How Can Curiosity Drive Justice and Social Change in Organizations?

A conversation with Dan Walker, Founder & CEO @ Collective Imagination

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“I was blown away, absolutely enthralled and fascinated. My granddad turned to me and said, “You’ve got an inquiring mind, don’t ever lose that.” It has essentially formed who I am.”- Dan Walker

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson interviews Dan Walker from Collective Imagination Consulting. They discuss Dan’s journey from the legal field to the outdoor industry, driven by his deep curiosity and evolving understanding of justice. Dan shares how his formative experiences shaped his perspectives and how he now helps organizations create pathways toward a more just and joyful society. The conversation highlights the importance of curiosity in both personal and professional contexts, the complexities of justice, and the pivotal role businesses can play in fostering social change. The episode emphasizes a method-agnostic approach to facilitation.

Show Highlights

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About the Guest

Dan supports organizations to work in partnership with Community Leaders in the collective work towards a more just and joyful society.

He brings over 10 years of experience from across the public, non-profit and business sectors guiding organizations to do the “institutional soul work” to identify values they hold.  Supporting organizations to work in partnership with Community Leaders to translate those values in to strategy and actions that deliver the highest expression of those values and incrementally build towards a more just and joyful society.  

Dan cares deeply about respecting each person’s human dignity and brilliance, believing that co-creation can better design the systems within which we live.  His human-centred design approach supports clients to embrace these principles and pursue work that aligns with their values and support the transformative change sought.

As a member on the Board of Directors at the Vancouver Foundation, Dan advises the organization on how to better centre community need and develop governance practices that enshrine that commitment within its values and processes.  As a member of the Board of Directors at the Outdoor Diversity Alliance, he supports their mission to foster a more equitable outdoor industry through centering community expertise and catalyzing collective action across the outdoor industry.  

Balancing his love of music and the arts with time on the trails, you’ll usually find him at a local gig or exhibition, or in motion on the land.  In either context, you’re likely to find him with a huge smile on his face!

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a facilitation academy that develops leaders through certifications, workshops, and organizational coaching focused on facilitation mastery, innovation, and play. Today’s leaders are confronted with unprecedented uncertainty and complex change. Navigating this uncertainty requires a systemic facilitative approach to gain clarity and chart pathways forward. We prepare today’s leaders for now and what’s next.

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Transcript

Douglas Ferguson:

Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab podcast where I speak with Voltage Control Certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method-agnostic approach so you can enjoy a wide range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances of enabling meaningful group experiences. This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening. If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our Facilitation Lab community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in real time with peers. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab, and if you’d like to learn more about our 12 week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com.

Today I’m with Dan Walker from Collective Imagination Consulting, where he supports organizations to co-create pathways toward a more just and joyful society. Welcome to the show, Dan.

Dan Walker:

Really nice to see you, Douglas. Yeah, looking forward to the conversation.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, looking forward to chatting as well. And as usual, let’s get started with how you got your start. And I want to come back to something you mentioned in your alumni story, which was, gosh, I think you were 10 years old in London, your grandfather’s comment about the inquiring mind. Let’s talk about that a little bit.

Dan Walker:

Oh yeah. I mean, it’s a good place to start. It’s always a nice memory. I don’t know, the sun’s rising here too, so I don’t know if there’s a warmth attached to that memory. Yeah, when I was 10, I visited London with my grandparents. It was kind of the first time I’d been on a big trip like that. My grandma and granddad took me and my younger brother around London, and one of the places that we went to was the Tower of London. We went around, we were toured through the exhibits with the beefeaters who spoke to their lives and how things worked and the history. And I was blown away, I was absolutely enthralled and fascinated and obsessed with it.

And I remember coming out of that space and going down the tube, going down the tube close by to get on the underground and go to the next place, and my granddad turning to me and just saying, “You’ve got an inquiring mind. Don’t ever lose that.” And it’s essentially formed who I am. I think I’ve built my identity around this curiosity that I’ve always had. I find the world endlessly fascinating, I find everything endlessly fascinating. My biggest challenge is probably that balance of how do I say no to some things when literally whatever people are into, I just find it interesting. And yeah, it’s really shaped who I am and living into that childlike curiosity is something I always tap into. It really informs my work and how I move through the world, and I just love it. It lights me up anytime I’m doing that. So yeah, it’s a real starting point for me, and it set me on this path that I’m currently still on. Yeah, it’s a beautiful memory too.

