How Can Rituals in Design Enhance Facilitation and Organisational Resilience?

A conversation with Marco Monterzino, Human-centered Designer and Certified Innovation Facilitator at Monterzino Design

In this episode of the Facilitation Lab podcast, Douglas Ferguson interviews Marco Monterzino, a human-centered designer and innovation facilitator. Marco shares his journey from luxury product design to facilitation, emphasising the significance of ritual, adaptability, and purpose in both fields. They discuss how design thinking and frameworks like the hero’s journey inform facilitation, and how rituals shape user experiences. Marco also explores building organisational resilience, the evolving nature of purpose, and the importance of cultivating equanimity. The episode concludes with insights on blending facilitation and education to foster resilient, innovative teams and communities.

Show Highlights

[00:01:45] Marco’s Entry into Luxury Design
[00:08:21] Rituals and Product Design
[00:15:49] Gaining Confidence and Structure as a Facilitator
[00:23:59] Workshops as Human Gatherings
[00:31:14] Bridging Facilitation and Education
[00:35:17] Final Thought: The Equanimity Hack

Links | Resources

Marco on LinkedIn

About the Guest

Marco Monterzino is a Human-centered Designer and Certified Innovation Facilitator at Monterzino Design, where he helps senior leadership teams discover their organisational resilience.

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Transcript

Douglas Ferguson (00:05):
Hi, I’m Douglas Ferguson. Welcome to the Facilitation Lab Podcast, where I speak with Voltage Control certification alumni and other facilitation experts about the remarkable impact they’re making. We embrace a method-agnostic approach, so you can enjoy a wide-range of topics and perspectives as we examine all the nuances to enabling meaningful group experiences. This series is dedicated to helping you navigate the realities of facilitating collaboration, ensuring every session you lead becomes truly transformative. Thanks so much for listening.

(00:38):
If you’d like to join us for a live session sometime, you can join our Facilitation Lab community. It’s an ideal space to apply what you learn in the podcast in realtime with peers. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab. If you’d like to learn more about our 12-week facilitation certification program, you can read about it at voltagecontrol.com.

(00:58):
Today I’m with Marco Monterzino, human-centered designer and Certified Innovation Facilitator at Monterzino Design, where he helps senior leadership teams discover their organizational resilience. Welcome to the show, Marco.

Marco Monterzino (01:14):
Thanks for having me, Douglas. Great to see you.

Douglas Ferguson (01:16):
I just want to say it’s so wonderful having you on the show today. You’ve been such a great collaborator, and the work you’re doing at Facilitation Lab Europe is so wonderful. We really appreciate everything you’re doing there. And we’ve got some cool stuff that we’re working on that we might be launching next year. So always a pleasure to chat with you, and it’s so wonderful having you on the show today.

Marco Monterzino (01:37):
Thanks. Look, it’s been an incredible experience and so supportive of my own journey. So yeah, thanks for setting it up really.

Douglas Ferguson (01:46):
You began your career designing luxury objects, like lighters and fountain pens. What first drew you into that world? And what did you learn from working in such a rarefied space?

Marco Monterzino (01:56):
So that’s a great question, Douglas. I would say I more or less stumbled upon this market. It’s something that I was introduced to by the college I studied at. So Central Saint Martins College in London is a college that has a very strong network in a very specific niche of the market, which is the high end luxury market. Really because they are active in the intersection of art, fashion and design. So that’s the kind of network that I got introduced to.

(02:31):
I also have to say, as a child growing up, I really enjoyed collecting lighters and fountain pens, but really not the lighters that cost you half a yearly salary. So these are things that I just encountered along my journey and I really enjoyed discovering. Especially I would say the whole experience of creating these items, luxury items, high end items is connecting to a notion that the French call savoir faire, which is basically craftsmanship.

(03:11):
So having a chance to immerse myself in companies that have these workshops where they make bespoke diamond-encrusted accessories for gentlemen, for ladies, it was really super, super precious. And opened up my mind as a designer because I could see how … This was my first experience in connecting the practice of designing to the practice portfolio manufacturing, and this was a very specific type of manufacturing. It’s very little industrial production, just a little bit of C&C milling, digital manufacturing, which was then all finished by hand, encrusted by hand, engraved by hand. So the range of possibilities was really endless.

