A conversation with Reagan Pugh, Professional Speaker & Facilitator.

“What I learned when I shifted from acting to consensus building and facilitating is, you’ve got to let go of the idea that people are there for you and you’ve got to let go of the idea that you’re the most important person in the room, that the show’s about you, but there’s still a similarity around what it means to steward the emotions of the room. And I still carry that from the theater days.  And I believe that a good facilitator is acutely aware of the energy in the room and is constantly tweaking their approach to make sure that they’re taking care of the people that are there.” –Reagan Pugh

In this episode of Control the Room, I had the pleasure of speaking with Reagan Pugh about his extensive experience facilitating groups, stewarding the emotions of the room, and consensus-building.  He shares how his background in theater has influenced his current work. We then discuss the importance of getting your mind right, visualizing, and self-awareness before working with groups. Listen in to learn about the neuroscience of presencing and being aware of the current state.

Show Highlights

[1:30] How Reagan Got His Start Facilitating Groups Of People

[6:45] How To Dial In Emotional Frequency

[14:45] How To Prepare For A Session

[24:30] Modeling How To Be Human In A Session

[30:30] The Power Of Breath

Reagan on LinkedIn 

Reagan on Twitter & IG @reaganpugh 

Reagan on Facebook 

About the Guest

Reagan Pugh’s speeches and workshops guide attendees toward gratitude, healthy mindsets, and purposeful action, so they can recommit to their work and lives with excitement. He’s traveled the world serving organizations like Facebook, Cardinal Health, the US Air Force, Meals on Wheels, the National Future Farmers of America Organization, and the American Red Cross. He is a TEDx speaker, frequent podcast guest, and secretly publishes poetry under a pen name (ask him about this). His first book about helping highly emotional people get unstuck will be released in 2022. You can learn more at reaganpugh.com.

About Voltage Control

Voltage Control is a change agency that helps enterprises sustain innovation and teams work better together with custom-designed meetings and workshops, both in-person and virtual. Our master facilitators offer trusted guidance and custom coaching to companies who want to transform ineffective meetings, reignite stalled projects, and cut through assumptions. Based in Austin, Voltage Control designs and leads public and private workshops that range from small meetings to large conference-style gatherings.

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Full Transcript

Douglas:  Welcome to the Control The Room podcast, the series devoted to the exploration of meeting culture and uncovering cures for the common meeting. Some meetings have tight control and others are loose. To control the room means achieving outcomes while striking a balance between imposing and removing structure, asserting and distributing power, leaning in and leaning out, all in the service of having a truly magical meeting.

Thanks for listening. If you’d like to join us live for a session sometime you can join our weekly Control The Room facilitation lab. It’s a free event to meet fellow facilitators and explore new techniques so you can apply the things you learn in the podcast in real-time with other facilitators. Sign up today at voltagecontrol.com/facilitation-lab.

If you’d like to learn more about my new book Magical Meetings, you can download the Magical Meetings Quick Start Guide, a free PDF reference with some of the most important pieces of advice from the book. Download a copy today at voltagecontrol.com/magical-meetings-quick-guide.

Today, I’m with Reagan Pugh, a keynote speaker, facilitator, and writer who creates experiences for individuals and teams to practice gratitude, develop healthy mindsets, and take purposeful action. His first book will be out in 2022. It’s about helping highly emotional people get unstuck and take action.

Welcome to the show, Reagan.

Reagan:  I’m honored To be here, Douglas.

Douglas:  So good to have you, Reagan. Always enjoy our conversations and am excited to actually record this one.

Reagan:  Yeah, brother.

Douglas:  So let’s start off in typical Control The Room fashion and hear a little bit about how you got your start. How did you begin to even get interested in this work of exploring people’s emotional states and helping them get unstuck?

Reagan:  I think one has to answer that question with this response: By being an incredibly emotional person myself, growing up, I was a journaler and I was a feeler and I was a romantic and I did theater and I wanted to be on stage and I was fascinated by what it took to move a group of people. And I think it started out with wanting to be an actor, but I abandoned that to follow a girl to college and got involved in student government and realized that the same things that I loved about acting were existing in student government and getting consensus and moving people toward a vision.

