (money that is hard to get in the social impact world!).  This also gave me a good window into the development needs of leaders.  This experience inspired me to venture out independently as a facilitator and leadership coach, determined to leverage these skills to support nonprofit leaders in their individual and organizational development journeys.

Stepping Into a New World of Possibilities

After a dozen years of doing this exciting and stimulating work, I decided that I wanted to hone my facilitation skills. While I had relied heavily on a structured methodology for strategy development, I was being called to facilitate increasingly complex conversations, often with challenging group dynamics.  I also wanted to position myself to engage in the facilitation of collective work in the sector, which is needed now more than ever. This realization coincided perfectly with my colleague and friend Rebecca Sutherns’ recommendation of Voltage Control. Rebecca, a facilitator I deeply respect, described Voltage Control simply as “the best,” and trusting her judgment, I decided to not only sign up, but to recruit a close friend and talented facilitator, Tammy Shubat, to join me.  Having a partner on the journey, who also understood the non profit sector landscape and needs in Canada certainly enriched the experience.  

Participating in the Voltage Control program was like stepping into a vibrant new world full of possibilities. Immediately, I appreciated the seamless integration and innovative use of digital tools like Mural, which helped take my virtual facilitation skills to the next level. Observing Eric and Douglas expertly guide us through sessions was profoundly instructive. Their calm yet authoritative approach, combined with genuine curiosity and openness, was a true masterclass in the art of facilitation and holding space.

Purpose Changed Everything

One of the program’s greatest impacts came from exploring Priya Parker’s “The Art of Gathering.” This exploration shifted my facilitation approach by embedding the critical importance of defining clear purpose into every interaction. Instead of allowing my clients to settle for vague objectives like “board retreat” or “leadership meeting,” I now actively guide them to articulate a specific, powerful purpose of the meeting,  increasing the quality and depth of the conversations I facilitate. Another highlight was revisiting and rediscovering Liberating Structures. Exercises such as “15% Solutions,” “1,2,4,8” and “Ecocycle Planning” quickly became essential components of my toolkit. These methodologies help energize discussions, inspire creativity, and unlock fresh perspectives among teams. Particularly impactful was the concept of the “groan zone,” a framework emphasizing the value of divergence in group discussions. This encouraged me to create intentional space for bold, unconventional ideas, greatly enriching the collaborative process.

Bringing Facilitation into Strategic Leadership

Voltage Control did not just equip me with new tools—it empowered me to step more confidently into a leadership posture in my facilitation. Previously, I leaned into what I saw as the integrity of the neutral role of facilitator. However, this certification invited me to see facilitation itself as a powerful form of leadership, enabling me to guide organizations effectively through complexity towards significant, lasting impact.

Since completing the program, I’ve confidently undertaken more ambitious facilitation projects, including with boards and leadership teams at several national organizations. I have also been called on to train leaders in strategy and strategic facilitation and have drawn on Voltage Control exercises like the “Deflection Point” to help them navigate strategic crossroads and imagine bigger, bolder futures. 

Charting a New Path Forward

Today, I am deliberately shifting my practice toward addressing larger, collective challenges within the nonprofit sector. Rounding out my work as a strategic coach and consultant on organizational strategy, I’m increasingly drawn to projects involving multiple stakeholders. My goal is to foster collaboration across sectors, bringing together funders, nonprofits, academics and communities to tackle critical social issues collaboratively. By creating meaningful, inclusive spaces for dialogue and innovation, I aim to drive deeper, systemic change.

Though this path presents unique challenges, requiring intensive focus, deep commitment, and intentional relationship-building, the potential rewards are immense. Being recognized as a facilitation expert allows me to significantly influence important social outcomes, transcending traditional organizational boundaries and creating a broader, deeper impact.

Looking ahead, I’m excited about the continued evolution of my practice, deeply informed by purpose and supported by the vibrant Voltage Control community and its wealth of resources.

For anyone considering Voltage Control’s Facilitation Certification, my message is clear: Do it. This program will significantly expand your perspectives, enhance your facilitation capabilities, and connect you with an incredible community dedicated to continual learning and improvement. It truly is the gift that keeps giving.

The post Finding My Voice in Facilitation appeared first on Voltage Control.

“You can talk the talk all you want, but the group is going to know if you’re not walking the walk. As the facilitator, you have to be the one that’s ready to lead in what you’re asking them to do.”- Caterina Rodriguez

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson converses with Caterina Rodriguez (Cat), a facilitator consultant and strategic leader at ADL. Cat shares her journey from anti-bias education to organizational effectiveness, emphasizing the importance of authentic connections in facilitation. She discusses the challenges of adopting a new facilitation style and highlights the transformative power of collaborative group experiences. Cat stresses the need for facilitators to embrace uncertainty and model genuine engagement, advocating for a method-agnostic approach. The episode underscores the value of building trust and fostering inclusive, change-ready cultures within organizations.

Show Highlights

Links | Resources

About the Guest

Caterina Rodriguez is a facilitator, consultant, and strategic leader dedicated to helping organizations build inclusive, change-ready cultures. With a background in program and learning design, facilitation, and organizational change, Caterina specializes in designing experiences that foster collaboration, co-creation, and meaningful outcomes. As the Director of Strategic Initiatives & Continuous Learning at ADL, she leads learning and capacity-building initiatives to strengthen organizational effectiveness. In her consulting work, Caterina designs and facilitates experiences that foster collaboration, co-creation, and strategic alignment to help teams navigate complexity and drive lasting impact. From guiding executive teams through complex change to developing large-scale programs, facilitating high-stakes conversations, and equipping teams with facilitation tools and leadership skills, Caterina enables organizations to build capacity for alignment, collaboration, and long-term success.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

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Transcript

Douglas Ferguson:

Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab podcast where I speak with voltage control certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making.

We embrace a method-agnostic approach so you can enjoy a wide range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances of enabling meaningful group experiences. This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative.

Thanks so much for listening. If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our facilitation lab community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in real time with peers. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab.

And if you’d like to learn more about our 12-week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com.

Today I’m with Caterina Rodriguez, a facilitator, consultant, and strategic leader dedicated to helping organizations build inclusive change ready cultures. Cat serves as the director of strategic initiatives and continuous learning at ADL, where she leads learning and capacity building initiatives to strengthen organizational effectiveness.

In her consulting work, Cat specializes in designing and facilitating experiences that foster collaboration, co-creation, and strategic alignment, helping teams navigate complexity and drive lasting change. Welcome to the show, Cat.

Caterina Rodriguez:

Thanks so much for having me, Douglas. Excited to be here.

Douglas Ferguson:

So great to have you. To get started, let’s hear a little bit about how you started your facilitation journey.

Caterina Rodriguez:

Yeah, so I’ll go back to right as I started working after I graduated grad school, and I had just started as a program manager at ADL. And I was in charge of both managing some of our anti-bias education programs locally, but I also would sometimes go out and facilitate them myself.

And that was the first time that I had ever facilitated, not presented, or given a training or a talk, where the majority of the program was actually focused on creating discussions, walking the groups through really interactive activities. And I remember getting onboarded to deliver these programs, and it blew my mind a little bit. I had never, not just not facilitated, I had never been in a session that was facilitated up to that point. Every experience I had had, had been very much kind of the talking at you, presenting at you style,

Douglas Ferguson:

What blew your mind the most?

Caterina Rodriguez:

Honestly, seeing the difference in the amount of engagement from participants, and the fact that by the end of the session, they had done just as much, if not actually a whole lot more talking than I had, and something inside of me clicked. I just went, that felt right. It wasn’t, I’m here to teach you what I know, but rather all of a sudden I kind of noticed this shift of, I’m here to help you uncover what you already know and what you’ve experienced, and then start to become a little bit more aware of, okay, then how do I continue growing from where I’m currently at?

And so all of a sudden it became less about me and more about the group that I was working with. And that felt super right, because I had never thought about learning being this co-creative process, versus the more traditional style of learning, which is more, there’s one or two people, right? They hold some kind of expertise, and you just get all the knowledge that you need from them.

But I think when it comes to anything like whether it’s, you know, anti-bias education at the time, or now a lot more, you know, learning and development or organizational effectiveness work that I do, a lot of that is really around the messiness of people. And so it’s really not nearly as effective to talk at people about that messiness rather than actually helping them explore that messiness, if that makes sense.

Douglas Ferguson:

It does. I want to come back to your point about it feeling right. When did you first notice that feeling? Was it when you were in the training, and learning these techniques, and how they were going to structure the time with students? Or was it when you were facilitating it for the first time? Or like when did you notice that?

Caterina Rodriguez:

Yeah, so during the onboarding when I was getting trained, I think it was just a whole lot of anxiety. So that was definitely not the moment that it felt right. It was just a totally new approach to me. So I was absorbing. And we had tons of space to practice, but I think that always an onboarding always feels kind of like, okay, well this is artificial, so of course it’s going to go in a nice way.

For me, it clicked the first time that I actually got out into the field, where I was working through my agenda with the students, and all of a sudden I noticed that it became a group conversation, and things were starting to surface that weren’t necessarily directly related to the question I asked, but rather things were building up and up and up and people were responding to what other people were saying, and digging a little bit deeper and asking questions of each other. And so for me, it was the first time that I actually got out on the field and worked with the group.

I’m painting a very idyllic picture. It did not go perfectly right at all, but just the drastic shift in experiencing that was really wild. And so after that first time I was hooked. I was super hungry to really start to take facilitation more of as a craft versus just, you know, this is just a particular style in which I deliver this specific program for this specific organization. And so I started to, kind of, start to pay attention to facilitation is something more than just how to do something, but rather a whole, you know, mindset shift, approach shift, externally. I hadn’t quite yet, because now in my current role, I’m fully internal at the time, right? I was still associating facilitation with this is how I work with external stakeholders. And it hadn’t quite sunk in that this is just in general an approach to working with people regardless of whether they’re on my team, outside of the organization, so on and so forth.

So yeah, I would say the first time I went out in the field was when it clicked, but it was also when I very quickly realized I had a whole lot more to learn and practice.

Douglas Ferguson:

Coming back to those feelings of anxiety during the training and prep, how much of this new way of working, or the mystery of like approaching training in this way, how much did that have an impact in the anxiety or the uncertainty?

Caterina Rodriguez:

I mean a whole lot, honestly. It really leans into all the skills that, I think traditionally they’re called soft skills, when honestly they’re just leadership skills, right? And so the unfamiliarity with facilitation as a style, as an approach, as a practice was a big part of it. Because it was two things that I was learning. It was the content and the kind of the subject matter piece of the programs while at the same time learning how to deliver it in an entirely different way.