Douglas Ferguson (04:04):
I recall that your big project was the Diva. And I playfully suggested From Diva to Facilitator as your alumni story title, but that felt a little off to you. Tell us about the origins in the name Diva, and what was there for you as you were working on that project?

Marco Monterzino (04:19):
Yeah, thank you. That’s a great memory actually to recall. So I had been given this assignment to work with a young audience for a luxury brand called Stephane Tissot Dupont based in Paris. They started being known for travel case design. They created these travel cases that people use for traveling on the great liners of Cunard, that heritage. When I went to visit the factory, the workshops, the atelier actually how they call it, it was really super feeling the weight of these objects and hearing the sound of the lids as they came open. I was introduced to a whole new universe. I never really could see how you could design into that level of detail.

(05:08):
Now, the concept actually came because I was struggling with coming up with an idea for something in that market. It’s really not my market, I hardly could empathize with the user. And that’s my first job as a designer, understanding what a user needs. So one day I was just walking around in Lugano, on this Italian border with Switzerland. Actually, it was the Swiss border with Italy. And I saw … Sometimes you start observing, and I’m the kind of person sometimes, a bit awkwardly stops and starts staring at something as if I was invisible. I was super mesmerized by something that I was observing. And this scene was a guy and a girl who was basically, they didn’t know each other and they crossed paths on the shore of this lake. She asked him if he had a lighter. And the way this interplay happened was really beautiful because the light was just right, there was a gust of wind, and their hands gently touched each other as they were exchanging this moment, this gesture.

(06:28):
And for me, that moment was where I was, “Oh, wow, that’s really beautiful. What if I could design a physical object, a tool like a lighter, that could really represent and enhance this ritual of giving fire?” The elegance of an open gesture like that. So the idea was what if a person like me could, in a dream, be able to treat a woman like a diva, like you see in the great films of the Hollywood era. So that’s how the name came about, just thinking of a lighter that was dedicated, it was an homage to the user. A lady who’s treated like a diva by a gentleman. The divas are in this dream scenario that I lost myself into.

(07:38):
That landed really well Stephane Tissot Dupont, the creative director really liked it and said, “We can manufacture this.” And in fact, I think they didn’t end up manufacturing that specific design unfortunately, as it often goes with product innovation. But they built the idea of something that could be operated with an open gesture in other collections. One for 007 is operating that way, then they have another one that is a bit more sporty and leverages the strength of the hand. Because the whole idea was to offer a lighter, rather than in your fist like many would, on the open palm of a hand, as if your hand was a surface rather than your hand holding onto something.

Douglas Ferguson (08:21):
That story immediately drew me to the idea of ritual, and I think you even invoked that word yourself. This idea of passing the flame has become a thing of the past because people are moving away from smoking due to health concerns or picked up vaping instead. Are there other human-to-human rituals that we’ve lost that we could amplify with design or objects?

Marco Monterzino (08:44):
Look, it’s a very interesting space, that one, I think for all forms of industrial design especially because that was where I asked myself this kind of question. The idea of a ritual really is at the root of many products that we use. If you think about simple rituals like how we use our handsets, there’s lots of little rituals in there. A lot of little gestures, a lot of thoughtless acts, a lot of cultural norms we can play with.

(09:17):
Now of the top of my head, I wouldn’t be able to pull in a specific ritual that I have in mind. But if you think about the usual rituals of, for instance the tea ceremony or many other cultural rituals, really are about the process being just as important as the outcome. Because the outcome, at the end of the day, might be drink a cup of tea. But what if the pleasure and the value of the experience is throughout the process from the beginning to the end? Yeah, how you prepare the mug, how you select and appreciate the blend, how you embody a certain posture rather than another one. In certain cultures, like in Japan, there’s a lot of very sophisticated detail that goes into these things. So I think ritual is everything in product design and it’s a great place to start a design process from my experience.

Douglas Ferguson (10:18):
At what point did you realize objects, though beautiful, didn’t quite align with your own values? And how did that spark your pivot toward utilitarian design?

Marco Monterzino (10:28):
Now, it didn’t come without its pains. You can imagine, I was very excited to be in such a market. It made me feel extremely fortunate. I didn’t see myself designing a fountain pen for Montblanc or helping Stephane Tissot Dupont launch a new lighter. It was something that it was completely foreign to me. But I don’t know, I just felt by doing other bits of work, the purpose part of it was really driving me.