Douglas Ferguson:

Has that punctuated moments throughout your life? Do you recall moments where that’s popped up periodically?

Dan Walker:

I think so. I mean, even now I look at it and even when I was chatting to friends the other week and they’re talking about some of the things there now studying and looking at, and I don’t know, I’m currently studying Spanish and learning to draw and sketch and these pieces and then as my friends are talking about these other areas that they’re looking at, I’m like, “Oh my God, how do I learn more about that?” So I see it all the time. I know that’s who I am and that’s what I value.

And then in work too, I think I know my ability to ask questions is my strength. I sit in a space of genuine curiosity, so I always return to that as like, yeah, that’s who I am, my heart, that’s what I believe and what I bring to the world. So it definitely comes up, it shows up all the time, and I think it’s how do I balance that curiosity with focusing on certain things in a certain moment? And also being blown away by everything, by the fascination of spaces. Yeah, I was in CERN, the particle accelerator last year, and mind-blowing what we’re doing and what does that mean and what does that tell us about the world and how 95% of the world is dark matter, and we don’t really know what that is or what that means. And I just find it all endlessly fascinating and I love the world in which we live because of that, I guess. So yeah, it shows up everywhere.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, the quest for knowledge is a fascinating thing. It’s like this ever-receding zone of the universe we don’t understand.

Dan Walker:

Yeah. I mean for you too, I don’t know, do you feel that sense of the curiousness around the planet we live in, how we interact, the social interactions, does that show up for you too?

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, I mean, there’s endless things that make me curious. In fact, there’s a construction project on the highway that connects the area I live in to downtown Austin and every time we drive through trying to figure out all the pieces and what are they going to do next and what are they up to and how’s this going to work and where’s this going to go, or are they going to close this down or open this piece up? And my wife finds it hilarious. And I think sometimes when I’m pontificating about the possibilities, she’s sneakily pulled out her phone and is recording me.

Dan Walker:

Which, yeah, to watch you in full flight would be great. I mean, what are other questions are you asking? I don’t know, it brings for me such a beauty to the world. I think with that fascination, I find everything, even the hard bits, I think that’s the spaces that I’ve come to in later years is how to, in the pain of things, can you find the beauty and the fascination and the interest that we can be pushed into these spaces that are really deeply painful for us? And what does that mean and how is that experience and how is that a beautiful experience at the same time? And I would say that’s an incomplete journey, but it’s a space that I’m now moving more into of how do I hold the full experience of life and the complexity of it all and bring that same level of curiosity to everything, not just the beautiful things that I’m in awe of, but also the difficult things too? And I don’t know, yeah, that’ll be the next 50 years trying to figure that out or get closer to figuring some of that out.

Douglas Ferguson:

When you reflect back, what are the things that you found you’re most curious about?

Dan Walker:

Oh, I think humans. I think humans and the interaction of us and how we understand ourselves and how we understand the collective us. I think that interaction is just a fascinating dynamic. There are similarities that come from the shared human experience, but also these profound differences as a result of the lived experience and the systems that we live in and all these pieces. How does that sit together? How do I sit as who I am within this collective system? And then how we layer over the politics and the systems that we’ve created and how that shapes and how it changes culturally from different contexts. So yeah, I find that fascinating without end, I can’t see an end point in being curious about that.

Yeah, I do think psychology, those spaces strongly appeal to me. There’s times where I’m like, “I should maybe look into doing that,” because I just find it a fascinating subject that we’re all beautifully unique and how do we sit together, how do we acknowledge that uniqueness and how do we stitch this collective blanket together as society? That is the space, which kind of ties into my work, this question of justice and what is justice, how do we build towards a more just society, sort of acknowledges those two things. It acknowledges the unique brilliance of each of us, and it questions how do we stitch that together? And that’s the space where, yeah, I could talk about that, read about that, listen to people talking about that, thinking about that, working through it without end.

