Podcast

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson interviews Joe McLean, Group Product Manager for the AI Stream at Miro, who led the overhaul of Miro's Sidekicks and Flows AI surfaces launched at Canvas 25. Joe traces how his hobbyist love of Eurorack modular synthesizers shaped Flows, arguing that visible, patchable connections reveal what a chat box hides, and that a good tool's structure can enable rather than constrain creativity. He and Douglas dig into what he calls the "visual trace" - treating an AI agent like a new hire who needs onboarding, check-ins, and a replayable record so a whole team, not just one operator, can trust and build on its work. The conversation covers how cheap execution is reshaping product development, from teams showing up to meetings with working prototypes instead of slide decks, to Miro's internal VibeLab tool solving the "Git problem" of AI-generated design branches, to the rise of throwaway personal software built for an audience of one. They close on a candid discussion of the switching costs of chat-interface lock-in and Joe's conviction that the healthiest relationship with AI comes from building things with it, not just asking it questions.

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson interviews Taran Lent, Chief Technology Officer at Illumia, about how his organization moved from individual AI experimentation to enterprise-wide capability. Lent describes building an "enablement task force" that deliberately avoided becoming a governing bottleneck, instead creating conditions for employees to play, learn, and share what worked, before this year's push to elevate personal AI habits into shared team and company-wide skills, standards, and vetted tools. He talks about using AI as a contrarian thought partner and even having it grade his own interviewing and meeting behavior, while cautioning that transcripts alone miss tone and body language. The conversation also covers the governance side of scaling AI, including a stakeholder review process for new tools and skills, the four-to-six-week approval timeline for new vendors, and guardrails to prevent incidents like an unauthenticated internal dashboard. Lent connects this to Illumia's recent merger of Transact and CBORD, crediting a shared "humble, hungry, smart" culture for making the integration smoother, and closes by arguing that judgment, creativity, and human discernment remain the differentiators as AI adoption accelerates.

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, host Douglas Ferguson interviews Sarah B. Nelson, Distinguished Designer at Kyndryl and co-founder of Kyndryl Vital, about why AI's promise to remove friction is actually surfacing the human dynamics organizations have always avoided facing. They unpack how a single word like trust splinters into distinct concerns — model accuracy, data use, organizational credibility — and why treating human in the loop as a rubber-stamp step risks disengagement and stripped-out meaning. Nelson draws on the NeuroLeadership Institute's SCARF model to explain why AI rollouts stall on status, certainty, autonomy, relatedness, and fairness rather than on the technology itself, and shares stories spanning cybersecurity burnout, Holacracy at Zappos, and the extraction economics behind AI training data. The conversation keeps returning to her insistence on designing with people rather than at or for them, and on imagination as the resource most at risk of being engineered out of enterprises chasing speed. She closes with a Buckminster Fuller line she keeps returning to: that people are called to be architects of the future, not victims of it.

In this episode of the New Friction podcast, host Douglas Ferguson speaks with Peter Bell, founder of Gather.dev and author of the forthcoming O’Reilly book Scaling AI Adoption in Engineering. Bell draws on his work running invite-only peer communities for senior engineering leaders to diagnose why most organizations stall out in AI pilot mode rather than achieving meaningful transformation. The conversation maps three distinct patterns of engineer resistance—skeptics burned by early models, craft-focused developers who resist the shift toward managing agents, and those with principled objections to AI—and offers concrete tactics for reaching each group. Bell and Ferguson explore how AI amplifies existing organizational health: strong DevOps practices compound upward while process debt scales its dysfunction. They examine the mandate trap, measurement via token usage as a diagnostic rather than a performance metric, and the non-negotiable role of psychological safety in any serious adoption effort. The episode closes with Bell’s call for engineering leaders to build hands-on with current models, arguing that firsthand intuition—not secondhand reports from a VP of AI—is what this transition demands.