And for me, the subject matter, that’s easy, right? You study, you learn it, you’re good. But learning an entirely different way to engage groups, that takes time to craft and to kind of find your authentic voice. Because that was another piece too, that because it was so new to me and I was immediately implementing it on the ground at the same time, I was still looking at some of the other facilitators I was working with because we always did it in a co-facilitation pair. And so, I was trying to pull from the best things that I was noticing, but I hadn’t quite found my own authentic facilitation style and voice. I was still mimicking for a long time.

Douglas Ferguson:

What helped you move past the mimicking? Were there steps that led to something that felt more authentic?

Caterina Rodriguez:

Yeah, honestly, a lot of trial and error, and this is going to sound really funny, trial and error with actual groups of participants. So one of the things that, you know, I’ll come back to that I so appreciate now about voltage controls or community of practice, but I didn’t have that back then. There were no spaces to practice, to unpack, to ask questions of facilitation as a practice.

I just got out there a lot in my role as a program manager. I didn’t necessarily have to be out in the field facilitating that much. We had a core group of independent contractors that we would deploy, but I liked getting out there. And so I would co-facilitate quite a bit.

And it was through a lot of trial and error and feeling and seeing the reactions of the groups to me, that kind of started to cue me in on that I wasn’t bringing my authentic self into it. And that is a very hard realization, all of a sudden, to notice that the group you’re working with is kind of almost calling your bluff a little bit.

I started to just kind of take a little more risks in terms of just showing up as myself. I wasn’t trying to be as gentle as maybe the facilitator that comes off as almost like a super caretaker. I wasn’t trying to be the most boisterous, like hilarious comedian in the room. I wasn’t trying to be the most elevated of subject matter experts. I just kind of showed up as Cat, and all of a sudden I started to realize that participants were responding to me entirely differently. They were starting to feel like they were making genuine connections with me. And I noticed that in the work itself, it started to lead to much more interesting conversations, because all of a sudden they noticed that I wasn’t performing. They noticed that I was just there to connect with them and help them connect with each other, if that makes sense.

Douglas Ferguson:

It does. And you know, it’s much easier for people to connect when we’re able to model what connection is like.

Caterina Rodriguez:

Definitely. That is, honestly, the biggest thing in facilitation across the board. Whether it was previously leading anti-bias education programs or now doing a lot of organizational effectiveness work, it is about authentic connection across the board, because that is going to be what kind of… You can say that you’ve designed a container or a space for people to come in and you know, build up that trust and do these things together.

But you can talk the talk all you want. The group is going to know if you’re not walking the walk, essentially. And I do think as the facilitator creating that container, you have to be the one that’s ready to lead in what you’re asking them to do, at the end of the day. So for me, modeling that connection is huge.

Douglas Ferguson:

You know, I was thinking about the comment you made earlier on the shift between anti-bias to org effectiveness, and I’m curious what led to that shift? What gave you the inspiration and confidence and what were the bricks that were laid to get you there?

Caterina Rodriguez:

So I had started to get a little bit involved with helping deliver our Train the Trainer, which is our internal onboarding program when we hire new staff or new independent contractors for our programming. And so I became part of the behind the scenes team that helps people learn about facilitation, and I absolutely loved it.

Quickly thereafter, I shifted from being on our regional team to our national education team, and that’s when I became the director of our anti-bias programs. And half of my job was around the program management piece, but the other half became very quickly a lot of this internal onboarding and capacity building for facilitating our programming. And that was my favorite part of the job. Like, I absolutely adored starting to work more internally to teach people about facilitation and create spaces for them to practice, start to bring to the team new designs and methods that were out there. Or in the anti-bias field, you’re leading really fraught conversations that have only gotten more polarized with time.

Starting to think about how do I help staff and contractors be able to lean into the inevitable conflict and uncertainty that’s going to come up in those spaces, with practices like how do we ask curious questions, how do we reframe, how do we actually throw it back to the group? And use the wisdom of the group, things like that to help the group probe deeper as opposed to constantly having them turn to you. Like you hold all the answers, so what do you think?

I fell in love with teaching people about facilitation. And that part of my portfolio, although it wasn’t my primary role at the time, kept expanding and expanding. So first it started with helping with the Train the Trainer. Then I started leading the Train the Trainer, Covid hit, and I completely redesigned it to be delivered virtually once Covid hit.

And that then kind of stepped me into a completely different echelon of thinking about facilitation, because I’ve been remote since 2018, but there wasn’t a lot of that being done virtually. I was still traveling to help lead Train the Trainers, and then Covid hit and I was like, oh, I now have to reimagine this craft that I absolutely am in love with, into doing it completely virtually. And that’s a whole different beast. That was a really, really fun process to basically have to redesign from the ground up, how do you train people on facilitation, which a lot of people have this concept, oh, you got to be in person and you do the cool things with the sticky notes on the wall, right? To at the time, not just going virtually, but teaching people how to be interactive on Zoom, and how do we do breakouts and this and that. So it took on a whole different technical meeting.

At the same time that I was redesigning this program, I was also having to teach myself a whole lot more about technology than I ever knew. And I’m very much a person that learns by doing. So it’s funny because at the time I look back and think about my biggest anxiety was not even around training facilitators, it was around the virtual piece. And now a majority of the facilitation I do is virtual. And that has started to feel a whole lot more natural to me, because there’s some interesting things around the virtual settings and dynamics that are at play or not at play. But all that to say, I think I started to, the biggest building block was starting to go from helping out with our Train the Trainer to leading it to then redesigning it.

Organically I just started to get more involved in kind of the learning and development side of things. So if someone in our department writes some part of our team released a new piece of content or updated one of our programs or things like that, I would often work with those stakeholders to think about, how do we bring that to our staff in a way that’s engaging and interactive. We don’t just sit them down for a 45-minute PD or professional development session, where we just talk at them and say, here’s the things we updated, or here’s the new information now go do, right? It would be okay, how do we think about you present bite-sized pieces of information and we have an experience, to experience the impact of the thing that we’re going to be asking them to then take to their stakeholders, to the schools, and the campuses, and the community organizations that they partner with on the ground across the regional offices.

So I slowly started to get more involved with the learning and development side of things. And that kind of just continued to grow until last, about almost a year ago now, I really shifted into a fully internal role and stepped away from my program director role where now I sit at this really cool intersection of learning and development program design and organizational effectiveness facilitation. And so it’s fun because I am still housed in my education department with a team that I adore, but I kind of almost act as a consultant to the other departments across the organization, where I basically bring them my expertise on facilitation to help them either deliver information to the organization or recreate their own programs where they’re engaging different stakeholders externally.

It’s been really neat to kind of become this internal, almost like a capability builder, where we’re really trying to help the folks across the organization engage whatever stakeholders they work with in much more effective and interesting ways.

Douglas Ferguson:

What’s been the reception across the organization to this kind of capacity building or even this consultative approach to where you’re providing these abilities? What have you been noticing as far as the reactions and how willing they are to embrace this as an alternative?

Caterina Rodriguez:

I think that at first, people were, no one was ever really resistant. It was more of like, I don’t know what to expect of this. So I think it was just more a little bit of uncertainty and curiosity, and also on my end too. So it’s a brand new role that has never existed, kind of building it as we go kind of deal. And so it also just required a lot of flexibility and nimbleness, to kind of see what comes of it.

As I’ve been working with teams, it’s been really fun because once we’re on the other side of it, they’re like, holy crap, that was really cool and really amazing. And once I’m on the other side of it, I’m like, holy crap, I had no idea that this is what you were doing. We always hear just very high level readouts from different departments. I mean, it’s an organization of I think about 500 people, so it’s not a small one.

And then there’s the other piece too, that in like any good nonprofit setting, we are all probably juggling two to three roles at once. And so, at the end of the day too, anyone is always really happy to get extra capacity or help to do something or help them think about something in a different way. So it’s been really neat.

It’s still a very new role, and we are still very much figuring out how does it show up in different spaces across ADL. But my favorite part of it is that it truly is like this internal consultant. So every project is different. It’s a different puzzle piece to solve, not just because it might be either a different team or different content. Sometimes it’s the same team, but because it’s more about enabling people to do their work better together, it just becomes a whole different beast, right? Like it’s not repetitive, it’s not monotonous. There’s always something new bubbling to the surface to work through or to think about or get curious about.

I would say that that’s been my favorite piece, is just that it is not boring. It’s never the same week to week, which I love. And it’s also one of the things that I love, I think, about consulting as well, is that every project is different because everyone has a different messy human challenge to solve.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. Your point about there not being a lot of pushback and that it was people seeking more clarity or more certainty around what it is. I’d say that most of the time when I see pushback from individuals, it’s because they lack the clarity and certainty of what the thing is.

And so that might, how they show up for you as more curious versus more just blatantly pushing back, I think might be culturally or an impact of the culture there. But I’m just kind of curious what advice you would have for folks wanting to grow or offer up a service like this with inside of their company. Like what were some of the things that were successful or that you would just recommend people will tend to as they’re thinking about setting something like this up?

Caterina Rodriguez:

Yeah, definitely. Once, I’ll take one step back. I think a couple pieces. One is definitely the culture too, is I had been there at the time back then for already seven and a half years. So I’ve also built a ton of trust across the organization. And so I think, having those trusted relationships. Now, fast forwarding to your question about what are some tips or pieces of advice I may have for folks that want to do more of this internally, is first, especially if you’re not new to a place and you don’t have relationships developed, start building those relationships, not just within your team, but outside of them.

So join those optional calls that are hosted by other departments, or come to critical cross-departmental conversations and offer up ideas or offer up hard questions that we need to explore. And I would say probably one of the biggest things in my journey, where I noticed a really different shift in how our own leadership team started to look at the value that I brought to the organization, is when there have been really sticky challenges that have come up internally and there’s disagreement in how to solve for them, or how to move forward.

I went from being reflective and a little quieter and going like, okay, this is how we’re going to do things, regardless of what I think too. I started to become pretty vocal, but I did it in a very solutions oriented way. So I would step into these spaces with my peers or with leaders and say, you know, I’m not so sure about that and here’s why, but I’m curious though what you think about this instead. Or, you know, I don’t know if that would work or not. Honestly, here’s where my head was at instead. And like, let’s explore, you know, where the delta is and why we’re thinking about this differently. And I started to engage in conversations.