That’s just a beautiful space for me and in service of a goal that I believe is most precious, I guess, how do we find this space to have respect, a depth for one another and experience joy that can come from that collective sense of belonging? So that’s probably the big piece where it shows up most profoundly. That and then sketching, or I don’t know, whatever else it is at the minute, but really it’s the central focus on just this is the thing.

Douglas Ferguson:

So you talk about justice and connection, how did that first show up for you? What were some of the ways that you started to understand or realize that this is an important thread for you?

Dan Walker:

That’s a good question. I think fairness has always been relevant to me. I think that is probably a very almost naive way of coming to connect with it. When I was younger, this didn’t seem fair, that person was treated differently, we’d worked as hard and that different results came. So I think there was a very juvenile understanding of it, like, “That doesn’t seem fair, these people are being treated differently,” in whatever context it may have been.

And then there was an essay that we had to write when I was at high school, so I wouldn’t be that old, I’d maybe be 12, 13, somewhere in that kind of range, I just remember it too, we were sat in the library at a local school, which was an unusual event, we weren’t often taken to the library for our English classes, but for that one we were, and we were given this essay assignment, there was essentially posing the question of, should we have capital punishment in the country? Should that be legal? Should it not be legal? How do we decide that? And learned all about the miscarriages of justice and how that had transpired, went into the legal background on why it existed, what the historical significance of it was, what’s a society if we don’t have capital punishment in place? And I was enthralled with it, I was totally fascinated by this question.

And I think it brought me to an answer that I didn’t have at the time, I definitely didn’t come to this at the time, but really what was under that is who determines the answer to that question? And within that system, it was determined by a few. And I think where I’ve come to is this question of how are the systems within which we live determined by us all? And that’s the piece where now my understanding of justice sits and comes from.

But yeah, it’s always been there. It’s like always this pursuit of we all matter, our opinions all matter. If we’re having a conversation today on any truly complex subject, you don’t have the answer, I don’t have the answer. Instead, it sits between us and together we shape it and you sharpen my thinking and I sharpen yours, and all of a sudden we have this better understanding, this idea, our ideas are better than my ideas, collectively, we shape it better. And I hold that to be true and I think it comes from a place of respect for other people, a place of belief that we are all phenomenally brilliant and talented, we just need to bring that together. And yeah, that’s really the work that I now do, but it stems from this belief in we all matter and we all should be valued and considered worthy and feel a sense of belonging together. Yeah, I mean, I could talk about it for hours.

Douglas Ferguson:

And you pursued law at some point, right?

Dan Walker:

I did, yeah. So I studied that and I think that was kind of a reflection of that maybe naive answer. I was younger then, I didn’t really know the fullness of the systems in which we sit. I came to it because I believe in justice, well, of the past, you can take, well, this one has justice in the title, we’re doing the legal sector, we’re going into criminal justice, which is intended to deliver justice. But having gone into that, finished my studies, came out, worked in a London Crown Court whilst I was living there to try and figure out do I want to carry on and become a barrister and do this work? It just became apparent to me that the system wasn’t what I believed justice to be.

Douglas Ferguson:

What was the big disconnect there or the dissonance you were feeling?

Dan Walker:

I would say it was systems that were imposing punishment and it wasn’t actually addressing the underlying inequities that exist. So it was just punishing for crimes committed without acknowledging that there are inequities that exist in society that were creating those. It wasn’t doing anything to address that. So for me, there was one case that we tried, prosecuted, the defendant was found guilty, served time in prison, two years later, the exact same case for the exact same defendant landed on my desk and I was like, “This is broken. This is not it.” I look now and I think there are people doing phenomenal work within criminal justice, and I could have maybe found pathways into changing and working on the system. At the time I was younger and I was like, “I don’t feel we’re doing the work of justice,” so I left.

It’s a tricky space because I acknowledge too the victim has suffered harm as a result of the crime so there’s a real importance of centering the victim’s perspective within that conversation too. But I think that we often neglect the perspective of the defendant and the person who has committed those crimes or has been charged with those crimes, they matter too. And I think often we don’t focus on that and say, “Hang on, what has contributed to that person being here today? And how as a society do we take account for that and acknowledge that and work through that and all those pieces?”