And then after that, I taught high school for a few years and then taught college for a few years, and then got into consulting. And there’s this through-line of realizing that there’s an emotional frequency in any group of people, and if you can tap into that, man, you can guide people to do some pretty important things.

Douglas: It’s not uncommon to have facilitators come on the show and find out that there’s a theater background.

Reagan:  Oh, yeah.

Douglas:  Government not so much. And maybe you’re the first person that told me that government is theater with a straight face.

Reagan:  Didn’t even mean to.

Douglas:  But let’s talk about your theater background. How important do you think that has been in the formation of what you do now?

Reagan:  Oh, man. It’s something really special to be in front of a group of people and know that they’re really invested in where you’re taking them, and I just became … And I’m a pastor’s kid two generations deep. And so from all angles, there’s this performative inspirational thread that has run through my story.

And I think the thing that I have to realize is I shifted from acting to consensus building and facilitating is, you’ve got to let go of the idea that people are there for you and you’ve got to let go of the idea that you’re the most important person in the room, that the show’s about you, but there’s still a similarity around what it means to steward the emotions of the room. And I still carry that from the theater days.

And I believe that a good facilitator is acutely aware of the energy in the room and is constantly tweaking their approach to make sure that they’re taking care of the people that are there.

Douglas:  Yeah, it’s interesting because I think we spoke about this in the past and we share this belief that there’s a performative aspect to facilitation. Certainly, you’re getting up in front of the room quite often or in front of the Zoom or what have you. And I like your point about the fact that it’s not about the attention being on us and we’re not necessarily the star of the show because that attitude’s not going to … Well, it’s certainly not going to be the best attitude to have the best interest of our participants in mind.

I really thought your points around the fact that it still is performative, but it’s almost more that we’re in the support role where we can tee up others to … And when I think about various forms of theater or acting, there’s a lot of similarity in some roles in those cases around these support roles?

Reagan:  Yeah, particularly in improv, and I know you and I share a big love of improv and the way that that connects with facilitation. And in improv all of the languages around endowing your stage partner with gifts and making … And your own … Your improv troop is … You’re only as good as the person that you’re working with. And it’s a really selfless form of theater that I believe is more directly connected to what good facilitation looks like because there’s no ego. And there’s a belief that the best thing that could happen on stage is the thing that’s going to come from the group, not from one person.

Douglas:  So you said something a moment ago that I wanted to come back to, and that was this notion of an emotional frequency and this notion that a group has an emotional frequency and tapping into that.

So I’d love to hear a little bit more about that because it’s a fascinating concept and I haven’t necessarily heard it coined in exactly that way before, but it really resonates with me. So I want to hear your thoughts a little more.

Reagan:  When you walk into a room to start a session, you can sense where people are at and you can sense if people are posturing and trying to look important or if there’s preexisting relationships in the room or if people are here against their will because it’s a training or if they’ve shown up because this thing that you’re putting on is the thing they feel they need in their life.

And my favorite thing to do before a session is to just go around and sit on the corner of a table and talk to people to figure out where they’re at and why they’re in the room. And then that guides on the spot what warm-up or opener or icebreaker is going to happen. And I do think about it like a frequency. What do we need to dial in here? Is there already a negative tone throughout the room? Okay, what do we … Let’s throw down some gratitude stuff.

Or does it seem like everyone’s here and they’re really excited but, my goodness, the energy might take us off course? What kind of thing do we need to do to zero in the energy and get people focused a little bit?

But that’s the first thing that I sense when I start working with a group, and I really think that helps, particularly starting, when you’re starting a session.

Douglas:  That’s really fascinating. It reminds me of the times when you walk into a room and you can just feel something. And it could be good, it could be bad, it could be neutral, it could be sideways, it could be angular.

But sometimes the word “Tension” might be appropriate, right? And often I think junior facilitators or even junior … Or I would say anybody that’s not super on the emotional maturity curve, will walk into that space and get immediately hijacked.

Reagan:  Why do they get hijacked?

Douglas:  I think it’s just because if we’re not coming in aware that there’s, to use your word, a “frequency” to tune into, then we just come in and the frequency tunes us.