(11:03):
When designing these beautiful objects, you’re often designing items that end up being collected. They might not even be used as much. These brands are really keen to make sure that their products are not seen as collectibles, but unfortunately quite often that’s the way it goes, especially with the more customized and expensive pieces. So being on the other end of the spectrum, so solving real life problems, everyday problems, really addressing something that you might observe in real life, like how can we make packaging not end up in our seas, that sort of problem. How can we help people behave in a different way when it comes to sustainability? These are issues that I’ve dealt with very, very regularly.

(11:55):
It’s the other end of the spectrum. Very, very fast-moving goods, packaging. Not glamorous at all, not massaging my ego as much as a designer, but definitely giving me a sense of purpose and I’m having an impact here. Which I have to say, I wasn’t feeling as much when I was designing the other products. And that is not to say that you can’t have a sense of purpose when designing those other products. If you’re a watchmaker, I think there’s a lot of purpose there. But just it didn’t really click with me. I felt I needed something more grounded. Yeah.

Douglas Ferguson (12:36):
Can you share the moment when you first sensed that facilitation, not just product design, might be the real work you were meant to do?

Marco Monterzino (12:44):
I think I mentioned earlier, product innovation, that’s when my shift happened. That’s the first moment I encountered the … I understood the skill behind design. The mindset was transferable, I could use it outside of designing stuff. I could use it to help an R&D team come up with a product without designing the product, just coming up with 10, 20 ideas. So it was incremental in my experience. I went from designing hands-on, to a degree like a craftsman. Designers are, to a degree, craftspeople. They apply their ability to understand manufacturing and form. I went from that place to a place where I could generate lots of ideas for organizations.

(13:44):
And then that turned into we’re not solving product innovation problems now, but when working with a large fast-moving goods company, like Proctor & Gamble or Pepsi, PepsiCo, we might need to really think about, say structural problems for a smaller organization like a startup or a scale-up. And that’s when I could see that holding that hand in understanding how they could discover their product. So their very first product, it was all product-based at the beginning for me, could be done through the same process that I used for designing the product itself. So understanding the what problem is, reframing it, coming up with solutions, and then prototyping and testing solutions to a degree whenever it really fits.

(14:40):
And that’s when I actually started doing design sprints because I overheard at Makerversity, a lovely coworking space I was based at in London, I overheard that my friends in the neighboring office or set of desks were able to sell this product like hot cakes. I was like, “Wow, what’s the secret here?” And the secret was, it was very clear. For the first time I was able to hear people talk about the design process like something that was bite-sized and that could be seen as very tangible because you got from big problem to a user-validated solution at the end.

(15:25):
So that’s where I could see that there was something on the horizon around facilitation. But by no means, I didn’t have the experience or the methodology I could lean on. It was all I was winging it big time. And sometimes, as you do when you’re winging it, sometimes it goes really well and some other times it doesn’t go just quite as well. So yeah, that’s actually how I came about you guys and it was very much to address that need for structure, that need for a sense of also confidence. Because if I was winging it and it was a sunny day and everything was going well, I was completely confident and bold. But if things were not working out, or the client was potentially pushing back, or things were not really, yeah, working out, I would be losing my confidence. You can’t lose your confidence as a facilitator, it’s a key feature of the work we do. We have to guide and lead in a confident way.

(16:30):
So having methods, the readings, especially the first reading, the Art of Gathering, super clear. It was a big light bulb that went off in my head. It clarified my role. I was gathering people, I wasn’t just running workshops. So there was a lot more thought that had to go into it.

Douglas Ferguson (16:53):
That confidence is really key. You talk about when everything’s sunny and goes well, it’s easy to follow the playbook, run the recipe. But then what happens where there’s a perturbation in the system or something goes unexpected? We have to be unflappable. We have to be resilient. That’s why we have our competency of adaptive. If we’re not adaptive facilitators, when we’re met with adversity it’s going to be really hard to respond.

Marco Monterzino (17:25):
Definitely, definitely. Look, one thing that really got me thinking about this topic was when, I think you brought it up on Circle, on the live community, the Facilitation Lab community. You brought up the topic or the notion of equanimity, which was an entirely novel term for me. The English language is not my first language and I had not come across this word before. So I looked it up. I was like, “Oh, I need a bit of this.” It was this inner smoothness was really extremely tantalizing. It was like, “Yeah, I need more than a bit of that. I need to have control of that.”