I think there’s an interesting balance to strike between just being a “yes” person and being, you know, just completely negative all the time about things that you’re not in a hundred percent alignment with. I guess what I’m trying to say is I really started to practice, I think one of my key mantras for myself and facilitation is commitment over consensus. So I started to unpack conversations and push back and suggest and recommend things, not because I wanted everyone to think the same way as me, or I felt like I should think the same as them, but because I wanted us to understand all the different perspectives where we might have room to learn from each other and then start to create this path forward that made sense for everyone, right?

Everyone may not be a hundred percent in alignment or agreement about everything, but we’re all understanding where we’re at, where we’re headed, why we’re doing it that way. And so now you really lowered the barrier of resistance and you have buy-in for people to commit to those decisions, to that strategic path forward. And so that would be, for me, probably one of the biggest pieces of advice is to start strategically inserting your voice into critical conversations, both inside and outside of your team.

And then the other piece too is just getting curious in your conversations with people. So asking a whole lot more questions than you are, kind of making statements at, or telling people things. I think that also really helped shape the ways in which people expected me to show up, where I think all of a sudden I start entering spaces and people almost expected me to want to probe deeper, have these discussions, or explore and answer questions.

So yeah, I would say build relationships outside of your team, not just inside of your team. Start to build that trust, show up to spaces and use your voice in them, but use it strategically, right? And model the kind of effective curiosity that leads people to start to behave in a way where they’re starting to ask more questions and eventually starting to see, you know, how do we commit, despite the fact that we’re not all agreeing. Because especially in large teams, you very rarely are going to have a hundred percent consensus on sticky challenges.

Douglas Ferguson:

You know, I think that that’s an interesting phenomenon, because you know, consensus means agreement. And we can decide as a group what agreement means for us, and rarely does unanimity serve us well, right? And I think a lot of people hear agreement and they hear consensus and they think unanimity, when really there might be other protocols that might serve us better.

Caterina Rodriguez:

Yeah, no, that’s honestly so true. And it’s been, I think when I work, whether it’s internally or consulting, when I work with groups of people where there’s been some kind of breakdown along the way, oftentimes it’s because people are expecting unanimity in order to move forward. And I think that’s one of the most critical pieces or differentiators of facilitation, is the fact that we are not actually trying to achieve unanimity versus right.

When you do more like a presentation, you know, a speaking engagement kind of deal, or you approach it more in that way of a trainer style of, I have the right way and I’m going to equip you with that one right way. I think that’s when you start to allow for a whole lot more of the gray instead of the black and white. And that’s when you start to see a whole lot more nuance. And I think that’s the biggest piece is that we need to get people outside of the binary thinking of everything is a yes or a no, and realize that oftentimes most things actually lie somewhere in between, and that it’s okay for them to be there.

Douglas Ferguson:

You know, coming back to your model, your advice of building relationships, crafting a perspective, and you know, speaking up, sharing that perspective, as well as being curious. If you think about it, those things all layer on each other pretty well because it’s hard to have a perspective if you haven’t gotten really curious and have a lot of understanding about how things work.

And then also, if you’re building up relationships and trust and getting to know folks through curious questions, then you start to understand their perspectives and you can become an advocate for their perspectives as well. Maybe even elevate them at times. So you know, it’s interesting, those things you laid out all kind of feed into each other, and if you use them together, they’re kind of self-reinforcing versus kind of independent pillars.

Caterina Rodriguez:

A thousand percent. And honestly, when you use them all together too, you start to realize that you become very well aware of people’s motivations in the room, even though they may not know each other. So because you’ve gotten really curious and you’ve built these relationships, and you start to shut them up to these spaces and lead in ways that engage rather than dictate, all of a sudden, I know that this person who constantly pushes back is because they are fearful that any change is going to be at the detriment of our impact with our stakeholders, right? Or I know that this person is consistently quiet and doesn’t engage, not because they’re uninterested, but because oftentimes they feel like they don’t even have the space to think and process. And so they just kind of sit back trying to catch up on everything that’s happened.

And all of a sudden you start to, as you build these relationships, you start to be able to understand a lot of the personalities that come into the space and their motivations behind it. And so you’re able to, it’s kind of like you said, as you build these relationships, as you lean into these spaces more, and you build this trust, all of a sudden I’m able to follow up with even more curiosity, but that’s tailored at helping each other see these different motivations and realizing we’re all actually committed to the same thing. We’re just coming at it from very different places. And none of those places are right or wrong, they just are.

And it’s very similar to in consulting practices where I may only work with a group for a very short period of time, or sometimes it’s like a one and done kind of deal. And even though I may not have the time to build relationships with everyone that’s going to be in the space, because of my experiences and practices internally, I’ve become really attuned to the fact that I’m not making assumptions about anybody. And so I’m going to get really curious, right? If something comes up in the room, if there’s some kind of reaction, or some kind of interesting statement or question or a non-reaction, I’ll get really curious and I’ll dig into it and I’ll ask that question.

Because I think that when people start to see that you are not just trying to take them through a process, but actually you’re taking the time to see them as people, they become a whole lot more willing to enter that space and to engage in that space. I think it honestly is about the fact that a lot of people aren’t used to the practice of being seen in a professional setting, right? It’s like, I’m heard, or I hear you, and that’s it. But to actually see someone and go beyond just kind of the surface level, we’re here to achieve this outcome and this is how we’re going to get there, versus, oh, but you may or may not be ready to completely go all that way because there’s something unresolved here, right?

It forces you to have to see people in their wholeness and not ask them to check themselves at the door, right? I think that’s the other big piece in professional settings is we’re expecting people to leave 75% of themselves at the door. You just bring like your brain with you to professionally engage versus actually know the space is meant for you to step inside of it fully and whatever surfaces is part of the process. I don’t expect you to check your emotions at the door. I don’t expect you to keep your disagreements to yourself. I don’t expect you to keep your fear or anxiety about what might be changing in the space to yourself.

I think when you invite people wholly, you start to see that they’re engaging wholly. But without that invitation, it’s not the norm. It’s not how we’ve created spaces in a professional setting before. And for me, that’s been one of the biggest pieces in being very intentional when I work with groups as a consultant versus internally, because like I said, internally have those relationships built. So when it’s groups that I don’t have those relationships with, how do I off the bat based off of my design, so how I’m designing the experience, how I think about the container I’m building, design becomes a whole lot more intentional there. And the decisions that I make around it before I even step in the door or in the virtual Zoom room.

Douglas Ferguson:

It’s all making me think about a comment you made earlier about the mindset shift versus just thinking about facilitation through techniques. And so, that’s making me more curious about that. What do these mindset shifts look like for you? What do you think is most important to acknowledge there?

Caterina Rodriguez:

Yeah, the biggest shift for me was, if I’m stepping into a space as a facilitator, right? Not a trainer, not a speaker, as a facilitator, I don’t have to hold all the answers. And in fact, I shouldn’t be the one holding all the answers.

And that was a huge shift for me for a couple of reasons. I think internally, one, it takes the pressure off. I think there’s a lot of fear around saying to someone, I don’t know, I’m curious what you all think about that instead, right? I almost think that people see that as a kind of failure instead of actually using that as a way to get curious and empower other people to be the experts of their own work or experiences.

So for me, it actually became way less high stakes when I didn’t feel like I had to have all the answers. But the other piece too is, it models for groups, the idea that if I don’t have all the answers, then you know, there’s a reason why we’re here as a group and I can start to rely on the wisdom of the group. I always love to say the wisdom of the group is great. It’s better than just myself.

That’s a big one. A big mindset shift was that, you know, I’m here to be a guide. I’m not here to be the expert. And then another big mindset shift is, you know, the fact that curiosity only leads to more curiosity. I think that, when I first started facilitating, I was very, you know, by the book of the activities or the methods that I was doing, it’s like, okay, so in this part it says, I do this for five minutes and then I ask these three questions and then we move on. It was very prescriptive.

And then as I started to shift in my entire mindset about facilitation, I became way less attentive to the steps and much more attentive to what was happening in the space, what was emerging. And so what that might have looked like is, yeah, I took them through these steps and I’m actually just going to ask him what’s coming up? And then I’m just going to start to riff off of the comments that come up. All of a sudden it becomes way less prescriptive, way less of a performance, and it becomes much more of a conversation.

So I think that’s the other piece too, is that I’m there to have and guide conversations. You know, I’m there to ask questions that help lead them to their own answers. I am there to help them work through the messiness that humans bring into a space versus, you know, my main goal is not to be an expert at what you all are doing.

So that’s kind of the other big shift as a facilitator, is that all of a sudden I, it’s not that I had to be a subject matter expert, it’s that I had to be almost like a gathering expert, if that makes sense. You know, it’s been fun because in my consulting work, there’s been some projects I’ve done where, and groups I’ve worked before. I’m like, I know nothing, absolutely nothing about what you do, but what I do know is people and how people work or don’t work when you bring them together into groups. That’s been another big shift, is shifting away from being a subject matter expert to really being kind of this, almost a human centered gatherer, if that makes sense.

Douglas Ferguson:

It absolutely makes sense. And the shift from technique to people is certainly, I think a growth edge, the maturity moment for facilitators. And some people don’t get out of it, some people stay in that mode of, I’ve got the tool and I’m going to go around looking for opportunities for this tool. And then it typically goes, I’ve got a tool, and then I’ve got a toolkit of tools, and then that longing for more, like how can I be more connected? How can I drive deeper outcomes?

And sometimes I see people coming to those conclusions when the tools fail them, when there’s a great laid plan and things go a little wrong. Or maybe they barely land the plane, but they feel like they were lucky to do so. And then reflecting, they think there’s something more here. So I’m curious, what do you think propelled you on this journey of making this shift from being about the process or the tools to being about the people, or looking for this meta broader, more holistic kind of look?

Caterina Rodriguez:

So I think obviously in addition to kind of just going out there, testing things, some going well, some going not great, learning from it, this is actually really taking me back to before I even got into this space, before I started at ADL, before even I was doing social work operations work, I actually got my start in the theological space. So I was actually training to be a hospital chaplain. And there is nothing certain about theology. There is nothing certain about chaplaincy. In fact, the only certainty is uncertainty, right? And the only ways in which you really engage with people are around big questions that have no answers.

And so it was interesting because it’s almost like there were these two separate sides to me, right? It was like the piece around like what I know and the piece around what I practice. And what I knew I was very comfortable with being in the messy uncertainty, but professionally, that was not the way that I was trained to practice. By the time that I got to ADL and the time that I have been a program manager and all these things, I feel like in professional settings, we’re very much trained to lean into the certainties and keep things as binary as possible.