Reagan:  It’s good.

Douglas:  Right? So if we’re not paying attention to it, we just become it. So if things are frenetic and we walk into that frenetic space, we become frenetic, unless we’re in observation mode and then we go, “Oh, things are frenetic.”

Reagan:  Yeah. Okay. Okay. I love this. I love jumping into the mode of the observer because if we’re not doing that, to follow your line of thinking, it’s easy to believe that the emotional frequency of a room if we’re unconscious, is about us. And I think particularly if you’re a junior facilitator and you’re rolling into a room, you’re, “Oh, man, the way that they’re feeling has something to do with their perception of me.” And then I’m going to get in my head. And before I’ve even started, I’ve played all kinds of calculus in my brain about how I’m going to win them over or why they don’t … Or how this is going to go the wrong way without stopping and pausing and realizing that these people have been here long before me, interacting with one another long before me, this has nothing to do with me. Now it’s time for me to do the work.

Douglas:  And also what might appear as dysfunction to an untrained eye and maybe an untuned eye, because my eye might be trained because I’ve observed a lot of teams in a lot of rooms, but not this team. What’s going on? This is a Monday. Is this some crazy thing they do on Mondays? But they’re totally jiving and it’s all good.

But if I just let that hijack me, to your point, I might start running calculus and it might send me down a bad spiral and it’s not a good place to be.

Reagan:  No, it’s not. That’s a really thoughtful point. Trevor Bain and I, we ran a session one time around teams. Teams have three things that are unique to them: They have rituals, they have celebrations and they have their jam language, the way that they talk with each other, or the way that they interact with each other. And if you’re not aware of those and if you’re not sensitive to that, you could think that they’re insulting each other or arguing, but that could just be the way that they are.

And so I think, to sum it up, the thing that we have to really be careful of, it’s just this self-importance when entering into a room and failing to enter the room with humility and curiosity and being in observation mode, like you said.

Douglas:  This really transitions nicely into something we were talking about in the pre-show chat, which was this notion of inner work and how important it is. And to use your words, it was “Getting the mind right,” so that you can be in service, and that’s just really touching.

And so I’d love to hear a little bit more about that because I think it’s a little more nuanced than just showing up in observation mode, but this is preparing our minds for being just ready, much less like what’s happening in the room.

Reagan:  I think we can really get in our own ways when we look to whatever work it is that we’re doing to fill some affirmational hole that we need. And so when I’m talking about the book that I’m writing and we started talking about helping highly emotional people, I’ve got a particular need for affirmation based on the personality that I have that can really hijack the way that I show up in a room.

If I don’t stop before I go in, spend some time sitting in a chair and meditating and realizing that I already have everything that I need to be whole, so that I can then walk into a room and give a gift instead of trying to take something from them.

A lot of times I think you see junior facilitators looking for some affirmation as a part of the process, as opposed to realizing that the greatest job you could ever do would end with no one wanting to talk with you and everyone wanting to keep talking to each other because you did such a great job at connecting them with one another.

In order to do that, though, we have to become no one. In order to do that, though, we have to do whatever we need to do internally to be at peace with the fact that we become nothing. A good facilitator becomes nothing. A good facilitator empties themselves and just becomes a container for the meeting to happen.

I don’t know what that practice looks like for everybody, but I do know that starting with some self-awareness around what is the thing that you find yourself needing most from people? And be wary of how you enter into a room to facilitate with that need. Is it affirmation that you’re looking for? Are you looking for people to challenge you? Do you enjoy conflict? Do you enjoy someone banging their head against you for ideas? And realize that the facilitation room and when you’re doing your work is not the place for us to go and get things that we need personally. We need to learn to give those to ourselves first.

Douglas:  And this ties in with another concept we were talking about around visualizing yourself in the space, in the moment, projecting the capability before going into the space and trying it out because … And it really spoke to me because we often talk about this idea that practice makes practice. And if you want to get good at facilitation, you’ve got to get the reps in and you’ve got to just build the confidence over time of doing it and learning, and maybe showing up and expecting that affirmation, and then realizing that that’s not a good way to do things and then learning to approach it in a different way.