(18:11):
So yeah, that planted a little seed somewhere in the back of my head. And then through experience, I was able to actually craft for myself something that could ground me when things were not working out quite the way I was hoping.

Douglas Ferguson (18:30):
So tell me more about that?

Marco Monterzino (18:31):
Well, this is something that I refer to as my, I don’t know, it’s a mantra for me. Something that I go to to find my footing. And I found myself and I still find myself quite regularly … Maybe it’s because it’s I’m a creative, I’m a designer, emotions have a strong grip on my psyche. So whenever there’s some emotion that’s making me feel less confident because maybe I’m experiencing an emotion called fear, then as soon as I realize that’s going on I go, “Okay.” I just take a breath and then I just repeat within myself quietly, “I’m here to serve you.” Because at the end of the day, all the work that I do as a consultant, as a human-centered designer is to serve people.

(19:22):
And then it’s like pressing autofocus on a very blurred image. Things go blurry, blurry, blurry, and then I go, “I’m here to serve you,” and everything is crystal clear and instantly I have my confidence back. Instantly, every time. Super reliable.

Douglas Ferguson (19:39):
Nice. There’s a reason purpose is first and adaptive is last. If we’re not starting with purpose and anchoring the other competencies along the way, it’s going to be really difficult to get to adaptive.

Marco Monterzino (19:51):
Totally, totally. And I would say that adaptability is a key feature of purpose. Because I can see my purpose as a business evolving over time, and I can see that you guys possibly have the same. Depending on how you evolve, your purpose has to evolve. Depending on how the market evolves, your purpose has to evolve. Depending on how the learning that I take on along the way informs me with new knowledge, my purpose has to evolve. And that piece where I’m constantly iterating my purpose is the adaptability, the ability to keep that purpose, the driving purpose fresh on my mind. I don’t know how it is for you guys, but that’s definitely the case with me.

Douglas Ferguson (20:39):
Yeah, that echoes true. I want to come back to the journey we’re talking about there. At Untapped Innovation, you saw design embedded in R&D and fueled by frameworks like the Hero’s Journey. How did that experience shape your view of design as facilitation?

Marco Monterzino (20:54):
So yeah, I would say one thing that I came across when working with Untapped was I would label it as a wealth of experience. They had a huge amount of experience, they’d been working with lots of large organizations, companies, multinational companies. One of the methodologies we were using that I encountered was the Hero’s Journey. Because ultimately, one of these human-centered design 101 methodologies is you put the user at the center and you design the whole narrative of whatever you’re innovating upon around it. So that was super, super powerful.

(21:35):
Just a quick example, a quick memory, anecdote. I was brought in to work with a manufacturer of a product that has been … Well, I’ll just say it. I was brought in to work on a tobacco harm reduction project with a large organization that needed to address the fact that their products were harming people. So I remember how having that perspective that put the user at the center, and also having that perspective as a designer to think about the user as a person who is engaging in rituals, especially when it comes to consuming drinks or having other experiences. That became the core aspect of how we generated ideas. So we generated ideas about how we can reduce harm by making the experience of, for instance consuming tobacco, while physically less harmful, but also a lot more about the ritual. A lot more about the quality of the experience, rather than just the consumption and going through packets of cigarettes. So that was powerful.

Douglas Ferguson (22:59):
Yeah, that reminds me of some advice I’ve heard in the past about quitting cigarettes and how important it is to not leave the rituals behind. A lot of times, people smoke when they’re having coffee. A lot of times people will take their smokes breaks. That will be the only time they go outside and take a break from work. There’s some people that even argue it’s the deep breathing that is the relaxing part because nicotine’s a stimulant, it actually raises the blood pressure. So if there’s any argument to it feeling relaxing or stress relieving, it’s the deep breathing that you’re doing when you’re inhaling deeply and exhaling, which people don’t normally do. So this group encouraged folks to, “Hey, keep your coffee ritual. Keep your afternoon and mid-morning breaks. Go outside and breathe.”

(23:47):
I find that interesting reminder of that story while listening to you around designing around those rituals. It kind of comes back to what we were talking about earlier with the lighters and the other human exchanges.

Marco Monterzino (23:59):
Yeah. Look, we could connect this with also the practice of seeing workshops as gatherings. For me, it’s the same matter, or it was the same transition. Because why should we suddenly treat a workshop as a situation where there’s one person talking at a group, and there is no structure, and there is no ritual to it. It doesn’t feel like something that belongs to our culture, something that belongs to our human nature.