I remember that at a certain point, right as I was facilitating and like I said, trying things, testing things out, learning from those experiments and refining, I started to also realize that I had kind of compartmentalized that side of myself because it almost felt like the things that I was practicing and the habits that I had formed in my theological practice or in my chaplaincy practice, were almost not at all something of value to my professional career. It was, and I think that actually came about because once I shifted, a lot of people would ask me, oh, so like, do you ever even use that? Like, I’m sure you don’t.

And it’s almost like, you know, people react to something weirdly enough that all of a sudden it makes you start to question, oh, so is that like a weird thing, I guess that’s not relevant, you know, and maybe I should kind of like table that or felt that, you know, it’s almost like you want to hide that part of yourself because it almost makes you an “other.” And it was really interesting that fast forwarding and getting more and more into facilitation, which meant I was getting more and more back into, I am literally choosing to stand in the messiest part of human collaboration as a facilitator.

It started to bring back the, almost the purposeness that I felt, around what was at the heart of chaplaincy, but in a very different way. And so all of a sudden I found it was, it was like a light bulb moment where I was like, that’s, that’s how this connects to this, because I have stood in the uncertainty. In fact, that’s all that I ever used to know.

And that’s where I saw that people needed me most, not me as Cat, but me as like what I brought to the space and how I might have guided them through that moment. And that realization is, I think what really ultimately propelled me from being practice focused to being people focused. And my facilitation is kind of bringing that part of myself back, that I had really hit and then compartmentalize like really deeply in a professional sense.

Douglas Ferguson:

So Cat, I think that takes us to a stopping point, because we’re nearing our end of our time here together. And I’d like to give you an opportunity to leave our listeners with a final thought.

Caterina Rodriguez:

My final thought, I would say, is to take the time to not just invite people, but expect people. So what I mean by that is if you are a person that works with groups in any way, right? Whether it’s you call yourself a facilitator, you call yourself a manager, you call yourself a cross collaborator, whatever it may be, whether it’s internal or in a consulting capacity, do not invite people into these kinds of spaces unless you’re ready to actually fully engage with people and their wholeness. There’s nothing more frustrating than being told, I want to invite you in, but I don’t want to see or hear you, or I don’t want to see or hear those parts of you.

What I would say is lean into the uncertainty and the messiness of what it means to be human and collaborate humanly. Because when you take the human piece out of it, all you have left is empty process, if that makes sense. And that’s when you get people who are not connecting, who are not committing, who also are just not included. I would tell people that the only certainty of facilitation is uncertainty. The only certainty of working with people is that they’re going to be messy and unpredictable. And as facilitators, we have a very unique opportunity to be able to step into those moments that no one else would, and help make some magic happen.

Douglas Ferguson:

I love that. And I think one thing to remind folks of is that in order to do this, you have to have some hard conversations about what makes you as a person uncomfortable.

Caterina Rodriguez:

Oh, yeah. And that all starts with you, right? So if you are not keenly aware of what makes you uncomfortable and how you move through that, you’re not going to be able to do that for other people. It’s kind of almost like the mantra of, you can’t fill someone else’s cup before you fill your own, right? Or else you’re trying to pour from an empty cup or the airplane thing of like before you try and help someone with their own oxygen mask, put it on yourself. It’s the same thing with facilitation. If you have not done the work for yourself, you are not going to be prepared to do it for other people,

Douglas Ferguson:

Or you might dismiss or ignore someone that you know is going to behave in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable or you find challenging. So you just find ways of engineering your process to avoid them.

Caterina Rodriguez:

Yeah, that’s so true. That’s the other thing about, there is such a thing as over-engineering, and it happens often in facilitation. And I think it happens because people are afraid of conflict, they’re afraid of tension, and oftentimes it’s in that conflict and tension that you’ll actually find the right path forward. Thinking about as conflict and tension almost being kind of your responsibility to actually tend to, versus something to ignore or dismiss or try to avoid.

And I think people will not be able to do that unless they see you model it first. I think that’s the other piece too, is as facilitators, we have to, like I said earlier, we truly have to be willing to model, to walk the walk. And so that’s the other piece around facilitation, is that there really is no destination point. It is truly an ongoing growth journey. There is no point in which I say, I’ve learned all the skills, I’ve learned all the methods. Every time that I facilitate, I’m learning something new. I’m taking questions back with me, and I am seeking out more wisdom from others, which is, I think the other piece too, that I want to leave people with is, if you are in this field of facilitation, find a community of facilitators to plug into.

Because there’s that really old proverb that goes, how does it go? It goes, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And facilitation is definitely a craft in which you cannot go far without going together. It takes all types and it takes all kinds. And once groups see that, you embody that, they’ll understand that for themselves, and they’ll be able to start to work with people that think differently and show up differently from them. Don’t just invite people, expect people. Expect them in their messy wholeness.

Douglas Ferguson:

Amazing. Thank you so much, Cat. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you. I look forward to chatting again sometime soon.

Caterina Rodriguez:

Thank you so much, Douglas. It was awesome to be here. And yeah, look forward to many more chats to come.

Douglas Ferguson:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of The Facilitation Lab podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review and be sure to subscribe and receive updates when new episodes are released.

We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog where I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics, and collaboration, voltagecontrol.com.

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I’ve lived in Austin for 25 years, and while I haven’t immersed myself in every SXSW, I’ve managed to participate somewhat every single year I’ve been here. It’s been a big part of my Austin experience. As a musician, I’ve played official showcases, unofficial showcases and even alternative outsider festivals. As a startup founder, I’ve attended VC parties, client activations, networking events, and the beloved Fogo De Chow“meat-ups”, if you know, you know! In recent years, I have mainly been volunteering as a mentor and judge, which has been a wonderful experience in contributing to the ecosystem.

This year, Voltage Control partnered with SXSW to offer our Workshop Design process to all of their workshop facilitators, where we hosted several live sessions in January to help workshop facilitators prepare for their SXSW sessions. With the global success of our Facilitation Lab meetups we also thought it was a great opportunity to bring the meetup to SXSW as an official meetup. Then, just because we had to go all in, we ran a workshop on AI Teammates, to explore team collaboration use cases for generative AI. 

SXSW is always brimming with innovation, creativity, and connection. However, this year through our meetup and workshop we had the opportunity to observe something especially compelling—a deep yearning for genuine, meaningful human-to-human interactions amid all of the passive talks and media consumption. Both of our sessions offered rich insights and genuine connections that we felt were important to share more broadly with the community. Read on for a detailed exploration of the key topics and themes that emerged as we reflected on our SXSW activations.

Creating Meaningful Connections

Our Facilitation Lab meetup sought to elevate interaction beyond the typical exchanges of business cards and superficial networking. As attendees entered, we warmly greeted each person, handing out customized “We Connect” name tags that featured prompts like “Something that’s on my mind right now…” or “I’m curious about…” This simple yet thoughtful intervention quickly transformed initial interactions from polite small talk to engaging conversations rooted in personal interests and genuine curiosity. For instance, one participant humorously noted he spent the entire day with his prompt about ‘remaining grounded under pressure,’ sparking deeper conversations even outside the meetup context. These intentional threshold moments proved pivotal, shifting the energy in the room and setting the tone for sustained and meaningful connections throughout the event.

Erik mentioned to me that he’d forgotten to remove his name badge, and it continued sparking meaningful conversations throughout the day. Inspired by a recent coaching session on the power of silence as a facilitation tool, I chose “Silence” as my own badge prompt. Interestingly—and humorously—some attendees interpreted this as me signaling a need for quiet reflection rather than a conversation starter. Clearly, it’s worth choosing your prompt carefully!

Equally impactful were the interactive posters that posed provocative “How Might We” questions around the room. Participants eagerly engaged with these prompts, leaving behind sticky notes filled with thoughtful observations, authentic vulnerabilities, and creative ideas. These carefully structured, yet simple, tools effectively lowered conversational barriers, inviting authentic exchanges and meaningful reflections.

Notably, we observed attendees continuing their conversations long after the scheduled meetup ended, underscoring the success of our deliberate design in fostering sustained engagement. This experience reinforced for us—and hopefully our attendees—that intentional facilitation of human connection can lead to powerful, lasting interactions that extend far beyond any singular event.

Exploring Loneliness & Vulnerability

One unexpectedly resonant theme from our meetup was loneliness—a timely topic that surfaced repeatedly, even before Michelle Obama’s keynote on the subject. Participants openly shared their experiences of loneliness, highlighting its prevalence and impact across professional settings. Discussions around this theme revealed how critically loneliness intersects with facilitation, community building, and organizational leadership.

Participants emphasized the importance of creating environments where vulnerability is not only permitted but encouraged, seeing it as a catalyst for combating isolation and fostering deeper connections. Many suggested practical strategies, including dedicated moments within events for genuine personal exchange, structured affinity groups, and conscious efforts to normalize sharing vulnerabilities as part of organizational culture.

One compelling nuance that emerged in our discussions was the particular isolation facilitators often experience. While facilitators dedicate themselves to creating inclusive spaces that support and encourage vulnerability among others, attendees openly acknowledged how rarely facilitators themselves receive reciprocal support. This dynamic sparked insightful exchanges around the critical need to intentionally build community and support networks specifically for facilitators—spaces designed to nurture and sustain those whose roles inherently involve emotional labor and continuous support of others. This recognition deepened the collective understanding that addressing loneliness is not only about structured team-building but also about providing consistent, authentic support for those who hold space.

Reimagining the Art of Meetings

Meetings often carry negative connotations—viewed as tedious obligations rather than opportunities for genuine collaboration and innovation. During our meetup, attendees enthusiastically discussed ways to reinvent meetings using facilitation principles. The message was clear: stop “meeting” and start “designing collaboratively,” shifting from passive consumption of content toward active participation.

Innovative ideas emerged, including flipping traditional meeting agendas—prioritizing interactive engagement before addressing routine content—to ensure participant energy and creativity are maximized. A provocative attendee suggestion humorously yet pointedly captured this sentiment: “Any meeting over one hour is a waste of time.” This underscored a shared desire among attendees to prioritize engagement, interactivity, and co-creation in all meeting formats.

Our discussions also highlighted the necessity of making meetings purpose-driven, interactive, and intentional, transforming them from informational sessions into collaborative experiences that actively engage all participants. The clear takeaway for facilitators and business leaders is that intentionality and thoughtful design dramatically improve outcomes, making meetings more impactful and deeply satisfying for everyone involved.