And so, I guess, I’m curious to hear how you might recommend that folks approach this visualization and how that can be a way of building maybe situational awareness and confidence without … Maybe with less opportunities to actually show up in a real situation.

Reagan:  Man, one of the most powerful things that I’ve done in my personal development in the last several years has been starting to practice visualization. And this isn’t new. Michael Jordan talked about seeing himself shooting free throws.

But, man, the way that someone practices this with facilitation, and this is what I’ve been doing all year, is sitting down in the chair, closing my eyes, and envision myself preparing for a session that I’m to facilitate. And I see myself in third person putting in the extra effort to make sure that I’m creating an agenda that’s inclusive of everyone, that’s differentiated to different learning styles, and that I’m approaching the gathering with empathy as I’m thinking about the way that I’m designing it.

And then I see myself walking into the room and being curious and not making assumptions. And then this is where it gets interesting. I envision it going really well and I envision all of the things that I might do that I know are best practices and I feel what it feels like to do those really well.

But the interesting one is, and then I envision things going poorly. I’m talking about crash and burn. I make the worst mistake of all time. And I think about all of the anxieties that I might have and all the mistakes that I might make. I watch them happen. I feel the embarrassment that I imagine feeling. And then I do as good of a job as I can to finish. Or I see myself reminding myself that, “This is just one day. You’ll move on.” I imagine people in the audience having compassion on me and urging me to get back to the work.

And I think the power of this is we’re not just thinking about positive things and then we’ll manifest all of the great things in our lives. We’re also imagining what happens when things go wrong because things do go wrong. And you imagine yourself recovering from it with grace and you imagine people being more benevolent than you thought that they would be.

So either way, you knock it out of the park or you don’t. You’ve seen it before, and since you’ve seen it before and you’ve been there before in your mind’s eye, it’s a lot easier for you to connect those dots in your future.

Douglas:  I think the unique thing for me there because I’ve definitely heard the project the positive, which we maybe hear a little too much of because if it’s all positive then where’s the balance? And then I’ve heard the projected negative that I think that’s important to balance it.

The thing I found unique and really fascinating is the grace and benevolence. How do I practice coming out of that negative with some grace? And then also practice realization that people can be benevolent and supportive. And, gosh, if we come into that situation expecting people to be that way, how do you think they might be?

Reagan:  Dude, you discover what you’re looking for. I was just facilitating with a group today and they were saying, “What happens when you have the people in the group that are rolling their eyes during this certain warmup activity?” And I said, “Let’s squash this right now. Let’s not imagine that you’re going to have people in your group rolling their eyes necessarily. Let’s imagine that they’re benevolent and that they’re showing up and that they want to learn and that they’re interested in what you have to say and they’re rooting for you.”

It’s fascinating to me how easy we believe that people in an audience that we’re working with are against us when, in reality … Have you ever been in an audience, Douglas, where you’ve thought, “I just hope this facilitator blows it.” Or don’t you hope that they’re going to create an experience that’s enjoyable for you to be a part of?

Douglas:  Whenever I have been in an audience watching someone give a talk, and even if I’m not enjoying the talk and I’m, “What is this person all about? They don’t seem like my kind of people.” And then they really start to crash and burn where it’s just awkward, and you’re just feeling, “Ooh, this is like a Curb Your Enthusiasm moment.”

And what you’re thinking to yourself is, “I hope they just get this thing back on track,” because even though I wasn’t enjoying it, at least it wasn’t a train wreck like it is now. So I’m still … Even though I didn’t particularly like them, I was still rooting for them to get back on track, right?

Reagan:  Totally. Totally. Because you’re rooting for them. I like that.

Douglas:  So that’s good. I think that’s a really nice framing, whether it’s we’re projecting ahead of time for something we’re doing or even just thinking about this whole how do we deal with the naysayers because it’s … I mean, how often does it really happen and what are they really nays saying?

Douglas:  The other thing I have to remind people of, and I’d love to get your take on this, Reagan, is most often the rolling the eyes and the naysaying has to do with some inner conflict they’re having that has nothing to do with what I’m doing, how I’m showing up. Has everything to do with something they’re personally dealing with or some weird dynamic on the team.