So yeah, it’s a fascinating space. I feel like I’m way closer to what I believe justice to be now. I feel like I’m working a far more true reflection of that and there’s amazing work being done within the legal spaces around access to justice and these pieces that maybe if I’d have found those, I would’ve still been there, I just didn’t and it didn’t feel like I was doing the work that I believed to be most true.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, we all take our own path, right? I think at the time you pivoted through the outdoor industry, if I’m remembering right.

Dan Walker:

Yeah, yeah. I ended up, I was in London when I was working in the courts, I left there. London’s amazing, it’s a phenomenal city. I love music, we were talking about that before, music’s my thing, I can’t play, which it sounds like you may be able to, but yeah, I can’t play, I love listening. So in London, I go to all the gigs and it was an amazing city, but at the time it’s exhausting too. It’s phenomenal as a cultural hub, there’s so much going on, there’s so many people. But also over time, that becomes draining at the same time. Every space that you are in, it’s overcrowded, it’s overwhelmed with other people. We’d go to the pub and I’d be sat on half of a stool and then somebody else with their group of friends would be sat on the other half of the stool facing the other way, and it just became a reflection of this is a busy space, I’m quite disconnected from nature here completely to get out into nature was really challenging.

So in parallel, Canada was one of the places where I was like, it seems like it has all the pieces. Nature is here in abundance. Yes, it has its challenges politically, but the conversations around the work of justice, around truth and reconciliation and other pieces are conversations that are being named. So I think that became a place where I was curious to look and ended up moving here. The outdoor industry I came to because I was like, “Well, I guess I’m going to try something different,” I know I don’t want to go back into the legal space, I love time outside, I love nature, I love being connected in those spaces so what about trying the outdoor industry? So that’s what I did.

I initially worked at MEC, Mountain Equipment Company, which is essentially the Canadian equivalent of REI. I worked alongside their CEO, it was amazing, got a really good exposure at the time. They were pushing deeply into the work of sustainability, so focusing on people and planet. And it gave me a real eye-opener as to, wow, the power of businesses to affect change, they had the revenue figured out in a way that nonprofit sector found more challenging. They could work across all different sectors, so they could work with governments, they could work with nonprofits, they could work with academic institutions, they could move so fast on anything. If they wanted to go, they could go there and they could go quickly and they could partner and they could make shifts.

And significantly, they have this huge voice, when outdoor brands say something, it far eclipses what can be said by government or nonprofits, which we can challenge and question whether that’s right. I think a lot of the nonprofits have such credible voices, such credible expertise on these subjects, but they don’t have the recognition and the respect that brands do. And I think we live in a society where the logo has power, and I saw that and how that could be used as a tool for change. So yeah, I left MEC did the same thing over at Arc’teryx, another outdoor brand based here too, worked for their CEO for the first few years.

And one of the things that came to me was every year we’d do a sample sale, so we produce gear that we’d test and see how it worked. It couldn’t then be sold commercially, but the tested gear would be sold internally, and we probably generated about $100,000 a year. And really with that money, I just started asking questions, I was like, “Well, what are we doing with that? What’s the intent of it?” It became really apparent there was no strategy of what we were intending to do. So we went through this exercise, which I can touch on, of how do we determine the highest and best use of our resources in service of a societal and/or environmental need? That’s kind of the question that we started to answer and really became my work for the past eight years, work which I love. It’s work that got me far closer to what is justice and happy to chat more if that’s relevant too, about that process.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, it’s curious to me because for one, what the process was even like. I think identifying a guiding purpose like that with a really clear, “This is the question that we’re going to wrap our arms around,” I think that in and of itself is remarkable because so many folks are just kind of, “Oh yeah, we want to achieve this thing,” or they might throw some metrics at things to start a project, but it sounded like that was rooted in some real curiosity. And then also how did you even bring everyone together?

Dan Walker:

I would say too it was clumsy because I didn’t know, so now I look back and I can layer over and I can see the good things in what I did, and I can also see like, “Oh, you could have probably learned to do that better.” I didn’t know what I was doing in truth at that point, but, as you said, I had this curiosity of how do we do this? How do we marry what we have, the assets, the resources, the influence we have as an organization with these societal needs that we see existing in the world?