Harnessing Conflict for Growth

One particularly insightful conversation during the meetup revolved around the theme of conflict—often perceived negatively but recognized here as a powerful opportunity for growth and stronger relationships. Attendees expressed the importance of normalizing conflict within teams, treating it not as a failure but as a natural byproduct of diverse perspectives working toward innovation.

To better leverage conflict, participants recommended simulating difficult conversations and scenarios proactively. Such practice not only prepares teams to handle future challenges constructively but also helps establish trust and clear boundaries around how conflicts can be handled effectively. This proactive approach allows teams to feel secure exploring differing opinions, leading to breakthroughs rather than breakdowns.

Further, principles of non-violent communication, depersonalizing disagreements, and establishing trust were frequently suggested as essential facilitation skills. This collective insight reinforced the power of intentional conflict management as a critical facilitation capability, ultimately fostering team cohesion, mutual respect, and collective resilience.

AI as a Dynamic Teammate

At our AI Teammates workshop, the conversation shifted dramatically as participants reconsidered their perceptions of AI—transforming their view from seeing it merely as a utilitarian tool to recognizing its potential as a dynamic teammate. This shift was vividly illustrated when an attendee, deeply familiar with AI in his professional life, experienced an “aha” moment, expressing excitement at recognizing AI’s fuller potential to engage and facilitate.

This cognitive shift emerged through our intentional design. We strategically used persona cards to introduce participants to new perspectives on AI, prompting deeper reflection on roles like historian, synthesizer, challenger, and optimist. Attendees discovered how leveraging AI in these roles could greatly enrich team discussions, sparking creativity and critical reflection.

A particularly powerful moment illustrating this cognitive shift occurred during our AI Teammates workshop. One attendee, who identified himself as deeply embedded professionally in AI technologies, experienced a profound “aha” moment as we explored AI’s collaborative roles. He candidly shared with the group that, despite his extensive use of AI tools, this workshop was the first time he genuinely saw AI’s deeper collaborative potential—not merely as a functional assistant but as an authentic partner in team interactions. Emotionally moved by this realization, he said the experience gave him “goosebumps,” capturing perfectly the transformative possibilities when facilitators intentionally design experiences that prompt meaningful shifts in perspective.

The workshop highlighted how AI, when positioned thoughtfully, could initiate conversations and engage team members who might otherwise hesitate to participate. In essence, AI provided a neutral voice, catalyzing richer dialogue and deeper insights. For teams hesitant about direct engagement, AI offered a safe starting point, a powerful insight into how technology can be a genuine collaborator rather than merely an information tool.

Exploring Practical Applications and Concerns with AI

Participants left our workshop inspired to experiment with new AI tools such as Claude, Perplexity, and Miro Sidekick, seeing firsthand their potential to enhance real-time facilitation. The excitement was palpable as attendees brainstormed practical uses—such as using AI to facilitate deeper reflections, structure conversations, and provide new insights during collaborative sessions.

Yet, despite widespread enthusiasm, participants also candidly discussed concerns around security, privacy, and integration of AI into organizational practices. Attendees from Germany notably highlighted slower regional adoption due to institutional hesitance and rigorous privacy standards. Addressing these concerns became a vital element of our workshop, emphasizing the importance of thoughtful, context-sensitive integration of AI into diverse organizational cultures.

Despite these valid concerns, the workshop’s overwhelming takeaway was excitement about AI’s untapped potential. Attendees saw clear opportunities to enrich their practices through these emerging technologies, feeling empowered and equipped to thoughtfully advocate for and practically implement AI as a meaningful participant in their teams and meetings.

Crossing Thresholds for Transformation

Both our meetup and workshop underscored the critical importance of thoughtfully designed thresholds—both physical entry into spaces and cognitive entry into new ideas. By consciously crafting these moments, we enabled attendees to shift from routine thinking into new possibilities, deeply enhancing their event experience.

Participants expressed gratitude for small yet impactful interventions, such as the persona cards we handed out while attendees were waiting in line for the workshop. Given the unique context of SXSW, where attendees often queue up 45 minutes or more in advance, the cards provided a delightful and unexpected moment of connection and reflection. As participants selected a card that best represented their approach or attitude toward AI, spontaneous conversations quickly blossomed among previously disconnected attendees. People eagerly compared their chosen personas—whether Historian, Synthesizer, Challenger, or Optimist—sparking curiosity, laughter, and immediate bonds. These thoughtfully designed threshold experiences didn’t just occupy waiting time; they actively reshaped the atmosphere, transitioning attendees from passive anticipation to active engagement and collaboration, dramatically influencing their openness, interactions, and reflections throughout the rest of the workshop.

And the big payoff was crossing cognitive thresholds around their use of AI demonstrated facilitation’s power to shift perspectives profoundly. Attendees repeatedly shared that thoughtfully guided experiences allowed them to see familiar tools and interactions in entirely new ways, demonstrating how effective facilitation can lead to significant shifts in understanding and collaboration practices.

Reflect, Experiment, and Engage

Our experiences at SXSW demonstrated the incredible potential at the intersection of human connection, vulnerability, thoughtful facilitation, and AI integration. These moments provided rich insights and clear evidence that intentional facilitation can profoundly reshape organizational culture and interpersonal dynamics.

We invite you—our community of facilitators, leaders, students, and alumni—to embrace and carry these insights into your own practice. Experiment boldly with facilitation techniques, reimagine your meetings for deeper impact, navigate conflict constructively, and thoughtfully explore AI as an active, engaged teammate.

Join us at our upcoming Facilitation Lab events and continue exploring these themes with us. Together, let’s facilitate spaces where human connection, innovation, and meaningful change flourish.

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When I stepped onto the stage to kick off Facilitation Lab Summit 2025, our 7th annual facilitation summit, I took a moment to acknowledge the deep appreciation and humility I felt as I reflected on our seven remarkable years and journey that brought us all together. Full of exuberance, curiosity, and optimism for what we all might create together, the energy in the room was palpable. In the days since, I kept telling people how special it felt, as if it were a barometer of great things to come. 

The summit is an annual experience dedicated to showcasing our talented and engaging alumni and fostering an environment of shared curiosity and practice. This year was filled with inspiration, learning, and growth. Facilitators from all backgrounds came together to engage in thought-provoking sessions, participate in interactive activities, and share their expertise. Whether you attended or are hearing about it for the first time, here’s a recap of what made this year’s summit unforgettable.

Summit Highlights

I’m deeply proud of all eight of our alumni who facilitated the conference this year. They did an exceptional job of guiding everyone through thoughtful exploration of concepts alongside hands-on exploration. In the coming weeks, we release videos of each of the workshops. In the meantime, here are some key highlights:

Day 1: Laying the Foundation for Transformation

Our summit kicked off with an electrifying session by Skye Idehen-Osunde on building credibility and psychological safety in workshops. The Safety Net session set the tone for the day, equipping facilitators with practical tools to foster environments where everyone feels safe, valued, and heard. Skye’s high-energy delivery was the perfect catalyst for the learning and exploration that would unfold throughout the day.

Next, Alyssa Coughlin took us through Change Through Stories: Capturing Hearts and Aligning Minds, a powerful workshop on the role of storytelling in change management. Alyssa demonstrated how compelling narratives can unite teams and inspire collaborative action, offering attendees a framework for creating stories that resonate and drive transformation.

After a brief networking break, Kathy Ditmore led a session on Mapping Your Change Journey. Kathy dove deep into the complexities of change initiatives, guiding participants through the essential steps to successfully align teams and navigate the challenges of process redesign. Her interactive exercises, including pre-mortem analysis, provided real-world tools to help facilitators tackle change with confidence and purpose.

In the afternoon, Dom Michalec brought a groundbreaking approach to the table with his session, Facilitating Transformation: How Small Changes Change Everything. Drawing on his expertise in Behavior Design, Dom illustrated how tiny, intentional shifts can lead to massive transformations in both personal and professional settings. His insights were both practical and inspiring, leaving attendees with a newfound superpower: the ability to create lasting habits and facilitate meaningful change.

As the day wrapped up, we gathered to honor the incredible contributions of our community. The Facilitation Lab Summit 2025 Awards celebrated some outstanding individuals whose dedication and innovation have left a lasting impact on the field of facilitation:

• Innovation Award: Dan Walker for reshaping how facilitators engage teams with creative techniques.
• Growth Award: Theresa Ledesma for her continuous learning and professional development, making a positive impact in her community.
• Community Award: Robin Neidorf for her mentorship and fostering collaboration within the facilitation community.
• Impact Award: Dirk Van Onsem for his profound influence on driving organizational change and empowering teams to tackle societal challenges.

These incredible facilitators exemplify the power of facilitation in driving positive change, and we were thrilled to celebrate their achievements.

Day 2: Deepening the Practice and Creating Lasting Connections

Day 2 of the summit began with Dr. Karyn Edwards, PCC, as she introduced The Secrets of Applying Executive Coaching to Facilitation. Karyn’s session on non-directional coaching techniques provided valuable insights into how facilitators can create self-led discovery and foster deeper learning within groups. Her session was a transformative experience for attendees looking to refine their facilitation skills and deepen their impact.

Next, JJ Rogers led us in exploring Radical Acts of Delight. In this lively and inspiring session, JJ encouraged facilitators to infuse joy and creativity into their practice, creating high-trust environments where participants feel engaged and connected. The session was a reminder that delight and creativity are essential to making facilitation memorable and impactful.

After lunch, Caterina Rodriguez brought us into the world of nonverbal communication in her workshop Enhancing Facilitation Through Nonverbal Communication. This interactive session highlighted the critical role nonverbal cues play in building inclusivity and connection. Participants learned how cultural values shape communication styles and gained practical tools to enhance their facilitation by listening beyond words.

The summit closed with a truly special session by Elena Farden titled Consent as Ceremony: Learnings from Nurturing Safe Connections in Indigenous Play Parties. Elena’s exploration of cultural practices of consent and gratitude provided profound insights into creating environments where respect, trust, and connection flourish. This session offered a unique perspective on how cultural teachings can enhance facilitation, fostering deeper connections and more inclusive experiences.

Key Takeaways from the Summit

While the summit was full of insightful sessions, here are some key takeaways that resonated across the two days:

• Psychological safety and credibility are crucial for creating impactful workshops where everyone feels valued.
• Storytelling is a powerful tool for fostering change and aligning teams around a shared vision.
• Small, intentional behavior changes can lead to meaningful transformations.
• Nonverbal communication plays a pivotal role in creating inclusive and engaging environments.
• Infusing delight and creativity into facilitation fosters greater engagement and trust.