Reagan:  Absolutely. The most important thing that we have to remember is, basically, everything is not about us. Nothing is about us. No one’s thinking about us. No one’s going to go home at dinner the night and talk about us. No one’s concerned about our aptitude as much as we are.

And I think that the level of growth beyond that is realizing that if you do have a naysayer, if you do have someone that’s just spewing negativity, man, in some way or another, they’re doing that because they believe that that’s what they need to do to survive right now. And so they’re protecting something or they’re compensating for something. And if that’s the state that they believe they need to be in and publicly show to other people, there must be some deep pain going on. And I hope that we could have some compassion there, as opposed to being angry at them for not giving us compliments.

Douglas:  It comes back to that affirmation piece. It’s, why are we there? Are we there to really help them through whatever their struggle is? Or are we really there in hopes that they really liked that warmup or that icebreaker?

Reagan:  Exactly, man. And this line that I used earlier is one that I stole from our friend, Stephen Tomlinson, around the idea that you know you’ve done a great job when afterward they’re not lining up to talk to you. They’re continuing to deepen relationships with one another. It’s not about us.

Douglas:  That’s beautiful. Not necessarily great for biz, but really great for the work in the room.

Reagan:  It’s great for the work in the room. That’s right.

Douglas:  So I want to talk about this inner work again, really. I’m going to shift back to that because it’s so important, and I love that you’ve spent so much time drilling into it. And you talked a little bit about this need to feel confident in the work and visualize it. And you also talked in the pre-show chat a bit about, “Would I want to do this?” Or my word is, I talk about it being “authentic.” Do I feel it’s true to myself?

And I’d love to hear a little bit more about that. And we got a fun little paradox to unravel here-

Reagan:  Okay.

Douglas:  … in second, too, but I want to hear a little bit more about what that means for you? How it shows up around … Or even what advice you might have for listeners around tapping into this, “Would I want to do this?”

Reagan:  There’s a really funny thing that happens and I learned this when I was teaching 10th grade English. There’s a really funny thing that happens when you move from experiencing a lesson plan or a workshop or something and you begin designing it. For some reason, it’s like we lose our minds and we start to design things that we would never want to experience ourselves. We just get so obsessed with having something to fill the time because our greatest fear is not filling the time and not having things to keep people busy because we’re worried about what might happen in silence? What might happen in the in-between moments? So we build some crappy agenda full of activities that don’t matter so at least we fill the time. And all along the way while we’re worried about filling the time, what we do is we forget about what the people really need.

And as we’re doing our own inner work so that we can help other people do their inner work, it is really important to practice empathy and consider, “Would I want to sit through this? Would they … Does someone … Is this really the right way to guide someone through this activity or lead someone to this realization?”

Now, it’s going to require two things: It’s going to require more work to prepare activities that are more thoughtful and meaningful, and it’s going to require more courage to show up and deliver those activities.

But, my goodness, are we in this business to do something powerful with a group of people or not? I believe that’s what great facilitators do.

Douglas:  Incredible. And so I want to talk a little bit now about something else you mentioned, which is this notion of it can often be difficult or create moments of tension for facilitators when they’re afraid to take risks.

So if there’s something that maybe that’s slightly outside of their comfort zone, maybe there’s a method or an activity or something where they’re … Maybe that’s the thing they need to start exploring and trying, but they’re afraid to do it and in this need to do that. And why is that so important?

Reagan:  I’ve got a friend named Spud, Spud Marshall who’s just a fantastic facilitator. And one of the things that I learned most about him anytime we collaborate on an event together, is there’s always at least one thing that might not work that he decides to do. And it’s normally really risky and bold but the potential payoff could be huge. And I’ve watched him crash and burn trying something that he thought would really be meaningful for a group of people. And I’ve also watched him recover beautifully from that same experience.

I think, as facilitators, we can’t get so precious with the activities we’re doing and how perfect they are because, as a facilitator, I really think we’re not in the business of modeling perfection to people. If we’re really being honest, the work of being a facilitator is getting up and modeling what it means to be human and creating a real experience.