So really it was through a process of conversations across the entire company. Our CEO at the time was amazing, we’re still good friends now, but he really had a commitment to saying, “Sure, let’s try it. Let’s try and figure out what this intersection means and looks like.” So there was buy-in from the company, it was a prioritized conversation. Different groups from all across the organization we brought together to explore this topic and try and work through what that might be.

And in parallel, I was connected to the community leaders, so people within the space who are doing the work every day on those societal issues that intersect with the outdoor industry. So whether it’s equitable access to nature or truth and reconciliation or thinking about guardianship of the land, these areas, I was connected with those groups too so gaining insights from them as to what are those real challenges? What are those pieces and the needs from the real movements?

And so really starting to bring those two together to say, who are we as an organization? First, let’s do that work, right? Who are we as an organization? Why do we exist? So for the brand, it became really apparent that yes, they designed and built a climbing harness in some ways because they believe they could build a lighter, more comfortable harness, which is great. But the question remains, well, why build a lighter, more comfortable harness? And the root note to that is really this belief in the transformative power of connection to land. So we build this gear because it gets us in these spaces that moves us in these ways that my words fall short of explaining but when I’ve been outside, I’m a different human as a result of it. It moves me in these really powerful, humbling, respectful ways. It shifts who I am.

So once you know that and you’re like, “Well, our commitment and the reason we are here is because of this belief in the power of the land, what then are the societal needs that intersect?” So if you look at the outdoor industry, it has a very extractive relationship with the land. It takes from it and it doesn’t acknowledge at a depth that this land is indigenous land and it doesn’t acknowledge the fullness of what that means. It doesn’t respect sacred spaces, a lot of the language it uses and even celebrates denies the presence of indigenous peoples. So language around first ascension, language around wilderness, this is often celebrated in the industry, and at the expense of acknowledging indigenous peoples. So a big part of our work became that focus on truth and reconciliation. How as an industry do we take our responsibility for that and start to shift the narratives and move that work?

And then the other side, a lot of the community leaders name it far more eloquently than I do, the outdoor industry is traditionally male, stale and pale. I look at myself, people listening won’t see this, but yeah, I’m a white male from Northern Europe, it sits profoundly, that is where the industry has traditionally sat, and there’s a lot of work to do. And the question really is how do we embrace the wider we and how do we do this work towards equitable access to nature? So that really became the second area, this focus on supporting the movement towards equitable access to nature.

It’s those two pieces that have driven that work over the last eight years, and really then looking to bring that to life with a commitment that Arc’teryx or any organization is leading neither of those movements. Instead, their role is to listen deeply to community leaders and map their strategy and resources in service of it. Really, that’s the work I did at Arc’teryx, and it’s now the belief that I bring with me into Collective Imagination, the consulting work that I now do.

But yeah, I look back, I don’t know, the process, it was rough. I figured it out by speaking to mentors, community leaders, and we got it to a really good place. There’s so much, I would get there way quicker now, I know now the facilitation practices, how I would structure things, how we move it, building relationships, what’s the intent of these sessions and what are we building towards? But I got there. It definitely took us longer than it would take now, but the curiosity is always key. And even in the work that I do now, that’s what I’m trying to inspire in organizations to ask those deep questions and be open to where it goes and to work with community leaders who have that expertise. So yeah, it’s been a journey and it’s kind of nice to look back and see that, yeah, I have grown and I am more competent in this and there’s still so much for me to go in the journey of getting better at this work. So yeah, it’s been fun.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah. What about the power imbalances that exist when you have organizations with resources trying to work with grassroots communities?

Dan Walker:

These are good. These are not small questions. So yeah, the power, it’s the think, right? I think as you do the work more and more, you realize that the power we hold is everything. It frames who is able to determine those systems that are created. Especially as a brand, you hold immense power. In many ways, you’re a gatekeeper of resources so the grants that you provide, that is a piece. A big part of the work has been how do you acknowledge that it exists, it is a reality within the context of which we live, and how do you work beyond it too? So how do you start to move from, “We have these power imbalances that exist,” into this space of, “We know they exist, but we still want to work in partnership and we want to work in deep trusting relationship”?