Join the Community and Stay Connected

Although the summit has ended, the journey doesn’t have to stop here. Continue engaging with facilitators from around the world through our Community Hub. Share resources, exchange ideas, and keep the momentum going!

Join the Community Hub

Looking Ahead to the 2026 Summit

Excited for next year? Early bird tickets for the 2026 Facilitation Lab Summit are now available at a discounted rate, but don’t wait—these tickets are only available until August! Secure your spot early and save on registration.

Get 2026 Tickets Now

Thank you to everyone who made Facilitation Lab Summit 2025 a success. We can’t wait to see you next year as we continue to inspire, engage, and transform through the power of facilitation.

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“I saw her facilitate and I thought, “Wow, she’s really drawing things out of the group instead of telling them what to do.” That was so powerful, and I thought to myself, “I want to do that. I want to be able to do that type of work someday.”- Dr. Karyn Edwards, PCC

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson converses with Dr. Karyn Edwards, an organizational psychologist and executive coach. Dr. Edwards shares her journey into facilitation and leadership, starting at Carlson Wagonlit Travel. She highlights the influence of her mentor, Julianne Wiese, and discusses overcoming imposter syndrome and challenges in leadership roles. The episode delves into the importance of “power skills” like emotional intelligence and adaptability. Dr. Edwards also talks about her current work, including writing for the Association for Training and Development and exploring organizational culture change programs. The episode underscores the transformative power of coaching.

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About the Guest

Dr. Karyn Edwards, PCC is the founder and CEO of Abloom Coaching. In her work, she takes an evidence-based approach to bringing professional coaching and personal development to leaders so they can take control of their future. The work that she does is rooted in her experience working in organizations for 25+ years as a senior leader with the majority of that time in the talent management arena. She has a solid understanding of what leaders experience and what organizations are looking for in their top leaders.

Karyn earned a Ph.D. in industrial and organizational psychology, a master’s degree in organizational management, and certificates in business process improvement and professional and executive coaching. Karyn is certified in PROSCI’s model as a change practitioner and has supported the process of change management for many years in the roles she has held. Karyn is a member of the APA and of the Society of Psychologists in Leadership. As a speaker and expert facilitator, Karyn motivates organizations and individuals by focusing on leadership essentials, powerful storytelling, and practical strategies. Karyn regularly speaks at industry conferences and as a keynote for organizations. Karyn is a trusted advisor who connects the dots to help leaders and organizations meet the current challenges and those that lie ahead.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

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Transcript

Douglas:

Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab podcast, where I speak with Voltage Control certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method agnostic approach so you can enjoy a wide range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances of enabling meaningful group experiences. This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening.

If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our Facilitation Lab Community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in real time with peers. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab. And if you’d like to learn more about our 12-week Facilitation Certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com. Today, I’m with Dr. Karyn Edwards from a Abloom Consulting, where she supports leaders and organizations as an organizational psychologist, executive coach, and leadership development expert. Welcome to the show, Karyn.

Karyn:

Thanks for having me, Douglas. I’m really excited to be here.

Douglas:

Yes. Fantastic to chat. It’s been a minute since we had a moment to sit down and talk about facilitation and coaching, and all the wonderful things that you do.

Karyn:

Yeah. It’s one of my favorite topics to talk about, so thanks for having me.

Douglas:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s get into it. So, let’s start off with how you got your start. Could you take us back to that moment at Carlson Wagonlit Travel, where you first saw Facilitation in action? Gosh, am I remembering, was it Julianne Wiese?

Karyn:

Yeah., so I worked for Carlson Wagonlit. So, it’s a French company, part of it. So, it looks like Wagonlit, but it’s Wagonlit. I worked there for a long time and I met Julianne Wiese. Gosh, she was part of a merger that the organization did, one of many. And I was in a session that she was facilitating, and I thought I had done technical training for a long time. I actually started off in banking, was a bank teller during college, and then I started training for the bank. And so, I had done all this regulation and technical, how to use a computer and there’s technology systems.

But I saw her facilitate and I thought, wow, she’s really drawing things out of the group, that instead of telling them what to do, that I thought was so powerful. And I thought to myself, I want to do that. I want to be able to do that type of work someday. And she was really a role model for me. And actually, we’re still good friends to this day, so we’re actually colleagues now. So, she was a huge part of my career development.

Douglas:

Did you ever get to collaborate with her on designs or sessions before?

Karyn:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, not in that job, which was funny. So, I left that role and I went to go work for a big utility here where I live in Arizona. And when I got into a leadership role, I called her because she was a coach. And so, she actually supported me as a leader, as I was learning how to do some transitions, and figuring out how do you get along with people and all that fun stuff. And then the present day, she actually helped me figure out that as I was deciding what I wanted to do next, what was my next act after working at Corporate America for 30 years. I got this PhD and she said, “I feel like you just really could do this on your own and you’d be great.” And she’s a super encouraging person, so she’s played a lot of roles in my career trajectory. She’s listening, shout out, because she’s an amazing coach and amazing person, too.

Douglas:

That’s fantastic. Isn’t it great to have those folks from time to time to just push you a little bit, push you out of the nest a little?

Karyn:

Totally. Yeah. She had to drag me out of the nest, but she did it.

Douglas:

So, you mentioned a moment there when her memory came back to you when you were finding yourself in that new leadership position. What was it like for you when you had that opportunity to step into leadership? What were some of the things you were noticing and feeling as that was fresh and new for you?

Karyn:

Yeah. So, I had been in leadership for a while. When I took that job, I had led people in different types of roles and different organizations and things like that. But what was different about that job is it wasn’t in my area of expertise. So, I had shifted. They asked me to shift. They were sort of doing leadership rotations out from a development role and into an operations role. And it was in a call center and it was customer service. And I was working with a lot of frontline leaders and just finding myself as a duck out of water, so to speak on, how do I motivate people? Because most of the time I was working with people that were trying to learn a job and they already had internal motivation. These folks already had their job, and didn’t necessarily need me to do their job and already knew what they were doing.

So, it was just a completely different experience. And I found myself kind of rudderless, I think as we were talking earlier about some things. And just sort of flailing about, trying to figure out what’s right and how do I empower people. I had some natural abilities, in terms of getting people to talk with me and that type of thing. But how do you lead people when you don’t even know what they do? How do you lead people when you’re not the expert at the thing? And so, it was a very unsettling experience. And so, I reached out to her and said, “Hey, I know you’re not only a great facilitator, but also a coach. And I could really use some help figuring out how do I navigate this space that I’m in.”

Douglas:

Yeah. So, what was the unlock for you that really brought things into focus, the rudder, so to speak?

Karyn:

Yeah. So, at the time I was having just this feeling of I didn’t know what I was doing. Sort of this imposter syndrome feeling of, pretty soon people thought I was going to be great at this job and now they’re going to find out that I don’t really have any idea what I’m doing. And so, working with her… And I’ve learned this too as a coach over time, is that it’s not so much about what people know technically about their job. It’s how do you work with other people. That’s really what at the end of the day is what trips up most people in leadership roles. So, they used to call them soft skills and I call them power skills. It’s all these skills of how do you appreciate, how do you get along with other people? How do you maximize their potential and basically get out of their way?

And so, she really helped me with really overcoming that imposter syndrome piece. And it’s funny, I just took a session the other day on the same topic. And it’s something like 70% of people experienced this at some point, so it’s very common. But at the time I didn’t know that. I thought I was the only one that was thinking that I was feeling that way. And so, that was a big rudder establishing, putting the rudder back in the water, so to speak, of, okay, you don’t have to know what they do. What you have to do is help them figure out where we’re headed and then how they can help us get there. And so, for me, that was sort of a light bulb moment.

Douglas:

Were there any specific techniques or tools, or even just things that clicked as you were starting to put that into practice?

Karyn:

I think watching people do what they do, and getting out of their way, and realizing that the solutions that they came up with were way better than what I would’ve ever thought of because they know what they’re doing. And that my job was to set a vision of where we’re headed. It wasn’t to be in their day to day or tell them how to do everything. Now, it’s not to say that there weren’t issues that came up from time to time that were in the weeds and they would ask me for help or that type of thing. But when I think of where I spent the majority of my time, it was on what are we doing next, not what we’re doing right now. And so, I think that’s a distinguishing piece as well of what I learned in that job.

Douglas:

At what point did you start to develop your experience in organizational psychology?

Karyn:

So, it was in the same role that I was talking about earlier. And I decided to go back to school and get a doctorate, because it’s pretty common in my field to get a doctorate. And around that time, as I was working on my doctorate, I was thinking, and so was the company, how are we going to use somebody with a PhD? And at first I was insulted. I was like, well, gosh, there’s a lot of things you can use someone for. But I’m not really an academic. I’m more of a practitioner style. And so, I decided to switch jobs and I wound up moving over to Choice Hotels. And in that position, I really got the opportunity to take all these things that I had learned plus all this experience, and put them all together and help with things like establishing leadership development programs, and doing succession planning, and coaching people internally within the organization.

I didn’t have the coaching credential that I do now at that time, but I was doing a combination of coaching, and consulting, and helping people figure out… And I really felt a natural attraction to that part of my work the most and really enjoyed it. And so, IO psychology or industrial organizational psychology is the study of people in the workplace. And it has a lot of different facets to it. There’s some parts around assessing leaders, there’s parts around how organizations are structured to make them successful. And the part that I gravitate towards is around leaders and leadership effectiveness overall.

Douglas:

And in your doctorate, was there a particular area of focus in your research?

Karyn:

Yeah. So, my dissertation was on the leadership style that leaders have and its impact on employee engagement. So, that was the overall, the 300-page document that you can go out and read if you want to. But Choice, I’m really grateful to them because they let me do the research at the company, which in an academic setting is very unusual, because a lot of research is done on college students. And they’re not necessarily representative of leaders and organizations who’ve been in their jobs for 10 or 20 years, so it was really nice that I got to do that internally. And the research that I found was that leaders who are servant leaders really have the biggest impact in terms of employee engagement. And so, that premise in terms of the different types of leadership was one of the findings, so kind of interesting.

Douglas:

Yeah. Were there any things that really surprised you or caught you off guard as you were conducting your research?

Karyn:

I guess how many people were interested in helping me. So, I put out a survey in the organization and asked people to identify their current leader’s leadership style based on some definitions, that we had three different definitions. So, one was the servant leader approach. The second was, I guess I’ll call it a line manager style. I’m not giving the academic terms, but somebody who is in the day-to-day, giving direction, constant. And then their last one is these hands-off leaders that maybe think they’re giving a lot of autonomy, but they’re really removed and distance from the people that report to them.