So sometimes the greatest gift you can give an audience as a facilitator is to, with an honest heart, try something that you’re excited about trying, that you believe would potentially add value to this group of people and do it with courage because it’s going to help you grow and it might be meaningful for them.

And if it doesn’t work, I think sometimes the best moments that endear an audience or a group to a facilitator is when the facilitator honestly says, “That didn’t work. And, honestly, I’m a little embarrassed right now, but I need you to know when I worked that out in my head a week ago, I thought it was going to guide us to this beautiful place because that’s what I want for us.” Show me an audience that’s going to go and crucify that facilitator. I don’t think they exist.

So there’s this beautiful relationship that exists when, as facilitators, we stop pursuing perfection and we start trying to model what it looks like to be human because when we can do that, we give permission for the people in the group to do the same.

Douglas:  That’s really, really nice. And it makes me think about this thing that I’ve seen some facilitators do. They like to make a mistake early on intentionally just to show that humility-

Reagan:  Beautiful.

Douglas:  … and imperfection. It seems maybe a little manipulative, but I think it’s a nice little forced humility maybe.

Reagan:  I don’t find it manipulative, man. I think that the intention is real. And I think that the intention is to get us to the point where we’re connecting more deeply. I like that.

Douglas:  So I wanted to get your thoughts here on this paradox around needing to be authentic and doing what you feel you’d want to do or what you would enjoy or what feels right, but while, at the same time, not being afraid to take risks. So something that might seem risky might also seem not right.

And so what’s some advice to facilitators out there that are now thinking, “Oh, well, I need to be true to myself, but I also need to push myself out of the comfort zone and take risks.” How do people hold both at the same time?

Reagan:  Joseph Campbell has a really great quote about doing things that we’re afraid of. It says, “In the cave, you fear to enter lies the treasure you seek.” And as a facilitator who’s considering whether or not I want to try something that might be risky and questioning their own motivation, Douglas, as you put it, where, “Is this really a thing that I’m trying to do so I grow? Or is this me just posing, trying to be someone that I’m not?” Do I have that paradox correct there?

Douglas:  Yeah.

Reagan:  So I think when we’re afraid of doing something when we’re genuinely afraid of it because we’re afraid it might not work, that’s probably the sign of the thing that we should run toward. I believe that that’s going to be the best indicator for where your growth as a facilitator falls.

When we start sniffing comparison, I think that’s whenever we need to become wary about the other, which is me trying to copy something that someone else has done that they seem to get a really great reaction from. Or me trying to impress a certain group of people by trying this thing that someone does that I know that they like.

One is completely internal. And I don’t know if this is going to sync up, but one is completely internal and it is your private conversation with yourself of, “This is scary to me and I’m afraid this might not work.” I think that’s a really true feeling and that’s the calling to move forward.

The other one is external. The other one involves your comparison to other people and you watching what brand someone else might have and trying to emulate it. And I think that’s the way that you can see the difference between the two.

Douglas:  That’s a really nice way to think about that. And specifically around, “Is my inner self too afraid to take the next step,” versus externalizing something that is not really me. That’s cool.

So I wanted to maybe start to shift gears a little bit into thinking about if we were to apply all of this, what becomes possible in the future if more people started to behave and work and collaborate and commune and relate in these ways, what will change in the world?

And before, as we make that transition, you mentioned something in the pre-show chat that I thought was really, really quite special. And it’s something that it sounds like you’re starting to do more recently, which is embodied in this notion of just take taking care of the people. But the specific example you gave was around pausing to take a breath and just checking in on what’s going right. And I think that really is, to me, such a beautiful little moment that punctuates this transition.

If more people started to do those types of things, what does it create for the world?

Reagan:  Phew. That’s beautiful. I know you’ve had Solomon Masala on your podcast. So if you’re listening, you need to go listen to him, friends, because I’ve learned so much from him about the power of breath and about the power of focusing on who we are being versus what we are doing.