(24:35):
When you say if we look at it as a gathering, wow. We start thinking about a big circle of people with a blazing fire in the middle. It can become something I think quite natural and quite … There’s a lot of references from our culture itself. So when you are running a workshop, you should think about how the most important thing is the relational quality of it, especially at the beginning. Clarifying purpose of course, keeping things on track, but also making sure that people connect because that’s why you’re bringing them together. And it’s not about getting people through as many design thinking exercises as possible to get to an outcome that is designed by committee. But rather, getting people excited about being together. Able to give shape, to contribute with their logs to the big fire, and to make it bigger and better, and make it memorable.

(25:30):
So yeah, I think making experiences whatever they are human is one of the key learnings of human-centered design, and at least one of those that I really keep close to my heart.

Douglas Ferguson (25:40):
Love that. And also, in your work you’ve described facilitation as “helping organizations access their own resilience.” Could you share an example where you saw that resilience come alive in a powerful way?

Marco Monterzino (25:53):
Right. So this one is covered by a certain amount of confidentiality, but I think I want to share, I would say, the essence of it. Which is there’s been, due to geopolitical changes on the landscape, there’s been a need for certain technologies to be employed in the defense sector. And a lot of innovation, because we’ve gone through a lot of periods of extensive peace which has been I think something we took for granted. And unfortunately, we’re looking at a picture that is a lot less clear and a lot less certain as we speak.

(26:32):
But anyway, these companies were required to help their countries to be resilient in a time where there was disruption. Or these companies themselves were going through a change of purpose that was potentially going to push away a number of their workforce. Or these companies were experiencing a disruption in how they saw themselves and that takes a lot of intentional structure. You can’t do those sort of things just organically. You can, but it takes longer, it’s a lot riskier, and you might risk losing a lot of your people along the way.

(27:17):
Well, if you do it in a very structured way, in a very fair way, in a very transparent way, in a very intentional way, in a way that is designed, then you have basically the equivalent of a well-operating device. You’re basically taking charge of that process. And I think facilitation does that brilliantly because it comes into a place where there is need to be able to spring back to shape after disruption, and I’m giving this example, but it could be other examples. Even simply an organization needing to change management. So there’s a new CEO and maybe with the CEO, a whole new group of executives come into the organization. I’ve been involved in a couple of these larger structures. That’s a huge disruption that then poses the question how do we then connect with the workforce? And how do we enable the workforce to be taken on to a journey?

(28:21):
Because sometimes I’m asked, “Marco, can you help us roll out a new strategy?” And of course what I hear is, “Can you help us enable the work to themselves lead parts of their strategy and meet those goals one-by-one?” And that’s what we do basically, and I think that’s where I see facilitation being, let’s say, a skill or a role or a responsibility that is conducive to resilience. Because it makes disruptions, it turns disruptions into fuel, rather than into things that stop your motion and stop your progress. You take the disruption as an opportunity to redesign, as an opportunity to come up with new solutions, and as an opportunity to refresh. And yeah, facilitation can definitely do that.

Douglas Ferguson (29:11):
Yeah. It’s sort of reframing. Because what might seem like a disruption, or if you look at it through the lens of a disruption is something that is destructive versus looking at disruption as something that is as signal, as a force. But how can we harness that force and utilize it? Because it is showing that people are passionate and there’s energy there. So if we’re able to harness it, if we’re able to redirect it in ways that help us in pursuit of our goal, wow, that’s super effective.

Marco Monterzino (29:42):
Yeah. The notion of resilience has gone through phases. It’s been a buzzword during the big eras of disruption around COVID and I think people grew tired of it. And now I think there it’s come back up with new disruptions and new challenges. I can see that it’s a word that attracts a lot more interest now and I’m glad to see that. But I think there’s been a big argument that resilience is not enough. So what if resilience is not the point?

(30:14):
I can’t remember what was the author, maybe someone will be able to let us know who was the author of this piece of writing. But there was a book that described the 2.0 version of resilience is being this anti-fragility, the anti-fragile type of system. And I don’t like the word itself because I find it a bit difficult to pronounce, it’s a bit long, where resilience to me flows nicely. But I think when I think of resilience, I think of resilience as something that is really fed by challenge. So at the end of the day, it’s something that is anti-fragile. It’s really fueled by all of the challenges that we have coming towards us.