And the servant leader was the most effective leader. The distance leader was the least effective leader. And the people in the middle get some successes, but others don’t appreciate that style as much. So, anyway, I guess, how many people completed the survey of a 2,000 person at the time organization? About 900 people completed the survey, which is a pretty good survey response.

Douglas:

Oh, wow.

Karyn:

Yeah. So, I was really appreciative. And like I said, I’ll always be grateful to that group for helping me out with that.

Douglas:

Yeah. That’s super cool, that not only were receptive to you doing the work, but then also supportive of the research and the degree as well.

Karyn:

Yeah. I remember when I went to one of the town halls after I had finished my program, and I was speaking about some business topic and I just stopped for a second. I said, “Hey, I just wanted to let you know you can now call me Dr. K, because I finished my doctor.” And I got this huge standing ovation, which was again one of those moments where I was like, wow. I think always appreciating there’s so many people that want to help out there, and sometimes you just have to ask.

Douglas:

Yeah, no doubt. It’s interesting that I feel like so many surveys are like self-assessment kind of surveys, or they take some sort of long evaluation and then it puts them in a bucket. Interesting that your approach was having the direct reports categorize their leaders. And I guess I’m curious, what were some of the qualities that people would use to distinguish between someone who’s more directive versus someone that’s more servant leader? Because the off hands is like, that’s kind of a very clear bucket. They’re just not present. But there’s some subtle differences I think, between the other two or there could be on perception. And so, I’m curious, what are some of those qualifiers that direct reports were latching onto, ways that they were differentiating?

Karyn:

Yeah. Well, what’s interesting, in the research, we gave them very specific academic definitions that are part of a leadership model. So, they didn’t really have a lot of latitude to give us like, “Hey, this leader has these certain traits.” But what we were able to tie it to was, once we had… We had the list of leaders in the organization, we had the people who responded, and then what we were able to do is look at the engagement scores for the organization of those leaders. And to see if there’s a correlation between, hey, this person’s been described by the majority of their team, that they’re a servant leader. And oh, let’s take a look at their engagement score and their engagement score correlated. And same thing with the hands-off leaders. Their engagement scores were lower in the organization’s results. And so, it was just really interesting to see them define it and then watch it show up in a completely different survey that another organization put out. And just correlate those two things together was fascinating.

Douglas:

Yeah. It’s hard to ignore when there’s definitive clusters. It’s like, okay, well, that’s there and what kind of meaning are we going to apply to it? So, in your mind, I guess for the listener, what are some of those qualities, or how do y’all define those academic definitions for the directive type leader versus the more servant leader?

Karyn:

Yeah. So, depending on which research you read and different models, some of these models have been in place for a long time. And when we’re doing a PhD, you have to lean on more academic definitions in order to get through that process. But I would say in practical terms today, what a servant leader is, is somebody who has the ability to put their own interests behind that of the person that they’re trying to help. And so, it’s a little bit of a ego definition, too, where you sort of have to say, “Yeah, I’m the leader, but my job isn’t to be the one to take all the credit or to stand out. But my recognition is actually going to come because of the way in which I support my team and the work that gets done through my team, versus the work that I do as an individual.”

And I think that’s one of the biggest distinguishing factors of people that move up successfully in organizations, is they understand that switch that you have to make when you go into senior leadership. So, you’re not getting the work done through your own self work that you do, but you’re getting work done through the people that work for you. And it’s a hard transition to make, because all through your career, all the way up, up until that point, you’ve been rewarded and validated for the things that you’ve done versus other people around you, or maybe you’ve been part of a team or something like that. But to actually have the recognition given to you based on how effective you are at helping other people is quite different and quite vulnerable. It’s a vulnerable position to be in.

Douglas:

Yeah. And are you finding most of your coaching clients are in this moment of transition where they’re needing to redefine their leadership style?

Karyn:

Yeah. I would say most of my clients are in some moment of transition. They’re either moving from a senior level position into an executive team, or they’re already an executive, and now they’re… The world is changing so rapidly that they’re finding themselves in, I don’t know what the right word is, complexities that they have never experienced before. And so, even though they’ve been an executive before, they’re now experiencing that imposter syndrome that we talked about earlier for themselves, because it’s untested, it’s net new challenges that have not been present. Like AI for most organizations is net new. There’s nothing like it that’s ever been before and it’s continually evolving. And there’s sometimes struggling with, “Okay, how do I integrate this new thing? And how do I show up as a leader while I’m leading all these people through this significant processes and times of change?”

Douglas:

What’s the most common transition? It sounds like, ultimately, you’re trying to help people get to that servant leader mindset or from that frame of reference. What sorts of positions are they? Are they exhibiting those behaviors but needing to refine them? Are they more stuck in the declarative type of leadership or hands-off? Or what are you finding that’s the most common transition folks go through?

Karyn:

That’s a good question. I think the common thing, if I were to boil it down, is transition. So, for some people, it can be being promoted and their scope is expanding. For other people, there’s something that’s been observed or noticed that they really need to change in order to be effective. And they have a blind spot and they’re not seeing it, but they need to transition in terms of behavior. Other people are buying a business or starting a business and they’re trying to figure out, “I used to work for a company and now I’m an entrepreneur.” And those are pretty significant transitions. Some people I’ve been working with are thinking about retirement. And okay, so, how do I get out of this identity? And maybe that’s the word, Douglas, is it’s an identity shift from, “Hey, I’m this person at work and then now what? Now that I’m not going to be working anymore or working in a traditional sense, what’s my identity?” So, a lot of work is around that concept of identity.

Douglas:

Yeah. You mentioned transitions. And anytime folks are changing or going through some kind of transition, identity is such a core part of that. The story I like to tell in regards to this is when so many companies were going through cloud migrations, digital transformations, there’s so many roles that had to shift. You were a sysadmin at a company that had a lot of servers inside of a data center. Now they’re migrating everything to the cloud. It doesn’t mean you don’t have a job at that company. But if you only think of yourself as a sysadmin, it’s going to be really difficult. And so, a big part of change is that identity component.

Karyn:

Absolutely. Yeah. And it’s hard. I mean, I think we all have this sort of self-awareness and self-perception of who we are and how we operate within what we know, what we’re experts in. And then somebody comes along and rattles that cage or puts a big change in place. I’ve worked in a couple organizations that have gone from waterfall to agile, and just mind-bending to people to have to work in these short sprints. And their jobs were completely changed in terms of how they operated. And that’s hard, because there’s the brain. A lot of neuroscience stuff here, too. We like to be able to predict what’s coming next.

Douglas:

Certainty.

Karyn:

And when that gets interrupted, it’s like you can go into the fight, flight, freeze mode of I don’t know what to do. And that’s where, as a coach, it can also be helpful to help people recognize, through either helping them just through the questioning process of what I call non-directive coaching. And actually comes from Clare Norman and her work. It’s called The Transformational Coach. And that process of, hey, you know the answer. It’s within you. We just got to clear all this clutter out that’s getting in the way of your clear thought process because you’re under stress.

And so, the other thing I like to talk about is we are both thinking creatures, but we also have chemistry going on in our body at the same time. So, when we have stress responses, your brain actually doesn’t work the way that it should. So, if you’re getting all these micro stressors all day long of, “Oh, my gosh, I don’t know what I’m doing. Oh, my gosh, they changed this again and ugh, I don’t like that.” Then you’re getting a lot of cortisol. Cortisol interferes with your ability to use your prefrontal cortex, and your center of clear and logical thinking is diminished. And so, as a coach, I also help people recognize these patterns that we get into of stress response. And then the third thing that I do is I use assessments to help them understand how they’re wired, because we all come into the world with certain personality traits and then we get raised in certain ways.

And so, the nature-nurture debate has been solved. It’s both. And then when you get into the workplace, you’ve made all of these compensatory strategies to be able to function as a leader. And some of those have worked. And now that you’re ascending into a new scope or a broader team, or a different job, some of those strategies all of a sudden aren’t working for you anymore. And you got to figure out new strategies. And so, working with someone to help think about all of that and then figure out what’s right for you and how do you want to show up, but with the fundamental belief that you are whole and capable and competent. And we all need sometimes for somebody to listen and then help us figure out where we go next. And I love doing that. It’s my favorite part of my job.

Douglas:

Yeah. So, when you think about these transitions and helping individuals work through it, even mentioned the agile transformation, similar to the cloud example I gave. People are having to go through identity shifts. Do you often find that when you’re doing the one-on-one coaching that opens up needs and conversations at the team level? So, in addition to one-on-one, it’s one to many kinds of engagements to help broader organizations start to grapple some of these transitions?

Karyn:

Yeah, absolutely. A lot of times in my work… And I just did the talk at the Voltage Control Summit. So, that was exciting to talk about how executive coaching concepts can be utilized in facilitation. So, oftentimes, I’ll work with an executive or a leader and they’ll say, “Hey, this is great.” And also, my team, they’re an extension of the leader, and so they oftentimes will bring me in to do leadership sessions or facilitate meetings, or that type of thing. First of all, one of the first concepts is that people are whole, and capable, and smart, and can figure out the things that they need to, is applied to the many as well as to the individual. So, the collective wisdom of the group.

But one of the things that we talk about in coaching is you have to let go of the outcome and you have to let go of being right or giving advice, which I also think applies to facilitation. I think you need to have a structure, and a framework, and you need to have an outcome in mind that the group is trying to get to. But how they get there and what they actually accomplish is something that can be applied from the coaching framework into facilitation. Because those skill sets of asking questions and helping people recognize what they want to do is really fundamental to facilitation, and it’s also fundamental to coaching.

Douglas:

That’s making me think about one of our recent facilitation labs. I was just in New York City. We were having a facilitation lab there at Muro’s office. So, I went in to help support, because I knew we’d have a larger audience and just excited support our friends at Muro for offering up the space. And so, I was assisting Noelle, our regional lead there in New York. And the person that was practicing was struggling a little bit. And I noticed it and Noelle noticed it at the same time. I also noticed Noelle starting to lean in to give him some advice and maybe even help the audience better understand the instructions.

And then I motioned at her and said, “Just wait.” And then once she understood what I was encouraging her to do, just to pause, then I leaned over and I said, “That’s going to be really great for the debrief.” Because especially in Facilitation Lab where we’re just practicing in front of a peer group and learning, it’s okay if things are rough. That’s what lab’s all about. But the learning is so much richer if we talk about it in the debrief versus if we correct it in the moment.