So oftentimes, Douglas, to reference the breath that you were talking about, I’ll find that after a break, or if we’re in the middle of working through something really difficult and, man, we’re at loggerheads, pausing and saying, “Okay, relax your shoulders, close your eyes with me.” And saying, “Look, this is just woo-woos. We’re going to get … We’re not going to hold hands. We’re not going to do anything. This is neuroscience. Let’s pause for a moment and let’s take a few deep breaths together and let’s visualize one thing that’s going right in our life right now because we know that whenever we focus on abundance and not lack when we think even of one small thing that’s going right like I’ve got leftover tacos in the fridge that I can’t wait to eat for dinner,” then what that does is that opens up our synapsis. That makes us more interested in collaboration, more willing to discuss ideas, and more open to things that we might not have been open to before. And, dude, we all need to be doing that throughout our days anyway.

And so, as a facilitator, our job is not necessarily to be liked. It’s to do what is good for the group. And so I think sometimes it’s important for us to give folks a little bit of a dose of a breath and a re-center. And if we can do that, if we can do something like that, and if we can get people in the habit of being aware of their feelings and aware of their present state and we can create an overall more aware population of people who are curious about why they’re feeling the way they’re feeling and who have tools to understand that, “If I can focus on what I’m grateful for, I can completely shift my perspective toward other people, toward myself, toward my work,” I think that that’s the whole reason we set out to do this work of facilitation in the first place because I think that we can then create healthier organizations who do good for our communities and for the world.

Douglas:  I couldn’t agree more, Reagan. The idea that facilitation can be the force multiplier to help all those that are doing amazing work in the world is what keeps me going every day. There’s so many important causes and so many important needs and so much great work that’s happening in the world and if we can help those people be more effective, gosh, that seems like good work done. So I think we share that vision in common and I love the words.

So had to take a pause there because it really… struck me. It’s really, really great.

So I want to just wrap up here by giving you an opportunity to leave our listeners with a final thought.

Reagan:  The most important thing for me to keep in mind is I’m facilitating that’s kept me afloat, even when I’m really doubting myself, is this idea of enough. This idea of enough. And it applies to two scenarios: One, as a facilitator, we must believe with 100% certainty that the answers to the group that we’re working with’s greatest challenges are already present within the group. That these people in the room are enough. They have enough wisdom, enough tools, and enough experiences for us to guide them towards some answer, towards some realization.

And in order to do that, we must also believe that we are enough. I must walk into a room and believe that I have everything that I need to connect with these people. No magic tool, no magic framework, no magic system is going to change that. It’s important to have all kinds of tools and disciplines in our tool belt, but beneath all of that, this comes back to that inner work, Douglas, that I think we all have to do, is a realization that, “I am enough,” and if I believe that I have everything I need, then we can do some real work together.

Douglas:  I love that. It reminds me of Joseph Heller and this conversation with Kurt Vonnegut around, “I have something he’ll never have: Enough.”

So with that, Reagan, it’s been a great conversation, and I invite the listeners to check out your book. I know it’s not out at the time of this recording and probably not by the time this gets released, but if you’re hearing this and you’re interested, definitely pay attention on socials. We’re going to be amplifying on our socials when it comes out and we’ll update the show notes when it comes out. So if you’re listening later, definitely check out show notes. The link to the book will probably be there.

I guess, Reagan, if someone is trying to find you or the book, I’m sure they go to Amazon and search on Reagan Pugh. But is there some other place where they can locate you or find out more about the book as time progresses?

Reagan:  Yeah, man, two places that I’m having the most fun doing work right now is Instagram on @reaganpugh, posting videos about thoughts like this. I’m enjoying that video medium a little more these days. And then I still write on Medium and would love to continue the conversation there. I’m @reaganpugh on Medium. Whereas the book release gets closer, I’m going to start dropping chapters and teasing that out. So you can join me on Instagram and Medium @reaganpugh.

Douglas:  Excellent. Well, highly recommend everyone go do that. And if you don’t get a chance, definitely check out the show notes or our social. We’re going to be amplifying it when it comes out. And, Reagan, make sure to share it with us so we can do that.

And really fun chatting today, Reagan. Looking forward to seeing you soon.

Reagan:  Thank you, brother.

Douglas:  Thanks for joining me for another episode of Control The Room. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released.

If you want more head over to our blog, where I post weekly articles and resources about working better together, voltagecontrol.com.