Douglas Ferguson (30:57):
Are you think about Nassim Taleb’s book?

Marco Monterzino (30:59):
That’s the one.

Douglas Ferguson (31:00):
Yeah, great read. And yeah, that word can be a little bit challenging for folks, but I think that might have been its goal. Let’s put something out there that catches people’s attention.

Marco Monterzino (31:12):
I think so. Yeah, definitely.

Douglas Ferguson (31:14):
Well, let’s look ahead. You’re starting to bridge facilitation and education. Thinking about lecturing and other pursuits that are in that world of academia, what excites you most about teaching as a natural extension of facilitation?

Marco Monterzino (31:28):
So the two worlds are very intertwined, aren’t they? Teaching and facilitating. Now that I’ve discovered what facilitation is, which is this soft skill, the mother of all soft skills, I understand or I see teaching in a completely new light. I realize that people who are teaching are facilitating a gathering, a class is a gathering. There is a purpose, which is let’s learn about that subject, that topic, and by the end of the session we will be at the end of that chapter or whatever it might be. So I think there’s a quality which is a natural extension of the more commercial facilitation practice.

(32:11):
And then the other aspect is I have been myself asked a number of times, “Marco, can you help us train our own people so that we can empower our workforce with human-centered design, with collaboration skills, with workshop design, with facilitation?” And that I think took that part of my brain or gave me an opportunity to grow into a new aspect of my practice. Which is to be able to not only perform the craft of facilitation, but also being able to communicate it and to be able to take other people, a journey where you have to make the right space for learning, you have to create the right conversations among peers so that learning can happen. You have to stand back and really not be at the front of the room as much. You’re there enabling this mysterious phenomenon, which is how do people learn stuff.

(33:19):
But yeah, it’s something that I’ve come across as a request, an ask. People ask me, “Can you do that for us?” And I’m like, “Yes, let’s do some experiential learning.” Which is basically taking people through the experience. And then I came across you guys, and you talk about practice, practice playgrounds, which is a brilliant way to experience methodologies and to basically understand that like playing an instrument really well, like finger-picking on a guitar. You might be born with it, but you don’t have to be born with it. You can just spend many, many hours every week practicing, practicing, practicing, and then you get the hang of it. And then you get better, and better, and better. And facilitation is the same, learning these kind of skills is the same. I find it exciting to hold space for that sort of thing because find it made it useful for me, and so I believe it can be useful to others.

Douglas Ferguson (34:15):
And if you look a few years down the road, how do you hope your work, whether in consulting, education or facilitation will contribute to building more resilient organizations and communities?

Marco Monterzino (34:25):
If I blur my eyes and I try to see beyond the horizon, I think I see myself doing a blend of the two worlds. I think that’s where I might be able to keep myself fresh. And also, learn, pick up new things and cross-pollinate. So I think my ambition is to continue on this journey that I’m on. I’m not keen to, let’s say change everything, but I’m keen to continue making small changes as I go forward. And I think these two spaces, the learning and the consulting space to me, there’s a tradition. Lots of designers do that, lots of people in the consulting space also teach, and I see the point. And I think that’s a good ambition to work towards.

Douglas Ferguson (35:17):
And as we come to a close today, I’d love to invite you to leave our listeners with a final thought.

Marco Monterzino (35:22):
Okay. So my final thought for the listeners is as an invite as much as a small challenge. I invite you all to craft your own equanimity hack, something that you can tap into when you might lose your confidence. Because as you know because you are maybe already working as a facilitator or maybe it’s something you will discover as you start working as a facilitator, being able to keep that wind in your sails no matter what is crucial in this practice. So craft yourself a little hack to tap into your equanimity and rekindle your confidence. That’s my final thought.

Douglas Ferguson (36:12):
So important. Thanks for coming on the show, Marco. It’s been great chatting.

Marco Monterzino (36:16):
Thank you, Douglas, for having me. It was lovely.

Douglas Ferguson (36:18):
Thanks for joining me for another episode of the Facilitation Lab Podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review, and be sure to subscribe and receive updates when new episodes are released. We love listener tales and invite you to share your facilitation stories. Send them to us on LinkedIn or via email. If you want to know more, head over to our blog where I post weekly articles and resources about facilitation, team dynamics and collaboration, voltagecontrol.com.