Karyn:

Absolutely. Yeah, it’s funny, that’s something that Julianne and I always talk about, too, when is the learning or the teaching, if you want to call it that from a facilitator perspective, comes and pointing out in the debrief. Which isn’t unlike coaching, where someone will say something and I will reflect back to them, “Hey, this seems really important to you. You’ve brought it up several times. What’s your reaction to that?” So, it’s inviting people to react to different parts of information that you’re noticing or observing, or pulling out along the way, but really letting of that I am the stage, on the stage or whatever everybody says. And that I have the all-knowing…

It’s like, no, you’re there to set up an environment where people can do the work that they need to do. And that’s another translation to coaching, is as a coach, my job isn’t to figure out what… I’m not a consultant as a coach. I can be, but I try not to be. My job is to set up an environment where people can do the work that they need to do. And a lot of that has to do with the preparation that you do and the questions that you ask. And so, there’s a ton of tie-backs to facilitation.

Douglas:

Yeah. I like to compare it to being a gardener versus a mechanic. A mechanic goes in with the tools and they put everything at the right to work. They make the engine work. But a gardener just sets the conditions for plants to grow. They can’t make the plant grow. They can’t tell the plant what to do. It’s going to do what a plant does. And so, I think humans are not like cars. They’re more like plants.

Karyn:

Yeah, I love that analogy. I might steal that.

Douglas:

Please do. I think more people need to understand that.

Karyn:

And it’s also, if you think about it and take that analogy one step further, the preparation, the soil has to have certain components to it and that you have to have certain sunlight and heat. And there’s just so many factors. And I think sometimes that’s where facilitators might get overwhelmed, is there’s a lot of variables in there. But if you set up an environment that you are pretty sure is going to create conditions that would be successful, that’s what your role is.

Douglas:

Yeah. And being prepared for some potential outcomes, but being willing to adapt if things don’t… If it doesn’t snow, then we maybe don’t need to put up the heat lamp or whatever. I think so many times folks get really excited about a design or their plans and they’re unwilling to let go of that. And to me, the real thing is just being willing to respond to what emerges.

Karyn:

Yeah. And I think that’s one of the things that I’ve noticed that learning to be a coach has really helped me do. And I often wonder if there’s a place in Facilitation, training around coaching, because I’m super comfortable now, more comfortable than I’ve ever been. And being able to handle any question from any level of person in any meeting that I’m in, because I don’t have to have the answer. My job isn’t to have the answer. And no matter how challenging someone can be or things that I’m not expecting, I can be okay with that because my job is to reflect, and to ask questions, and to set up an environment. And when I do get nervous, that’s what I tell myself is that’s not my job. My job is to set up the environment. My job isn’t to control how this goes.

Douglas:

Yeah, I love that. I think so often folks get so concerned about making sure every detail’s correct and everything’s right, and it turns out perfectly, that the obsession and concern over all the details means they miss landing the plane, when in fact landing the plane was all they needed to do.

Karyn:

Yeah, absolutely. It’s funny, I’m learning a new program right now. And I’m listening to the recording of the way that they’re doing their certification. And one of the things which I really love is they’re expecting you to know that you know what you’re doing. And they’re giving you, “Here’s the what’s important part of this, here’s why this matters, this particular concept or piece of information,” but how you as a facilitator go through the exercise or what have you, there’s so many different options and ways that they’re giving you to do that. And I think that’s another important thing, is to be flexible. Is that even though this activity was planned to be 20 minutes, but people are having a really robust conversation, being flexible to go, “Okay, well, I’m going to adjust this other activity because this one seemed to be really valuable.” And instead of being so structured and rigid to a specific timeline, I think that’s another key learning… And just getting comfortable, being flexible really.

Douglas:

It’s funny, it reminds me of a recent conversation I had at Facilitation Lab, Austin, where someone was talking about a challenge they have around keeping people engaged and maintaining the engagement. And when we peeled back a few layers, it was clear that she was not given the latitude and flexibility to adjust the timing, to adjust how it was facilitated. Everything was by the minute, spelled out. There was no leeway. If something needed to go longer and something else get compressed, none of that was allowed. It had to be on the money, and it was even audited to that point. There were people that were observing to make sure she did it right. And it’s funny, because when we really looked at the design, there were some real design flaws to begin with. So, not only was there no ability for her as a facilitator to adapt that space to the needs of whoever showed up, it also was designed in a way that didn’t create great engagement. So, it was like we were at little bit of a loss to give her advice because, wow, you’re kind of in a trap.

Karyn:

Yeah. And companies spend millions, if not billions of dollars on development. And it’s stuff like that that just makes me cringe. I’ve worked in some environments like that. And I would say if that were the case today, I would definitely not do that facilitation, because you’re just being set up to fail. And everybody in the room is actually being set up to fail, not just the facilitator.

Douglas:

Yeah. And that’s a problem I would say with a lot of L&D types of facilitation. It’s like you’re working with people that have just been instructed they have to be there. It’s like they didn’t sign up for this.

Karyn:

Captive audience.

Douglas:

Yes. It’s like, man. Well, amidst of captive audience, you’ve been talking about how you’re just going through a moment right now, which I think might be reflective of just where the market’s shifting, from a bit more of a bearish market to maybe a more bullish market. Or just people are spending more. You’re talking about fish jumping in the boat, so what’s that been like.

Karyn:

Oh, yeah. It was funny, I was just talking to someone today. They said, “Wow, you have a lot of fish jumping in your boat.” So, I just have been very grateful that there’s getting a lot of different types of work. So, I do executive coaching, I do facilitation, I do leadership development, I do some speaking. And I’ve had this really nice blend and mix of all of those opportunities. But really, this year has started off really strong. And I’m super grateful for that and the different types of experiences that I’m getting the chance to do. So, it’s so far so good. So, I’m optimistic that it’s going to be a good year.

Douglas:

I love that.

Karyn:

Knock on wood.

Douglas:

Yeah, absolutely. And it sounded like lots of coaching opportunities, which it’s really great that there’s more of that work coming and you’re able to solidify that.

Karyn:

Yeah. One of the things that I love about executive coaching is, to me, it’s one of the most individualized forms of development. So, you can go to a class and learn a lot of great things. And you can go to conferences and pick up on new ideas and innovations and all kinds of… And all of those things are great and valid. But the deep work that you can do as a leader, I think there’s probably no substitute in my mind for sitting down with a coach and figuring out what’s next for you, what might be getting in your way, and how do you want to go about resolving that. Not somebody telling you or giving you a model.

There’s a time and place for that in leadership development. I think when you’re newer in career, learning about situational leadership and learning about the different models of strategic direction and strategic leadership, those are all important to know. But then there comes a point at which knowing, again, the technical aspects isn’t going to solve it. It’s how do you move through different transition periods in a way that’s going to work for you? And I love doing that.

Douglas:

Yeah. It’s almost like it becomes more introspective than tool-based at that point.

Karyn:

Yeah. Some people want more structure than others. Some people want to talk through… A lot of times one topic that comes up a lot is delegation. And there are different ways to delegate that some people have never heard about. And so, as a coach, I sometimes will weave consulting into coaching, because if people truly don’t know that there’s lots of different ways to solve a challenge, then I’m happy to share that. But a lot of times you can never really fully appreciate where somebody else is coming from because we don’t sit in their seat. We don’t have the same lived experience, no matter how similar you are to someone else. So, we’re all more biased that our own solutions are the best. And so, the more we can pull those out and go, “Okay, well, what do you want to try? What do you want to experiment with?” And doing something on a small scale, seeing if it works, continuing to build, and that also builds confidence. Those are all the techniques and things that I tend to work within.

Douglas:

Where do you see all this going? I know when we did the blog post, you had talked about maybe there’s a book in the future. Is that something that’s taken some roots or what do you think is coming in the future for you?

Karyn:

Yeah. So, I’m still rolling that around. I think the struggle I’m having is finding the time, which is probably the biggest factor for everybody. But I’m actually writing some articles. So, I’ve written a couple articles for training and development. So, ATD, which is the Association for Training and Development. And I’m writing one right now with a partner of mine about, if you’re a leader in an organization, how do you select an executive coach? I mean, it’s a pretty flooded market and it’s pretty unregulated. There’s a lot of great coaches out there, but how do you find the one that is right for your organization and right for you? John Reed, who is another co-collaborator with mine, he wrote a book about that subject. I’m doing some writing in some different kinds of ways right now. And then I do think at some point down the road, I’d love to get a book out.

I’m actually also learning some different programs. So, there’s a program out of New Zealand, which is called Riders and Elephants, and it’s around culture change. So, I’m learning about how leaders can impact that, because I think organizational cultures and just the culture that we are all living through right now deserves some thoughtfulness. And so, I’m learning how to facilitate. So, I’m going to be a lifelong learner. My husband keeps asking me if I’m done. He is like, “When are you…” I said, “I don’t think I’m ever going to be done.” So, those are, for me, what’s next, is just how do I continue to keep contributing in this space in lots of different ways. And then when I finally can get some space and figure out how I’m going to write a book, maybe I need a coach.

Douglas:

There you go. I’ve had friends that the book becomes an artifact of all the smaller writings that were done along the way. So, maybe these posts that you’re working on are the breadcrumbs that take you to the larger work.

Karyn:

Yeah. I have my index cards, and the way I write down all my ideas. And then I have a stack of index cards, so someday those will find their way into a book.

Douglas:

Fantastic. Well, we can’t wait to see it. And I guess in the meantime, make sure to share the articles. We’d love to read them, amplify them, get the word out, because a big fan of what you’re doing.

Karyn:

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Douglas:

Thanks for being a part of the summit and being an active alumni. We appreciate all you do.

Karyn:

Oh, thanks, Douglas. And thanks for having me on. It was great to talk with you, and I appreciate it very much.

Douglas:

Yeah. And before we go, do you have a final thought for our listeners?

Karyn:

I would say if you are thinking about your development and you’re considering what’s next, I would say consider a coach. It can be a transformational experience. It was for me, and I think it can be in a lot of ways. So, I think that’s my final thought, is give it a consideration.

Douglas:

Nice. Yeah. Excellent. Well, Karyn, it was a pleasure having you. I look forward to talking to you again soon.

Karyn:

Thanks, Douglas.

Douglas:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review, and be sure to subscribe and receive updates when new episodes are released. We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog where I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics and collaboration. Voltagecontrol.com.

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