I remember there was an example where we had an event, an activity with one of the partners, and we always push, I would always say in conversation, “I want to hear the honest feedback. I want to hear where we’re going wrong. I want to hear where we can get better.” And one of the partners, this is a couple of years into the relationship, shared some feedback on one of the things that was challenging in this event, “It wasn’t exactly what we wanted. We felt like there was different ways we could have done it, there were better ways we could have done it.”

And in the first instance, it’s always challenging to hear that feedback of like, oh, we kind of missed the mark on something. But it also told me we’ve been doing that intentional work the right way such that now we were starting to build relationships where we could truly hear the fullness of what’s going on and start to truly work together in deeper partnership. I think it’s critical, and it takes time. Building trust is the critical piece of work. How do you really build trust? There’s a lot of harm that’s existed between the relationship of corporations and businesses and nonprofits and community leaders, there’s a lot of justifiable mistrust there because of how historically businesses have acted.

So I think you start from that place, you have to start to build relationships from a very trusting place and slowly over time come to this position where we can move into this true reciprocal relationship, this reciprocal partnership where we share the good and the bad and we work through it together. That isn’t going to come tomorrow. If you’re just starting, there’s no way you’ll get close. I think what we heard for those first few years was, “This is great, keep doing the work,” and then you realize over time there’s a depth that is not being shared, and how do you unlock that?

And I apply that to the same things. How do we truly make people feel comfortable and supported and safe within spaces such that they can share their most preciously held ideas? That’s really what we want to hear, we want to hear the brilliance of you. And in order to do that, we need to create this safe space that makes you feel belonging, that makes you feel compelled and comfortable to share, which I think, I don’t know, that feels like a track that Voltage Control is on. I don’t know whether that tracks for you, but I think this push around unlocking the brilliance of people feels like what, I don’t know, what Voltage Control is trying to unlock in all these different contexts. So I don’t know, I’d be curious for you, is my read right? Or, yeah, how do you think about that kind of hearing people’s voices and what facilitation unlocks?

Douglas Ferguson:

Yeah, and it’s an essential component of facilitation. And I think our mission is to elevate the ecosystem at large by upskilling more people and providing opportunities for folks to really practice and grow their facilitation skills, whether it’s through certification or the community or even some of these more complex projects we’ve been finding ourselves participating in that allow us to give our alumni really in-depth on-the-job kind of experience, resume-building experience, and at the same time driving some real impacts. And it is really about how do we elevate conversations? How do we get more people in the conversations? And back to your point, hearing that things didn’t go as well as people had hoped, while it can be really disheartening to hear because you put everything into it, you really wanted things to go really well, but the fact that they’re telling you that means that you’ve done something right, you’ve created an environment where they feel comfortable telling you that. So I think that’s a keen reflection that you have there.

Dan Walker:

It totally is. And I think feeling bad is it is this work of dissolving the ego too, I think like that. And it’s a critical part as we look to show up in this world, how do we acknowledge the ego that we all hold? How do we think through that? How do we dissolve that such that we can allow this conversation to sit in a true space of what is your experience? How can I get better at this? How can we do this better together? Rather than being like, “I don’t want to listen to that, just tell me I’m doing good work.”

And I think that’s equally a part of facilitation is how do you do the self-work such that you can step into those spaces and truly create a safe environment where we all can collaborate? I think people often, and I did too, think about facilitation purely as the mechanics of how you structure conversation, how you bring them together, but it’s also this self-work that runs into life too of how do I show up and how do I make sure I’m in that space open to what I’m hearing? That feels the big piece.

Douglas Ferguson:

Yes. The success of any intervention is directly related to the internal conditions of the intervener.

Dan Walker:

Oh good, I mean, yeah, yes. It feels it. And I think I almost intuitively knew that but going through the program, it’s a conversation that continues to come up of here are the mechanics of the process, amazing. They would’ve got me to that process at Arc’teryx far faster, far more effectively, far more knowingly. But this layer of the self-work too is a thread that has constantly been hit on, how are you doing that? How are you showing up? How in the moment, in the eye of the storm when things are going poorly, how do you come back to yourself, be grounded enough that you can then create an environment where to the group you’re like, “It’s okay, we’re going to work through this, here’s where we’re going”? It is so critical. And when you see it done, it is beautiful to watch people stand in the eye of that storm calm, understood, working through, human. I mean, that’s the aspiration I guess, that’s where hopefully we’re all going.

Douglas Ferguson:

So let’s hear a little bit about Collective Imagination. I mean, what’s been some recent success stories that you’re really proud of?

Dan Walker:

Yeah, I mean, it’s fun, it’s so fun. So Collective Imagination is the consulting business I set up in the summer of last year. So I left Arc’teryx, really due to this belief in what is justice, justice being that which exists when we truly co-create the systems that we live in. I wanted to push on that. I wanted to say, “How do I find organizations trying to do this work to co-create pathways to a more just and joyful society?” That’s really what I believe at my core, I want to find organizations doing that work.

I’ve been blown away. I never intended to run a business, I never intended to do anything on my own lik this, it’s not something that organically came to me, it’s not an aspiration, it’s not something I would say I really desired or pursued, but having done it, what it has unlocked in terms of the work that I’m able to do is phenomenal. I think you name in the world what you believe to be true, and all of a sudden, I don’t know, this beautiful gift comes to you where people who are like, “That’s what I also believe. How do we collaborate on things?” It has just started to emerge. So that’s resulted in the work that I’ve been able to do.

So Burton Snowboards are doing some amazing work in this space, particularly around equitable access to nature and climate action. I got to work with them on their philanthropic strategy, so really kind of applying the same logic we did at Arc’teryx into their work, asking these deep questions of who are we? Why do we exist? Based on that, what is the highest and best use of our resources? How do we center community expertise throughout the entire process? It’s amazing, it’s a beautiful example of what it can look like in reality.

Actually, Laporte who heads up that work, the VP of Purpose and Impact there, is phenomenal. I think it’s always amazing to look at people who inspire you in the work because it can give us insights as to what are those things that I want to grow into? What are the things that I want to learn? Ashley is one of those impact leaders who I look at as, “This is what the work looks like and this is the leadership we need in the world.” So that is a plug for anybody looking and interested in the work of impact, check out Ashley and what she’s doing.

Similarly, I helped to found a nonprofit a few years back called the Outdoor Diversity Alliance. And really this sits at the heart of the outdoor industry asking that question of how do we embed equity within the outdoor industry? How do we start to do that at scale through collective action of the various brands, different brands or member companies of the Outdoor Diversity Alliance? And so I facilitated a conversation with those impact leaders from the different brands.

And from that I asked the question of like, “Okay, so we’re saying equity in the outdoor industry is what we want, what are the barriers there? Why are we not making progress on it?” And what came up really was this revelation that it wasn’t being prioritized by senior leaders. The people sat in that room were lik, “I know what I’d do. If I had the opportunity, here’s where we go. We’d center community, we’d co-create strategy, we’d work into action, and then we’d keep iterating off that. What I don’t have is prioritization by our senior leaders.” So that’s the barrier.

So the next question was, “Well, okay, well, how might we work to resolve that?” So what came up through conversation and dialogue was really we need a business case for equity in the outdoors. I’ve experienced this too, everyone within these roles is stretched and tapped and can’t get to this deeper work when they’re just trying to keep the lights on in what they’re doing. So what I did with them was they helped run a project where we brought together the very tangible business case of this work. So we’ve always had the moral imperative of the work, but in a business context that just hasn’t proved sufficient. And we say these values, that hasn’t necessarily crossed the line of where we see the work needing to go.

Instead, we started to look at these macro trends and these shifts that are really impacting the world. So we have demographic shifts, we have access to capital being more tied to the work of equity, we have future generations, both consumers and employees saying, “I demand this as part of what we’re doing and my buying decisions are my decisions on where I work will be changed as a result of it.” So we created that business case, we presented it to all the members, and now we’re figuring out how we enroll CEOs and senior leadership teams in that work to really frame that this work is not just a moral imperative, but it’s a business imperative too. There’s a demand to do this.

So again, it’s that true co-creation work, working with community leaders and business leaders to understand the needs and building together on this incremental journey towards this more just and joyful society, acknowledging that it’s generational work, it will continue long after my lifetime, but what’s that next step we can take and how can we continue to move it forward?

So those are some of the projects that have come up. And coaching too, I think a lot of people are burning in this work, they’re struggling with real burnout. The question of what’s going to happen is one that I’m hearing constantly right now, there’s a lot of political change in different countries and different contexts. What does that mean? This work’s hard, I think it’s going to get harder, what does that mean and look like? And how am I doing? I’m absolutely on fire, what does that mean? So I’ve started doing that more coaching with those impact leaders to support them through it. They’re all things I’ve experienced myself first-hand. This work is deeply challenging. The closer you get to understanding community need, the more you realize how far away we are from it.

And I think that tension of the patience needed in the work and the urgency of it is really hard to hold on the shoulders of often one individual who’s hearing all the challenges from the organization and from community and often doesn’t have anybody to turn to themselves. So that’s the space where I’ve started doing more work too. I totally love it. There are some phenomenal humans that I’m getting to work with who are doing that work. So yeah, those are some of the bits that are exciting me and then more to come, more to come, more things building, which is always great.

Douglas Ferguson:

The future looks bright?

Dan Walker:

I think so. I mean, we’ll always see. But yeah, I love what I’m getting to do. It looks bright and I think in ways I never imagined. I didn’t really know where I’m going and pieces, but it’s been stunning. And yeah, I’m excited for whatever comes next.

Douglas Ferguson:

Well, as we come to an end here, I wanted to offer you an opportunity to leave our listeners with a final thought.

Dan Walker:

Ooh, maybe don’t sit on a squeaky chair. I’d say probably take care of yourself I think is the big piece in all of it. It’s whether we look at in the context of facilitation, it’s how do you make sure you are as an individual, you are well, and you are doing that work of dissolving the ego such that we can hold space for the collective conversation? Whether it’s you are an impact leader and you are pushing this work and you’re meeting resistance to it, how are you finding wellness yourself? How are you giving yourself grace and patience and doing that work of self-care? You’re a community leader, every day you are in community doing this work, doing the hard yards of this work that often goes unthanked, unrewarded in the ways I think it should be, unacknowledged in the ways I think it should be. In all of that, how are you truly finding the grace to acknowledge yourself and to be like, “My wellbeing is critical”?

A great mentor once said this to me, and I think it’s often said, you’re only good to the movements if you’re still in them. If we’re burnt out to the point that we leave, the movement doesn’t benefit from that. So I think especially in this moment, in these last few years, I just see it rising. I mentor on the top 25 environmentalists under 25 in Canada, and we were talking about, one of the questions at the end of the closing of the sessions was, “What is the one biggest barrier and concern you see around us not making a transition to a just future and a resilient climate future?” And the number one thing by a million miles was burnout.

And it stuck with me. And I’m like, “That is the thing.” How do we, yes, push the work forward, but push that from a place of I’m well, we’re well, our collective wellbeing is taken care of? I think if we don’t get that right, we’re going to create systems that don’t serve us and the joy that I believe what I’m seeking towards. So yeah, probably that more in this moment, it feels right to take care, I’d say.

Douglas Ferguson:

Wonderful. Well, I think that’s a call-to-action for folks to take care of themselves and put on your oxygen mask first before helping others.

Dan Walker:

It’s true.

Douglas Ferguson:

Especially true for facilitators, no matter where you’re working. And with that, Dan, I just want to say it was a great conversation. Look forward to chatting with you again soon, and thanks again for jumping on the show.

Dan Walker:

So fun, so fun. I mean, I love the conversation and I look forward to catching up in Austin in a few weeks at the summit.

Douglas Ferguson:

See you there.

Dan Walker:

Yeah, see you there.

Douglas Ferguson:

Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review and be sure to subscribe and receive updates when new episodes are released. We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog where I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics and collaboration at voltagecontrol.com.